Sun Rise Tournament (SRT) [Road to APEX]

[Frio]

Ayuha, do you still have room for housing?

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

1. Too much taunting is prohibited
Is this a rule against excessive trash talk or about actual in game taunting? If its the latter, then its just ********.

Of course a sonic main would say this

 

[xDD-Master]

This needs a sticky btw!

 

[B_AWAL]

All we Sonic mains wanna do is just remind you how much faster we are than you lol

 

[Ayuha]

>> Frio
We have been searching for a housing place in Sma-Com, but what we have now is

Karaage house : 7 ~ 14
Kazuke house : 7~14
Daiki house : 8 ~
Ayuha house : 9? ~

if you want to ask any house to stay, please feel free to ask

 

[BlueXenon]

I think this thread should be in the upcoming tournaments thing on the top.

 

[Kuraudo]

Agreed. Where the duck is the hype for this?! Does nobody give a ****? I mean I know most of the hype is probably in Japan but some of our really good players are going too. Like WTF.

 

[OkamiBW]

Looking like I should be able to go to this.

Do I have to pre-register? And where?

 

[Keitaro]

I think there is a lot of hype for SRT, just not on smashboards. Probably on their Japanese smashboards website there is.

 

[Ayuha]

>>OkamiBW
Players outside Japan can register just by telling me here.
If you are coming, I'll count you and write you on the front page list.

 

[King Funk]

I think I'm going to this because I'll be in Tokyo around that time. You can probably add me on the list already. If I'm not I will tell you in time.

 

[B_AWAL]

What North American Players are going aside from Kuraudo???

 

[Kuraudo]

I know for sure Frio, Burningpyre, and Kyle. Not Silly Kyle, even if our Kyle is pretty silly too.P

 

[OkamiBW]

Couple quick questions:
Participation Fee : ¥1000 per day
Means ￥3000 total, right?

Keikyu Kamata (Keihin Kyuko Line)
Why can't I find the stop?
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2371.html

 

[King Funk]

I know for sure Frio, Burningpyre, and Kyle. Not Silly Kyle, even if our Kyle is pretty silly too.P

Care to meet up with an equally silly European? =D

 

[Silent Beast]

Keikyu Kamata (Keihin Kyuko Line)
Why can't I find the stop?
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2371.html

You have the wrong train line (kind of*). The link you have there is for the Keihin-Tohoku Line. What you want is the Keihin-Kyuko (Keikyu) Line. You can take the Keihin-Tohoku Line to Shinagawa and transfer there for the Keikyu Line. Then take the Keikyu Line to Keikyu-Kamata.

*Technically, you could take the Keihin-Tohoku Line to Kamata station, which is one stop north of Kawasaki (it's omitted in your link) and walk, but I wouldn't recommend it if you're unfamiliar with the area as it's a longer walk.

 

[Kuraudo]

Care to meet up with an equally silly European? =D

Yes. Yes I do care to meet up with an equally silly European. Sounds like a plan. We'll be travelling all over, but we'll definitely chillax at the tourney.

 

[OkamiBW]

You have the wrong train line (kind of*). The link you have there is for the Keihin-Tohoku Line. What you want is the Keihin-Kyuko (Keikyu) Line. You can take the Keihin-Tohoku Line to Shinagawa and transfer there for the Keikyu Line. Then take the Keikyu Line to Keikyu-Kamata.

*Technically, you could take the Keihin-Tohoku Line to Kamata station, which is one stop north of Kawasaki (it's omitted in your link) and walk, but I wouldn't recommend it if you're unfamiliar with the area as it's a longer walk.

I think the best thing for me to do is probably to go from Nakano-eki and take the Chuo/Sobu-sen to Shinjuku, then take the Yamanotesen to Shinagawa and then transfer to the Keihin-Kyuko Sen bound for Keikyu-Kamata.

Right?

 

[Silent Beast]

I think the best thing for me to do is probably to go from Nakano-eki and take the Chuo/Sobu-sen to Shinjuku, then take the Yamanotesen to Shinagawa and then transfer to the Keihin-Kyuko Sen bound for Keikyu-Kamata.

Right?

Yep. That works.

 

[Frio]

pools are best of 1, do we know what the cut offs are?

 

[Kuraudo]

I've got a couple of questions. If the TO can answer me, that'd be appreciated.

Why not Best of 3 pools when the event is entirely Brawl? And second, why Bridge of Eldin for Doubles? If it's best of 1 pools with cutoffs that would just be...well, unacceptable for an international tournament, in my opinion.

 

[ぱみゅ]

1) They probably think of possible time issues and try to prevent them before they even happen. Hence the Bo1 in pools.
2) What's wrong with BOE in Doubles? I can see issues in singles, but most of them are minimized in singles.

 

[Kuraudo]

For three days there would be no delays in pools should things keep going on time. Especially when it's just one game there. That's what I believe. It's just common that pools for a Best of 3 when you are running an International tournament attracting attention worldwide.

If it's Best of 1, it'd better not have cutoffs.

[EDIT]

BOE is gonna turn into Dedede everywhere or Sonics trying to time the other team out. That's what I'm thinking. But hey, not my tournament anyway. I'll just have to make do with what the conditions are. The pools though, I wish would change.

 

[ぱみゅ]

A lot of things are different in team battles. As in, A LOT.

Also, what would be the point of pools if there would be no cutoffs?
Seriously, as a TO I've ran into LOTS of time issues. They probably just do not want to have any and created a much stricter schedule.

 

[Kuraudo]

How about the fact that there's THREE DAYS for one video game? If there's time issues running that over three days? There's something terribly wrong with the TO. I'll concede the Doubles, but the pools being sudden death with one match each? Have you run into time issues running a tournament for three days for one single video game? If you have, you're doing something wrong. The real issue comes in by the fact that everyone wants to get on stream. Just make people play their matches and don't think about stream.

This is something to consider to the TOs running Sunrise. Please take into consideration Best of 3 pools. You're running an International tournament that's attracting Canadian, American and European action amongst others possibly, not to mention best of 1 is not good enough to get the best out of a set and weeding out the competition. If they're being more strict, that's all the more reason to run said Best of 3 for pools. But if you're really gonna do best of 1? No cutoffs. What happens if Otori doesn't even make it out of pools because he didn't meet the cutoff in best of 1?

Though this means that you absolutely need to go all out. Any sandbagging and you're done for. Also how many rounds of pools will there be?

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

I guess Japanese are used to Bo1 Pools.
But because it is a International Event I totally agree with Kuraudo's arguments. Also the foreign smashers got a big disadvantage this way (not even time to adapt, and we don't know the playstyle of the Japanese)

 

[Frio]

Considering we have 3 days for the tournament I think we could do Bo3. APEX did Bo3 and they did multiple games in 2 days. It's pretty discouraging for people to play it all on one game after coming across the world =/

 

[Keitaro]

This all mainly depends on how Rain plans on scheduling things. Letting pools be best of 3 seems okay for 3 days but we don't even know what the schedule is yet.

 

[Ayuha]

Though we have 3 days, we cannot use the place during midnight, and we have to leave by 19:00. Japan is a really small country and have a lot of limitations about security.
Like SRBT or SumaBato, almost all the Japanese tournaments are held on 1 day. Therefore, the pools are always Bo1.
We will apologize for not being able to take much time.

We are expecting 256 players, hence 16 blocks / 16 players each. 6 people wil go on to the bracket.
For doubles, 128 pairs, 16 blocks / 8 pairs each.
Also, we are still arguing whether to accept Bridge of Eldin or not. What we are thinking is that BoE will not make much advantage to MKs. SmashVille and Lylat Cruise will make MKs easy to play, but BoE won't.

 

[Kuraudo]

Though I do disagree with Bo1 for such a large international event, if there is a time limit placed on the venue, I can understand. Your reasoning is solid in that case. So 16 players per pool and the Top 6 advance, huh? And it's one round of pools...

It's like going into a boss rush mode with 0 rings. Not a bad challenge.

I hope that you guys do well in balancing out the pools so that there's no real "Death" pools, spreading out the mid-card and top players. How many teams advance out of Doubles pools per block? 3 teams?

Also so long as our Alberta group is spread out too.

As for Bridge of Eldin, I would like to bring up one of two potential issues with the stage. King Dedede and chaingrabbing off the edge of the stage on the grand majority of the cast. It's not like Delfino or Castle Siege where the stages change. But more importantly? The issues with timing out. Imagine a 1 vs. 1 situation occurs, or even a 2 vs. 1 situation. There is nothing stopping the winning team from timing the other out, due to how large the stage is, and more importantly? If one of those characters just so happens to be Sonic. You cannot and will not catch someone like Sonic on that stage if he has the percent lead.

So much as I hate to do it, if Bridge of Eldin is legal in Doubles and my partner and I get the advantage? I will run the clock.

Also is it possible to get a confirmation on our opponents in whichever pools are made closer to the date of the tournament? During our time in Japan before the tournament and before the pools begin, I think I'm with a lot of people here when I say that I'll be studying any video sources of whoever I face so I know what I'm up against.

--

[EDIT]

Also, as for housing, we'll take anyone that has room for the four of us. Myself, Frio, Burningpyre and Kyle. I don't have any means of contacting those that are available, so if we can get some communications going so that we can get that established, that would be great. We'd only need housing for the duration of the tournament.

I know there is a list of people available, but I'm fine with anyone that can provide for us. We'd be most grateful.

[EDIT #2]

Last thing on the note of Bridge of Eldin? If that stage is legal, than Green Hill Zone should be legal. Same walkoff zones countered by the goal post to prevent chaingrabs, and destructable middle section like the Bridge of Eldin.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Don't listen to that guy, keep Eldin, it is a good stage for doubles play.

1) And this is probably the most important of the two points I'm arguing, because Doubles play is VERY different from Singles.
As long as both players in a team are doing their job, both Walk-off camping and chaingrabs into walk-offs are nulified 90% of the match, and that's what is the most important thing to remember in this case.

2) As for stalling: If you get an advantage, why wouldn't you capitalize on it?
2.1) 2vs1 is a bad situation anyway, and I'm yet to see a tournament match where the player with disadvantage makes a comeback against two players when none of them loses their stock with one or two hits. My point is, when it becomes 2vs1, chances are the disadvantaged player will lose anyway.
2.2) When there's a 1vs1 on Eldin, there are 2 posibilities: the winning player stalls by running away, or waits in the walkoff. The first one is lame, but could be done in any stage actually (y'know, that's Brawl's nature). The second is a high-risk, high-reward game I'm pretty sure few people would feel brave enough to play; props to anyone who tries it, tho.
2.3) Never thought of GHZ like that. It could be given a chance, imo.


PS. I know I am not coming to this, but there is nothing wrong with BoE being legal in Doubles play (specially being just a Counterpick), and does not deserve to be banned.

 

[Kuraudo]

Oh god I was kidding about GHZ dfkajhsdf >_<

Actually, running away on smaller stages typically doesn't work out so well. Especially considering the other stages have ledges and a lot of opponents have ways of closing the gap. For example? Stalling Olimar with Sonic on the likes of Battlefield? Doesn't work because of UAir pressure AND Up + B kills. The only real way to perform timing someone out is by utilizing the ledge.

 

[K-zaemon]

I'm a staff member of Sunrise Tournament and responsible for scheduling and organizing the tourney.
We (including RAIN) know that "Best of 3" in pools is standard in the world.
We are very sorry, but it's specific matter for Japan as Ayuha wrote.

> I hope that you guys do well in balancing out the pools so that there's no real "Death" pools
Yes, we're now discussing it (seeding top players to prevent "death" pool).
Of course, you foreign players will be placed in separated pools each other.

> How many teams advance out of Doubles pools per block?
4 teams. (So total 64 teams advance to final bracket)

About Bridge of Eldin.
RAIN decided to remove BOE from counterpick stages. So the stage rule will change as
> Starter:
> Battlefield
> Yoshi's Island
> Lylat Cruise
> Final Destination
> Smashville
>
> Counterpick (for Doubles only):
> Delphino Plaza
> Pokemon Stadium


If you have more questions, I (or Ayuha) will answer here.
Thanks.

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

Yes, we're now discussing it (seeding top players to prevent "death" pool).
Of course, you foreign players will be placed in separated pools each other.

I hope, you read up, which seeding the foreign players in their own country have.
I don't request a top seeding like 10, but also i don't want a random seed.

 

[xDD-Master]

Just give every OoC player a Top seed.
Its almost always done like this, it was at APEX and other tournaments too.
If players go soooo far for a tournament, they should at least get the chance to get far.
And if pools are really 16 players per Pool, then a bad player with a Top Seed wont surive anyway.
But it increases their chances at least a bit.

BTW. pools of 8 people with Bo3 takes just a bit longer than pools of 16 people with Bo3.
I calculated everything.

I can post it in german (Because I did the post on our german boards, but it wont be that hard to understand I think):

Statt Pools mit 16 Leuten und Bo1, 3 Stock... könnten die auch Pools mit 8 Leuten, Top 3 weiter und Bo3, 3 Stocks machen...
Ich habs grade durchgerechnet und die Zeit dafür ist sehr nah im Worst Case. (Wenn immer die perfekte Anzahl an Matches parallel gespielt wird)
120 Minuten für System 1.
168 Minuten für System 2.

Rechnung 1:
1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10+11+12+13+14+15 = 120 (Das ist die Anzahl ALLER Matches die gespielt werden müssen in dem Pool)
Wir haben 16 Spieler, also können immer Paare von 2 Spielern gemeinsam spielen -> 8 parallele Matches.
=> 120 / 8 = 15 (Das ist die Anzahl an "Match-Runden")
Jetzt rechnen wir noch die Maximale Set-Dauer ein (8 Minuten) -> 15 * 8min = 120min.

Rechnung 2:
1+2+3+4+5+6+7 = 28
8 Spieler pro Pools, also 4 Matches parallel.
-> 7 Match Runden.
Ein Set dauert MAXIMAL 24 Minuten (3 * 8 Minuten)
=> 7 * 3 * 8min = 168min
Gehen wir davon aus, dass nur jedes zweite Set 3 Matches hat, kommen wir auf: (7*2*8 + 7*3*8) / 2 = 140min (Das ist VIEL realistischer).

Wie man sieht, unterscheiden sich die Systeme garnicht mal so sehr. (In dem Falle 20 Minuten)
Und wenn man Top 3 aus diesen Pools weiterlässt, entsteht sogar exakt das gleiche Bracket wie im 16er Pools System, mit dem Zusatz dass man sogar noch besser seeden kann. (Platz 1 hat bye, Platz 2 vs Platz 3)

Anmerkung: Ich bin bei der Rechnung von 100% optimaler TV Anzahl (Also Spieleranzahl / 2) und natürlich perfekter Organisation ausgegangen.
Solche Faktoren mit einzubeziehen sind schwer. Hier könnte allerdings wirklich System 1 um einiges schneller sein, weil ein Spielerfehlen viel weniger einwiegt und man schneller ein anderes Match einfach spielen kann. Auch Set Ups sind für kürzere Zeiten blockiert.

Spieler = Player
Runden = Rounds
Minuten = Minutes
Anzahl = Number/Count
Rechnung = Calculation

I did this with the best number of TVs in mind, and perfect Organisation (They always play as many matches parallel/simultaneously as possible)

I may translate it, even though I think most of the stuff should be understandable.

 

[K-zaemon]

Thanks for your proposal. Danke schoen.

But honestly, we already discussed it at the beginning of planning SRT, and concluded
"8 players x Bo3 x 32 pools" (system 2, you wrote)
is NOT better than
"16 players x Bo1 x 16 pools" (system 1).

1st reason is that increasing pool numbers (16 -> 32 in this case) may cause
unbalanced level between pools, i.e. higher possibility of "death pool".

2nd reason is for lower (inferior) players.
Those who DON'T advance to final bracket can play against 7 players in system 2, 15 in system 1.
Latter is better experience for them, we thought.
(Instead, Day 3 is perfectly for higher players.)

This is our conclusion
and RAIN will not change the system, he says.

 

[xDD-Master]

Its a bad Experience for Out of Country people if they lose because of the system.
And as Japan is more used to this, they get a pretty big advantage from the beginning.
We dont argue about the ruleset (Stages etc.), but about how the pool/set system works.

Your reason "may cause unbalanced pools" is negated by proper seeding.
In 16 Pools there you will get 2 very good player, while in 32 pools only one.
Its true, that the less players per pool, the higher impact wrong seeding has.
But this is the TOs fault, if that happens.

Or will you do completely random pools? No Skill Seeding???
Then I could understand your point.

 

[Frio]

So I just have some questions about the days. Are we doing any kind of Crews (like Japan vs the world) and is there a day or time for friendlies?

 

[Kuraudo]

Japan vs the World would be cool. .....we might get our butts kicked but still. XD

Also will we receive pools in advance? Like I asked before.

 

[K-zaemon]

Seeding
I don't know so much about skill seeding system adopted in American/European tournaments.
In Sunrise, we will prepare
1st seed for top 16 players, 2nd seed for next 16, and
seed for foreign players. (Fortunately, the number of OoC players is near 16.)
If necessary, we add 3rd seed.

Crews
Home town (East Japan) vs Others (North Japan, West Japan, Foreign) is planned on the day 2 or 3.
(If we have enough time...)

Friendlies
You can play friendly match before the main event of the day begin, during lunch time, and after the event finished.