Sumting Sumting Maifa | Game Over

[fontisian]

No.
In that case, there is most likely a framer/tailor or redirector. Jack was obviously setting himself up to look good today based on how he was treating the Hando slot. Also, Jackrito you have yet to explain your read on me. Please respond to #2587.

Fonti, the fact that you are alive indicates one of three things:

-Scum is Doc dodging
-Scum has a way to deal with your role framer/tailor/redirector
-You and Jack are scummates

Given your and Z's play, I don't think it's the third. And I think the first case is less likely than the second seeing as there hasn't yet been any evidence that there even is a protective in the game. If scum didn't have a way to deal with you, I feel like they would take the risk trying to kill you especially since we had a no lynch Day 1, so it would have made sense for them to test whether there was a protective N1. So we're likely dealing with the second case and your results can't be relied upon.

That being said, it would be dumb to lynch Jack today.

Unvote

However, Sabrar I ask that you look over the points that I've made on Jack and shoot him tonight.

How would scum have been certain I was going to check Jack last Night when I said I was going to check Triss? And there's a fourth option that can mix in with the other three: they were more scared of Boomfrog and his potential role than they were of me.

 

[Xivii]

Crazy. I was just about to ping you for a response.

 

[fontisian]

Also fontisian Boom targeted N1, which is why I was disappointed you outted him yesterday.

Checks out. Also explains how he reacted to you.

 

[Xivii]

How would scum have been certain I was going to check Jack last Night when I said I was going to check Triss? And there's a fourth option that can mix in with the other three: they were more scared of Boomfrog and his potential role than they were of me.

If they have a tailor, they would target inside the scum team. So in this case Triss would not be on the team. And they figured the benefit of keeping you around outweighs the cost. Alternatively, the role works by targeting you. I've forgotten what name that goes by, fabricator or saboteur or the like.

Regarding the fourth option, we can discount that because you weren't killed N1 either.

 

[fontisian]

Crazy. I was just about to ping you for a response.

I'm a master of timing.

I don't buy your argument, I think if they had a target-able counter to me, in for them to have chosen Jack to protect they would have had to decide to not protect Triss and Logic, despite Triss being the person I said I was going to check and Logic being the person I had as my strongest scumread at the end of the Day. For Jack to scum, Triss and Logic would have to both be town, in that case. This is all supposing there even is that kind of counter, and scum aren't keeping me around because they weren't threatened by my choice of Trisscar, or they were more threatened by the Boom's potential role.

You're making way too big of a jump, and the result would likely just be killing the only clear I have. Like, it's bad enough that I'm kind of doubting my reason for townreading you, which is the Boom thing. Because your reaction to me outing Boom as pr yesterDay was super aggressive, and you only backed off when Boom told you it was ok. That means that you were the person he reached out to with his ability, and you would have known he wasn't a threat, and wouldn't have killed him last Night.

 

[fontisian]

If they have a tailor, they would target inside the scum team. So in this case Triss would not be on the team. And they figured the benefit of keeping you around outweighs the cost. Alternatively, the role works by targeting you. I've forgotten what name that goes by, fabricator or saboteur or the like.

Regarding the fourth option, we can discount that because you weren't killed N1 either.

Logic would also have to not be on the scumteam.

I've never heard of a role that would work by targeting me, outside of like bus driver and role blocker.

I'm not sure how fair the point is on the N1 thing. Like, Z was close to being lynched, right? Scum could have thought they had a shot at lynching him D2 even with the claim.

 

[fontisian]

Also, my role clearly worked N1, because I got an accurate check on Boom.

 

[fontisian]

No.
In that case, there is most likely a framer/tailor or redirector. Jack was obviously setting himself up to look good today based on how he was treating the Hando slot. Also, Jackrito you have yet to explain your read on me. Please respond to #2587.

Also, I don't /disagree/ on the Hando thing. The setting himself to look good when Hando flipped town was something I also saw from Jack, and was a major part of my decision to check him. But I think you're over tunneled on him, and, as you said, focusing on Jack today is not good. I also just, like, don't want to believe that my role if claimed would immediately become an asset to scum, which would be the case if scum could hit me with something that would make me check them as whatever.

 

[Xivii]

Fair enough. My philosophy is to trust reads over results unless it's 100%. I'm not crazy enough to push for a Jack lynch, but he should be vigged. Scum having something to mess with your role is exactly what bessie meant by anti-mass-claim mechanics. Scum are given something that benefits them in the result of a mass claim so the came cannot be broken.

 

[fontisian]

I liked your reaction. How you immediately started looking at the game was almost identical to how I did.
I started a list of 'confirmed' claims then narrowed my pool to all the unknowns, same as you.
Started thinking about each one.
I'm recalling a statement I think Wiisp said that was along the lines of townies are probably the ones doing things. You're doing things, so it's probably wiser to view you more on the townie side. to address the premptive questions "what is logic doing" He's at least present. Way more present than I have been.

[snip]

I'm not scum
I don't think xivii is scum.
I'm not leaning Logic scum right now.
Spak? maybe?

Maybe look here with me instead, Xivii . Pythag used his read of Logic's daystart to call himself townie for focusing on "narrowing [his] pool," which is just a basic scumhunting technique most of us do anyway. And him clearing Logic for posting a lot and the beginning of the Day feels like bull****. Why didn't he think anyone who tried to post and solve yesterDay was townie for the same reason? And like, the callback to Wiisp as a dead town feels super manipulative, like he's foisting the meat of the idea off on someone we can't possibly disagree with.

And he spent the post just clearing a bunch of people and having one maybe!scumread on spak. It wouldn't surprise me if spak /is/ mafia here, but he's definitely also low hanging fruit.

Yeah.

Vote: Pythag

I think this reads more like Pythag was trying to pocket Logic than protect a teammate. Scum!Pythag probably doesn't try to clear his teammate by talking about how they had the same thought process, and it reads a lot more like Pythag is trying to appropriate Logic's thought process and use it to self clear. Does that make sense?

 

[Xivii]

It can even just be redirector. By redirecting you to a vanilla role, your result will turn up vanilla regardless of who you initially targeted. This solves the issue of scum needing to mindread you.

 

[fontisian]

Oh geez I hadn't even read through that. Ok scum group is now:

Xivii, Logic, Bessie, Pythag
possibly spak though honestly they've been posting so rarely that it could just as easily be not having enough time to read everything.

Scum are just as likely to not have time to read the game as town. In fact, sometimes they have even less time because they also have to interact with their team.

 

[Xivii]

Similarly, it may not have even been that you actually targeted Boom. Scum may have redirected to one of their own in order to produce a false guilty. And it just so happened to be that Boom was non-vanilla.

 

[fontisian]

It can even just be redirector. By redirecting you to a vanilla role, your result will turn up vanilla regardless of who you initially targeted. This solves the issue of scum needing to mindread you.

Again, if they had a redirector wouldn't it have been on Triss last Night?

 

[Xivii]

Redirector targets the player doing the action. So say the scum team is Jack, Triss, Logic. They redirect you to DB. No matter which of them you chose, you would always get a vanilla result.

 

[fontisian]

I'm not letting you try and use Wisp's words to make Logic town here because he is doing things. He is only doing things because he knows I'm lynching him today if he does not. For the first 2 days he did nothing but weak read lists and still not done a strong push. This is not a real thought and I can't believe you think this.

How are you not seeing Logic or Xivii as scum I need this explaining to me apart from a world where you are teammates with them I refuse how you can see both as town off this game. One maybe but both never.

How can no one else see how shady Logic and Pythag interactions with each other are its not normal

This. All of this. Well, maybe not the last bit. The rest of this.

 

[fontisian]

Redirector targets the player doing the action. So say the scum team is Jack, Triss, Logic. They redirect you to DB. No matter which of them you chose, you would always get a vanilla result.

Ah. Ok, that could have been a thing.

Uh, if they have a redirector Tonight, they're probably going to use it on the vig shot, not on me.

 

[fontisian]

I'm out for now.

My stance remains: We are 100% not killing Jack Today, and Sabrar should not be shooting him Tonight.

 

[Sabrar]

Roles may exist which change a player's target. A player will always learn if their target has been changed, but will not learn of their new target's identity unless they learn information about their target.

WTF is up with people not reading the rules?

 

[Xivii]

Very well, I’ll drop it.

 

[Sabrar]

vote: Spak

You talked very little about Spak yesterday. There is #1935 with no follow-up, there is #1974 where you dislike his posts but say he wouldn't be a good lynch. He doesn't come up as a vig-shot from you (#2184), you don't include him in #2232. You have 1 interaction with him in #2188 because you misunderstood his comment.

So how come you vote him so early today?

 

[LogicoftheVI]

unvote:
Vote: pythag

 

[LogicoftheVI]

WTF is up with people not reading the rules?

To be fair I hardly reas the rules when signing up for a game.
It's only during eing the game when I need to verify certain things that I look back at the OP post.

 

[LogicoftheVI]

Ah. Ok, that could have been a thing.

Uh, if they have a redirector Tonight, they're probably going to use it on the vig shot, not on me.

Xivii i want your take as well.
Kill driver is a redirector so do you think there would be a second redirection type role?

 

[osieorb18]

Votecount 3.1​

Sorry, that message wasn't quite accurate. Maybe this will be better?

Conozco que tu confianza está casi muerto en este plátano, pero la esperanza ya no está perdido. Crean en plátano, y continua moverse por enfrente.

- Su Wiisp Genial del Plátano​

LogicoftheVI (1) - Jackrito
Spak (1) - Cuthalion
Xivii (1) - Trisscar
Pythag (2) - fontisian, LogicoftheVI

Not voting: bessie, Deadbananas, Malakandra, Pythag, Sabrar, Spak, Xivii

Xivii Trisscar Deadbananas Spak Malakandra Cuthalion Pythag fontisian LogicoftheVI Jackrito Sabrar bessie

Day 3 Lynch Deadline will be Friday, June 5th at 10:15 AM PST.

Spoiler: Activity Checks

Relevant D2.C3 (2+) and D2.C4 (14+):

(Note: In this case, if you pass the first one, you pass both of them if your D2.C2 was 11+ or more.)

Malakandra: 2+
Spak: 2+
fontisian: 2+
Xivii: 2+
Cuthalion: 2+
Trisscar: 2+
Deadbananas: 2+
Sabrar: 2+
Jackrito: 2+
LogicoftheVI: 2+
Bessie: 2+
Pythag: 2+

D3.C1 (5+):

Day 3 Start (#2683) through #2867.

As I did with the previous day phase, if you hit 11+ on the first 48 hours, you only need 2 posts in the following 48 hours to meet the D3.C2 check.

LogicoftheVI - 11+
Xivii - 11+
Trisscar - 11+
fontisian - 11+
Jackrito - 11+
Pythag - 11+
Sabrar - 9
bessie - 8

Malakandra - 4
Deadbananas - 3
Cuthalion - 1

Malakandra and Deadbananas have been prodded.
Spak has been prodded.
Seeking replacement for Cuthalion.

 

[Pythag]

on BoomFrog, why didn't you reevaluate D2 after Xivii moved BoomFrog to a town read?

Because Xivii moving to a town read at the time didn't exactly fill me with confidence, after I became unsure of xivii's slot during EoD1.

Not that it matters, but I don't think you did? I think I buy the 3 mafia reasoning.

I apologize, going back and forth between pages my post can get messed up, I had initially put it in my larger post.

I'm not letting you try and use Wisp's words to make Logic town here because he is doing things. He is only doing things because he knows I'm lynching him today if he does not. For the first 2 days he did nothing but weak read lists and still not done a strong push. This is not a real thought and I can't believe you think this.

How are you not seeing Logic or Xivii as scum I need this explaining to me apart from a world where you are teammates with them I refuse how you can see both as town off this game. One maybe but both never.

I mean, I was initially super triggered by his appeal to have the vig shoot you.
Vig shoot a townie?
Why do you think I asked about boom's flip? I thought his issue was trying to give reason to doubt fonti, who was like, super confirmed.
But his logic actually holds, cause I personally had no idea about the potential for roles such as disguiser or framer.
I can see why you'd be upset, because now it casts doubt on your claim and he was/is finding you scummy.
Can you explain why it's inherently scummy?

Logic...ok, I clearly need to reread him.

from the bolded can you give me some examples of where you did this in the thread?
If not what are your thoughts on that group of players now?

I did not. I'm currently rereading, so I will be answering the second part of this question in a short bit.
Short answer is :

Spak - literally who? I enjoyed his entrance, and I thought his vig vote was TWTBAW, I don't think I have anything else on this slot
Triss - I think triss is making the same mistake towards Xivii that I did, which was thinking he was doubting fonti, instead of the possibility of a 'protective' scum role. It strikes me as town.
bessie - has been tonally town, at least from the last game I played with her.
Cuth - I was confident in a town!Cuth D2, I believe Cuth was really on Hand, I need to read him with the flip in mind now.
Mala - I was agreeing with DB when I read that DB thought Mala looked better EoD2, but Mala was really only active and responsive at threat of death. I know it's possible to be a reactive player, but that kinda besmirches Mala a lil' to me.

Mafia can do things too (atleast being active), are there any examples of things I have done you feel are townie besides the way I approached the start of today?
Do you feel that the mafia have been less present than you have been?
Maybe not the whole team but is there someone who fits the description?

I'll get back to you about you specifically
Activity wise Spak is the one that fits the description the most in my eyes as having less presence than I.

I'm at work, but it's slow. I'll be hanging out in the thread (for real) as I reread[/QUOTE]

EDITED TO FIX QUOTES FOR READABILITY

 

[Pythag]

I swear to my father in heaven...I don't know how I absolutely wreck my quoting, but I do it almost every time.

 

[fontisian]

WTF is up with people not reading the rules?

Right, sorry, I knew that.

Xivii i want your take as well.
Kill driver is a redirector so do you think there would be a second redirection type role?

There wouldn't be, my shot wasn't redirected.

Pythag, it feels like you're just townreading everyone.

 

[Trisscar]

Scum are just as likely to not have time to read the game as town. In fact, sometimes they have even less time because they also have to interact with their team.

'Xactly. The stuff they *have* posted makes me susp of them, but they also basically aren't here most of the time, so....

 

[osieorb18]

Host Announcement ​

Toko Fukawa has replaced Cuthalion, effective immediately.

 

[LogicoftheVI]

'Xactly. The stuff they *have* posted makes me susp of them, but they also basically aren't here most of the time, so....

Xivii, Logic, Bessie, Pythag

Can you go over each person individually for me?
Give some examples of posts you found scummy (quote or post number)?

 

[Jackrito]

vote Pythag

I still feel Logic can be scum but Pythag is a lot worse today espically.

 

[Jackrito]

Right, sorry, I knew that.


There wouldn't be, my shot wasn't redirected.

Pythag, it feels like you're just townreading everyone.

sums up his entire game tbh.

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

Can someone give me a run down of any important messages/info I should know. For example, any claims or night actions that were talked about, as well as, any other relevant info I should know.

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

That being said expect more from me in 3-4 hours

1 min post timer is a pain in my ass

 

[Malakandra]

Yeah, I felt like a probable towncheck on Triss gets us no where, whereas any check on Jack (clearing or not) would be valuable. The vanilla check saves us a likely mislynch, and a pr/mafia check would have allowed me to force him to claim something.

I get it. I think trisscar is town, but they are also such an easy lynch that it worries me they will get us screwed later on if they don't get cleared. But with how Jack is still being pushed even with the check I get it.

 

[Malakandra]

Can someone give me a run down of any important messages/info I should know. For example, any claims or night actions that were talked about, as well as, any other relevant info I should know.

Deadbananas claimed town regretful kill driver, saying he used it on 3DS ninja night 1 and ninja died because he was targeted for a kill. This was confirmed today by Sabrar who claimed odd night Vigilante and said he shot Dead night 1.
Fontisian claimed neapolitan, and checked boom night 1 who flipped to be a pr, and Jack night 2 who Fonti says is a vanilla town.
Triss has claimed to be vanilla town.
Thats all the claims I can remember.

 

[Malakandra]

Once you get time to read a bit, what is your opinion on the other holders of your slots play?
oh theres also this graph. Which was created day 2 by a player that is no longer in the game. Its everyone saying who they thought was town or scum.

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

....What is a regretful kill driver?

 

[Trisscar]

Can you go over each person individually for me?
Give some examples of posts you found scummy (quote or post number)?

Went over Xivii and bessie earlier when they asked, each used an individual post as example of the things I was noting; but honestly all four of you are putting off scum vibes simply by ignoring arguments (not posts), using bad or incomplete logic, or saying things that make no frickin sense, or starting pages long arguments for seemingly no reason. All of which are scummy to me, regardless of current host-site meta.