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Sumting Sumting Maifa | Game Over

LogicoftheVI

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I liked your reaction. How you immediately started looking at the game was almost identical to how I did.
I started a list of 'confirmed' claims then narrowed my pool to all the unknowns, same as you.
Started thinking about each one.

I'm recalling a statement I think Wiisp said that was along the lines of townies are probably the ones doing things. You're doing things, so it's probably wiser to view you more on the townie side. to address the premptive questions "what is logic doing" He's at least present. Way more present than I have been.
from the bolded can you give me some examples of where you did this in the thread?
If not what are your thoughts on that group of players now?
Mafia can do things too (atleast being active), are there any examples of things I have done you feel are townie besides the way I approached the start of today?
Do you feel that the mafia have been less present than you have been?
Maybe not the whole team but is there someone who fits the description?
 

LogicoftheVI

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Trisscar Trisscar for 3rd time.
Cuthalion/spak/xivii/bessie/pythag/malakandrra
Who do you think is mafia and why?
Who do you think is townMalakandra and why?
1 each is fine.
Please give some detail.
"Neapolitan (Vanilla Townie Cop) - Each Night, may target a player to check if that player is Vanilla Townie."
https://www.mafiacolosseum.com/threads/mafia-colosseum-basic-roles.299/

?
We already knew the new that what is the point of this post?
Questions like why not a more generic killing role, I unno an odd-day vigi just seems weird in general given how most other roles work. Why not a x-shot? Why not this Desperado role:
"Desperado - Each Day, may publicly target a player to check that player's alignment. If that player shows up as non-Town, the Desperado attempts to kill that player. If the player shows up as town, the Desperado dies."
Why that version of a killing role in particular? Just seems out of place given how most other roles I've seen are structured
look these are questions you should ask the host post game. Are you saying you do not believe the claim? If you do believe it why all the questions? Also how does any of this help you solve either Sabrar or any other slot? Feels like a huge waste to make this post.

P.S. have played on many osie hosted games and odd/even is not that uncommon for him.
What is the purpose of these speculations? You can ask the mod after the game, noone playing will be able to answer.
****ing mindmeld....
 

Trisscar

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504
Trisscar Trisscar for 3rd time.
Cuthalion/spak/xivii/bessie/pythag/malakandrra
Who do you think is mafia and why?
Who do you think is townMalakandra and why?
1 each is fine.
Please give some detail.

We already knew the new that what is the point of this post?
look these are questions you should ask the host post game. Are you saying you do not believe the claim? If you do believe it why all the questions? Also how does any of this help you solve either Sabrar or any other slot? Feels like a huge waste to make this post.

P.S. have played on many osie hosted games and odd/even is not that uncommon for him.
Said what I thought about maf team above darlin', read back a page please.

That post was to ask Jackrito why they classify the Neapolitan as not a role cop, when it's in the cop section of the common roles list, and it checks for a specific role.

Mmm, I am well aware of Osie's tendency to screw the meta. I still think an odd-day-vigi is strange even for this game with the Imaginary Friend role. There are other (frankly less encouraging of blind shots) ways to limit a roles killing power, and therefore I question why this would be the path taken in that regard. It's certainly possible, but I do not immediately believe it in any fashion.

Also if this was a game of weird roles as a theme, I'd expect more uncommon ones than just the one we've found other than Sabrar. In fact I'd expect all PR to have odd functionality, which is not the case.
 

LogicoftheVI

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Said what I thought about maf team above darlin', read back a page please.
Yeah I read that, it was you basically ignoring what I asked of you. That and you did not even really give detail for why you feel the 3 or 4 of us are mafia.

That post was to ask Jackrito why they classify the Neapolitan as not a role cop, when it's in the cop section of the common roles list, and it checks for a specific role.
Role cop actually get the role of the person they investigate (big, doc, Vanilla, etc.).
Neapolitan only gets back vanilla or not vanilla results.
Mmm, I am well aware of Osie's tendency to screw the meta. I still think an odd-day-vigi is strange even for this game with the Imaginary Friend role. There are other (frankly less encouraging of blind shots) ways to limit a roles killing power, and therefore I question why this would be the path taken in that regard. It's certainly possible, but I do not immediately believe it in any fashion.
Xivii, Logic, Bessie, Pythag
I mean no offense but honestly I doubt you're the person we should trust to sort out the mechanics of this game
So you do not believe Sabrar's vigilante claim yet they are not part of your hypothetical scum team?
Please help me to understand how this works then?
Also if this was a game of weird roles as a theme, I'd expect more uncommon ones than just the one we've found other than Sabrar. In fact I'd expect all PR to have odd functionality, which is not the case.
Vigilante is a common role osie just added a modifier (odd night in this case) to make the role less powerful (weaker).
 

Cuthalion

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don't hate logic's posting today

T Triss , do you have any reads that aren't purely mechanical on anyone in the game?

people can stop tinfoiling about fonti being a wolf neapolitan cop, it's genuinely unhelpful, find wolves instead

if there are, say, four wolves, i don't think it's impossible that one or two could be vanilla if both sides are not super powerful-- jack is probably a villager, but it's not a open and shut case

also, because someone mentioned the possibility, there are almost definitely not five wolves, that'd be massively broken

vote: Spak
 

Xivii

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I think you are scum because you wasted town's time yesterday on a lynch, that was not a certain hit. Your scum hunting was a couple of ok posts yesterday. Also now you are trying to get the vig to shoot a confirmed town and also yesterday tried to throw a democracy voting system away on the vig vote to get me killed anyway. This is not how a town should operate, I'm not the world's best at making cases on someone because I lack the flair and charisma that others do. If anyone thinks your actions this game have being town really not sure what to say. All you do is cheap tunnels on people and stick on them with no wider picture. I also suspect you are protecting your buddies while doing so.

Also don't shade me on being right on something that was never certain I never once stopped the hando lynch because he had to die I just wanted a productive day which based off the EOD talk by you and Logic on Wisp you really did not want. Simply because a dead game state favour scum
Ok let's iron this out:

1. Wasted town's time on a lynch that was not a certain hit.
-Arguments like these make no sense because it places the burden of the mislynch on a single player when lynching is a group effort. If I wasted town's time, then so did six other players. So this point is erroneous. I'd also argue that it wasn't a waste. Hando needed to go. This is especially bad considering your post here.

2. Scumhunting was a couple of Ok posts yesterday.
-Not true. I made 4 cases on page 41. I evaluated a concern with DB (#1490, #1560, #1568, culminating with reevaluating my read in #1615). I attempted to get more out of Handorin (#1490). My intention was see whether he would reassess after considering pythag's response (Hando was under the belief that pythag should know how he plays, but it's been probably a decade since they played together); however, Hando never responded to the stuff that was asked of him so I could not follow up. I persued a discrepancy in pythag's train of thought (#1492, #1494, #2141). I persued a concern with your and Logic's approach (#1559, #1568, #1580, #1589, #1610, #1806). I stated my evaluation of you in #1820. And I persued a concern with your approach to my slot (#2473, #2499, #2504, #2525, #2539, #2556, #2577, #2587, culminating with my change in read in #2596). So this point is also erroneous.

3. Trying to get the vig to shoot a confirmed town.
-You are not confirmed town. Unless you are able to case why belief in a tailor is unreasonable, this point is also erroneous. My reasoning is in #2773.

4. Tried to throw a democracy voting system away on the vig vote.
-No I didn't.


All four of your points are erroneous and so my argument stands that your push on me is baseless. You just keep saying that I'm scum with no legitimate reason to back it up.
 

Xivii

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Alla yall's logic is bloody awful and I'm more than minorly sick of being tunneled myself quite frankly. If town can even still win this, those are the three that need to go down in the next day or so.
We all thought Handorin was scum. Jack, however, had consistently argued from the point of view that Handorin was town:

I agree Hando is properly the right lynch today so people can get their arses in gear the next day, because he has nothing redeemable.
Is it not possible that Hando was just a troll town, or is that only common in my community which would not shock me.
Its yet to be seen if this use of time on Hando was a good idea or not.
Could say something about if Hand flips town but will just be seen as wine.
Well if you are happy, leaving it with them tomorrow will be a waste like today partly was if Hando flips town.
The last two quotes are especially demonstrative of scum who knows Hando is going to flip town. In the last quote he is clearly already anticipating Hando flipping town. Even though he added the conditional, it obvious he was already thinking with a frame of mind that Hando was town and he was setting things up for today. Given that in the above quote, he agreed that lynching Hando was for the best and was ready for me to hammer Hando when I stated intent, him thinking it was a waste doesn't make sense.

So,

1. My two points on Jack are: he demonstrated an awareness that Handorin was going to flip town, and his push on me is disingenuous.
2. I think Jack is scum for these reasons, and therefore Fonti's vanilla result on Jack is the result of a tailor or Fonti being scum with Jack.
3. Shooting Jack will confirm that Fonti's results are unreliable or that I am severely wrong.


Now please show me where in this is the "bloody awful logic."


Trisscar said:
Also would like to note that maf may have to sit there for the next few days and kill off town slowly if maf majority does not just end the game. Certainly hope it doesn't come to that, it sounds boring for everybody involved.
The game ends when nothing can prevent mafia majority.

Mmm, I am well aware of Osie's tendency to screw the meta. I still think an odd-day-vigi is strange even for this game with the Imaginary Friend role. There are other (frankly less encouraging of blind shots) ways to limit a roles killing power, and therefore I question why this would be the path taken in that regard. It's certainly possible, but I do not immediately believe it in any fashion.

Also if this was a game of weird roles as a theme, I'd expect more uncommon ones than just the one we've found other than Sabrar. In fact I'd expect all PR to have odd functionality, which is not the case.
Huh? Don't you only have one game of forum experience? Imaginary Friend is the only unique role so far. Bus Driver, Friendly Neighbor, Neapolitan, and Vig are all common. Regretful and X-Night are standard modifiers.
 

Jackrito

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Like it's obvious he made this statement and just tacked on the "if Hando flips town" at the end to hide his TMI.
Yet again you are wasting everyone's time on a tunnel that will yet again be wrong. How would I know that Fonti would check me last night unless you think that my supposed TMI including mindreading.
 

Trisscar

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Will it convince you if I shoot you tonight?
Not unless you have some variant that also moderator-confirms that the shot was you, was not a scum nightkill, and was not a scum-role ability.
Not a massive deal though, you're either what you say you are, or you're maf. Either way other people are being weird and illogical atm, so you aren't really on the scum read list today.

I mean no offense but honestly I doubt you're the person we should trust to sort out the mechanics of this game
So you do not believe Sabrar's vigilante claim yet they are not part of your hypothetical scum team?
Please help me to understand how this works then?

Vigilante is a common role osie just added a modifier (odd night in this case) to make the role less powerful (weaker).
Like I said to Sabrar, they're not behaving oddly, they're just not actually confirmed. There is no usual mechanical way to fully confirm them till the game is over, unless I have an investigative role in fact, which would only confirm it for me regardless.

don't hate logic's posting today

T Triss , do you have any reads that aren't purely mechanical on anyone in the game?
My list is actually not mechanical at all, it's based on incomplete or flat out incorrect logic, or seemingly deliberate ignoring of facts despite having had it pointed out before and subsequently never providing a reason why they are ignored.

We all thought Handorin was scum. Jack, however, had consistently argued from the point of view that Handorin was town:


The last two quotes are especially demonstrative of scum who knows Hando is going to flip town. In the last quote he is clearly already anticipating Hando flipping town. Even though he added the conditional, it obvious he was already thinking with a frame of mind that Hando was town and he was setting things up for today. Given that in the above quote, he agreed that lynching Hando was for the best and was ready for me to hammer Hando when I stated intent, him thinking it was a waste doesn't make sense.

So,

1. My two points on Jack are: he demonstrated an awareness that Handorin was going to flip town, and his push on me is disingenuous.
2. I think Jack is scum for these reasons, and therefore Fonti's vanilla result on Jack is the result of a tailor or Fonti being scum with Jack.
3. Shooting Jack will confirm that Fonti's results are unreliable or that I am severely wrong.


Now please show me where in this is the "bloody awful logic."


The game ends when nothing can prevent mafia majority.

Huh? Don't you only have one game of forum experience? Imaginary Friend is the only unique role so far. Bus Driver, Friendly Neighbor, Neapolitan, and Vig are all common. Regretful and X-Night are standard modifiers.
Disagree, it was always a distinct possibility that Handorin was a gamethrowing or -playing a very odd strat- town, in fact the sheer amount of seeming to not care on Handorian's part, and the lack of even an attempt to paint them in a light of trying to pull something from anyone else and the subsequent wagon, practically guaranteed it.
I was just hoping it wasn't the case, because why the hell even play the game if you are just going to troll or give up immediately. All they had to do was ask for a sub out if they weren't enjoying themselves, they had other options and they chose this one.

Your awful logic was right before I voted you. It was a wall of text.

Game doesn't state that, despite other games doing so. Not convinced.

I am not allowed to talk about games in progress.
I have however played or watched a great deal more of other similar games, quite a bit carries over even if my initial strategy did not.
X-night isn't on the common role list last I checked, I do not believe that it's standard as a result.
 

Trisscar

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Also:
This was already known.
How is the game low power as you keep saying? I don't necessarily agree that what we have seen is low power. Not everyone has claimed so we don’t even know what’s out there. We can’t even be certain how many town roles are out there. And if true and the game is low power, wouldn’t that more reason not to mass claim and out whatever power roles we have left?
Apparently not.
 

Xivii

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Yet again you are wasting everyone's time on a tunnel that will yet again be wrong. How would I know that Fonti would check me last night unless you think that my supposed TMI including mindreading.
My case doesn't rely on you knowing Fonti would target you. It's not like the tailor would target outside of scum.
 

Xivii

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Trisscar

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My goal with shooting him is to see if Fonti's results can be relied upon, not whether Fonti is scum. Jack flipping non-vanilla tells us that Fonti's results can't be relied upon. Him flipping Vanilla tells us that they can be. This is the case regardless of Fonti's alignment.

If town, jack vanilla - can be relied upon
If scum, jack vanilla - can be relied upon
If town, jack non-vanilla - can't be relied upon
If scum, jack non-vanilla - can't be relied upon.

In the case of #2, there is no framer/tailor/redirector and Fonti has to continue telling the truth, thus the results can be relied upon.
This does not work.

Absolutely nothing is forcing Fonti to answer one way or another in any scenario. Fonti is not incapable of lying, nor are they restricted to only doing so. Therefore this strategy is half done. In fact the only result you could get that might be useful, is if Jack died, flipped something other than vanilla, and therefore showed that Fonti lied for some reason.

Also the vast majority of what I remember about your posts currently either follows this half logic, or is that giant argument D1 that I refused to actually read because I did not need the extra stress. Jackrito is correct, you have not currently added much of anything to the pursuit of scum, and have in fact been causing non-useful distractions for most of the game.

Do you have any questions about this assessment.
 

Deadbananas

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I don't see how its really relevant at all. There's not much point mod gaming Osie IMO. I believe the claim for rather obvious reasons, but i also think it is completely reasonable way to balance for a low power set up and have personally seen it before it a game Osie was in, and one he hosted. Talking about this wastes time and attention.
 

bessie

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Unno, it might be a stand-alone role. It could also not be, not sure if there's a usually-standalone variant of it or if that's it.

Anti-mass claim like what?
I think you’re still mixing up Neighbor and Friendly Neighbor.
Anti mass claim mechanics. One example, a role like a lyncher that has a target they need to kill, but they don’t know the player name only the role name.

Oh hey, low power. Gee.
Relatively.
How are you defining lower power? Because I don’t consider the powers we have seen so far low power. It’s not like we’ve seen a fruit vendor or something. Are you going by number of power roles, or the roles themselves?


Current scum team as of today, due to posts from all days so far:

Xivii, Logic, Bessie

Alla yall's logic is bloody awful and I'm more than minorly sick of being tunneled myself quite frankly. If town can even still win this, those are the three that need to go down in the next day or so.
Also would like to note that maf may have to sit there for the next few days and kill off town slowly if maf majority does not just end the game. Certainly hope it doesn't come to that, it sounds boring for everybody involved.
Why am I scum? Please explain your read. Exactly how does my logic not make sense to you, and how is that scummy? And why did you vote for me D1?

Said what I thought about maf team above darlin', read back a page please.
Is this the post quoted above?

Game doesn't state that, despite other games doing so. Not convinced.
Um, you’re not convinced that the game ends when mafia has a majority? I guess I could see that in a HIGH POWERED game.
 

Deadbananas

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I know you directed this towards Trisscar, and although I still think you are scum, I'm willing to work on this pool.
Most likely to be mafia is Spak. Has had little to no thread presence, their talk around the vig was odd since obviously it should of shot at Bananas had it been able to if they hadn't shot at him originally which is now confirmed they did. Their logic around that push was odd and also a good portion of their content from what I can see.
Most likely to be town, aside from me, is Cuth, since after coming in has contributed more towards game solving than the others on that list.
If you think Logic is scum, why do you think he would be pressuring Spak, who you also think is scum?
 

bessie

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This is a response to Pythag questions to me in post #2787, I couldn’t quote it because it’s messed up and buried in a quote.

bessie said: I am against a mass claim for reasons. One is that it outs the town’s PRs. And an experienced mod would probably have some anti mass claim mechanic.

ok, that's one. Do you have any other reasons?
That was two reasons, not one.

This is such a strange post to me.
1.it was in the OP, Ms Osie wrote that this game is 'relatively low power', it was like the first or second sentences in the post.
2. it was talked about a fair amount on D1 from Z25 and....Sab? LG?
3. You seem to be a super careful reader, so this just strikes me as off for you.
4. Boomfrog is dead? Or was that more hypothetical
It seems that perhaps Osie and I don’t agree on the definition of low power. Or maybe we don’t agree on the definition of relatively. Still not a reason to out any remaining town PRs.
Hypothetical.

And Pythag Pythag you didn’t respond to my post #2738.
 

Deadbananas

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[
Fair enough.


Obviously Hand was wrong but I still think the other three are good places to start.
In my last reads list I placed Xivii higher because I thought he was crumming vigilante, with his posts assuming DB had claimed that, I assume a reason for a vig to shoot DB would be if he thought they were trying to crum the role they had.
Right now me version of this PoE would be Pythag, Xivii, Spak, and Logic.
What are everyones thoughts on this?
I don't think Logic and Spak are scum together, but I think one of them is. Im leaning more towards logic, because I can build a team around logic, where as Spak has been a lot more isolated.
So I would replace Spak, with Bessie. Pythag would be the other complaint, since I still have a good feeling about them, but its been starting to dwindle with some stuff pointed out. Maybe replace him with Cuth for now.
I'm not willing to shoot Jack this late in the game, we could be very close to MyLo and Jack should be left till later since Fonti should only get a few more checks off so I don't see that info being worth the risk.
 

Xivii

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This does not work.

Absolutely nothing is forcing Fonti to answer one way or another in any scenario. Fonti is not incapable of lying, nor are they restricted to only doing so. Therefore this strategy is half done. In fact the only result you could get that might be useful, is if Jack died, flipped something other than vanilla, and therefore showed that Fonti lied for some reason.
Are you saying that town!Fonti would lie? If so there's not really any point in us continuing.
 

Trisscar

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I don't see how its really relevant at all. There's not much point mod gaming Osie IMO. I believe the claim for rather obvious reasons, but i also think it is completely reasonable way to balance for a low power set up and have personally seen it before it a game Osie was in, and one he hosted. Talking about this wastes time and attention.
*shrug* Aight.

I think you’re still mixing up Neighbor and Friendly Neighbor.
Anti mass claim mechanics. One example, a role like a lyncher that has a target they need to kill, but they don’t know the player name only the role name.


Relatively.
How are you defining lower power? Because I don’t consider the powers we have seen so far low power. It’s not like we’ve seen a fruit vendor or something. Are you going by number of power roles, or the roles themselves?


Why am I scum? Please explain your read. Exactly how does my logic not make sense to you, and how is that scummy? And why did you vote for me D1?


Is this the post quoted above?

Um, you’re not convinced that the game ends when mafia has a majority? I guess I could see that in a HIGH POWERED game.
Huh, interesting executioner variant.

We have at least 3-4 Vanilla Town, and only one kill from mafia a night if we assume that Sabrar is claiming truthfully. Honestly I was expecting this game to swing much earlier than it has, which seems to point to a lack of forces to make it do so.

It reads like you're expecting me to Thanos Chess my way through this one, and that to my mind means you are either "lost in the sauce", or maf trying to keep a public read on me for later or something.

No I don't think I've quoted it, but it was quite literally three to four posts above the one I was replying to.

*shrug* It has not been mentioned in the rules, so unless this site just auto applies it to most rule sets and only notes when it's NOT in play, I'm going to assume it does not apply at all.
 

Trisscar

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```Are you saying that town!Fonti would lie? If so there's not really any point in us continuing.``` - Xivii (editing this in because I forgot to press the quote button apparently)

....*Points at my previous explanation of what my D1 claim was for*

Take the deepest level off that, now apply it to anything Fonti might say.
 
Last edited:

LogicoftheVI

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Fair enough.

Obviously Hand was wrong but I still think the other three are good places to start.
In my last reads list I placed Xivii higher because I thought he was crumming vigilante, with his posts assuming DB had claimed that, I assume a reason for a vig to shoot DB would be if he thought they were trying to crum the role they had.
Right now me version of this PoE would be Pythag, Xivii, Spak, and Logic.
What are everyones thoughts on this?
Logic is town
Xivii has felt town to me wasn't sure what to make of their push on jack here but as they have explained things I can follow their rationale.
Pythag is lynchables, I have to dedicate some time to isoing them.
Spak has been pretty forgettable this game.

I would like your take on bessie as I get way more town vibe from xivii.
 

fontisian

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Yo, I'm back. I'll try to get back into this tonight.

For the record, no, town!fonti would not and will not lie.
 

Xivii

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```Are you saying that town!Fonti would lie? If so there's not really any point in us continuing.``` - Xivii (editing this in because I forgot to press the quote button apparently)

....*Points at my previous explanation of what my D1 claim was for*

Take the deepest level off that, now apply it to anything Fonti might say.
Ok, we're not going to be able to communicate then. You think on a logical level, I think on a rational level.
 

fontisian

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Are people seriously arguing to kill Jack? The hell?

If you don't believe me, then kill me, not my check. Hard yikes.
 

fontisian

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There is no middle ground just what is.
I started to read the thread taking notes.
Part way through I lost the desire thinking about how poorly received my precious efforts were.
Damned if I do damned if I don't....
The fact im confusing you should further tell you okm town as mafia i would be trying to pocket or buddy by making sure you understand me very clearly.
This feels town.
 

fontisian

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DB, Fonti, Jack and Sabrar should not be lynched today for sure.
Fonti, is there any reason you checked Jack last night instead of Triss?
Yeah, I felt like a probable towncheck on Triss gets us no where, whereas any check on Jack (clearing or not) would be valuable. The vanilla check saves us a likely mislynch, and a pr/mafia check would have allowed me to force him to claim something.
 

fontisian

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They are a number of reasons why he picked me and his list today confirms them to a degree. I'm not going to answer for him though all the way/ Since it could of backfired badly like it did on Boom if I was a town PR, I would of perferred if he waited to see who pushed me today first before claiming also to see who bites on me and who stays neutral
Ah, sorry. I thought there was enough of a wagon on you yesterDay that it was better to claim early and dissect that than bait out any more reactions or pushes.
 

fontisian

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 3, 2020
Messages
2,012
Your reads come off shaky but your off the cuff comments on certain situations come off like you know more then us. Stuff that comes without thinking compared to reads are a better way to judge how someone thinks. You are also not really doing much this game at all like Logic is, but you seem happy to push him when I do. Your paranoia of certain things and people just does not come across as real either, by that I mean it feels forced like your opening RVS on Xivii.

What happened to your day one readlist as well you said it was coming on day one and never did.
Agree with all of this. The readlist thing, imo, isn't a big deal, but the tmi feeling from Pythag is.
 
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