Sumting Sumting Maifa | Game Over

[Jackrito]

I think I might advocate for a mass claim now.
The logic being that we are already close to losing majority theoretically, the game is low power enough in scope, and the roles are strange enough that I don't think targets would be obvious beyond who has already died.
That and Fonti not dying when they're claiming role cop, and instead Boom dying when they were arguably publicly viewed as more suspicious, is strange.
If mafia or neutrals have more killing power, they've been holding onto it for two nights now. That seems ill advised and inefficient, especially when maf could have easily brought the game near maf majority if they killed twice tonight.

IF Fonti is in fact what they claim, that is 4 vanilla town and 3 info roles out of likely 12 town roles total. Maybe 13 if part of the balance consideration is how much non-lynch killing power town has.
That is either way over half the town roles as low power.

We still have seven people hiding in the background and not claiming anything, and I'm curious just how many vanilla town we actually have, given that we have now hit 3-4 almost at random.
Five of those people have been scum read heavily for most of the game as well. Information is a nice idea about now it seems like.

Fonti is not a role cop, he can only check if someone is vanilla that is not a threat for scum unless he is checking one of them who claimed VT. Boom on the other hand, hinted at something else and Fonti confirmed he was a PR so that makes perfect sense don't try and make paranoia that is not needed at this stage.

The amount of vanilla town makes Fonti role more likely true. A mass claim won't fix anything because scum can just all claim VT, and then kill Fonti tonight all it does is out the PR town have left. I'm not willing to mod game Osie based on a mass claim either, since we already have two roles that are weird as hell to me confirmed. The only thing I feel in this setup is that Sabrar could be a scum vig but not touching that today, since he shot on DB makes sense, possible he is scum with DB but not likely would need to look at their interactions.

 

[Trisscar]

"Neapolitan (Vanilla Townie Cop) - Each Night, may target a player to check if that player is Vanilla Townie."
https://www.mafiacolosseum.com/threads/mafia-colosseum-basic-roles.299/

?

 

[Jackrito]

DB, Fonti, Jack and Sabrar should not be lynched today for sure.
Fonti, is there any reason you checked Jack last night instead of Triss?

They are a number of reasons why he picked me and his list today confirms them to a degree. I'm not going to answer for him though all the way/ Since it could of backfired badly like it did on Boom if I was a town PR, I would of perferred if he waited to see who pushed me today first before claiming also to see who bites on me and who stays neutral

 

[Jackrito]

I'm about to be very busy for the next few hours.
RvX had me honestly go both directions.
First I was on xivii's side, and saw ran as scummy, then I was on ran's side and saw xivii as scummy. oh joy. glad I informed the thread of that mess. Everyone likes to see me waffle about.
Mafia makes me nervous for anyone I agree with, and I almost always try to distance myself from everyone cause I don't like being in a 'group'. I think it's easier to be taken advantage of that way. (barring claims such as 3DS or confirmed townies)

Now you can believe that or not. I still don't understand where all the claims are coming that I'm 'so confident'. I feel the exact opposite is true, and I think you're even picking up on that in my reads lists and posts.

I am working on writing stuff up for the game state but it might be way later tonight.

Your reads come off shaky but your off the cuff comments on certain situations come off like you know more then us. Stuff that comes without thinking compared to reads are a better way to judge how someone thinks. You are also not really doing much this game at all like Logic is, but you seem happy to push him when I do. Your paranoia of certain things and people just does not come across as real either, by that I mean it feels forced like your opening RVS on Xivii.

What happened to your day one readlist as well you said it was coming on day one and never did.

 

[Malakandra]

Fair enough.

Game-Winning Reads v2.0
Pythag -------- Xivii ---------- Hand --------- Logic

Obviously Hand was wrong but I still think the other three are good places to start.
In my last reads list I placed Xivii higher because I thought he was crumming vigilante, with his posts assuming DB had claimed that, I assume a reason for a vig to shoot DB would be if he thought they were trying to crum the role they had.
Right now me version of this PoE would be Pythag, Xivii, Spak, and Logic.
What are everyones thoughts on this?

 

[Jackrito]

Fair enough.


Obviously Hand was wrong but I still think the other three are good places to start.
In my last reads list I placed Xivii higher because I thought he was crumming vigilante, with his posts assuming DB had claimed that, I assume a reason for a vig to shoot DB would be if he thought they were trying to crum the role they had.
Right now me version of this PoE would be Pythag, Xivii, Spak, and Logic.
What are everyones thoughts on this?

I can see that as a possible scum team, I will be honest part of me thought that Boom was the vig based off his play yesterday with that list. I'm still not sure on you or Triss but going with what I feel is best and what Wisp agreed on that you both are town. I would say we have at least 2 scum in that POE.

 

[Sabrar]

I think I might advocate for a mass claim now.

I'm against a mass-claim. We need fonti's checks and a hidden protective role is the best chance to get them.

 

[Sabrar]

It IS a good way to limit attack power but still raises questions.

What questions? Why not ask them?

Neighbor exists. Raises the question of if a Neighborhood exists, though if it does the members have been doing alright at hiding it so far afaict.

LogicoftheVI I have no idea what your role is, could you please claim.

Sabrar May I ask which kill you are taking credit for, in case I missed it previously?

I don't like this at all. Pushes for claims, focuses on irrelevant Neighbors, doesn't read content carefully.

 

[bessie]

Ehhh fair, but still raises the possibility.

Of what? That there is a neighborhood? How?

I think I might advocate for a mass claim now.
The logic being that we are already close to losing majority theoretically, the game is low power enough in scope, and the roles are strange enough that I don't think targets would be obvious beyond who has already died.
That and Fonti not dying when they're claiming role cop, and instead Boom dying when they were arguably publicly viewed as more suspicious, is strange.

I am against a mass claim for reasons. One is that it outs the town’s PRs. And an experienced mod would probably have some anti mass claim mechanic.

How is the game low power as you keep saying? I don't necessarily agree that what we have seen is low power. Not everyone has claimed so we don’t even know what’s out there. We can’t even be certain how many town roles are out there. And if true and the game is low power, wouldn’t that more reason not to mass claim and out whatever power roles we have left?

Fonti can confirm town, not scum. BoomFrog as an unknown is more dangerous, like if he is a watcher he can identify scum, if he is a doc he can block a kill.

 

[Trisscar]

I'm against a mass-claim. We need fonti's checks and a hidden protective role is the best chance to get them.

Fair point.

What questions? Why not ask them?

Questions like why not a more generic killing role, I unno an odd-day vigi just seems weird in general given how most other roles work. Why not a x-shot? Why not this Desperado role:
"Desperado - Each Day, may publicly target a player to check that player's alignment. If that player shows up as non-Town, the Desperado attempts to kill that player. If the player shows up as town, the Desperado dies."
Why that version of a killing role in particular? Just seems out of place given how most other roles I've seen are structured.

Of what? That there is a neighborhood? How?


I am against a mass claim for reasons. One is that it outs the town’s PRs. And an experienced mod would probably have some anti mass claim mechanic.

How is the game low power as you keep saying? I don't necessarily agree that what we have seen is low power. Not everyone has claimed so we don’t even know what’s out there. We can’t even be certain how many town roles are out there. And if true and the game is low power, wouldn’t that more reason not to mass claim and out whatever power roles we have left?

Fonti can confirm town, not scum. BoomFrog as an unknown is more dangerous, like if he is a watcher he can identify scum, if he is a doc he can block a kill.

Unno, it might be a stand-alone role. It could also not be, not sure if there's a usually-standalone variant of it or if that's it.

Anti-mass claim like what?

Because we have 3-4, or possibly more vanilla town. It'd be weird if maf had a lot of powerful stuff they could do and town didn't?
Or are you suggesting that's the point?

Fonti isn't confirmed themself except to those they've checked, and even then not completely. I was basing that thought process off as many actually 100% confirmed bits of info I could find. Fonti does seem to be legit, but I would like to keep in mind how things might look if they weren't as well.

 

[Trisscar]

What questions? Why not ask them?
...doesn't read content carefully.

Like I said, I missed it. Stuffs been going down elsewhere.

 

[Sabrar]

Questions like why not a more generic killing role, I unno an odd-day vigi just seems weird in general given how most other roles work. Why not a x-shot? Why not this Desperado role:
Why that version of a killing role in particular? Just seems out of place given how most other roles I've seen are structured.

What is the purpose of these speculations? You can ask the mod after the game, noone playing will be able to answer.

 

[Xivii]

... Ok I need to ask this seriously now.

Is it a common practice in forum mafia to "act like scum" as town. Is this actually something people condone and use on a regular basis, or was this particular case just odd.

Cause I translated what just happened as gamethrowing by the definition every other mafia game I've seen uses. And I'm seriously curious why it's not that here, if it isn't.

No.

You can back off of Jack now, Xivii. He's vanilla.

In that case, there is most likely a framer/tailor or redirector. Jack was obviously setting himself up to look good today based on how he was treating the Hando slot. Also, Jackrito you have yet to explain your read on me. Please respond to #2587.

Fonti, the fact that you are alive indicates one of three things:

-Scum is Doc dodging
-Scum has a way to deal with your role framer/tailor/redirector
-You and Jack are scummates

Given your and Z's play, I don't think it's the third. And I think the first case is less likely than the second seeing as there hasn't yet been any evidence that there even is a protective in the game. If scum didn't have a way to deal with you, I feel like they would take the risk trying to kill you especially since we had a no lynch Day 1, so it would have made sense for them to test whether there was a protective N1. So we're likely dealing with the second case and your results can't be relied upon.

That being said, it would be dumb to lynch Jack today.

Unvote

However, Sabrar I ask that you look over the points that I've made on Jack and shoot him tonight.

 

[Xivii]

Also fontisian Boom targeted N1, which is why I was disappointed you outted him yesterday.

 

[Xivii]

I'm thinking Spak right now, but I need to review.

 

[Xivii]

Sabrar's play makes sense in light of his claim.

Pythag...

 

[Xivii]

Pythag why have you been playing how you have been?

 

[Sabrar]

That being said, it would be dumb to lynch Jack today.

However, Sabrar I ask that you look over the points that I've made on Jack and shoot him tonight.

It would also be dumb to shoot Jack tonight for the same reasons.

 

[Xivii]

It tells us if Fonti's results can be relied upon.

 

[Trisscar]

What is the purpose of these speculations? You can ask the mod after the game, noone playing will be able to answer.

Because the weirdness might indicate that it's a lie. Pretty sure yall have been using that logic the entire game yo.

It tells us if Fonti's results can be relied upon.

Mmm, unno. Fonti could be maf and just not have lied about it.

 

[Xivii]

Right. But that doesn't pertain to my point.

 

[Trisscar]

I mean it does. Fonti being scum or no is not changed if Jack dies and Fonti simply told the truth about their role.

 

[Xivii]

My goal with shooting him is to see if Fonti's results can be relied upon, not whether Fonti is scum. Jack flipping non-vanilla tells us that Fonti's results can't be relied upon. Him flipping Vanilla tells us that they can be. This is the case regardless of Fonti's alignment.

If town, jack vanilla - can be relied upon
If scum, jack vanilla - can be relied upon
If town, jack non-vanilla - can't be relied upon
If scum, jack non-vanilla - can't be relied upon.

In the case of #2, there is no framer/tailor/redirector and Fonti has to continue telling the truth, thus the results can be relied upon.

 

[Pythag]

It tells us if Fonti's results can be relied upon.

Fonti told us that boom wasn't VT, and boom flipped not VT. is that not enough proof?

 

[Xivii]

No because Jack is scum.

 

[Trisscar]

Vote: Xivii

 

[Pythag]

Pythag I'm with jack here.
What's your take on me before and after my reaction?

I liked your reaction. How you immediately started looking at the game was almost identical to how I did.
I started a list of 'confirmed' claims then narrowed my pool to all the unknowns, same as you.
Started thinking about each one.
I'm recalling a statement I think Wiisp said that was along the lines of townies are probably the ones doing things. You're doing things, so it's probably wiser to view you more on the townie side. to address the premptive questions "what is logic doing" He's at least present. Way more present than I have been.

In that case, there is most likely a framer/tailor or redirector. Jack was obviously setting himself up to look good today based on how he was treating the Hando slot. Also, Jackrito Jackrito you have yet to explain your read on me. Please respond to #2587.

I had really never heard of either of those roles.
This possibility actually makes me think instead of a 4-5 person scum team it's a 2-3 person scum team. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Your reads come off shaky but your off the cuff comments on certain situations come off like you know more then us. Stuff that comes without thinking compared to reads are a better way to judge how someone thinks. You are also not really doing much this game at all like Logic is, but you seem happy to push him when I do. Your paranoia of certain things and people just does not come across as real either, by that I mean it feels forced like your opening RVS on Xivii.

What happened to your day one readlist as well you said it was coming on day one and never did.

I don't know what happened to the reads list D1. I thought I had written them, but evidently I didn't, sorry. If I can recallll, I think i was working on them after Ran dropped his game winning reads, because it was with then that I thought Ran was super off base. Actually, that might have been something :
I thought by at least tearing Ran's reads out, it gave stances on mine. Idk why I didn't finish them.
I would've had to do two of them though, cause the more I read it, it went from TvT, to TvS, to SvT, and then ?v? (cuth looked ok the next day though)

I am against a mass claim for reasons. One is that it outs the town’s PRs. And an experienced mod would probably have some anti mass claim mechanic.

ok, that's one. Do you have any other reasons?

How is the game low power as you keep saying? I don't necessarily agree that what we have seen is low power. Not everyone has claimed so we don’t even know what’s out there. We can’t even be certain how many town roles are out there. And if true and the game is low power, wouldn’t that more reason not to mass claim and out whatever power roles we have left?

Fonti can confirm town, not scum. BoomFrog as an unknown is more dangerous, like if he is a watcher he can identify scum, if he is a doc he can block a kill.

This is such a strange post to me.
1.it was in the OP, Ms Osie wrote that this game is 'relatively low power', it was like the first or second sentences in the post.
2. it was talked about a fair amount on D1 from Z25 and....Sab? LG?
3. You seem to be a super careful reader, so this just strikes me as off for you.
4. Boomfrog is dead? Or was that more hypothetical?

Pythag why have you been playing how you have been?

I don't even know man! I haven't felt like I've been doing things differently!

Obviously Hand was wrong but I still think the other three are good places to start.
In my last reads list I placed Xivii higher because I thought he was crumming vigilante, with his posts assuming DB had claimed that, I assume a reason for a vig to shoot DB would be if he thought they were trying to crum the role they had.
Right now me version of this PoE would be Pythag, Xivii, Spak, and Logic.
What are everyones thoughts on this?

I'm beginining to think that 3 of those are wrong.
At least 2.

I'm not scum
I don't think xivii is scum.
I'm not leaning Logic scum right now.
Spak? maybe?

 

[Xivii]

Vote: Xivii

Chainsaw.

 

[Xivii]

I had really never heard of either of those roles.
This possibility actually makes me think instead of a 4-5 person scum team it's a 2-3 person scum team. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Why so?

Also why have you been playing as you have been?

btw I've correctly identified there being a Framer the last two times it was used.

 

[Xivii]

I finally got to 41 seconds on Gravitron. It's weird cause I can do 20 seconds each run consistently, so why can't I just do a single run of three 20 second intervals??

I'm currently playing this game on Steam called Dandara. It is so baller.

 

[Pythag]

Why so?

Also why have you been playing as you have been?

btw I've correctly identified there being a Framer the last two times it was used.

I think 4 with a framer strikes me as overpowered. I think if there's four mafia the game is super close to being over.
9 players...yeah I don't think there's 4.
2 players would mean that you essentially have a 'conditional godfather' (assuming that the framer can't disguise themself)
And that falls apart when the framer is caught and killed.

3 would mean that the mafia have to make a choice as to who is getting the disguise, who's coming under the most heat.
Those options feel much more right to me than a 4 man scum team.

and I answered the second question already with :
"I don't know man! I feel like I haven't been doing anything different!"

 

[LogicoftheVI]

I do not like Trisscar #2749 especially given they ignored my question to them in #2747. A lot of words but doesn't do or say anything new. I will post my question again for you.
Trisscar give me something to work with here today.

Out of these 6
Cuthalion/spak/xivii/bessie/pythag/malakandrra
Who do you think is mafia and why?
Who do you think is town and why?
1 for each is fine.
Please give some detail.

 

[LogicoftheVI]

I know you directed this towards Trisscar, and although I still think you are scum, I'm willing to work on this pool.
Most likely to be mafia is Spak. Has had little to no thread presence, their talk around the vig was odd since obviously it should of shot at Bananas had it been able to if they hadn't shot at him originally which is now confirmed they did. Their logic around that push was odd and also a good portion of their content from what I can see.
Most likely to be town, aside from me, is Cuth, since after coming in has contributed more towards game solving than the others on that list.

No worries anyone can share their thoughts it is honestly quite helpful and I appreciate you working with me even tho you think I'm scum. I agree that spak has a high chance of slipping mafia which is why im voting there. I will have to look into their comments about the vig to see where you're coming from.
I also agree with Cuth given the read from both wisp and xi as well as their contribution. I didn't much like their entrance but have made up for it since.

 

[LogicoftheVI]

Why not Pythag? Spak can be scum but you have no real view on them eariler what changed.

spak has never been able to scratch into the town lean side of things. I likes my interaction with them but infeel they arent really giving me much that incan use to gauge their alignment. I literally had to look at the player list to remeber spak was a part of the game. In the past I have been able to find mafia like this. Not 100% but somewhere that im willing to start for today.

 

[LogicoftheVI]

I am very willing to lynch triss today as well.

 

[Trisscar]

Oh btw, just noticed when I was looking to see if this game had MyLo and/or Lylo stated in the rules:

Sumting Sumting Maifa​

16 players

I have definitely shown this setup to another human being. Trust me! Why would I lie to you? (This is sarcasm. I have not shown this setup to another human being. This may change, but probably not for more than one human being.)

This is relatively low power.

Oh hey, low power. Gee.

 

[Jackrito]

No.
In that case, there is most likely a framer/tailor or redirector. Jack was obviously setting himself up to look good today based on how he was treating the Hando slot. Also, Jackrito you have yet to explain your read on me. Please respond to #2587.

Fonti, the fact that you are alive indicates one of three things:

-Scum is Doc dodging
-Scum has a way to deal with your role framer/tailor/redirector
-You and Jack are scummates

Given your and Z's play, I don't think it's the third. And I think the first case is less likely than the second seeing as there hasn't yet been any evidence that there even is a protective in the game. If scum didn't have a way to deal with you, I feel like they would take the risk trying to kill you especially since we had a no lynch Day 1, so it would have made sense for them to test whether there was a protective N1. So we're likely dealing with the second case and your results can't be relied upon.

That being said, it would be dumb to lynch Jack today.

Unvote

However, Sabrar I ask that you look over the points that I've made on Jack and shoot him tonight.

I think you are scum because you wasted town's time yesterday on a lynch, that was not a certain hit. Your scum hunting was a couple of ok posts yesterday. Also now you are trying to get the vig to shoot a confirmed town and also yesterday tried to throw a democracy voting system away on the vig vote to get me killed anyway. This is not how a town should operate, I'm not the world's best at making cases on someone because I lack the flair and charisma that others do. If anyone thinks your actions this game have being town really not sure what to say. All you do is cheap tunnels on people and stick on them with no wider picture. I also suspect you are protecting your buddies while doing so.

Also don't shade me on being right on something that was never certain I never once stopped the hando lynch because he had to die I just wanted a productive day which based off the EOD talk by you and Logic on Wisp you really did not want. Simply because a dead game state favour scum

 

[Trisscar]

Current scum team as of today, due to posts from all days so far:

Xivii, Logic, Bessie

Alla yall's logic is bloody awful and I'm more than minorly sick of being tunneled myself quite frankly. If town can even still win this, those are the three that need to go down in the next day or so.
Also would like to note that maf may have to sit there for the next few days and kill off town slowly if maf majority does not just end the game. Certainly hope it doesn't come to that, it sounds boring for everybody involved.

 

[Jackrito]

I liked your reaction. How you immediately started looking at the game was almost identical to how I did.
I started a list of 'confirmed' claims then narrowed my pool to all the unknowns, same as you.
Started thinking about each one.
I'm recalling a statement I think Wiisp said that was along the lines of townies are probably the ones doing things. You're doing things, so it's probably wiser to view you more on the townie side. to address the premptive questions "what is logic doing" He's at least present. Way more present than I have been.


I had really never heard of either of those roles.
This possibility actually makes me think instead of a 4-5 person scum team it's a 2-3 person scum team. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯





I don't know what happened to the reads list D1. I thought I had written them, but evidently I didn't, sorry. If I can recallll, I think i was working on them after Ran dropped his game winning reads, because it was with then that I thought Ran was super off base. Actually, that might have been something :
I thought by at least tearing Ran's reads out, it gave stances on mine. Idk why I didn't finish them.
I would've had to do two of them though, cause the more I read it, it went from TvT, to TvS, to SvT, and then ?v? (cuth looked ok the next day though)






I'm beginining to think that 3 of those are wrong.
At least 2.

I'm not scum
I don't think xivii is scum.
I'm not leaning Logic scum right now.
Spak? maybe?

I'm not letting you try and use Wisp's words to make Logic town here because he is doing things. He is only doing things because he knows I'm lynching him today if he does not. For the first 2 days he did nothing but weak read lists and still not done a strong push. This is not a real thought and I can't believe you think this.

How are you not seeing Logic or Xivii as scum I need this explaining to me apart from a world where you are teammates with them I refuse how you can see both as town off this game. One maybe but both never.

How can no one else see how shady Logic and Pythag interactions with each other are its not normal

 

[Trisscar]

Oh geez I hadn't even read through that. Ok scum group is now:

Xivii, Logic, Bessie, Pythag
possibly spak though honestly they've been posting so rarely that it could just as easily be not having enough time to read everything.