Sumting Sumting Maifa | Game Over

[LogicoftheVI]

Woof!

Woof woof woof, fontisian! Woof Deadbananas, woof woof. Woof LogicoftheVI.

Woof woof Malakandra? Woof woof.

Dog woof and bark
Wolves HOWL!

 

[BoomFrog]

regretful kill driver

Do you have to switch yourself and someone else or can it be any two people? Regretful means you lose the power if it causes town to die?

Wisp Ran aint spewed. But I do think it's more likely than not.

What is spewed?

What is your cut-off point for 'way too many'? IIRC neither player had 7 votes on him at any time and we should have at least 11 townies (given worst case scenario from a mod who apparently does things differently).

I know sabrar just asked about this but I want a little more detail than they are looking for.
Is this thought just in general or specific to this situation?
Was it simply because a lot of people moved quickly?
Or was it due to not liking those who moved or their reasons for moving?
I ask because I have seen lynches shift both ways in situations like these.
After you answer this maybe look at the voters and talk about what you actually think of those votes?

It's mostly by gut, but I'll try to analyse my own decision to make it more understandable. It's not about the specific people voting, I don't trust my D1 scum reads enough to give a secondary town read on someone else, that would be a decision with two levels of multiplied uncertainty and it's good data.

It's about how many people move to Deadbananas quickly and also how many people had DB in their bottom pile. He was the compromise lynch seemingly that everyone could agree on. Assuming we have 11 townies, you will still never get them to all agree on one person, but DB quickly had like 5-7 people ready to lynch them which means either a big chunk of town all agreed at once or scum was happy to join that wagon. Obviously this doesn't make DB confirmed town or anything, but it's enough that I don't want to lynch them D1.

If DB is confirmed town or close to it I might go back and pick apart info from who was ready to join the wagon, but I'm probably not going to do it right now. I try to limit rereads to 1 big reread per game, otherwise mafia spirals out of control and consumes too much of my time and energy.

 

[BoomFrog]

Awwwwwwooooooooo!

BoomFrog
whats ur thoughts on deadbananas claim?

Quick to claim responsibility feels very town. More nuanced thoughts await DB answering my clarification question.

 

[Wiisp]

wrong, he was bad, consensus does not mean incorrect
LogicoftheVI
if you are town I will get there

Ranmaru is town for [redacted]

 

[LogicoftheVI]

At work getting that good double time today.
I have someone else driving but we're out of town so I will post as the internet/data allows me to.

 

[BoomFrog]

LogicoftheVI How much have you played with Xivii before?

 

[Wiisp]

honestly, that emote response was pretty town!logic
unvote:

still dont understand why u didnt talk about Lasor, I guess it can be a coincidence
LogicoftheVI

 

[BoomFrog]

Sabrar Can you thoroughly explain your DeadBananas vote now?

Trisscar If you had been able to vote who would you have voted for?

 

[Sabrar]

Sabrar Can you thoroughly explain your DeadBananas vote now?

Deadbananas and Trisscar both were in my bottom three (#722). I was fine with lynching either but wanted more movement in the votals that we can analyze. Per my counting DB had 4 votes and Triss had 6 at that time. 6-5 creates more drama than 7-4.

 

[LogicoftheVI]

LogicoftheVI How much have you played with Xivii before?

Only one game.
I was mafia with Z25 in token party.
Xivii was town.

 

[Wiisp]

honestly the trains went full-auto towards EoD
like we had top trains of DB, and Triss
then all of a sudden it was Z25 and Handorin
and there didnt seem to be any effort in trying to save them
I say this, because even though the wagons werent officially stated
you would think the wolves would try to actively place votes on the counter wagon if that was a thing

We always have to think about if wolves were around, its possible they weren't
Handorin seems to pride himself on being wolfy
I think he handled the train and pressure very well if he is a wolf
but I guess given the second sentence, thats to be expected

 

[Wiisp]

in order top is the 4th most likely to the bottom being most likely.
Jack- Hasn't posted in forever and hasn't taken a lot of hard stances or atleast followed up on most of them.
Z25- I've been getting bad vibes from this slot for a while but their reads list helped me place why, they placed people in full town read slots based on meta alone already but had only one scum lean. I get not being able to solve the game quick but being able to strongly claim a few town off of meta and not more than one scum feels like Z is trying to avoid negative attention to hard.
Handorin- His content overall has been very dismissive and not focused on solving the game. Then all of a sudden he is starting to push an idea of already figuring out 3 members of the scum team #540.
Trisscar- I think I've made my points on this one, but of course I will be open to questions.

Edit- just wanted to add to Pythag- Malarkey lol

hmm, Malak can be town I think?
he is effectively FoSing 4 people for decent reasons, and I believe his votes stayed in this PoE, which means he's not making up his reads

 

[Wiisp]

Sabrar
why exactly do you want to solve in Hand/Fonti?
do you think one of them is a wolf? or is that just all for information?

 

[Sabrar]

I don't trust my reads right now (though it's a bit hard not to OMGUS against Handorin). I'm not calling any of them wolf although I still think there's a high chance that one of them is because of the tied vote.

 

[Wiisp]

vote: Bessie
going to start with you
Spak will be next
but that will come after work

 

[Wiisp]

Spak
bessie
both of you give me 2-3 possible wolves
and why

 

[Sabrar]

Assuming we have 11 townies, you will still never get them to all agree on one person, but DB quickly had like 5-7 people ready to lynch them which means either a big chunk of town all agreed at once or scum was happy to join that wagon. Obviously this doesn't make DB confirmed town or anything, but it's enough that I don't want to lynch them D1.

You used exactly the same logic to try to prevent a PW lynch in Newbie. Why do you keep applying the same preset schemes when you're aware that they're not reliable?

 

[Wiisp]

oohhh, Spicy

 

[fontisian]

I fully expected you to be able to vote it was the only way this role has a greater purpose and I normally see extra votes as a scum thing personally. I did not hate his play though since clearly half of it was you. Which is why I never pushed it hard day one.

I get seeing the potential extra vote as a scumthing, I guess (It's usually a town thing, where I play). Why were you afraid of it though?

I see your point about logic. It seems too obvious a thing to be a slip, like if I were scum that would be one of the first things I would think about avoiding in my Day opening posts. His excuse about already talking about Laser doesn't make a lot of sense either though. If he already talked about him, then the read should have already been on his mind and would have been easy to type out. I'll revisit this when I find where logic talked about Laser in my catch-up.

Woof!

Woof woof woof, fontisian! Woof Deadbananas, woof woof. Woof LogicoftheVI.

Woof woof Malakandra? Woof woof.

Awoooooo to you, too.

I don't trust my reads right now (though it's a bit hard not to OMGUS against Handorin). I'm not calling any of them wolf although I still think there's a high chance that one of them is because of the tied vote.

This is my problem with your statement. You're pushing people to go after me and Handorin, but absconding responsibility for the push. You appealed to this idea of not wanting to waste Day 1, as if failing to lynch a town D1 and then lynching them D2 wouldn't be super wasteful. I guess this isn't terrible if Handorin is mafia, since you're pushing for his lynch without trying to get credit for it.

 

[fontisian]

Sabrar If you had to state reads rn, what would they be?

This 1 minute wait to post rule is killing me. Relatedly, please let me know if I'm being too spammy. Don't want to overwhelm anyone.

 

[Jackrito]

I actually talked about LG a little D1.
It sure doesn't mean I assumed they would be the NK?
Anyway as stated in the post you quoted. "I didnt have time to finish everyone".

Ok I don't believe this you have time to make a Huge case on me but have nothing on the person I pushed most. Everyone e else you said something the two people you don't are the ones who were suppose to die. You really expect me to believe that.

 

[fontisian]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but bananas was apparently heavily suspected at eod. So, laser was probably the scum shot and banana seems more likely to have been a townsided shot. Scum!logic wouldn't have known bananas was supposed to die.

 

[BoomFrog]

You used exactly the same logic to try to prevent a PW lynch in Newbie. Why do you keep applying the same preset schemes when you're aware that they're not reliable?

I don't remember the details but we came back to lynching PW in the end of D1 so I don't see why you expect me to change based in that. I have learned to not extend this credit too far (after I think it was Dark Tower when I used this logic to still town read someone D3). But it seems still valid enough for D1. Besides, shaking up the wagon give us more data D1. Normally I'd have fake joined the DB wagon to see who would fight against it but I was trying to show more consistency so Z25 and Ran wouldn't get on my case like they did in Oasis.

 

[Jackrito]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but bananas was apparently heavily suspected at eod. So, laser was probably the scum shot and banana seems more likely to have been a townsided shot. Scum!logic wouldn't have known bananas was supposed to die.

If he's town that cocidence is too large though. DB was heavily suspected true so Logic having nothing on him bothers me even more.

If Banana was an attempted vig shot it was a bad shot. Hador should always be the shot based off play style and was one of the tied lynchs. Now we are stuck with him.

 

[Sabrar]

I don't remember the details but we came back to lynching PW in the end of D1 so I don't see why you expect me to change based in that.
...
But it seems still valid enough for D1.

You can't use what happened afterwards to justify your actions. Your logic was incorrect, that's all that matters.

 

[Sabrar]

Jackrito please answer #1226

 

[Sabrar]

You're pushing people to go after me and Handorin,

Not entirely correct. I'm advocating an information lynch only if there's no decisively better play.

You appealed to this idea of not wanting to waste Day 1, as if failing to lynch a town D1 and then lynching them D2 wouldn't be super wasteful.

D1 is done and we shouldn't reflect on what-might-have-beens. Only D2 is a concern right now.

Sabrar If you had to state reads rn, what would they be?

DB town because I believe his claim. Xivii town based on meta. Logic gives off weird vibes with #1220. #1222 is also bad for not adjusting wrt flips. And of course OMGUS. BoomFrog is BoomFrog.

 

[Cuthalion]

hullo

i started trying to read the rest of the game but decided i'm not awake enough to absorb that many posts from 16 people I don't know at all

so i'm going to wait on that until i at least have an idea of what some of you are like so it's not all as much of a blur

also hi fonti!

 

[bessie]

Thank you fontisian and Cuthalion for replacing.

Spak
bessie
both of you give me 2-3 possible wolves
and why

Deadbananas- For my analysis of Deadbanana’s early content see post 278 he had very little content and his questions toward BoomFrog were pointed, and I said in post 791 it seemed like he had an agenda. I read his claim and explanation and I’m still thinking about it. First of all I think he overclaimed and there was no need to add the part about being vanilla, so I am wary of this claim. Deadbananas was suspicious of Ninja on D1 so I can follow his reason for selecting Ninja to target last night. Deadbananas was generally viewed with suspicion I don’t see him as a mafia NK target though.

Trisscar- I was suspicious of Trisscar early in the game for overconfidence, for example I did not like post 131; she was questioned about that post by Pythag and I did not like her response in post 135, which didn’t answer the question directly. These posts gave me the impression of unwillingness to be open in reading the game. I discussed this in post 265. I felt that Trisscar’s content swings between reevaluating like in post 298 and more assumptions about how the game should be played like in post 292. In post 388 I discussed this and said that my impression was the Trisscar was looking for an excuse to scum read someone. Post 667 is an excuse for not giving reads. Trisscar’s reaction in post 760 was odd to me. Her vote for me was omgus without reason except that she didn't like my read of her.

malakandra- Nothing in his content is very memorable to me, he does have some reads and posted a lynch pool in post 617. The thing that has been in the back of my mind was his post 281. He responded very quickly to Spak’s post 280 so he was following along just not posting.

Ranmaru- One thing that I have been thinking about is his response to me in post 768 for town reading LaserGuy. This seems like a weak meta read to me because Ran is only considering two games. Laser's not a newbie, and I’m pretty sure LaserGuy has been scum before and scumread and tunneled me. Ran hasn't played with LaserGuy as much as me, so I wonder why he gave his reason but did not question me back.

 

[BoomFrog]

You can't use what happened afterwards to justify your actions. Your logic was incorrect, that's all that matters.

Maybe. These kinds of things are all about improving your odds of being right. Bring wrong once doesn't discard a while theory. My after game lessons for NNY were much more focused on my bad Cemper read and my bad Hari read so I guess I was just really really wrong that game and there were too many lessons to learn. I guess we'll get another data point for this theory next game once DB flips.

Regardless of of you think I should have changed my thinking, I didn't. I still think the theory has merit but of course must be applied with consideration for context each time as is the wonderful nature of Mafia. And I think it applied D1 to Bananas.

 

[fontisian]

Thank you fontisian and Cuthalion for replacing.



Deadbananas- For my analysis of Deadbanana’s early content see post 278 he had very little content and his questions toward BoomFrog were pointed, and I said in post 791 it seemed like he had an agenda. I read his claim and explanation and I’m still thinking about it. First of all I think he overclaimed and there was no need to add the part about being vanilla, so I am wary of this claim. Deadbananas was suspicious of Ninja on D1 so I can follow his reason for selecting Ninja to target last night. Deadbananas was generally viewed with suspicion I don’t see him as a mafia NK target though.

Trisscar- I was suspicious of Trisscar early in the game for overconfidence, for example I did not like post 131; she was questioned about that post by Pythag and I did not like her response in post 135, which didn’t answer the question directly. These posts gave me the impression of unwillingness to be open in reading the game. I discussed this in post 265. I felt that Trisscar’s content swings between reevaluating like in post 298 and more assumptions about how the game should be played like in post 292. In post 388 I discussed this and said that my impression was the Trisscar was looking for an excuse to scum read someone. Post 667 is an excuse for not giving reads. Trisscar’s reaction in post 760 was odd to me. Her vote for me was omgus without reason except that she didn't like my read of her.

malakandra- Nothing in his content is very memorable to me, he does have some reads and posted a lynch pool in post 617. The thing that has been in the back of my mind was his post 281. He responded very quickly to Spak’s post 280 so he was following along just not posting.

Ranmaru- One thing that I have been thinking about is his response to me in post 768 for town reading LaserGuy. This seems like a weak meta read to me because Ran is only considering two games. Laser's not a newbie, and I’m pretty sure LaserGuy has been scum before and scumread and tunneled me. Ran hasn't played with LaserGuy as much as me, so I wonder why he gave his reason but did not question me back.

Glad to be here! You were my first townread of the game, but it's kind of softened since then, and I really don't like these reads. Would you mind talking them out with me?

Both bananas and Trisscar seem pretty new, and you seem to be suspecting them for newbie things. Like, bananas probably claimed his full role because he doesn't have the experience (or experienced scummates) to tell him not to. Trisscar omgusing is pretty normal for a new player who doesn't get why town would suspect them. Mala not being very memorable I agree with, but again, he's kind of new and he seems to have this idea of how the game should be played with town sharing a lot of scum-suspects, and his suspicions fit into that idea (people focused on townreads over scumreads = scummy). I don't think him responding quickly to one post should be mean that he's always in the thread and not posting, he could have just been around then.

Sabrar I don't know what "Boomfrog is Boomfrog" means. Explain? How does one generally read Boomfrog?

 

[LogicoftheVI]

I see your point about logic. It seems too obvious a thing to be a slip, like if I were scum that would be one of the first things I would think about avoiding in my Day opening posts. His excuse about already talking about Laser doesn't make a lot of sense either though. If he already talked about him, then the read should have already been on his mind and would have been easy to type out. I'll revisit this when I find where logic talked about Laser in my catch-up.

not really am excuse i just didn't get to take a closer look at laser before night ended.
I posted what I had been working on over night phase.
You're expecting too much on regards to what was already on my mind.....kind of annoyed.

Ok I don't believe this you have time to make a Huge case on me but have nothing on the person I pushed most. Everyone e else you said something the two people you don't are the ones who were suppose to die. You really expect me to believe that.

Believe what you will, I don't really care.
Gotta ask yourself a few questions.
Why would I be so blatant about it?
If it was fake notes I would have covered those bases first no?
Your whole thought process here is way off base.

 

[Sabrar]

Sabrar I don't know what "Boomfrog is Boomfrog" means. Explain? How does one generally read Boomfrog?

My remark was a joke. To answer your second question, BoomFrog is apparently very similar to Handorin in that they both intentionally behave scummy even when town. As Xivii said probably the most reliable way to read him is in hindsight, to see which wagons he pushed and how they flipped.

 

[bessie]

Both bananas and Trisscar seem pretty new, and you seem to be suspecting them for newbie things. Like, bananas probably claimed his full role because he doesn't have the experience (or experienced scummates) to tell him not to. Trisscar omgusing is pretty normal for a new player who doesn't get why town would suspect them. Mala not being very memorable I agree with, but again, he's kind of new and he seems to have this idea of how the game should be played with town sharing a lot of scum-suspects, and his suspicions fit into that idea (people focused on townreads over scumreads = scummy). I don't think him responding quickly to one post should be mean that he's always in the thread and not posting, he could have just been around then.

I see what you're saying but being new does not rule out a player from being scum.

We don’t know what powers are in the game so that could be why Deadbananas wanted to get his claim of targeting 3DSNinja out early.

Where has Trisscar given any strong opinions on a player other than some suspicion on BoomFrog (for gambit and see post 1044), and on me? But I do see excuses for not giving reads.

For Malakandra, it was that the post was isolated without another post for a few hours after. Mala giving scum reads in post 617 was in response to the request for a “Bottom 4” list (by BoomFrog but probably earlier by Ran who does this in every game).

 

[Deadbananas]

Do you have to switch yourself and someone else or can it be any two people? Regretful means you lose the power if it causes town to die?

It has to be myself and someone else, regretful means the ability vanillaizes me if someone else dies due to it.

 

[Pythag]

I need to make a list of everyone who has town read me
It's just way to much for what I feel I have contributed.
They cannot all be mafia but someone should be tmi'ing me?
Pythag- says my early play was "super good".

The one that stands out to me in this group is Jackrito amd Pythag will need a deeper explanation on what made me "super good "?

I mean, your first two posts actually gave me "uh oh" vibes of potential inactivity.
Once you were in the thread you were not only incredibly active with the time that you had
you were also clearly reading, and challenging / questioning things that were going on. Stuff that I hadn't noticed, but I thought were good questions / observations.

It stood out to me more than DB, Malarkey, or Triss. I kinda group you three together because I didn't know you. Out of you four I was most confident you were town.

 

[Wiisp]

Sabrar feels like a wolf here, his tone is off
vote: Sabrar

 

[Deadbananas]

Sabrar feels like a wolf here, his tone is off
vote: Sabrar

Stand in voting for wiisp for now
Vote Sabrar

 

[Wiisp]

I think Bessie's read are relatively shallow, but he did answer my question

I don't believe mafia is as simple as, this is always wolfie or this is always townie

And I definitely think you should be taking them being new as information when trying to read them

 

[Wiisp]

Ohh I forgot I can't vote, rip