Suggestion for a radical alteration to the Dash Cancel

[BEES]

So here's a spacing option I thought of recently that I have not seen mentioned yet:

Modifying the dash cancel so that pressing down and slightly back on the control stick causes your dash momentum to reverse. The result is that you slide backwards while facing forwards. Pressing down and slightly forward would create the same dash cancel that it does currently.

I'll be blatantly honest and say I'm suggesting this because it looks like fun. It's a small enough change that I'm fairly confident it won't break the metagame. It just adds a spacing element that would be useful on the rare occasion.

Just something to consider.

 

[JCaesar]

Crawling characters can already do this...

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Well, the only spacing maneuver that it would give would be running towards your opponent and then DCing backwards sort of like an uber stunted wavedash that can only be done backwards and after you're out of your initial dash animation and into a straight dash.
Basically crawldashing for people who can't crawl.

Yeah, crawldashing is fun. No Crawldashing isn't broken. But is it really worth coding at the moment for such a trivial mechanic?

 

[timothyung]

Is that Marth? Or Ike?
This mechanic will have a big problem. If you want to flick the control stick down-backwards, you rotate the stick. Know what I mean? You will do a normal DC before you can do a reverse DC. If you make the input window longer, the character will move to the front, then to the back. Weird.

 

[Deleted member]

ehm not really, you can move it in a straight line from forward to down-back, or even through neutral if you're quick enough.

 

[timothyung]

If you move it that way, won't you turn around instead?
Though I have another suggestion. Why cancel a dash with a crouch? Why don't just let us cancel the dash with anything? I mean if you DC with a crouch, you can do anything immediately after that. It's like manual L-cancelling. DCing with anything is just like ALC. Just let us do anything out of the end dash animation, instead of having to cancel the dash with a crouch.

 

[Revven]

If you move it that way, won't you turn around instead?
Though I have another suggestion. Why cancel a dash with a crouch? Why don't just let us cancel the dash with anything? I mean if you DC with a crouch, you can do anything immediately after that. It's like manual L-cancelling. DCing with anything is just like ALC. Just let us do anything out of the end dash animation, instead of having to cancel the dash with a crouch.

There's a huge difference between the two you are comparing.

There are many instances where you may not want to DC, as a DC can leave you open if you blindly rush in, especially if someone is shielding and expecting you to DC > attack. Doing anything out of a dash would also be way too good, while the DC leaves you open for a split second giving the opponent at least some frame time to attack you before you attack him or shield the move (trust me, Fox doing DC > Dtilt isn't something you always want to do or DC > Fsmash). Shield canceling your dash is also another option to do as well and you still have DACUS for some characters.

Moot point is moot.

 

[timothyung]

It seems that I don't quite really understand the mechanic of crouching.
Explain more please? How many frames does it take to crouch? What can the crouch be cancelled into?

 

[BEES]

Is that Marth? Or Ike?
This mechanic will have a big problem. If you want to flick the control stick down-backwards, you rotate the stick. Know what I mean? You will do a normal DC before you can do a reverse DC. If you make the input window longer, the character will move to the front, then to the back. Weird.

That's an interesting point. You could be right, since while dashing you're pressing forward. You have to press down a certain amount to get the dash cancel, right? There's a threshold where pressing down slightly won't make you crouch during a dash. That's there to keep your random thumb movements from causing crouches (or hops) at inopportune times.

Here's your thumb trajectory when you perform a reverse dash cancel. For most angles, you never pass into the range where you accidentally do a forward dash cancel.

 

[Veril]

while a neat idea, this would serve to homogenize the game by making a cool mechanic (crawldashing) universal. Its unnecessary and takes away from the characters that can do it. Not even as a balance issue, but in the interest of keeping character traits diverse, I think this is a bad idea.

 

[BEES]

Interesting. I don't play any crawling characters, and when I do my playstyle reflects the non-crawling characters I usually deal with, so I never encountered this technique.

Are you sure it screws these characters over any more than giving everyone a regular dash canceling animation would?

e: and homogenizing the gameplay is a matter of perspective. Adding a buff to every character may cause more characters to rely on the buff than on their natural strengths, but that doesn't change the fact that they have more options now. The metagame gets deeper, and characters still have their differences.

This would certainly not be the best thing to do in every situation (or in most situations probably).

 

[Rudra]

I'm actually interested in this. It would add a nice new twist to DCing.

 

[Revven]

I'm actually interested in this. It would add a nice new twist to DCing.

That people like Sheik and Squirtle already have... the crawldash.

I don't think this is necessary, especially to homogenize it.

 

[metaXzero]

Of course it's not neccessary. Neither is DC, but we wanted that in. Heck, many ideas for techs are unneccessary for Brawl+.

It's just a thing of "do we want it?"

 

[BEES]

That people like Sheik and Squirtle already have... the crawldash.

I don't think this is necessary, especially to homogenize it.

I really don't find this argument convincing.

The characters that can crawldash would be able to crawldash out of a reverse dash cancel, giving them a better dc than other characters in the game and preserving their uniqueness.

And if I have this correctly, crawldashing only worked while you were walking in vBrawl. The dash cancel code is what allows crawling characters to do it out of a dash. This is not an option they originally had; it is one we added, and it's sort of arbitrary to claim only these characters 'deserve' it.

 

[BEES]

I would like to hear about this from a few more people. Preferably some people who are central to the development of Brawl+.

Brawl+ needs some creative additions to the gameplay--not just obvious gravity increases and character balancing. Real, actual improvements to the depth of the game need to be added. Currently it has only a few novelties to hold over the other Smash games: pivot grabbing, footstooling, and a few more characters. Whoopdy-doo.