Struggling to KO.

[MJN Pilot]

Hey. I have been having issues KO'ing with Jiggs. I can rack up all well and good, but I seem to struggle on actually finishing the job. I would usually just try and fish for a bair while playing safe, but recently I have been playing against a friend who plays Lucario and I can't do that nearly as well. (Between his crazy aura range buffs and the over spamming of Aura Spheres makes my head spin).

What would you recommend?

 

[Hameed Ziabari]

Lucario is a tough matchup because hes incredibly difficult to edgegaurd. Your best bet is to fair/nair/bair him until 80%-100%. If you can bait him into rolling towards you, or bait a shield grab, or just punish with rest your good. Rest is your earliest kill move (no ****) and if you try to use bair he just gets aura boosts.

 

[MJN Pilot]

Your best bet is to fair/nair/bair him until 80%-100%.

My only issue with this is that his Aura gets extreamly high so it becomes even more of an issue. But you're 100% right. I think I just need to up my punish game a bit.

 

[drakeirving]

Yes, with Lucario it's difficult because of Aura, since you don't want to get him so high that he can KO you with just about anything, yet if he is low it's hard to kill. Clearly the best solution to this is to Rest, and if you can do that the whole match is in your favor because then he's back to no Aura. He has some laggy moves that can be punished with Rest if you learn the timing. But anything besides Rest can get difficult, especially since with his recovery he will be able to get back on stage unless you can follow. You can try walling him off stage to death since his recovery takes a bit to get out, and if you hit him too far away you can try gimping it since nair can beat it.

You actually have the benefit of being able to practice against a Lucario to test what works and what doesn't, so that's already good.

 

[Darklink401]

I always like fairing a fair, going over their head, then bairing them from behind.

Lucario IS tricky though, no joke. Rest would definitely be good, because his super crazy recovery wouldn't be worth a damn if he gets killed from the top ;D

 

[toadster101]

Rest is your best option so you can KO him early before his aura kicks in. Otherwise back air is the most reliable kill move.

 

[itsReaLitY]

Another good option is grab then dthrow to uair and since lucario cant stay in the air very well its kinda easy to juggle him.

 

[Meek Moths]

on 4G rollout is a good option as many n00bs panic when they see it and get kileld

at higher percentages, Pound can kill too

fsmash is surprisingly powerful, but it's best to use when you bait dodge or roll

 

[ZHMT]

Close bair is one of the best ko moves in the game, utilt is really good because it has very high knockback scaling. Usmash out of shield is also viable. Offstage strong nairs will kill fairly well, especially wiith Puff at 60+%.

Rollout is bad, don't advocate using the move, its just bad, borderline unusable, Brawl Mario dtilt tier trash. Pound can kill but isn't a reliable kill move, you should KO them well before pound kills. Fsmash off reads is fine but isn't a core part of Puff gameplay.

 

[Meek Moths]

Rollout is bad, don't advocate using the move, its just bad, borderline unusable, Brawl Mario dtilt tier trash. Pound can kill but isn't a reliable kill move, you should KO them well before pound kills. Fsmash off reads is fine but isn't a core part of Puff gameplay.

m8 u dont know what your talking about Rollout got me so many kills its definitely viable...just not against smart players C;

 

[proxibomb]

When versing Lucario, you want to keep him off the stage as much as possible. What I'll do is push him off stage, and wait for him to recovery, and repeat the process.

 

[ZHMT]

m8 u dont know what your talking about Rollout got me so many kills its definitely viable...just not against smart players C;

It may have got you a lot of kills but that's likely online in For Glory against bad players. In a competitive enviornment its a terrible move.

 

[Meek Moths]

It may have got you a lot of kills but that's likely online in For Glory against bad players. In a competitive enviornment its a terrible move.

i thikn you should have realised by now that 4glory is actually more important than most tournaments as it's the more easily accessed than tournys. not only that, but aside from america and japan, the rest of the world really does not play smash tourny that much so people just play 4glory.

and i think its clear that OP is talking mainly about getting kills in online play

yeah and as you mentioned up tilt is a very good move how could i forget it's quick and really deceptive. it looks like some weak kick but the knockback, oh my

 

[drakeirving]

The point is that decent players aren't fooled by Rollout and can effectively punish it. If your argument is that dumb players get caught by certain moves then whoopdedoo but it doesn't make them viable in general. Your advice is like telling a Mario player that spamming fireballs and rolling across the stage is a good strategy.

If you want to point out OP's situation in particular then it's even worse, since Lucario immediately shuts it down with Aura Sphere (charging it facing backwards will stop you entirely) and/or Counter.

 

[Meek Moths]

The point is that decent players aren't fooled by Rollout and can effectively punish it.

you are definitely right! that why i said that it doesnt work against smart people in my previous post, but then againt 70% of 4g is not smart

also jigs is a derpy character and rollout is a derpy move so it works perfectly with jigs

 

[ZHMT]

For Glory has randomness in the form of lag and its objectively a bad move with it slow startup, lack of safety and its predictability. Just because I've hit people with Ganondorfs up tilt a lot doesn't make it a good move and doesn't mean I should suggest using it.

The thing is, I'm not interested in teaching players how to do things that shouldn't work or aren't practical. It doesn't matter if the more players play on FG, what matters is where he stands as a player and what he wants to achieve. He brought up playing against friends, which For Glory is against random people. He isn't talking about FG, don't bring up exclusive tips for it.

 

[Meek Moths]

you say truth.so in the end it's just better to say that if one cant use rollout to its fullest potentional, it's better to not use it.

 

[Akumetsu]

Not really something useful vs. Lucario due to his revovery, but throwing them offstage gives you a good chance to kill with Bair / Gimp with areals in general due to them being more predictable while recovering.
Of course there are chars that are hard too edgeguard so it's less effective there.
But "working" towards a kill by getting your enemy in a bad position can work better than trying to fish for something.

 

[jamzthehedgehog]

I would say try using dash attack sometimes. The sweet spot of that move has surprising kill power on an opponent at around 120%. Other than that, try baiting a roll and punishing Lucario with rest... from what I've experienced, Lucario sure loves to roll, especially if you put pressure on them while they're charging aura sphere or by simply cornering them against the edge of the stage... The problem with Rest though, is that the new top screen KO mechanics actually nerfs it. If you're unlucky enough to get an instant top screen explosion instead of the preferred ''we're blasting off again'' or ''screen splat'', then your opponent will have enough time to spawn and punish your rest with a smash attack... which is pretty stupid considering how light Jigglypuff is and how hard rest is to land.
Sakurai and the team totally overlooked this