Stereotypes continually insist Wario is Low-Bottom Tier

[Nintendude92z]

Wario is my secondary. Possibly my primary. I agree with all the Pro's of page one, and Wario makes up for range with his Fsmash' invincibility frames.

 

[handsockpuppet]

Wario is my secondary. Possibly my primary. I agree with all the Pro's of page one, and Wario makes up for range with his Fsmash' invincibility frames.

i politely dissagree. I think that Wario makes up for his lack of range by means of his incredible aerial control. no other character can space a shorthopped aerial as well.

 

[Sodapop]

I think Wario makes up his lack of range by eating people.....lol, but really. He has the best recovery, aerial game, Final Smash, whats so bad about having to break a bike that SPAWNS in like three seconds to make your own projectiles?

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Wario having the best recovery is debatable at best and untrue at worst.

 

[Sodapop]

Okay, I should have said, when all conditions have been met, his recovery is in the top 5.

 

[SBJtagteam]

I believe Mango (Jigglypuff) beat M2K (Marth) at Pound 3.

END LOGIC LESSON

hahaha....

 

[cyclops4ever]

distance wise i would have to agree, same with diddy kong, but not the top 5 best at all. too easy to knock him off and kill him, no matter what percent. soooo

 

[Zombie-Hero]

i know i'm not very "known" yet for wario but you guys are seriously underestimating some of wario's critical moves. i give him at least middle or higher of mid tier. he is almost, not as nice, but almost as nice in the air as on the ground. just because a move is faster doesnt mean its better. mixed with air, its hard to stop him. and his recovery is another HUGE DOWNFALL FOR HIM, I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY SO MANY PEOPLE DONT SEE IT! i guess you'll all find out later as the game progresses, butat zero percent, or any percent for that matter, you get chased out, or do the chasing and gte knocked off you bike without a reasonable fart stored...you're through. any decent person can see this. that alone is worse than his range. i'm gona hear alot of complaining when people realize this. how do i stop people from smacking me off my bike? blah blah. example rob falls off ledge lazers, d3 drops off back a etc, marth fair off ur bike, it goes on and on. anycharacter cn do it easily. just watch out for it. especially if you are too far down and need to tilt the bike to get up. other than that he's pretty good. and DAMA shall be taking over.

and i agree with superrvan as well, you have to be better with wario to win, period. he's nice but not that nice. more the reason to main him! prove you're better than them! wah wah wahhh!

My first reaction to this was "this has never happend to me...", but that is just reactionary anecdotal evidence, and I don't play a large amount of people. I'm just curious about how much better the edge-guarder has to be than wario to pull this off, since it seems like they would have to do a lot before Wario even hits 'jump' to get around it. Wario's jump off the bike is usually good enough to bring him back to the stage. He still has good movement in his airdodge, so he should still be able to get back, and he even has that his b+up recovery to help out if only a little is needed. Has this happened in any tournaments?

 

[Sodapop]

distance wise i would have to agree, same with diddy kong, but not the top 5 best at all. too easy to knock him off and kill him, no matter what percent. soooo

Agreed, cyclops.

 

[handsockpuppet]

distance wise i would have to agree, same with diddy kong, but not the top 5 best at all. too easy to knock him off and kill him, no matter what percent. soooo

no, no not really

the bike jump normally covers it, and it has virtually no lag since it's just a jump. sometimes you can even land with the bike, again no lag. also, the waft is almost impossible to edgeguar/hog since it hits the enemy, plus you have up-B after it if something goes wrong.

 

[Tin]

To me, Wario will be at the top of mid-tier, at best. Wario is a very solid character, extremely balanced, think Captain Falcon and Samus back in the days. Too bad being balanced isn't enough in the metagame where beasts like Metaknight, Marth, and Game&Watch dominate. Of course, you can argue that people like Hugs and Isai takes these balanced characters to the top, but when was the last time you see a Samus or Captain Falcon consistently win against a Marth or a Fox.

When I play Wario against the trios I mentioned above, I feel extremely limited. My only safe approach is Dair, therefore making me spam it. And the only way to kill those characters is through Fsmash, Uair and the occasional Ftilt, oh and maybe a fart. Sure there are Fairs and Bairs thrown in there once in a while, but Wario can only pull few successful tricks against a good Marth, MK or GW.

Wario doesn't seem to have much potential at all. He seems like one of those "what you see is what you get" character. If I were you, I wouldn't expect anything groundbreaking from characters like Wario. To me, characters with potential for being ridiculous are ones like Olimar just simply because of his character design. Wario is just very...shallow.

But that's just my opinion. Though I sure hope something comes up in the future that completely invalidates this post, Wario is too awesome.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Wario is faster than ike, making him better(speed and a number of other things make him better than ike) radical dreamer, play the character and actually get good as Wario, or you can get the **** out and mindlesly critisize some other character you don't know **** about.

Lol, Wario is better because he's faster? Great logic. And Sonic and Captain Falcon are better than King Dedede M I RITE? Talk about mindless.

 

[Smashbros_7]

Lol, Wario is better because he's faster? Great logic. And Sonic and Captain Falcon are better than King Dedede M I RITE? Talk about mindless.

Wario is better than them because he's fast AND strong. Lol, your one of those noobs who actually think Captain Falcon is fast. I'm talking attack speed noob!

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Sorry, but Wario's "speed" and "strength" pale in comparison to others' projectiles and big hitboxes. Go troll somewhere else.

 

[Smashbros_7]

Forget you. Your a closeminded noob, who trolls in all boards. You hold your stupid views over everyone else and ASSUME that Lucas is better Ness. You actually stink at this game and need to troll somewhere else.

 

[3GOD]

To me, Wario will be at the top of mid-tier, at best. Wario is a very solid character, extremely balanced, think Captain Falcon and Samus back in the days. Too bad being balanced isn't enough in the metagame where beasts like Metaknight, Marth, and Game&Watch dominate. Of course, you can argue that people like Hugs and Isai takes these balanced characters to the top, but when was the last time you see a Samus or Captain Falcon consistently win against a Marth or a Fox.

When I play Wario against the trios I mentioned above, I feel extremely limited. My only safe approach is Dair, therefore making me spam it. And the only way to kill those characters is through Fsmash, Uair and the occasional Ftilt, oh and maybe a fart. Sure there are Fairs and Bairs thrown in there once in a while, but Wario can only pull few successful tricks against a good Marth, MK or GW.

Wario doesn't seem to have much potential at all. He seems like one of those "what you see is what you get" character. If I were you, I wouldn't expect anything groundbreaking from characters like Wario. To me, characters with potential for being ridiculous are ones like Olimar just simply because of his character design. Wario is just very...shallow.

But that's just my opinion. Though I sure hope something comes up in the future that completely invalidates this post, Wario is too awesome.

One of the better stated opinions in this topic. I agree in large part that Wario is pretty well balanced, but not necessarily high tier material. He certainly has tough matches against Marth, MK, and G&W.

But I disagree with Wario being shallow at all. My Wario at least plays in a style that opponents rarely "get what they see." In other words, I think Wario's moveset makes him unpredictable. The Bite and surprise wafts can really catch your opponents off guard just for a couple of examples. Yes you should spam Dair a lot since it's an amazing move, but he has several tricks that make him the most fun character to play IMO.

Personally, I find Marth and to a lesser extent MK and G&W very shallow and boring. Yes they are awesome and have really good spammable moves, but I just can find any pleasure in repeatedly using Fair as Marth. If you haven't already, watch Futile (Wario) vs DSF (Marth) and tell me which character seems more shallow (not that you ever claimed Marth was a deep character).

My idea of a "what you see is what you get" character would be Zero Suit Samus.

Anyway, I like your overall tone - several people in this thread (including Wario supporters) could take a lesson from your style of posting.

 

[handsockpuppet]

I don't expect Wario to be god tier. I believe he should be in lower-middle or higher-low. he is not a "what you see is what you get" character (i believe an example of that is bowser). Wario is more then meats the eye. one may look at him and see a slow, short ranged, somewhat powerful character that will just be another kirby (from melee). however, I've grown to see him as a fast, combo-maniac that has the potential to be high tier, if only people would choose him instead of the sword characters (Marth, MK, Pit, Ike).

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Forget you. Your a closeminded noob, who trolls in all boards. You hold your stupid views over everyone else and ASSUME that Lucas is better Ness. You actually stink at this game and need to troll somewhere else.

Lol, yeah I could just as easily tell you that you suck at this game.

This topic isn't about Lucas being better than Ness, but Lucas camps better, approaches better, controls space better, is more versatile across different stages, kills better, recovers better, and stacks up against the rest of the cast better.

I like Wario, but characters don't become high or even mid tier just because character fanboys want them to be. They need to stack up well against the rest of the cast.

 

[k4polo]

From what I seen of Wario. Him being low tier is very very low. He looks like mid-mid tier to me. He has the best aerial fake outs of the game and this puts him at mid tier.

 

[Smashbros_7]

Lol, yeah I could just as easily tell you that you suck at this game.

This topic isn't about Lucas being better than Ness, but Lucas camps better, approaches better, controls space better, is more versatile across different stages, kills better, recovers better, and stacks up against the rest of the cast better.

I like Wario, but characters don't become high or even mid tier just because character fanboys want them to be. They need to stack up well against the rest of the cast.

I don't think Wario is a good character because I like him(in fact I dislike him). I think he's a good character because he combo's well, can kill well and is heavy. Brawl isn't all about spacing an camping you know. Alot of the things you said about Ness and Lucas are biased. Ness controls the air and combos way better than Lucas. He also has a better PK2 and can kill well with his back throw. Lucas and ness both have predictable killers(Unlike Wario) but at least ness has an unshieldable one.

PS: If anyone sucks it's you. From what I've read, you seem like a player who camps the whole match until you can kill your opponent by spamming fsmashes with your c-stick. If you win by doing so, then you must be playing people as bad as you.

 

[Drezel]

Wario is more then meats the eye. .

when you say "meats" are you calling wario fat???? wth hes not fat *******...hes fluffy

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Actually Brawl pretty much is about shooting stuff and abusing oversized hitboxes. That's why the current speculation for the game's high tier characters include Marth, Metaknight, Rob, Snake, Toon Link, Falco, Ice Climbers and King Dedede.

I play with people who were competent Melee players, the most well known of which include Snap, MrGanondorf and HugQ. HugQ beat MikeHaze in tournament in January. Snap has taken games off of players like DSF and Mango in tournament and beaten players like Lucky and SilentSpectre in friendlies. I also play with less well known people who are also good. Granted, they were good players at Melee, but the skill does carry over to an extent.

 

[Smashbros_7]

Brawl isn't Melee. Ranged users aren't the best.
And Toon Link doesn't have oversized hitboxes. Look, your friends may be famous, but you aren't. In fact your just some lowly troll with a terrible avatar.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

I have the experience of playing with high level players; you don't.

Projectiles and large hitboxes are far more important in Brawl than they were in Melee given the reduction in movement options.

This was purely gameplay/tier discussion for me. You're the troll who turned it into personal attacks.

 

[Tin]

Brawl isn't Melee. Ranged users aren't the best.
And Toon Link doesn't have oversized hitboxes. Look, your friends may be famous, but you aren't. In fact your just some lowly troll with a terrible avatar.

lol

Seriously?

 

[Smashbros_7]

I have the experience of playing with high level players; you don't.

Projectiles and large hitboxes are far more important in Brawl than they were in Melee given the reduction in movement options.

This was purely gameplay/tier discussion for me. You're the troll who turned it into personal attacks.

There are way more movement options in brawl. Its the gameplay has become slower. Slower gameplay means easier to dodge projectiles. Brawl is about getting your opponent to higher percentages quickly and then killing them with something unexpected. With the new air dodge, spot dodge and catching mechanic, hit boxes and projectiles aren't as much as a nuisance. Diddy has the pop gun(which sucks) and the banana(which isn't spammible and is catchable)but he's still high tier even without an oversized hit box. Diddy is high because he combos well like Wario and Ness. Camping helps but it's not everything.

 

[jwkirby64]

Without a projectile, a wario player is forced to dodge the projectiles whilst approaching or hope for a lucky "bike" in. The problem is that other ppl have the same advantages as you do in multiple air dodges and whatnot so it may be difficult to approach those with projectiles (pit). Wario also has only 1 good smash (the other ones have either too much ending lag or needs to be sweetspotted) Without his bike his recovery is ridiculously gimped.

Of course he has some good sides too: crazy aerial DI, aerial tilts that combo/kill/damage/sex spin?, and his recovery is ridiculously sexy with his bike. Bite is like the anti mortar slide, hydroplaning, etc. etc. etc.

overall yos he still has potential, but it may be hard for us in the process of maximizing him.

does this make him top tier? http://youtube.com/watch?v=MxzirJ2cuNI

 

[Illussionary]

Without a projectile, a wario player is forced to dodge the projectiles whilst approaching or hope for a lucky "bike" in. The problem is that other ppl have the same advantages as you do in multiple air dodges and whatnot so it may be difficult to approach those with projectiles (pit). Wario also has only 1 good smash (the other ones have either too much ending lag or needs to be sweetspotted) Without his bike his recovery is ridiculously gimped.

Of course he has some good sides too: crazy aerial DI, aerial tilts that combo/kill/damage/sex spin?, and his recovery is ridiculously sexy with his bike. Bite is like the anti mortar slide, hydroplaning, etc. etc. etc.

overall yos he still has potential, but it may be hard for us in the process of maximizing him.

does this make him top tier? http://youtube.com/watch?v=MxzirJ2cuNI

Biking in is easy, and when you say he only has one good smash I lol'd because he is very fortunate some characters in this game don't even have a good smash. I also felt that when you addressed his up+B I lol'd again again, because would you have to use his up+B in the first place except for damage?

Thats just my 2 cents.

 

[jwkirby64]

Biking in is easy, and when you say he only has one good smash I lol'd because he is very fortunate some characters in this game don't even have a good smash. I also felt that when you addressed his up+B I lol'd again again, because would you have to use his up+B in the first place except for damage?

Thats just my 2 cents.

Biking in can get you shield grabbed, u'll have to do it at random times but the start up is pretty easy to spot. Ye he is fortunate to even have 1 good smash, but its not like every character we fight will have no good smash. up+B last resort recover when you get knocked off the bike. I never said you always will be in that situation, but when you are u are screwed. I'm not underestimating wario, I play him for some weird reasons, but compared to the top/higher tiers he has a harder time. Not saying we will always lose, just it's tough. Our rolls aren't quick hops either, just a rolling cocoon.

 

[PhantomX]

Biking in can get you shield grabbed, u'll have to do it at random times but the start up is pretty easy to spot. Ye he is fortunate to even have 1 good smash, but its not like every character we fight will have no good smash. up+B last resort recover when you get knocked off the bike. I never said you always will be in that situation, but when you are u are screwed. I'm not underestimating wario, I play him for some weird reasons, but compared to the top/higher tiers he has a harder time. Not saying we will always lose, just it's tough. Our rolls aren't quick hops either, just a rolling cocoon.

Usually if you bust out the bike from a close enough distance when they're trying to shoot you with projectiles they won't react fast enough to shieldgrab you, or they'll have too much lag to do so. I've also found that for some reason a lot of people just won't shieldgrab, preferring to shield through it (inexperience, maybe?).

And his UP+B is alright if you place yourself correctly, I usually try to end it either just above the stage (hitting them and landing on it simultaneously if I am able) to grab the ledge before they can hit me.

However, since Tier Lists are more popularity contests than anything, there's a pretty good chance that he'll be placed fairly low. He doesn't have the advantage of the disjointed hitboxes of swordies, nor does he have any projectils, which'll turn off many players... he's also not "aesthetically pleasing" to the majority (who are lame for not noticing his awesomness). On rankings of how fun they are to play... Wario will always be God Tier, however :D

 

[Radical Dreamer]

You can be shot, grabbed, and smashed off the bike.

 

[Smashbros_7]

You can be shot, grabbed, and smashed off the bike.

You can only be hit off the bike with strong projectiles and large disjointed hit box moves. Besides you should always drive your bike off the stage or eat so you can recover.

 

[Looper]

i sure as heck hope he's low tier, i like using a character that isn't easy to be instantly good with, and isn't used by everyone

 

[handsockpuppet]

i sure as heck hope he's low tier, i like using a character that isn't easy to be instantly good with, and isn't used by everyone

i agree. but more then just an easy character, I ate using someone that is completelyv used by everyone. I would like some Wario love among people, but I don't necessarily want everyone to pick him up.

 

[Radical Dreamer]

Projectiles and large disjointed hitboxes? Yeah those are pretty good in Brawl.

Pit's arrows and anything stronger can knock Wario off his bike.

 

[PhantomX]

You're pretty safe from Pit's arrows as long as you're popping a wheelie, unless they wanna redirect it around the entire map. The dangerous projectiles are the explosive ones.

 

[handsockpuppet]

I kept getting kicked off the bike by Ike's Usmash

 

[Smashbros_7]

Pit's arrows only work on wario on his bike at max charge.

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

I think wario just has much, much better options than the motorcycle..which gets me thinking on why you guys are arguing over it. Its only useful against braindead spammy opponents and for recovery. Somewhat edgegaurd too, but its not a main use.

 

[cyclops4ever]

thank you deff! thank you sooo much! get over the bike people! its a decent recovery if you dont get punked off on the way up. i really hope i play against one of youbike spammers in the future...you will get destroyed and pooted on.