Steepest & flattest character learning curves

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
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United States of Russia
#41
No one's including :4link: in top 5 hardest?
https://smashboards.com/threads/the-comprehensive-guide-to-links-ats.400585/
The Bombslide (Generally)
Video Tutorial: https://youtu.be/DhzbRqRL3Qw Note however that you can hit Up on the joystick earlier when using the A-stick for the second throw input (see below). Everything else in the video should be correct.
Practical Demonstration: https://youtu.be/Zps1BuLB6ys
This tech is rather complicated so I'll have to do things differently. In this section I will talk about things that apply to all variations of the bomb slide and then further down I'll talk about each variation separately. [If you use a different character, then I can guarantee you that some of the information provided below will not apply to you.]
Description Generally: Link will dash in one direction, slide while throwing the bomb, and then depending on your timing, he may then do a fake throw, i.e. move his arm as if he were throwing a bomb only the bomb has already been thrown previously.
How to Perform Generally: The basic elements of this tech involve inputting a dash throw i.e. throwing the bomb while running, then in the initial frames of that dash throw you input the command to throw the bomb a second time, and then either on the same frame as the second throw input or on a frame soon after (still within the first six frames of the dash throw) moving the joystick generally upwards such that it registers as a fully extended upwards command, and this upwards input is what cancels the dash throw animation, replacing it with the second throw's animation, but keeping the momentum from the dash throw on the frame that the dash throw animation was canceled.
Note Generally: I will refer to the first throw as the 'dash throw'. When speaking in general terms I will refer to the second throw as the 'second throw', otherwise I will use the name and/or input for the specific throw which, coming right after the dash throw, will obviously be the second throw. The upwards input that cancels the dash throw animation and activates the bombslide will be referred to separately as the 'activating upwards input' even if it is done on the same frame as the second throw. It is critical for me to note at this point that for most of the bombsliding methods mentioned in this thread it is strongly advised that you turn tap-jump off. This is because what is required is an upwards input in order to activate the bombslide, not a jump input. Therefore, it is easiest to get around this if you simply turn tap-jump off. There are of course ways to get around this problem if you are really attached to your tap-jump; if you don't use tap-jump anyway, feel free to skip to the next section.
One way to get around the tap-jump issue is to simply not use the joystick for the upwards input, but this is only possible for one bombslide, i.e. the Up-throw bombslide with Z for the Dash throw then C-stick up for the Up-throw. The other way to get around it revolves around a quirk related to the A-stick. If you hold the C-stick in any direction you will be unable to use the joystick for movement inputs; if you hold the A-stick in any direction your joystick movement options will still be available, but notably, and this is the whole point, if you hold the A-stick in any direction, you will be unable to tap-jump. What this means is that so long as the A-stick is held in a given direction, the upwards input on the joystick will register as the activating input regardless of whether tap-jump is on or off. The A-stick can be held as part of the bombslide input itself, or it can simply be held prior to performing the bombslide, and so long as the A-stick is held while the activating upwards input is used, all bombslides are possible.
Button Inputs: Due to the fact that there are multiple ways to throw a bomb, there are multiple ways of performing this tech each with their own pros and cons. At the end of this general section I'll recommend which buttons to use for what bombslides, but for now we'll just examine each button input separately.
C-stick (set to smash): This is great for doing the second throw input if you want to do an Up-throw but terrible for doing the dash throw input. If you use it for the up-throw input you won't have to bother with the activating upwards input because the c-stick will do it for you. In other words, c-stick allows you to keep tap-jump on if you wish. One other notable reason why c-stick up is great for the second throw input is because unlike (most of) the joystick methods, the second throw input can be done on the very next frame after the dash throw, i.e. frame 2 of the dash throw animation. That is to say, if you are using a joystick up-throw input method (other than A + B which you can read about below), it is technically possible to be too fast with the input for the second throw; e.g. if you use grab to do the dash throw then attack to do the second throw on frame 2 of the dash throw, the bombslide cannot be activated. But that's as far as the benefits of using the c-stick go. The main reason why you wouldn't want to use the c-stick set to smash for your second throw input is because you will be restricted to doing two variations of the bombslide; the bombslide up-throw and the bombslide up-throw fake-out. As for using the C-stick to do the dash throw part, it is utterly terrible for two reasons. First, the c-stick will invalidate any joystick inputs so long as it isn't in neutral, meaning that the following second throw input which requires the joystick can be messed up if the C-stick isn't immediately returned to neutral. Secondly, there has to be a gap of at least one frame in-between the C-stick dash throw input and the second throw input. If you try to let the c-stick go and input your second throw on the very next frame, the bombslide cannot be activated.
Attack Button: Note that with all button inputs, you cannot use two of the same thing without a gap of at least one frame in-between. So if you set two buttons to 'attack' you would need to make sure you have let go of the first attack button before pressing the second attack button... which is really bad (I won't be making this point again, but know that it applies to every button). If the attack button is used for the dash throw input, then the grab button and the A-stick (i.e. c-stick set to attack) will not work properly for the second throw input as there must be a gap in between the two inputs in which the attack button is not being held. If attack is used for the second throw input however, it cannot be used on the first frame of the dash throw.
Grab Button: Regardless of what you use for the dash throw input, if you use the grab button for the 'up-throw' input, it will mess everything up as there needs to be a gap as mentioned above. However it doesn't have this issue for being used as the dash throw input. In fact if you use the grab button for the dash throw input, you can continue to hold it while you use either the attack button or the a-stick to do the second throw input. Note however that when you do this, there must be at least a 1 frame gap between the grab input and the attack/a-stick input because grab is essentially shield plus attack on the first frame (and only shield thereafter if held) and if you inputted either attack or the a-stick on the following frame, the game would interpret this as if the attack input was never released and so it would not recognise two separate throw inputs.
A-stick: It's main purpose is to be used as the second throw input after the dash throw (where the dash throw should be done using grab because the A-stick cannot be used after the attack button). Though it can also potentially be used as the dash throw input, having the same qualities as Grab where the attack input will only register for one frame and if held will mitigate the affects of tap-jump being left on. If you point the a-stick upwards when inputting the second throw, it will not behave like the c-stick and you will still have to use the joystick for the activating upwards input to actually activate the bombslide. If used as the second throw input, non fake-out bombslides are impossible, which can be good for the sake of consistency if that's the type of bombslide you want. What's more, it's brilliant for doing just that. It makes the back-throw, Forward-throw and Down-throw fake outs very easy to perform. Essentially using the A-stick for the second throw input frees up the joystick to do whatever it wants, notably, it actually allows the activating upwards input to be held before the second throw input. Essentially, you can hit grab to do the dash throw, then hit and hold up on the joystick, then hit the a-stick in any direction (cannot be used on the frame before; note also that you can hit and hold up on this frame too if you want), then on the following frame assuming you're still holding up on the joystick, the game will interpret it as a fresh upwards activating input used automatically on the frame after the a-stick input. This works because the a-stick input interrupts the joystick input for one frame. This is the one time where you'll want to use the upwards activating input before the second throw input.
Attack + Special: In smash 4 there is the new function of being able to use smash attacks with an attack plus special input. What this means for the bombslide is that you can use the attack button for the dash throw input and then as long as you continue to hold the attack button, you can use the special button second throw input. [This will not work with the b-stick (c-stick set to special).] There is one amazing thing about using this particular method for bombsliding. The A + B method allows you to do the second throw input on frame one of the dash throw animation, much like the c-stick, only now you're free to do any second throw that you wish, not just upwards, and the activating upwards input remains a separate input, which opens up many bombslides that are otherwise impossible. Because of the extra frame granted it makes non-fake out variations of the bombslide much easier. This will be explained later in the specific bombsliding sections.
More Notes Generally: The distance you slide and the type of bombslide you do is reliant on the timing of the second throw. If you use the c-stick or the Attack + Special method to do the second throw of the bombslide on frame 2 of the dash throw and on the same frame activate the bombslide with an upward input (automatically done with c-stick up), you will get a non-fake out bombslide and slide the furthest. If you use any input (other than a-stick) to do the second throw on the second or third frame of the dash throw and you do the activating upwards input on the third frame, you will get a non-fake out bombslide and slide a long way. If you use any input for the second throw on the second, third or fourth frame of the dash throw (note that attack and a-stick cannot be used on the second frame of the dash throw and note also that in this case you would be restricted to using the a-stick on third frame because the upwards activating input cannot be registered on the same frame), and you activate the bombslide with an upwards input on the fourth frame, you will get a fake out variation of the bombslide and will slide slightly less. Activating the bombslide with an upwards input on the fifth and sixth frames you'll get a fake out bombslide and slide less again; on the seventh frame you won't cancel the dash throw at all and you will have failed to bombslide.
Optimal Button Inputs: When performing non-fake out bombslides, you'll want to use the A + B input method unless you have the C-stick and you're only interested in doing the Up-throw variation. When performing the fake out bombslides you'll want to use grab to dash throw, on the following frame hit and hold up on the joystick, then on the following frame hit the a-stick in the desired direction to do the second throw (hitting it down on the a-stick gives the fastest fake out).

Bombslide Up-throw
Description: Link will dash forwards with a bomb then get a boost of momentum and slide forwards while throwing the bomb up.
How to Perform: Pull out a bomb, input a dash in any direction, after the initial frames of the dash (because if you try to do a dash throw within the initial frames of a dash it will just do a standing throw; won't say again) use one of the buttons mentioned above to do a dash throw then use one of the other button inputs that is compatible with the first to do an Up-throw input within the first three frames of the dash throw animation. This Up-throw input will count as the activating upwards input.
Note: This is great for closing space if you want to get under your opponent. It's also a decent retreating option seeing as it gives you a boost of speed and throws the bomb upwards which will later come back down and could limit your opponent's approach options or release you from a grab or start/continue a combo etc.

Bombslide Up-throw Fake Out
Description: Link will dash forward with a bomb, get a boost of momentum and slide forwards while throwing the bomb forwards then immediately do an up-throw animation without a bomb.
How to Perform: Pull out a bomb, dash in any direction, do a dash throw, then do an up-throw in the later frames of the dash throw animation (i.e. frames 4, 5 or 6) and unless you're using the a-stick for the up-throw, this upthrow input will count as the activating upwards input which in any case must be inputted within frames 4 to 6. The Up-throw fake out will still work if you were holding upwards before making the input for the second throw because on the frame that you do the second throw the game will also recognise the upwards input. Note that this is still a very quick input even though it is frame 4 to 6 of the dash throw, and it is only considered 'later' in comparison to the non-fake out variations. The 'dash throw animation' only includes the part where Link actually throws the bomb and does not include the period of time after in which you still cannot otherwise act and Link is pulling up from the effort of the dash throw.
Note: This is a common variation among Link mains mostly because it's easy, but it isn't the best way to throw a bomb forwards and slide forwards. All the Bombslide Fake Outs are pretty good for the purposes of approaching because they use the throw frame data of a dash throw, which means that the bomb is thrown much sooner which means it goes ahead of you and protects you while you slide. Approaching with Bombslides that throw the bomb forwards is especially good in smash 4 due to the fact that if the bomb activates on the opponent's hurtbox, the bomb blast will not hurt Link. Note that when doing fake out versions of the bombslide, if you input upwards to cancel the dash throw on the very last frame (frame 6) you will notice a significant difference in how far you slide as you will only slide half of the distance compared to cancelling on frames 4 or 5 (won't say again).

Bombslide Tilt Up-throw
Description: Link will dash forward then lightly throw a bomb upwards while sliding forwards.
How to Perform: This is only possible with the A + B method. Pull out a bomb, dash forwards, hit and hold the attack button to do a dash throw, then on the frame after (i.e. frame 2 of the dash throw) lightly tilt the joystick diagonally backwards and upwards and hit special, then on the frame after that (i.e. frame 3 of the dash throw which has not been cancelled yet) hit all the way upwards on the joystick to activate the bombslide.
Note: If you're too late with the upwards input you'll just get an up-throw fake out. And no, lightly tilting the joystick just upwards or diagonally forwards and upwards when inputting the tilted throw upwards on the first frame of the dash throw does not work. This bombslide can be used to make the bomb land without exploding on the top platform of battlefield, otherwise it will obviously come back down and explode on the ground much sooner than a normal bombslide up-throw, which under the right circumstances can be more useful.

Bombslide Back-throw
Description: Link will dash forward with a bomb then he will turn around and throw the bomb back in the direction he came from while sliding a long way in the original direction he was running.
How to Perform 1: This is the easier and newer way to perform this tech, and it requires the A + B input method.
Pull out a bomb, dash in any direction, hit and hold attack to do a dash throw, then on the very next frame (i.e. frame 2 of the dash throw) hit backwards on the joystick and hit special, then on the very next frame (i.e. frame 3 of the dash throw which has not been cancelled yet) hit the joystick upwards.
How to Perform 2: You input the dash throw as normal, then, using a joystick method for the second throw (i.e. either grab then attack, or A + B), tilt the joystick diagonally backwards and just the slightest bit further down from the indent (on a GC controller), and input the second bomb throw on frame 2 or 3 of the dash throw animation (only frame 3 works for the Grab then Attack input method). The activating upwards input will be included in the diagonal joystick input.
Note: The joystick precision required for the second way to perform this tech made this tech far too impractical for the longest time. Because of the fact that the second throw could only be performed on the second frame of the dash throw with the old grab + attack input method, this meant that the joystick had to do two things on the same frame; direct the throw and activate the bombslide. This joystick precision is no longer required as the A + B method allows for the second throw to be done on frame 2 of the dash throw which in turn allows for the joystick inputs to be broken up into a simple backwards and then upwards on the following frame. This doesn't make it super easy or anything, but it is now practical enough to be used with practice. You'll want to do all the inputs almost as if they are one input, with the joystick doing a quick flick backwards into a quick quarter-circle upwards. It is by far Link's best retreating tool, like a retreating JC throw on steroids.

Bombslide Back-throw Fake Out
Description: Link dashes forward with a bomb, slides forwards while throwing the bomb forwards then turns around during the slide and does a fake throw back in the direction he came from, making him slide backwards in the direction of the thrown bomb.
How to Perform 1: You can do the exact same thing as above only delay it slightly, e.g. with the first 'how to perform' mentioned above you'd have more time to move the joystick upwards and activate the bombslide, which in turn would give you more time to do the 'back-throw' input. So long as the activating upwards input is done on frame 4, 5, or 6, you'll get a bombslide back-throw fake out. Note that the same goes for the 'how to perform 2' above, but that one's terrible anyway.
How to Perform 2: Use the Grab button to perform a dash throw, hit the A-stick backwards and hit upwards to activate the bombslide on frame 4, 5, or 6 of the dash throw. If you're using this variation you are allowed to hold up before doing the second throw input with the A-stick and it will still register as an upwards activating input on the same frame that you do the second throw input, which can make it much easier to perform as you can instantly move the joystick upwards after inputting the grab button without having to worry about timing it.
Note: The second method is much easier, and incidentally, if you're using the a-stick you cannot do non-fake out bombslides as the earliest that you can hit the a-stick and still bombslide is on frame 3 of the dash throw, and the earliest that the upwards input will register and activate the bombslide is on the following frame, which at best will be frame 4 of the dash throw, meaning only fake out bombslides are possible. This could be seen as a bad or a good thing, but regardless of that, the a-stick method is most certainly very easy and allows you to do this bombslide variation consistently with minimal practice. The benefits of this variation are that you can immediately use Bairs if the bomb hits or use Bairs to retreat if it misses. Also, if you use it right up close to the opponent (without getting the frame 6 cancel), you can use it to cross-up the opponent, i.e. quickly get behind them where you can immediately jab or grab etc. All the bombslides can be used for this purpose of course, but this one turns you around and unlike the bombslide back-throw, this one is easy to perform (though come to think of it, if you're up for it, you may as well attempt to use bombslide back throws for the purposes of crossing up, because if you mess up the timing you'll get this fake out version anyway, and if you happen to get it right you'll slide much farther and throw the bomb back at them as you cross them up).

Bombslide Soft Throw
Description: Link will dash forwards then slide in the direction of his initial dash while turning around and soft throwing the bomb back in the direction that he came from, and then the bomb will land safely on the ground without exploding.
How to Perform: This can only be done with the A + B input method. Pull out a bomb, dash forwards, hit and hold attack to do a dash throw, then on the following frame (i.e. frame 2 of the dash throw) lightly tilt the joystick backwards and hit special, then on the following frame (i.e. frame 3 of the dash throw which of course has not been cancelled yet), hit the joystick upwards to activate the bombslide.
Note: This is one of if not the most difficult bombslides to perform, but the benefits of it are all too obvious. Already, as a movement option for the purposes of retreating or crossing up the opponent, the bombslide back-throw is incredible, then you add on the aforementioned benefits of the Soft Throw tech? It's sublime.

Bombslide Forward-throw
Description: Link will dash forwards then slide forwards while throwing the Bomb forwards.
How to Perform 1: Similar to the Bombslide Back-throw only easier to perform as the joystick doesn't have to be brought all the way over to the other side real quick. This way can only be done with the A + B method. Pull a bomb, dash forwards (and continue to hold forwards), hit and hold attack to do the dash throw, on the following frame (frame 2 of the dash throw) while still holding forwards hit special, then on the following frame (frame 3 of the dash throw) hit diagonally up and forwards on the joystick (just far enough up to activate the bombslide).
How to Perform 2: Input the dash throw as normal, then aim the joystick diagonally forwards and upwards and just the slightest bit further down from the indent and input the second throw on frame 2 or 3 of the dash throw animation (only the A + B method can do so on frame 2).
Note: Using the Attack + Special input method makes this much easier to perform. There is a distinct advantage to be gained from doing this bombslide variation. It is one of the two best ways to throw a bomb forwards while sliding forwards. Because the throw animation is started earlier than any fake out bombslide, this means that the throwing animation will also end sooner than all fake out bombslides (except for the down-throw fake out). It also gives the greatest slide forwards out of all the bombslides that throw the bomb forwards, and it has the least amount of lag in between when the bomb is actually thrown and when you are able to act after it, though this is gained by delaying when the bomb is actually thrown which means you won't be protected while sliding.

Bombslide Forward-throw Fake Out
Description: Link will dash forwards then slide forwards while throwing the bomb forwards and then he'll instantly do another throw forwards which is technically a fake-out.
How to Perform 1: You can either do the same as above only delay the timing such that the bombslide is being activated on frames 4 to 6, or
How to Perform 2: Dash forwards with a Bomb, do a dash throw with grab, then hit the a-stick forwards (preferably on frame 3), and finally input upwards in the joystick during the part of the dash throw animation (frames 4 to 6) in which Link's arm is level with him or out in-front throwing the bomb. Note again that by using this method you can hold upwards before hitting the A-stick.
Note: Some people may wonder what's the difference between doing this and doing an Up-throw Fake Out. The truth is there isn't any difference other than the animation, and I personally prefer the Up-throw fake out animation. They slide the same distance, the bombs travel the same distance, and they have the same amount of lag too. Neither is the optimal Fake Out variation however. That award goes to the bombslide down-throw fake out.

Bombslide Down-throw
Description: Link dashes forwards with a bomb, then slides forwards while throwing the bomb at his feet. If the bomb doesn't hit an opponent's hurtbox or shield, and the bomb isn't a custom bomb, Link will be damaged by the explosion.
How to Perform: This is only possible with the A + B method. Pull a bomb, dash forward, hit and hold attack to do a dash throw, then on the following frame (frame 2 of the dash throw) hit downwards on the joystick and hit special, then on the following frame (frame 3 of the dash throw) hit up on the joystick to activate the bombslide.
Note: This is probably more something you'd want to be doing with custom bombs. It is the quickest bombslide, and it gives you the same huge boost of a non-fake out bombslide, so in terms of a sheer movement option, this is the best. It could be amazing for crossing up the opponent, and if you're using a custom bomb the bomb will bounce which sets up a wall if you're retreating and then lends itself to being caught with an aerial, which in turn can be used for 'meteor bomb cancelling'. It's a difficult yet potentially very beneficial bombslide that may need to be looked into further.

Bombslide Down-throw Fake Out
Description: Link dashes forward with a Bomb, slides forward while throwing the bomb forward, then spazzes out (he does the animation of throwing the bomb down without a bomb).
How to Perform 1: Either do the above only delay the inputs slightly, or
How to Perform 2: Do a dash throw then hit the a-stick downwards (preferably on frame 3) then hit the joystick upwards so that it activates the bombslide on frames 4 to 6 of the dash throw animation, i.e. very quickly but not literally instantly. (Again, by using the A-stick method, holding upwards on the joystick before hitting the A-stick will activate the bombslide on the frame that the A-stick is inputted, which can help to get that longer slide that you want.)
Note: The second way to perform this AT is easier. The Down-throw fake out is equal second alongside the Bombslide Forward throw as the best way to slide forwards while throwing the bomb forwards, and it is the undisputed best fake out bombslide, meaning it is also the best bombslide to use for approaching. It's not that difficult using the a-stick method either. Basically, the reason why this bombslide is so good is because the down throw animation is two frames faster than any other throwing animation, which means that the potential two frames gained by the bombslide forward throw over the other fake out variations having to start their throwing animations two frames later is equaled by the two frames saved by doing the down-throw fake out. Comparing it to the bombslide forward throw, the bombslide down throw fake out is easier to perform and has a shorter slide forwards, but that slide forwards is covered by the bomb being thrown early by the dash throw.

Bombslide Fringe Flick Fake Out (Item Discard Fake Out)
Description: Link will dash forwards with a bomb, throw a bomb forwards then slide after it while fixing his hair.
How to Perform 1: Do a dash throw with the grab button and hold it, then hit the a-stick perfectly diagonally in any direction (preferably on frame 3) and hit the joystick upwards so that it activates the bombslide within frames 4 to 6 of the dash throw.
How to Perform 2: Do a dash throw with the grab button and hold it, then with the joystick in neutral hit attack (preferably on frame 3 of the dash throw animation), then on frame 4 to 6 hit upwards on the joystick to activate the bombslide. Alternatively, you can hold upwards on the joystick before hitting the A-stick diagonally, just as long as you are still holding it by the time you hit the A-stick.
Note: While it may look like Link is just fixing his hair real quick before going into battle, he is technically doing the animation for throwing larger items (like the baseball bat or beam sword) behind him from a standing position (by pressing grab). This is by far the most stylish of all the bombslides. Why should you do this over the down-throw fake out? For style points and combo video material. In terms of frame data, the item discard fake out actually has the most lag, so it is the worst bombslide. Normally this animation cannot be done with a bomb, but the bombslide tricks the game into letting Link do it because he is doing an item animation without holding the bomb any more, and so the rule in the game that says that certain items such as the bomb cannot be 'discarded' no longer applies. Characters like Ike who have a longer dash throw animation can actually do the 'non-fake out item discard slide' if they are holding e.g. a beam sword, but the same exact input that allows Ike to do this does not work for items such as bombs.
 

UnknownM

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 8, 2018
Messages
41
#42
Imo the easiest are -
:4mario:
:4cloud:
(:4marth:,:4lucina:)
:4kirby:
(:4corrin:,:4corrinf:)

Then the hardest would be -
:4shulk:
:4peach:
(:4robinm:,:4robinf:)
:4pacman:
:4megaman:

I think handling Robin's Specials, Aerials, and Smash makes them difficult to master, expecially with that abysmal speed.
 

Routa

Smash Lord
Joined
May 14, 2015
Messages
1,200
Location
Loimaa, Finland
#43
It is hard to tell which characters are "hard" or "easy", but I will share my opinion.

Simple:
:4myfriends::4miibrawl::4ryu::4ganondorf::4yoshi:

Complex:
:4samus::4pikachu::4sheik::4greninja::4link:

I will open up my reasoning later once I'm home from tournament.
 
Joined
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North Carolina
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2836-0624-6177
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SW 0903-5888-6097
#44
To me what defines a hard character to learn is a character that takes you out of your comfort zone. It can be many things depending on the player. For me it's slow characters (specifically Ganondorf and Bowser) and characters with small hit-boxes (Wii Fit Trainers's F-air and Zero Suit Samus's B-air). Other than that I think that players are quick to label unusual attacks and special moves as difficult since it may be vastly difference from what they consider normal in smash; it's like an immediate turn-off for them.

-

As for directional inputs, I think those are only seen as an execution barrier to players who are unfamiliar with them. Once you get the hang of it, it can become muscle memory. All of the directional inputs that Ryu use in Smash 4 (quarter-circle input, half-circle, and dragon punch) are used in other FGC games as a base to help tread familiar ground.

Like Baby_Sneak said, you can play Ryu without using his directional inputs. I think the only reason that some players are even bother to learn them is because Ryu causes conversation and gets results. I also think that the reason we say that Ryu is hard to play only because of directional inputs is due to players constantly saying it and very few going to fact-check.

I just checked Kurogane Hammer for Shoryuken details. The only difference between the two is that the default only gives Ryu intangibility from frames 3-5 while the "true" version gives Ryu intanginility from frames 1-6. Executing the input also gives a 2% damage buff along with some decimal numbers. That's it.

I chose not to play Ryu in Smash 4 once I realized that I could not play his footsies game like I did in Street Fighter 4 and Street Fighter X Tekken and because Ryu cannot B-Reverse Tatsumaki Senpukyaku, true input or
 

Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
13,516
Location
United States of Russia
#46
I just checked Kurogane Hammer for Shoryuken details. The only difference between the two is that the default only gives Ryu intangibility from frames 3-5 while the "true" version gives Ryu intanginility from frames 1-6. Executing the input also gives a 2% damage buff along with some decimal numbers. That's it.
That's significant. You turn an average move into something that breaks out of anything not a true combo and kills maybe 10-15% earlier.
 

DunnoBro

The Free-est
Joined
Nov 28, 2005
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College Park, MD
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DunnoBro
#47
Mario's pretty easy, but I think the demand to learn JC Reverse Usmash keeps him a hair harder than Cloud, Bowser, DK, etc. Probably around the same level as Ryu or Mewtwo.
 

MERPIS

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
1,635
Location
Prince Edward Island
NNID
Catboog
Switch FC
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
#48
Easiest:
1: :4mario:
2::4pit:/:4dk:
3::4myfriends:
4::4cloud2:
5::4bayonetta2:

Hardest:
1: :4megaman:
2::4olimar:
3::4sheik:
4::4shulk:/:4greninja:
5::4mewtwo:/:4metaknight:
 
Last edited:
Joined
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Messages
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#49
A character’s learning curve is going to be dependent on both their “playability” and how intuitively their gameplan interacts with their moveset.

By “playability” I mean some combination of frame data and mobility that makes a character “fun” to play. Characters like Mario are designed to have high playability, due to his quick moves, low lag, good ground to air/air to ground mobility, and balanced fall speeds. Cloud is in the same boat.

Both of them also have movesets that “flow” into each other, allowing a new player to hit an opponent and built damage in an intuitive way. Both Mario and Cloud have relatively low commitment, letting newer players throw out an occasional move without getting horrendously butchered.

Of course, both require optimizations that necessitate in depth practice at higher levels, but that doesn’t hurt their “pick up and play” status. Keep in mind that at different levels of play, some characters learning curves may become acutely steeper.

With that said, the characters with the flattest learning curves, at the beginner level would be something like:

1.) :4mario:
2.) :4cloud2:
3.) :4pit:
4.) :4yoshi:
5.) :4kirby:

For a beginner, the steepest learning curves would be something like:

1.) :4sheik: - even at the beginner level she requires a certain degree of mechanical execution, along with more in-depth understanding of game and character specific mechanics
2.) :4peach: - same here, but at least she has usable smash attacks and Fair.
3.):4mewtwo:- all that power, but tethered to a character that is basically a bigger, faster Ness with a reliance on correctly spacing with three moves or else you die. That’s before you even get to doing damage to keep up with a beginner Mario or Kirby.

After those three, it just really depends. Honestly, any character that requires resource management is going to be a challenge for a beginner to pick up. :4ryu:would be hard if you haven’t played any other fighting game.

But characters like Pac, Mega, Robin, Shulk, Bayo, Duck Hunt, Olimar, Rosa, and so range from having higher playability with complex resource usage (:4duckhunt::4pacman::4link::4shulk:) to awkward or low playability and complex resource usage (:4alph::rosalina::4bayonetta2::4megaman:).
 
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