Steepest & flattest character learning curves

Alpine

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#1
Anyone care to take a stab at it? Top 5 "hardest" and "easiest" characters for the average smash player to pick up and play efficiently?

Discuss. For research.
 

Hotcakes

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#2
Cloud and Mario are likely the 2 easiest characters to play in the game. Donkey Kong is pretty simple to pick up and play as well. Captain Falcon and Ganondorf would probably round off the top 5.
 

Guidodinho

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#3
Here my shot at the 5 hardest character to pick up, obviously highly debatable (is that how you spell that?), but it's my honest oppinion from my own experience as a (if i do say so myself) seasoned smash player.

#5 - Robin: At a totally beginners level it might be easy to run and spam projectiles like there's no tomorrow. At a higher level though, you'll need to have more understanding of his/her rather weird close range attacks with her/his different swords and all that jazz.

#4 - Olimar: This little guy really has a unique moveset and you really need to know the effects and how to use his pickmin to efficiently play him.

#3 - Bayonetta: I think most people will strongly dissagree with this one, since she's so dominant in top tier that a lot of people want to see her banned at tournaments. But after trying her out the first time, she really felt less intuitive to pick up compared to most of the cast, especially her recovery felt really clunky to use until I got the hang of it. I do agree that she's one of the strongest characters, but I definitely don't feel she's an easy character to pick up.

#2 Ryu: What makes Smash so unique compared to other fighting games, is its rather simple imputs. Then Nintendo comes in with a guy that requires those half/quarter circle and dragonpunch imputs and different timing for your button presses. Definetly takes some getting used to if not used to more traditional fighting games.

#1 Megaman: What I like about this guy is how I think that gameplay wise, he plays most similar to his source material than any other character (except for Ryu maybe), I think that most people who have played the classic Megaman 2 could agree on that. But he's not exactly the most straightforward character who does simple basic punches and kicks, oh no sir. This guy shares it's Lemon blaster with his: Jab, Forward tilt and Neutral air (wich certainly took some getting used to when I first played the demo on the 3ds), and really needs the player to be sharp when it comes to aiming and spacing, or you can get punished quite severely, like a knee moving at high speeds, inserting its justice directly into the skull.
 
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WiFi

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#5
Easiest:
1.Mario
2.Cloud
3.Lucina
4.Donkey Kong
5.Ganondorf

Hardest was harder to make but:
1. Shulk
2.Peach
3.Ryu
4.Sheik
5.Olimar Edit: Greninja and Pikachu are around 5th too.

Everybody forgets that Sheik is incredibly technical to play, and that Shulk is 5-characters in one. Pac-Man isn't too hard to play.
 
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Alpine

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#6
imo
easiest
5. Luigi
4. Cloud
3. Donkey Kong
2. Mario
1. Lucina

hardest
5. Pac Man
4. Shulk
3. Peach
2. Megaman
1. Duck Hunt
Easiest:
1.Mario
2.Cloud
3.Lucina
4.Donkey Kong
5.Ganondorf

Hardest was harder to make but:
1. Shulk
2.Peach
3.Ryu
4.Sheik
5.Olimar

Everybody forgets that Sheik is incredibly technical to play, and that Shulk is 5-characters in one. Pac-Man isn't too hard to play.
Thanks for the input, guys but more specifically referring to Peach what makes her difficult to play well? Just having the finger dexterity to pull off some of her combos mixed with float cancelling etc?
 
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#7
Hardest

Peach (as a Peach main I can relate to this one)
Shulk
Ryu
Olimar
Pac-Man
Megaman

Easiest

Cloud
Bayonetta
Mario
Sonic
Lucina
 

Lukingordex

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#9
Everybody forgets that Sheik is incredibly technical to play, and that Shulk is 5-characters in one. Pac-Man isn't too hard to play.
I don't think most people "forget" about Sheik. I'd put her on my honorable mentions list.

Could you elaborate on pac man not being that hard?
 

iCrash

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#10
I think Puff is actually one of the easiest to learn, simply because there isn't a ton of raw mechanics to get used to. Its all pretty basic and improving is mainly just improving at spacing and managing jumps and such.
 

Kaze Arashi

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#11
The 3 easiest characters to learn based on what I know:

:4mario:: Pretty obvious. He's a basic all rounder with many solid stuff. Anyone can have a good Mario because of how easy it is for Mario to adapt any play-style. He's basically fundamentals with little tech to use. The only hard thing about Mario is getting used to his range outside slow fireballs. Overall good at everything: but doesn't excel at everything.

:4cloud:: Once you realize how limit works and what cloud does, the whole neutral is a breeze. Cloud can also adapt to many kinds of play styles: Spacing, Bait and Punish or hit and run thanks to his good mobility. The only hard thing about cloud is getting back to stage since he has crap recovery. Overall: Hit but make sure limit is full at the vital point.

:4lucina:: The reason I say Lucina is easier to use than Marth is because of how she lacks tippers. The basic marth neutral is: "Just space as long you can get tippers". Lucina is different: "Just space". Learning to space with Lucina is easy because everything is a spacing tool and since you don't have tipper, it doesn't matter where you are since any hit will be a good one.



The 3 hardest characters to learn based on what I know:

:4shulk:: It's pretty common knowledge on why he's so hard to learn: Monado arts. Everything you do: offense, defense, recovery, is all reliant on what monado you're in and how effectively you use it, and when you use said monado at specific percents. Combined with his crap frame data yet large hitboxes: Shulk is in my opinion: the hardest character to master.

:4megaman:: Anyone can spam lemons and metal blades right? Well..yea. But like an archer said: "Anyone can pick up archery. Only the dedicated can master Archery."
The same quote can apply here. You can spam projectiles regardless of level, but only time and dedication can get you to know every aspect of Megaman's hidden power with his footstools, lack setups and more.

:4ryu:: As the only character with actual inputs and light/heavy moves, Ryu is as technical as actual street fighter. Every action must be embedded to memory, both mind and muscle. When to use specific inputs, light attacks, heavy attacks at what percent and where on stage.
 

WiFi

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#12
I don't think most people "forget" about Sheik. I'd put her on my honorable mentions list.

Could you elaborate on pac man not being that hard?
One of my training partners is a Pac-Man main, and a zoner main in general, and according to him Olimar is harder to play. Pac-Man doesn't have even half the advanced tech Olimar does, or even Megaman's. Also, Pac-Man has a pretty simple gameplan: Get Fruit, use Fruit, use Hydrant, run away and charge fruit, set Trampoline traps when needed. The only reason why people think Pac-Man is hard to play is because he has a garbage grab.
 
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#13
I don't think motion inputs as Ryu are hard at all. I actually think his difficulty curve is over-rated. It's not like they are something brand new but I can understand where you guys are coming from if one does not have experience with traditional fighting games. To me his inputs are second nature; there are other games that have more complex inputs than his. The same rules that were stated above still apply here, "muscle memory". Once you get accustomed to that, any execution barrier can become second nature.
 
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#14
I think with Ryu it's more how his inputs are different from the standard Smash fair, being closer to that of a traditional fighter where multiple button inputs need to be used to utilize your combos and mechanics. Whereas Smash is a simple button press granting many mechanics. In that sense he's harder to do. Peach is the most difficult on a technical level because of the fundamental mechanic of float. That's how I always saw it anyway.
 

WiFi

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#15
I don't think motion inputs as Ryu are hard at all. I actually think his difficulty curve is over-rated. It's not like they are something brand new but I can understand where you guys are coming from if one does not have experience with traditional fighting games. To me his inputs are second nature; there are other games that have more complex inputs than his. The same rules that were stated above still apply here, "muscle memory". Once you get accustomed to that, any execution barrier can become second nature.
Its also because Ryu just plays very differently from any other Smash character. They literally tore his moveset and stats from Street Fighter, and Street Fighter is more technically demanding than Smash 4, unless you play Peach, Shulk, Sheik, Olimar, or Greninja.
 
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#16
I know this won't help but I find charizard fairly easy to pick up and play.
He a classic superheavyweight with two specials with super armor and lightning fast tilts.
The fact that his aerial game is crap typically means you focus on ground game only and use aerials as little as possible.
Essentially he's a 'react to whatever your opponent does' sort of character and works really well as one at that.
 

Jamisinon

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#17
Hardest:
1) Sheik
2) Ryu
3) Shulk
4) Pacman
5) Peach

I used to think Ryu was the most technical character in the game and I asked Locus in chat who he thought was the most technical and he said Sheik so that's why I have her as 1 and Ryu as 2. Sheik's needle cancels, mid-air pivots and speed all make her pretty hard to play and she has very little room for error. Ryu of course with his moveset and true inputs. Shulk and Pac both require cycling through moves and I think proper use of Shulk's monado arts isn't the easiest thing to learn. Characters such as Mega Man or Olimar seem difficult. But projectiles in general are a little easier imo than performing quick floats and other peach specific tech. Peach is the only character I play claw when I play (outside of kirby and dedede hammer use as well but that's rare). Honorable mention to Greninja who is a poor man's Sheik as well.

Easiest:
1) Mario
2) Cloud
3) Sonic
4) Ganon
5) Falcon

Mario is very good all-around, very good magnet hands, easy combos, good speed. Cloud, self explanatory. Sonic I think is easy bc his playstyle to me is very straight forward. The only things to mix up are a dash dance and when to shield. Ganon is pretty straight forward as well and Falcon is of course a faster version.
 
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#18
Hardest:
1) Sheik
2) Ryu
3) Shulk
4) Pacman
5) Peach

I used to think Ryu was the most technical character in the game and I asked Locus in chat who he thought was the most technical and he said Sheik so that's why I have her as 1 and Ryu as 2. Sheik's needle cancels, mid-air pivots and speed all make her pretty hard to play and she has very little room for error. Ryu of course with his moveset and true inputs. Shulk and Pac both require cycling through moves and I think proper use of Shulk's monado arts isn't the easiest thing to learn. Characters such as Mega Man or Olimar seem difficult. But projectiles in general are a little easier imo than performing quick floats and other peach specific tech. Peach is the only character I play claw when I play (outside of kirby and dedede hammer use as well but that's rare). Honorable mention to Greninja who is a poor man's Sheik as well.

Easiest:
1) Mario
2) Cloud
3) Sonic
4) Ganon
5) Falcon

Mario is very good all-around, very good magnet hands, easy combos, good speed. Cloud, self explanatory. Sonic I think is easy bc his playstyle to me is very straight forward. The only things to mix up are a dash dance and when to shield. Ganon is pretty straight forward as well and Falcon is of course a faster version.
I never considered Sheik, now that I think about it Sheik is pretty difficult. Especially when you throw in how hard it is for her to get kills. Ganon is braindead too. That's one of the reasons I hate Sonic, along with him just being annoying. lmao
 

Lil Puddin

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#19
Efficiently could mean very different things. I'm going to assume you mean knowing to play a character enough to win, but not fully master them.

Top 5 easiest is kind of a toss up, so the only one in order is the 1st:
:4cloud2:(duhlmao)
:4sonic: he can just bully with extreme speed and has the perfect kit for ****ing with people.
:4mario: he's Nintendo's main mascot, so he better be beginner friendly, he has extremely useful tools with no real downsides.
:4yoshi: his kit is extremely powerful, yet he has decent bulk and speed. His downside is his range, but his speed makes up for that ofc.
:4falcon: bully with speed and power, shouldn't have issues KOing like Sheik because his moves pack some power. It helps that his entire body is basically a hitbox for some reason.


Top 5 hardest is also a toss up:
:4robinm: is absurdly slow and projectile heavy characters in this game suffer, limited uses per projectile + regen time hurts too ofc. Luckily Robin is very heavy so no ezkillstatus is nice, but Robin's kill power is really just so-so and so are the throws... Which is weird since magic/psychic characters generally have powerful throws. Robin's about managing resources and using Thunder/Arc Fire properly each time to stay safe. One screw up means all momentum is lost. Robin also has 0 heavy punishes for when people get too close (unlike Zelda, who as meh as she is, still has some scary punishes).
:4peach: very lofty and awkward without any means of drawing opponents closer, so she has to find a way in and try to stay there for as long as possible - using her float to the fullest is key and it's not an easy thing to do given her aerial speed/overall speed/low weight. Her float allows for more air shenanigans, but it also makes it so much easier to tell where she's going to be (Zelda basically gets free Lightning Kicks vs a float-happy Peach, for example).
:4shulk: is basically Cloud, but everything is slower and weaker by default. His gimmick is also worse, since instead of gaining all buffs, he gains some buffs and some penalties. Relies on hard reads to get kills or Smash for his Mondo Artes, which means one wrong move = oops ded. His gimmick has a lot of depth, and knowing which Arte to use as well as how to access the Arte ASAP is a must for performing decently. His Artes allow for more flexibility but at a cost. Hey, maybe Cloud/Mario/other extremely flexible characters with no real downsides should take some notes!
:4wiifit: hey, what happens if your entire body is a hitbox during a move? Well that move is probably going to be either awkward or short ranged! Um, why didn't Captain Falcon get the memo? Well, luckily WFT has amazing specials that are literally the only reason she's kinda viable. Her aerials and tilts have no reasonable kill power, meaning she's relying on fresh Sun Salutations or short ranged/awkward Fsmash/Usmash for reasonable KOs. She seems to be balanced around Deep Breathing, so her kill power feels "reasonable" when it's active. But. Like. Nobody's going to let her touch them after she takes the obvious 2-3 seconds to activate it.
:4jigglypuff: she has to know every opponent MU, know what they can do, so she can perfectly space her irrationally too-small hitboxes while avoiding any damage since 1) her shield breaking = instant death and 2) she's the lightest thing ever. OK! Totally doable!!! G O O D ♥ S T U F F
 

Donwiko

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#20
The easiest(IMO and with HMs):

5. :4myfriends:
4. :4ness:
3. :4sonic:
2. :4cloud:
1. :4mario:

HMs: :4dk: :4lucina: :rosalina: :4ganondorf: :4bowser:

The hardest:

5. :4fox:
4. :4ryu:
3. :4megaman:
2. :4shulk:
1. :4sheik:

HMs: :4pacman: :4marth: :4robinm: :4peach: :4pikachu:
 

WiFi

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#21
The easiest(IMO and with HMs):

5. :4myfriends:
4. :4ness:
3. :4sonic:
2. :4cloud:
1. :4mario:

HMs: :4dk: :4lucina: :rosalina: :4ganondorf: :4bowser:

The hardest:

5. :4fox:
4. :4ryu:
3. :4megaman:
2. :4shulk:
1. :4sheik:

HMs: :4pacman: :4marth: :4robinm: :4peach: :4pikachu:
Fox is pretty easy to play with basic fundamentals. He's a mix of Sheik and Mario that can kill. I wouldn't say Ness just because of his recovery. Rosalina is actually quite hard to play, with lots of micro-spacing, and Peach's tech is ridiculous.
 

Alpine

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#22
Efficiently could mean very different things. I'm going to assume you mean knowing to play a character enough to win, but not fully master them.

Top 5 easiest is kind of a toss up, so the only one in order is the 1st:
:4cloud2:(duhlmao)
:4sonic: he can just bully with extreme speed and has the perfect kit for ****ing with people.
:4mario: he's Nintendo's main mascot, so he better be beginner friendly, he has extremely useful tools with no real downsides.
:4yoshi: his kit is extremely powerful, yet he has decent bulk and speed. His downside is his range, but his speed makes up for that ofc.
:4falcon: bully with speed and power, shouldn't have issues KOing like Sheik because his moves pack some power. It helps that his entire body is basically a hitbox for some reason.


Top 5 hardest is also a toss up:
:4robinm: is absurdly slow and projectile heavy characters in this game suffer, limited uses per projectile + regen time hurts too ofc. Luckily Robin is very heavy so no ezkillstatus is nice, but Robin's kill power is really just so-so and so are the throws... Which is weird since magic/psychic characters generally have powerful throws. Robin's about managing resources and using Thunder/Arc Fire properly each time to stay safe. One screw up means all momentum is lost. Robin also has 0 heavy punishes for when people get too close (unlike Zelda, who as meh as she is, still has some scary punishes).
:4peach: very lofty and awkward without any means of drawing opponents closer, so she has to find a way in and try to stay there for as long as possible - using her float to the fullest is key and it's not an easy thing to do given her aerial speed/overall speed/low weight. Her float allows for more air shenanigans, but it also makes it so much easier to tell where she's going to be (Zelda basically gets free Lightning Kicks vs a float-happy Peach, for example).
:4shulk: is basically Cloud, but everything is slower and weaker by default. His gimmick is also worse, since instead of gaining all buffs, he gains some buffs and some penalties. Relies on hard reads to get kills or Smash for his Mondo Artes, which means one wrong move = oops ded. His gimmick has a lot of depth, and knowing which Arte to use as well as how to access the Arte ASAP is a must for performing decently. His Artes allow for more flexibility but at a cost. Hey, maybe Cloud/Mario/other extremely flexible characters with no real downsides should take some notes!
:4wiifit: hey, what happens if your entire body is a hitbox during a move? Well that move is probably going to be either awkward or short ranged! Um, why didn't Captain Falcon get the memo? Well, luckily WFT has amazing specials that are literally the only reason she's kinda viable. Her aerials and tilts have no reasonable kill power, meaning she's relying on fresh Sun Salutations or short ranged/awkward Fsmash/Usmash for reasonable KOs. She seems to be balanced around Deep Breathing, so her kill power feels "reasonable" when it's active. But. Like. Nobody's going to let her touch them after she takes the obvious 2-3 seconds to activate it.
:4jigglypuff: she has to know every opponent MU, know what they can do, so she can perfectly space her irrationally too-small hitboxes while avoiding any damage since 1) her shield breaking = instant death and 2) she's the lightest thing ever. OK! Totally doable!!! G O O D ♥ S T U F F
Good insight but as a Yosh main I wouldn't say he's THAT easy to play "efficiently" especially compared to some other characters like DK, Ganon or Marthcina. Yoshi does have a very well rounded kit but can sometimes get unlucky recovering from offstage and I think his play style in general requires some creativity and adaptation to win fairly consistently
 

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#23
Good insight but as a Yosh main I wouldn't say he's THAT easy to play "efficiently" especially compared to some other characters like DK, Ganon or Marthcina. Yoshi does have a very well rounded kit but can sometimes get unlucky recovering from offstage and I think his play style in general requires some creativity and adaptation to win fairly consistently
I'm going by the way of saying "not fully mastered" vs someone who has also not fully mastered the character. Yoshi is supremely fast in the air, he's like Air-Mac - except instead of trying to bully people on the ground for max dmg, he bullies them midair. Not to mention landing a Dair is 20-30 damage, or 1/3rd of a character's overall durability before they are easy to KO.

Vs faster characters (ground wise or move spam wise) he will have issues. His kit becomes very predictable once full mastery rolls around. So in a way he's like Zelda. Seems scary, gets a lot of damage per hit, has a lot of kill power, extreme punishes. But once the pattern is seen and the lagginess is taken advantage of by the opponent, they fall drastically down the tier list.

Except Yoshi still remains semi-viable at least. :secretkpop:
 
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WiFi

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#24
I'm going by the way of saying "not fully mastered" vs someone who has also not fully mastered the character. Yoshi is supremely fast in the air, he's like Air-Mac - except instead of trying to bully people on the ground for max dmg, he bullies them midair. Not to mention landing a Dair is 20-30 damage, or 1/3rd of a character's overall durability before they are easy to KO.

Vs faster characters (ground wise or move spam wise) he will have issues. His kit becomes very predictable once full mastery rolls around. So in a way he's like Zelda. Seems scary, gets a lot of damage per hit, has a lot of kill power, extreme punishes. But once the pattern is seen and the lagginess is taken advantage of by the opponent, they fall drastically down the tier list.

Except Yoshi still remains semi-viable at least. :secretkpop:
Except that Cloud exists.
 
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#25
Throwing the flag on this.

One of my training partners is a Pac-Man main, and a zoner main in general, and according to him Olimar is harder to play. Pac-Man doesn't have even half the advanced tech Olimar does, or even Megaman's. Also, Pac-Man has a pretty simple gameplan: Get Fruit, use Fruit, use Hydrant, run away and charge fruit, set Trampoline traps when needed. The only reason why people think Pac-Man is hard to play is because he has a garbage grab.
Your training partner isn’t tea though. Pac-Man mains, in order to succeed as shown at higher levels, must pull very single trick they have (which there is a laundry list of). Most mains of item holders aren’t really good at maximizing the value of their items; they just toss them away fairly quick.

Like really, watch Tea bro. And play pac-man yourself.

I know this won't help but I find charizard fairly easy to pick up and play.
He a classic superheavyweight with two specials with super armor and lightning fast tilts.
The fact that his aerial game is crap typically means you focus on ground game only and use aerials as little as possible.
Essentially he's a 'react to whatever your opponent does' sort of character and works really well as one at that.
Zard is very fun. He plays like a boxer in a way (at least I play him like that).

But once you start getting really advanced, he really becomes a boxer lol. Movement becomes soooo important, and though his aerials aren’t reliable like others, they’re more nuanced in that they demand specific situations.

Zard is fun. But his curve gets steeper and steeper as you advance. Kinda like every other character.
 

WiFi

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#26
Throwing the flag on this.



Your training partner isn’t tea though. Pac-Man mains, in order to succeed as shown at higher levels, must pull very single trick they have (which there is a laundry list of). Most mains of item holders aren’t really good at maximizing the value of their items; they just toss them away fairly quick.

Like really, watch Tea bro. And play pac-man yourself.



Zard is very fun. He plays like a boxer in a way (at least I play him like that).

But once you start getting really advanced, he really becomes a boxer lol. Movement becomes soooo important, and though his aerials aren’t reliable like others, they’re more nuanced in that they demand specific situations.

Zard is fun. But his curve gets steeper and steeper as you advance. Kinda like every other character.
I live in the Northeast, were Sinji is from, my friend met Sinji in tournament and learned a bunch of stuff from Sinji through a bunch of friendly Pac-dittos. I'd go so far to say that my friend is the 2nd-3rd best Pac-Man main in the state. I lose more than I win against him, and he bodies me when I'm not on my A-game. Regardless of my friend's skill, Pac-Man's tech is somewhat less difficult than Olimar's at a low level of play. Olimar also has to deal with micromanagement of Pikmin, which is something Pac-Man doesn't have to worry about. If you are talking about high-level mastery of the character, then I'd agree with what you are saying.
 
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#27
I live in the Northeast, were Sinji is from, my friend met Sinji in tournament and learned a bunch of stuff from Sinji through a bunch of friendly Pac-dittos. I'd go so far to say that my friend is the 2nd-3rd best Pac-Man main in the state. I lose more than I win against him, and he bodies me when I'm not on my A-game. Regardless of my friend's skill, Pac-Man's tech is somewhat less difficult than Olimar's at a low level of play. Olimar also has to deal with micromanagement of Pikmin, which is something Pac-Man doesn't have to worry about. If you are talking about high-level mastery of the character, then I'd agree with what you are saying.

We’re talking about the average smash player, who kinda knows what they’re doing. Not low level where people are still learning what move does what.

And pac man has to learn how to build a fortress that A.) is quickly made and B.) effective from multiple angles and in different situations. That’s something olimar doesn’t have to do.

You still need to play pac. You’re talking from one side, and it’s evident when you say:

Also, Pac-Man has a pretty simple gameplan: Get Fruit, use Fruit, use Hydrant, run away and charge fruit, set Trampoline traps when needed. The only reason why people think Pac-Man is hard to play is because he has a garbage grab.
Yeah no, this lacks so many in-between and details and several layers of nuances. That’s where my issue stems from. Pac man has serious complexity with manipulating of his parts to create a cohesive gameplan. That’s why he’s hard to mess around with.

Characters with a lot of working parts to their gameplan are gonna be hard for average player to get with. That demands a lot of manual control.
 

WiFi

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#28
We’re talking about the average smash player, who kinda knows what they’re doing. Not low level where people are still learning what move does what.

And pac man has to learn how to build a fortress that A.) is quickly made and B.) effective from multiple angles and in different situations. That’s something olimar doesn’t have to do.

You still need to play pac. You’re talking from one side, and it’s evident when you say:



Yeah no, this lacks so many in-between and details and several layers of nuances. That’s where my issue stems from. Pac man has serious complexity with manipulating of his parts to create a cohesive gameplan. That’s why he’s hard to mess around with.

Characters with a lot of working parts to their gameplan are gonna be hard for average player to get with. That demands a lot of manual control.
Olimar is still harder. According to Sigmund Freud, micromanagement is one of the hardest things for the human mind to do, even though it does it better than any other animal, it has its flaws. On a neurological level, it is harder to play Olimar, because you have to micromanage Pikmin. I also have played Pac-Man myself, and he's lot easier to play than Olimar. Pac-Man is like playing a chess game, but Olimar is like trying to run a successful business on Wall Street.
 
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#29
Olimar is still harder. According to Sigmund Freud, micromanagement is one of the hardest things for the human mind to do, even though it does it better than any other animal, it has its flaws. On a neurological level, it is harder to play Olimar, because you have to micromanage Pikmin. I also have played Pac-Man myself, and he's lot easier to play than Olimar. Pac-Man is like playing a chess game, but Olimar is like trying to run a successful business on Wall Street.
I don't care about olimar, arguing who's harder is entirely subjective anyhow (I can play olimar waaay better than pac). I'm arguing against this:

Also, Pac-Man has a pretty simple gameplan: Get Fruit, use Fruit, use Hydrant, run away and charge fruit, set Trampoline traps when needed. The only reason why people think Pac-Man is hard to play is because he has a garbage grab.
nah bruh, you lost your brain. But I can see why. Everyone character in the game is easy to play technically. You don't have to play super advanced (or can't) at lower levels. Just do some real basic stuff.

Until you're looking to master them, which then the learning curve gets harsher and harsher.
 

Applebutter61

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#30
Fox is pretty easy to play with basic fundamentals. He's a mix of Sheik and Mario that can kill. I wouldn't say Ness just because of his recovery. Rosalina is actually quite hard to play, with lots of micro-spacing, and Peach's tech is ridiculous.
I personally hate playing fox. One reason is that his short hop is so hard, though it would probably help if I used a GC controller (I have a wii "classic" controller). But other than that, he is just not my style at all. I generally prefer sword fighters (especially in PM): Marth, Ike, Toon Link. I think that the sword figthers really reward good fundamentals, and they're just fun! I think the hardest part in the learning curve with Marth is learning how to combo really well. Except for repeatedly up throwing spacies XD
 

WiFi

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#31
I personally hate playing fox. One reason is that his short hop is so hard, though it would probably help if I used a GC controller (I have a wii "classic" controller). But other than that, he is just not my style at all. I generally prefer sword fighters (especially in PM): Marth, Ike, Toon Link. I think that the sword figthers really reward good fundamentals, and they're just fun! I think the hardest part in the learning curve with Marth is learning how to combo really well. Except for repeatedly up throwing spacies XD
I use the PDP Fightpad, which is kind of like a Gamecube controller with a bigger C-Stick. Shorthopping with Fox, and learning his advanced combos is hard, but if you have good movement and fundamentals he's pretty easy to play compared to other fast-fallers such as Greninja and Sheik.
nah bruh, you lost your brain. But I can see why. Everyone character in the game is easy to play technically. You don't have to play super advanced (or can't) at lower levels. Just do some real basic stuff.

Until you're looking to master them, which then the learning curve gets harsher and harsher.
You're right about how every character is easy to play technically. I just don't believe Pac-Man is harder to play than the likes of Ryu and Shulk, and Olimar.
 

WiFi

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#34
Why is DK number 3? And don't tell me "ding dong".
Nothing really technical to name about this character. A beginner can pick up DK and get good him in less than an hour. DK is also really mobile for a heavy, which makes him a bit easier to play, along with having giant, invincible arms on many attacks, making him a good starting character for heavy mains, and for people in general. As said, he's heavy, so he has endurance, has sword-arms, and has good, simple combos, making him easy to play, and requires almost no advanced tech to play.
 

Krysco

The FERD Nerd
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#35
Top 5 flattest imo are:
1. Mario
2. Cloud
3. Lucina
4. Dark Pit
5. Ike
Honourable mentions to Pit and Ness.

Top 5 steepest imo are:
1. Shulk
2. Sheik
3. Peach
4. Rosalina & Luma
5. Mega Man
Honourable mentions to Olimar, PAC-MAN, Robin and Ryu.

For some minor clarity, Mario is considered easier than Cloud since at least with Cloud, you have to learn when it's a good idea to charge Limit and when it's best to use Limit moves and recovering isn't just handed to you. Pit's out of the top 5 since not only do you need to learn how to control his arrows but koing is also a bit more of a chore for him compared to Dark Pit since his side special kills later and while his ftilt is stronger, it can't be done out of a run or in the air. Ness is also out of top 5 largely due to his recovery.

Shulk is the steepest imo since he has 6 variations you have to get used to (the 5 artes plus vanilla) and he has a lot of tech that may or may not be super important. Just some off the top of my head are MALLC which essentially gives you Z cancelling from Smash 64, whatever the requirements for Monado Purge, his kill confirm are (I know it's at least something more than just uthrow uair) and then that shadow Iframe thing which makes his Vision harder to punish. Sheik is next since getting the most out of her combos and getting kills is difficult and learning all of her tech like c bouncing and needle fidgeting. Peach is largely due to float but there's also learning when it's a good idea to pull a turnip and how to use them. Rosa might just be a 'me' issue but I've never been good at keeping Luma alive for very long since shielding doesn't protect it and every time you turn towards your opponent, Luma gets put between the 2 of you. Mega Man edges it out over the others in HM since you have to learn how to operate a character without a traditional jab, ftilt or nair. Olimar requires learning how each of his Pikmin work but it's easier than Brawl since he can only have 3 at a time, they come in a set order and there's an arrow to easily let you know which one comes next. Could see him edging out Megaman since he has tech like Stickmin. PAC-MAN might just be another 'me' issue but he has numerous items to learn how to use from neutral special along with learning all the ways to launch the hydrant and use its water and using all of that plus the trampoline to trap your opponent. Plus he lacks a good killing aerial so learning how to ko could be tough. As someone who uses Robin, I can see how people would find him difficult since he has 4 variations of neutral special, his tomes and Levin Sword run out of uses and at a first glance, he may seem like the type to just throw projectiles from far away but imo, just a few matches with him and you learn that that doesn't work. The rest just comes down to experimenting enough to learn what each Thunder variant does and how tome and sword happy you can be before you pay a penalty, plus there's learning how to make use of the discarded items. Ryu just requires learning his unique inputs and getting used to that awful air acceleration.
 
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#37
Oh and wait, why is Ryu on everyone’s list? It’s just some additional inputs that are not even required to be successful with.

You could successfully play Ryu without using his additional buttons. Only input you need really is TSRK.

He’s not as hard as robin.

Top 5 hardest at the average level should
Be these characters in no order:

:4duckhunt::4robinm::4pacman::4peach::4shulk:with HMs being :4sheik::rosalina::4olimar::4megaman::4tlink::4link::4villager::4ryu::4mewtwo::4sonic:

I think people don’t really know about sonic either, they just downplay him because he can be Boring or w/e. But, he gives you a lot of control, and tha control can backfire on you.
 

WiFi

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#38
Hmmm, after seeing more people answer, and asking people on their relative character discords, here's my new list:
Easiest:
1.Mario
2.Cloud
3.Pit
4.Kirby
5.Lucina
HM's: Donkey Kong, Bowser, Ganondorf, Yoshi, Fox (Lower Level), Bayonetta (Personal Opinion, Probably wrong about this), Yoshi (Learn how to recover as Yoshi+ Egg Throw, then he's easy), Sonic (Lower Level)

Hardest:
1.Shulk
2.Peach
3.Sheik
4.Robin (When I actually think about it)
5.Duck Hunt Dog
HM's: The Rest of the Zoners, Ryu, Sonic (high Level), Rosalina, Diddy Kong (You have to know how to play neutral, or just be naturally talented at neutral to play Diddy), Mewtwo, The Links, Charizard (Most Difficult Heavy, not most difficult character).
 

sleepy_Nex

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#39
Easiest:
1.:4cloud::4cloud2:
2.:4mario:
3.:4dk:
4.:4bowser:
5.:4ryu:

Ryu: You can pretend all day that he is so demanding because of "inputs" but if you get real you see that weak tilt inputs are super easy and you only need to get done these red hadouken and true upb confirms. His approach is linear so you don't have that much different options to learn and his airials make a **** ton of damage with some of them just combo'en into itself. You literally have to land 5-6 airials and then you can go for the killconfirm. Downb isn't difficult to controll either. You don't need to reverse it midair or anything like this you can easily tap twice and go in the direction you want+it's rather helpful when landing.
He also doesn't really have much flashy combos it's just weak tilts to something or when you feel fancy the nair to dair things on the ledge.

yeah tl:dr in his core you just need some neutral exchanges and then fish+his inputs aren't demanding at all and he mostly doesn't have complicated combos to learn.
He is just a damage and kill-monster with a linear approach as weakness.

Hardest:
1. :4shulk:
2. :4sheik:
3. :4mewtwo:
4. :4peach:
5. :rosalina:

HM to: :4greninja: :4robinm::4alph::4duckhunt:

Rosa might be a weird pick when i see what others picked but she is far from pick up and suddenly be good.
 

Nah

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#40
Define what you all mean by "is hard to learn" and/or "has a steep learning curve"

I'm just curious since about half of you mentioned that Robin is one of "harder" ones
 
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