Standard Gordos vs. Bouncing Gordos

[W.A.C.]

I recently decided to make King Dedede one of my mains largely because of how much he improves with custom moves. Out of all his custom moves, my favorite of his are bouncing gordos because they're such an awesome stage control move. However, I'm having difficulty finding information to show how they can be used effectively and I've only seen a person use them at tournaments once. [LINK] With this in mind, I'm curious to know how a lot of you feel about bouncing gordos compared to Dedede's standard gordos and what advice can be given to those who use bouncing gordos.

 

[meleebrawler]

Against characters that deflect gordos very easily it can be more useful than default.
It's a bit like an automatic version of Duck Hunt's Zigzag Shot. Although no more difficult to deflect than
normal, doing so in a way that hurts Dedede is more difficult and it doesn't hurt as much anyway.

I'd still prefer defaults against slower opponents without ranged options, though, as the threat and chances
of it hitting increase.

 

[W.A.C.]

My current control scheme for tournaments is 3322, but should I frequently experiment with 3122 and possibly other variants? Both versions of gordos seem like one of Dedede's best moves, so I've been thinking about using both of those in the future instead of just 3322. Should I bother with any of his other neutral specials, up specials, and down specials? I find his custom versions of up and down special way more useful, and the significantly smaller amount of lag with his custom neutral special makes the move considerably less risky and way less likely to SD from an accidental neutral special off stage.

 

[meleebrawler]

My current control scheme for tournaments is 3322, but should I frequently experiment with 3122 and possibly other variants? Both versions of gordos seem like one of Dedede's best moves, so I've been thinking about using both of those in the future instead of just 3322. Should I bother with any of his other neutral specials, up specials, and down specials? I find his custom versions of up and down special way more useful, and the significantly smaller amount of lag with his custom neutral special makes the move considerably less risky and way less likely to SD from an accidental neutral special off stage.

You're kind of deviating from the topic of this thread you just made, don't you want to talk more about gordos?

Though I do encourage you to experiment away. The only custom Dedede has that really strikes me as booty
is Dash Jet Hammer (too weak, pushback and charge time negate use as approach).

 

[W.A.C.]

I do want to focus primarily on gordos, though I felt like asking that question since gordos seem like his only specials worth experimenting with.

 

[SalsaSavant]

They're a great choice against opponents who are great at projectile spamming, but they're less useful in general.

I think standard are better overall, but it's matchup dependent.

 

[W.A.C.]

What gordos would you guys suggest works better depending on the matchup? A list of sorts would be cool.

 

[SalsaSavant]

I don't have full matchup experience with bouncing, so there's a little speculation here, but...
Bouncing for Tink/Link/Duck Hunt. Maybe ROB too. Anyone who can zone with projectiles effectively and consistently.
Standard for everyone else, because Utilt Gorodos= more useful stage control.

Basically, standard lets you control you immediate surroundings, but Bouncing lets you control several spots away from you, but less effectively because they bounce away and take a second to get back. As D3, you'll want to control the area around you more often, because you have some lag, and Utilt Gordos help make up for that by restricting enemy movement.

So, it's basically...do you want to be able to "snipe" a faraway enemy and banish them from that spot for a little while, or do you want to have more control over the area around you?

 

[W.A.C.]

I frequently use down tilt bouncing gordos to control the space around me, but in a way that's completely different from how people take advantage of down tilt standard gordos. What I find the most appealing about bouncing gordos is stage control and limiting my opponent's options. They can make it for more difficult for my opponent to approach.

 

[Muskrat Catcher]

I have never used the custom gordos since I don't really have anyone to play against with customs, but I have seen them used in tournaments, and I think that the standard gordos would be more effective, due to the plethora of different ways to manipulate them, especially if you are on a stage that isn't final destination or omega form, since you can use the slope of the stage to even bounce a standard gordo backwards, possibly giving it the effect of a bouncing gordo with all the benefits of standard gordos. Some people say that gordos are some of the worst projectiles, but you have more options with gordos than any other projectile in the game! But that's an argument for another thread.

 

[Alphatron]

The bounce arc is too high to make use of on certain stages so I think that needs to be taken into consideration too.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

The bounce arc is too high to make use of on certain stages so I think that needs to be taken into consideration too.

I feel as though this is the most important thing to note.

Bouncing Gordos lose a lot of potency on certain stages with platforms, slopes, stage hazards, and on stages that tilt. Using EVO's stagelist as an example, here's what type of Gordo I would use depending on the stage.


Bouncing Gordo: Final Destination, Smashville, Town & City, Battlefield

Standard > Bouncing (probably): Halberd, Castle Siege, Delfino Plaza

Standard Gordo: Final Destination, Smashville, Town & City, Battlefield, Halberd, Castle Siege, Delfino Plaza, Lylat Cruise, Duck Hunt


As you can see, I feel as though Standard Gordo is much more useful on most stages. And here's some reasons why I feel as though you should avoid Bouncing Gordo in the other stages.


Halberd: While on the floating portion of the stage, the large platform perfectly shields any opponent that's under it, due to it's size and because there are slopes below it. While fighting on the Halberd itself though, this no longer becomes an issue.

Castle Siege: While lopsided, Bouncing Gordo can be effectively used on the first transition of the stage. However, things get dicey on the later two parts of the stage. The second transition because statues kill Gordos (though this also applies to default Gordos), and the third transition because of how the stage tilts. In particular, the third transition is the main problem, because the ground can completely erase a Bouncing Gordo sometimes when the stage is tilting. Overall Standard Gordo would be better here for consistency.

Delfino Plaza: Tons of platforms and slopes to take into consideration here, which can lead to many unfavorable Gordo Bounces. It can be mastered with perfect understanding of the stage, but you probably would want to consider using Standard Gordo more for this stage instead, since the results would be a lot more consistent.

---

Lylat Cruise: Don't even bother picking Bouncing Gordo here. Even if you take into account the three platforms which opponents can hide under and the far slopes of the stage, none of this matters because the stage tilts. It literally eats most Bouncing Gordos that you throw before they even get a chance to bounce once.

Duck Hunt: Quite simply, the ducks can ruin your Bouncing Gordo shenanigans outright. Don't pick it here.



Overall, even if you don't take specific matchups into consideration, Bouncing Gordos are hindered by the stages that are picked. While Standard Gordos are far less susceptible to this. Therefore, your best bet is usually just sticking to using the Standard Gordos for most situations.

This is coming from someone who also likes to use the 3122 and 3322 sets. I hope this helps.

 

[Soul Train]

Actually, at your request @ W.A.C. , I've been actually working on a seventh video for D3's customs. But I'm currently waiting on potential (hopeful) changes with this Wednesday's patch to really dig into anything just yet

Anyways, @ SalsaSavant and @ ItsRainingGravy , you did a great job covering Bouncing Gordos. Yep, they're very stage and matchup-specific, but can act as a fantastic way to throw off opponents used to normal Gordos. I particularly like them vs Sanic (my least favorite matchup), as they open up a lot of pressure potential. Honestly, in comparison to the rest of the cast, D3 is minimally changed by customs. UpB is great already, and DownB is competitively bad no matter what version you use.

However there is one Custom I've been really using to improve my D3 game lately: Taste Test. Inhale is really underused as a whole - it destroys opponents used to airdodging our large disjointed hitboxes, and is a fantastic air-to-ground mixup. However Inhale's endlag is very punishable; Taste Test fixes this, does more damage, and spits the opponents out even farther. B-reverse it for a fantastic mixup option. We'll see if the patch leaves this unchanged, and then if a great video breakdown might be made (fingers crossed).

 

[meleebrawler]

However there is one Custom I've been really using to improve my D3 game lately: Taste Test. Inhale is really underused as a whole - it destroys opponents used to airdodging our large disjointed hitboxes, and is a fantastic air-to-ground mixup. However Inhale's endlag is very punishable; Taste Test fixes this, does more damage, and spits the opponents out even farther. B-reverse it for a fantastic mixup option. We'll see if the patch leaves this unchanged, and then if a great video breakdown might be made (fingers crossed).

I'd consider having more damage and longer range a fair tradeoff for less reliable Dededecides
from a developer standpoint.

 

[axelalexzander]

Tourney I played in recently banned customs so that made my choice pretty easy.