• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Stale Moves?

kirbykid

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
486
Location
Texas
In melee, we were often penalized for using a move over and over and over. The game had a simple way of letting us know when we crossed such a line. After the match, each player could check if they were given the “stale moves” award. Six years later, I’ve grown tired of these moves.

With every screenshot released from the Dojo, I cringe a bit inside as I recognize moves that look the same as they did in Melee. After playing six years of the not strong enough, not fast enough, not good enough Kirby, my only hope is that Sakurai does him justice in Brawl. But what do I expect? Is it even reasonable to expect an entirely new move set for each character? Do I expect Sakurai to include everything I like from past Kirby’s games like all of his animal friends?

<a href="http://smashboards.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/kirbyfriends.PNG" title="kirbyfriends.PNG"><img src="http://smashboards.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/kirbyfriends.PNG" alt="kirbyfriends.PNG" /></a>

<!--more-->Making up new animations and moves for each character would be an inefficient use of time and money. After all, some of the animations between Smash64 and Melee haven’t changed much in appearance, but their effects are vastly different.

So, if they change some of the physics, or the way the characters interact, or the effects of the moves then the game won’t be the same. If they do any one of these, I’ll be satisfied.

After looking through what few screen shots we have of the Brawl characters, I’ve notice that there is still much that hasn’t been revealed. Take Samus for example. The pictures show her charging a blast, using her forward air attack, and maybe shooting a missile. This isn’t a lot of information, and it isn’t very conclusive. Maybe if we received video instead of still images we would be able to extract much more information. I know Sakurai is feeding us one teaspoon at a time, but what could he be hiding?

It wouldn’t take them long to simply copy the characters over from Melee, if that was all they were doing. So are they working on balancing the game? Or are they finding ways to give us everything we ever wanted and more. When I thought of all the different styles of Kirby they could create, I ended up with at least 3 unique versions.

Melee Kirby. Crystal Shards Kirby (combining powers -see picture below). Animal Friends Kirby.

<a href="http://smashboards.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/screen01.jpg" title="screen01.jpg"><img src="http://smashboards.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/screen01.jpg" alt="screen01.jpg" /></a>

What if Kirby could combine powers in Brawl. Falcon Punch + Fox Laser = Flying falcons of fire and doom?

What made each version different wasn’t any changes to their A moves, but changes to their B moves. Since B moves are what makes each character especially unique, wouldn’t it be interesting if we could mix and match B moves to create a more personalized character. What if each of Kirby’s friends (see first picture) could be assigned to a B move. Of course this means you would have to sacrifice a move for a move, but just the thought of mixing and matching is exciting.

Brawl could be Sakurai’s last chance to work on a Smash bros game. Somehow, I don’t see him taking the easy way out especially considering all the time and sweat that is going into the game. He had no choice but to make four different control methods. What else could he have no choice over? Making Brawl the greatest game ever?
 
L

Lava

Guest
“He had no choice but to make four different control methods. What else could he have no choice over? Making Brawl the greatest game ever?”

Ha, totally man! I’ve been churning ideas like this around in my brain for a while too, and it just seems… likely. Sakurai is not restrained money and talent wise, so he is just pouring his soul into the game. I guess the time limit might hurt just a tad… nah.

“Nintendo really is a versatile company when it comes to IPs.
I mean, when it comes to characters, there are pretty much a bazillion different types.

I guess I have no choice but implement them all!”

–Sakurai

Haha! Yeah, this game has way too much hype, but somehow I’m gaining an ever stronger faith that Sakurai will deliver. (Meet, or possibly even exceed expectations.)

P.S. My first character was Kirby on SSB64, so here’s hoping he climbs the tier a little bit. (Link too, but he’s already a nice mid-level.)
 

PrinnyFlute

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 20, 2007
Messages
331
I think the most Sakurai is going to do in terms of indulging his love for Kirby is expand the universe into Brawl with Metaknight (and maybe Dedede.) It would already seem at least two of Kirby’s previous B moves are returning from his screenshots on Smash Dojo. But it would still be pretty awesome to be able to combine powers.
 
B

Branden

Guest
to be honest i never realy liked kirbys power to suck up his opponants and become them. I wish they would make this moveset something else but that defeats the porpuse of even haveing kirby.
 
M

Master Makoku

Guest
I think combining moves would be cool but make the game a little more complicated. I mean to combine roy’s b attack with say Foxs or marios b attacks could be complicated to make a move. I dont know if his b attacks will be the animals but they might show up as characters or maybe items?
 

kirbykid

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
486
Location
Texas
Master Makoku:
It’s no more complicated than what they did for Kirby64. Some combinations worked well, some were repeats, and some didn’t work at all. That’s just how it goes.
 
M

Master Makoku

Guest
Do u mean combinations from Kirby64 or do u b attacks in Brawl? It would be tough to combine Yoshis tounge attack with links arrow dontcha think.
 

Rockin

Juggies <3
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Messages
3,546
Location
Bronx, New York
Master Makoku:
That’s what would make testing so fun!

If we combine Fox’s lasers with Falco, Kirby would have the ultimate blaster.

Personally, I too wanna see more justice for Kirby. I mean, he deserves it just as much as Mario. and combining moves is sweet indeed. But wouldn’t that make Kirby a bit too powerful?
 
X

XperimnT

Guest
Not necessarily. If Sakurai gave the combination a trump card, then Kirby would have a new weakness.
For example, if you combine Mario’s fireball with Bowser’s fire, then the attack could have a delay after excecution.
Or something…
Maybe the combined moves wouldn’t have new power. Maybe just combined physics. Like a Rapid Fireball blast from kirby’s hand. Just hold B like breathing fire, and p-p-p-pow. A short burst of small, low damage fireballs.
 
S

shadow

Guest
if kirby still has that move where he sucks up your b attack it should let us pick the attack we copy
 

kirbykid

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
486
Location
Texas
There’s no point in discussing balancing and if this ability will make Kirby too powerful. Right now he’s at the bottom of the stack. If he becomes too powerful, I say, so be it.

Of course I would say something like that. And that’s just me.
 
A

Anthony

Guest
Haha-stale…it’s a fighting game it’s not supposed to drastically change.

Now I too have been with Kirby since his GB debut-and for a long time he was my second fave Nintendo char of all time after Link-but I honestly find no character’s moveset stale, lets not complicate things…

Nonetheless I”m sure it’ll be the greatest game EVER made.
 

kirbykid

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
486
Location
Texas
“Haha-stale…it’s a fighting game it’s not supposed to drastically change.”

Oh, I wasn’t aware that you found some governing rule about how all fighting game sequels are to be made.
Stale means it was good, but now it’s getting kind of old. We’ve been playing Melee for about six years now for countless hours. All the branching possibilities have been carefully and selectively pruned down to the state that it is in today (competitive-wise of course).

Now that we’re nearing the summit of the characters raw technical abilities, the game and the way it’s play is starting to flow into a single direction instead of many. This is what I mean by stale.

It’s time to shake things up.
 
M

Master Makoku

Guest
As much as i would love to see new moves i wouldn’t want to see old ones leave. Maybe if you could pick your moveset now that would be cool. You could have old ones mixed with new ones to make the ultimate attack combination.
 
X

XperimnT

Guest
Now your talkin.
That would be an excellent idea for Nintendo to revive some of Mario’s older techniques.
What would be cooler is if each stage had a unique item. Like the Mariokart stage. Maybe it should have a thunderbolt that shrinks every opponnent but the user. Just like in Mariokart games.
 
S

shadow

Guest
i’ve been thinking…you should have a selection of moves and be able to create your own move set.


SMASH BROS ROCKS!!!!
 
L

Lava

Guest
^^What the heck? That would suck to have to choose your own movesets… talk about slowing down the “pick-up-and-play” aspect of the game. Sure maybe you could save your preferences your own console, but let’s be realistic, you’re not going to be able to carry them in your remote to other consoles such as during smashfests or tourneys. Especially if you’re not even using a remote. That sounds like one of the most anti-Nintendo philosophy ideas I’ve heard yet. (I hope you were just stretching your imagination for fun, cause that seriously isn’t… well, you know.
 
M

Master Makoku

Guest
Whats wrong with it. That way smash wouldnt be the same after 5 years of play. Thats what this blog was about. Being able to customize the characters with different moves would give u more variety. Obviosly u could have a default moveset that is from the original games. The custimization would be for the better players that want to have different combos. Also this way you can keep old moves and make new ones. This would also benefit to all the different marios that people want.
 

kirbykid

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
486
Location
Texas
The wiimote has 6k of memory. 3/4 controller configurations contain a wiimote.

Now lets have a little fun.

Boot up notepad (if you have a PC of course).

See how much information you can type before you hit a 6k file.

This is what I typed:

Hey Kirby kid here.
Super Smash Brothers is my favorite video game of all time.
I wish Kirby had a move set with all of his animal friends instead of
the pathetic hammer and rock that he has now.
Oh, and replace my up B and I’ll give you one million melee coins.
I have more than a million lying around so don’t worry Sakurai.

And guess what? It’s only 1k.
Now add to that the fact that the move set data wouldn’t be a bunch of words but a chart filled with numbers.

1001010010001
1010010101010
1010100000101
1011011011011


^^^ that could be all the information you would need to save.

I hope every had fun playing around in notepad. That’s about all it’s good for nowadays.
 
T

Tony (Knightcrawler)

Guest
If Kirby could combine power absorbed moves, he’d be less powerful in 1-on-1 fights than in melee fights. This would unbalance his character. So, bad idea IMO.
 
L

Lava

Guest
@ multiple people

I’m not sure if I am being misunderstood, or people are just by chance pointing out facts about the Wii remote after I mentioned storing data on it. The remote has more then enough space to track all kinds of personal data in a given game. I’m just saying with Nintendo’s new philosophy of keeping things simple, there’s no chance that they will allow things like multiple movesets for characters, when noobs aren’t going to care, or possibly even get confused and not want to play. Carrying around Miis/saved names and personal track records is about the most we can hope for. Am I the only one who sees this? They are only now starting to do things like editable movesets in hardcore fighters, and even then, it’s quite limited.

So if you are just having fun wishing for things, again, that’s cool with me, but it just sounds like you really think something like that is possible for Brawl.

I don’t expect to be flamed, I am expressing my opinion about the reality of Brawl, and Nintendo’s limitations (mostly self-inflicted), as well as trying to figure out what exactly it is that some of you are trying to say. If it’s “Brawl SHOULD have these features, but I know it never will,” then that’s fine and that’s your opinion. If you actually think Brawl could possibly have a chance at implementing editable (or swap-able) movesets, then I must interject that you are sure to be wrong. Please, without flaming, just clarify. (Or don’t comment.)

Ugh, I can’t even fathom Nintendo allowing this. Online gaming is kind of strange for Nintendo even in this day and age where people have been doing it most of their gaming lives.
 

kirbykid

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
486
Location
Texas
Tony (Knightcrawler):
Your comment doesn’t make sense. If Kirby can combine multiple character’s powers (like in Kirby64) then he would still be able to use powers from a single character. Also, kirby is able to take powers from the same character twice and combine them. And even if he couldn’t, this wouldn’t unbalance his character. It would simple mean that he couldn’t do as much as we would have been able to.

Lava:
I’m saying that you have an incorrect view of the Nintendo Philosophy. If you knew Sakurai’s style better then this would be more obvious. Smash is a very simple fighter controller-input-wise when compared to other fighters, but it’s still a very complex game. This isn’t Nintendogs we’re talking about.

Smash Melee is the highest selling game on the Gamecube. We’re hoping it’s the flagship title for gameplay and features on the Wii. This includes internet and anything else the wii can do.

You said that noobs wouldn’t care about multiple move sets. You are wrong. Noobs aren’t a bunch of shallow idiots. They may not be able to play well, and they may not care to get better, but it doesn’t mean they wouldn’t care about the games features.

If the character had a default move set, then anyone could ignore the option of custom moves if they so wished.

And by swap-able movesets, I was simply talking about, if each B move had an alternative B move. This isn’t too complicated. It’s almost like taking clone characters from Melee and putting their differences into one character.

Also, your comments about Nintendo’s “limitations,” their “philosophy,” and how their online network is doing tells me what kind of attitude you have in this area. You might want to either do more research or relax a bit and trust Nintendo. Even when you think you know them, they have a way of surprising everyone.
 
M

Master Makoku

Guest
Thanks for backing me up(even if you didnt mean to). You cant say that it wont happen because it wouldnt surprise me. Sakurai might want to make new moves but he doesnt want to disapoint his fans. So to keep old moves and make new ones an editable moveset would be perfect. I mean come on you cant honestly say your not getting tired of the same attacks after 6 years. Also you could do a costume change. An example would be mario. Say you want paper mario and instead of making a complete different character you could just make mario change to the paper style and change his moves. Or if you want Fierce diety’s link. The same would happen. This also helps in the fact of the link transforming to wolf link. Say some people want the bomb attack and others want a transform. They could chose when they wanted to. Im not 100% sure they’ll eventually do it. But they could.
 
M

Maric Alistaro

Guest
i cant stand kirby and i hope they nerf fox and peach while they are at it.
 
G

Gary

Guest
Hopefully they give Kirby back at least half of the speed and strength he lost in translation from Smash 64 to Melee.
 
Top Bottom