Stages(Next discussion: Lucario) Scheduled for Sunday

[gallax]

Hello to all you fellow pika players. I have been asked to do a study of stage selections and counterpicking. I have started to do this but it seems to me that this will go faster if we were to just discuss it as a whole.

The point of this thread is to discuss the stages for each matchup and decide which stages would be best to ban against when using pika, and which stages are great for counterpicking. For those of you who do not know what counterpicking is, it is when you pick a stage that is more beneficial to pika than to the other character in a tournament. I will pick the stage, we will discuss who/when/why/why not to pick it.

Some things that you should know when reading this stage selection for each character is that is goes from left to right. Left being the best choice, right being the not best choice. Counterpick here means that the stage gives pika an advantage(overall) in the matchup. Ban means, if you can, to ban these stages in tournaments(or just try not to play them). And nuetral means the stage favors no character. The order in nuetral is randon.

Stages for Consideration

Neutrals:

Battlefield

Tips and Tricks to remember:

Final Destination

Tips and Tricks to remember:

Yoshi's Island

Tips and Tricks to remember:

Lylat Cruise

Tips and Tricks to remember:

Smashville

Tips and Tricks to remember:

Counterpicks:

Pokemon Stadium 1

Tips and Tricks to remember: Can increase how many time you can CG by throwing against objects.

Luigi's Mansion

Tips and Tricks to remember:

Delfino Plaza

Tips and Tricks to remember:

Castle Siege

Tips and Tricks to remember:

Pirate Ship

Tips and Tricks to remember: Do not get stuck in between the ship and the rocks, it leads to instant death.

Frigate Orpheon

Tips and Tricks to remember:

Halberd

Tips and Tricks to remember:

Rainbow Cruise

Tips and Tricks to remember:

Brinstar

Tips and Tricks to remember:




Characters

Bowser

Stages for counterpicking: Pirate Ship, Delphino Plaza, Rainbow Cruise, Brinstar, Castle Siege, Pokemon Stadium 1, Smashville, Halberd, Battlefield

Stages to ban: Luigi's Mansion, Lylat Cruise

Neutral stages: Frigate Orpheon, Final Destination, Yoshi's Island

Captain Falcon

Stages for counterpicking: Final Destination, Delphino Plaza, Frigate Orpheon, Smashville, Castle Siege, Yoshi's Island, Pokemon Stadium 1, Pirate Ship

Stages to ban: Luigi's Mansion, Rainbow Cruise

Neutral stages: Lylat Cruise, Halberd, Brinstar, Battlefield

Diddy Kong

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Donkey Kong

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Falco

Stages for counterpicking: Rainbow Cruise, Pokemon Stadium 1, Brinstar, Lylat Cruise, Yoshi's Island, Battlefield

Stages to ban: Final Destination, Pirate Ship, Delphino Plaza, Halberd

Neutral stages: Smashville, Castle Siege, Luigi's Mansion, Frigate Orpheon

Fox
Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Ganondorf

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Ice Climbers

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Ike

Stages for counterpicking: Frigate Orpheon, Final Destination, Rainbow Cruise, Pokemon Stadium 1, Smashville, Pirate Ship, Castle Siege

Stages to ban: Luigi's Mansion, Battlefield, Halberd

Neutral stages: Lylat Cruise, Yoshi's Island, Brinstar, Delphino Plaza

Jigglypuff

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Kirby

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

King DeDeDe

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Link

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Lucario

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Lucas

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Luigi

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Mario

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Marth

Stages for counterpicking: Pokemon Stadium 1, Halberd, Frigate Orpheon, Smashville, Delphino Plaza, Yoshi's Island

Stages to ban: Brinstar, Rainbow Cruise, Luigi's Mansion

Neutral stages: Lylat Cruise, Battlefield, Final Destination, Pirate Ship, Castle Siege

Meta Knight

Stages for counterpicking: Final Destination, Pokemon Stadium 1, Halberd, Yoshi's Island, Castle Siege, Pirate Ship, Battlefield

Stages to ban: Rainbow Cruise/Luigi's Mansion, Brinstar, Delphino Plaza,

Neutral stages: Frigate Orpheon, Smashville, Luigi's Mansion, Lylat Cruise

Mr. Game and Watch

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Ness

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Peach

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Pikachu

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Pit

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Pokemon Trainer

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Olimar

Stages for counterpicking: Frigate Orpheon, Delphino Plaza, Final Destination(weak), Brinstar(weak),

Stages to ban: Luigi's Mansion, Lylat Cruise, Castle Siege, Battlefield,

Neutral stages: Halberd, Pokemon Stadium 1, Smashville, Yoshi's Island, Rainbow Cruise, Pirate Ship

R.O.B.

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Samus

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Sheik

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Snake

Stages for counterpicking: Rainbow Cruise, Pokemon Stadium 1, Final Destination, Delphino Plaza, Pirate Ship, Castle Siege

Stages to ban: Luigi's Mansion, Brinstar, Lylat Cruise,

Neutral stages: Halberd, Frigate Orpheon, Smashville, Yoshi's Island, Battlefield,

Sonic

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Toon Link

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Zelda

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Wario

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Wolf

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Yoshi

Stages for counterpicking:

Stages to ban:

Neutral stages:

Zero Suit Samus

Stages for counterpicking: Luigi's Mansion, Lylat Cruise, Rainbow Cruise, Castle Siege, Frigate Orpheon, Yoshi's Island, Delphino Plaza,

Stages to ban: Pirate Ship, Battlefield

Neutral stages: Halberd, Smashville, Pokemon Stadium 1, Final Destination

Sepcial: Brinstar

 

[gallax]

*sorry for the double pot but i am reserving the second post just in case this thread needs the extra space*

 

[Piman34]

Final Destination: good for killing floatier characters off the top with some QAC thunders, also good flat stage for characters that can be chain grabbed with f-throw. It's small enough that Pikachu can fly under the stage and survive, which can be a good survival technique as well as a mindgame. Lots of open space for horizontal recovery skullbashes and the like, but that can work against Pikachu as well, leaving lots of air space for characters like DeDeDe and Marth for good off stage game.

Battlefield: platforms help pikachu, giving him the ability to QAC all over the place, which increases mobility, allowing less downtime. The edges here sometimes screw Pikachu's recovery over if you try to sweetspot the edge, however, it is smaller than FD, so an understage recovery is also very viable.

Yoshi's Island: the slanted edges help to avoid straight projectiles that would otherwise hit you when you crouch/crawl, a straight side below the stage allows for wall jumping mindgames / recovery. the slanted platform is good to T-jolt on, since it will crawl around, and usually hit the opponent if they are on the side of the stage where the platform slants down to, trying to approach, etc.

Lylat Cruise: the slanted edges can easily screw you up, especially if you get distracted with the background changes. overall, a simple 3-platform stage, which benefits Pikachu. Also able to go underneath. the slants here also help with avoiding some projectiles, but I would say that battlefield is more of a neutral / better alternative for Pikachu, but that may be a bias opinion from personal results.

Smashville: easily one of the best stages for Pikachu. small enough where the stage is easily maneuverable, while still maintaining decent side/top height space. The moving platform is also very good to use to your advantage and control the playing field with. it can also help with various combos, that otherwise would be unreachable since a single hop will get you up there. Can also be used I guess as an extended stage when trying to recover. also your t-jolt will almost reach around the entire bottom if used right near the edge

Pokemon stadium 1: the transformations here help pikachu, especially against larger characters, but they certainly don't hurt him. The downside is the edges and the pole in the middle of the bottom, preventing going underneath, but the edges here are a ***** sometimes. in general, the 2-platform layout is also very helpful, allowing Pikachu to control the stage with relative ease.

Delfino Plaza: lots of opportunities to take advantage of Pikachu's mobility, with being able to go underneath the stage, as well as through the bottom. the stage moves alot, which is good to help keep things in your favor, with being able to have your T-jolts hug the slanted platforms to reach heads on the ground. overall a good stage for pikachu, with all of the areas the stage goes to having some area right near the edge good for fast kills, or with low ceilings which definitely help

Frigate Orpheon: good stage in general, the platform in the middle (or sometimes the side) helps with anticipation of enemy moves. the stage shifting here can cause distractions but if you take advantage of this, you can easily get a thunder off to help turn the tide in your favor. also, the edges here are not always edges! just keep this in mind if you are trying to gimp someone's recovery, but also don't forget it when you yourself are recovering.

 

[plasmid]

All I know is FD is my bread and butter. I eat that s**t for breakfast. And yes, I eat s**t for breakfast.

But seriously I notice that platforms can screw me up a lot. Not when they don't take up the whole stage like on Smashville, but Battlefield is my bane, as well as Lylat Cruise.

 

[gallax]

laylat cruise seems to give a lot of people problems.

 

[plasmid]

Worst. Stage. Ever.

 

[gallax]

no. that one with all the leaves that turns colors and make noises is the worst stage ever. i keep waiting for it to play the theme to the little mermaid.

 

[plasmid]

Hannenbow, no I can deal with that. Don't even need to fight, just wait till the enemy kills himself.
Lylat however, I will kill it. You know I couldn't even unlock Wolf because you have to fight him on that horrible excuse for a playable stage. I had to get my friend to unlock him for me.

 

[Piman34]

that's kinda sad haha jk but yeah I dont like it either, but maybe we can figure out a way to learn to like it, and use that to our advantage against other people who dont like it

 

[Stealth Raptor]

I just dislike the stage as the edges are so finicky, and the fact that the stage is constantly dipping from side to side makes it so easy to miss the edge on the inside by a pixel, and instead of grabbing the edge, poof you have hit the bottom and die.

I will get started on a counter pick stage. if the other person uses a ROB, try to get a stage with platforms. when a ROB is on a platform and you are underneath, you have complete control over him. his only way to escape is to jump. My friend who plays ROB hates battlefield with a passion, just because he has to leap from one platform to another, with me chasing with fairs and uairs, waiting for me to make a mistake so he can land on firm ground. so my assesment is-Battlefield is a good counterpick for ROB. note-pikachu has a great deal of control on every character who is on a platform above him, just because it is so hard to punish the otherwise easy to punish aerials. platformed stages should always be counterpick stages in my opinion. also fun to qac around as previously mentioned.

 

[gallax]

but you have to remember with platforms that other characters love platforms to death. a good example is olimar. platforms can step up his game dramatically. smashville os also good with snake cuz of the moving platform. plant a c4 there and it travels all across the stage.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

True my point is pika has more options then most when he is on a platform. he can dsmash the heads of taller characters underneath them (like ROB). he can drop and do a quick aerial better then most. worst case you can QAC down into a Tjolt. Pikas options are very numerous, and he loves platforms. moving platforms can be used for moving tjolts, time it so they curl onto the heads of the enemies.

EDIT: yeah make sure you never counterpick olimar on a platform stage. i have a friend who is the best oli in his clan, and platforms just mean spam hyphen smash ftw.

 

[Piman34]

well we should brainstorm about stuff like this tonight or w/e but, in general I think platforms help Pika more than opponents, and yes there are some exceptions, but holistically dual platform and tri platform levels are a good choice, IMO

 

[Stealth Raptor]

Yeah are we talking tonight? or some other date?

 

[Piman34]

I'm down, and on aim, so we will get somethin goin Im sure ...you and me could start now if you wanted

 

[Stealth Raptor]

Actually i am at work >.> dont tell anyone......oops

 

[Van Jones]

I like to counter pick Yoshi's Island when I lose to a Falco. The down slants on the map allow for down throw chains.

 

[gallax]

and they also allow for crawling without getting hit by lasers.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

We are stuck on something. Should luigi's mansion be banned or considered neutral when Pikachu is facing Falco?

 

[Piman34]

neutral: even tho we dont like it, it prevents alot of chaingrabs, just like how we dont like lylat, but we consider that a counterpick

 

[Roller]

We are stuck on something. Should luigi's mansion be banned or considered neutral when Pikachu is facing Falco?

That is an interesting point. I would say it is better for us actually, we are better campers when projectiles aren't concerned. Though many tournies ban mansion anyways...

 

[Van Jones]

Mansion is banned in most of the tournaments I go to, but I really don't care because I'm not a big fan of the stage.

 

[Piman34]

If it isn't banned though, what do you guys think it should be in this particular matchup?

 

[gallax]

the tourneys ive gone to it hasnt been banned. what about corneria? is that banned too or not?

 

[Van Jones]

Honestly, I could see it as a counter pick. Overall, it is pretty useful.

Strangely enough, Corneria is legal. It is also a counter. The low ceilings are usuful for off the top kills, but they can also be dangerous for the same reason (Pika is so light).

 

[Piman34]

I thought corneria was banned for obvious reasons, like wall-infinites for one?

 

[gallax]

in melee it could be infinite from fox's shine. but thats all i know.

 

[Van Jones]

It was used as a counter pick at an Austin tournament that I recently attended. I'm pretty sure that it was a finals match too. The rules change as you move around to different cities in Texas.

 

[gallax]

texas is one of the weirdest states though when it comes to tourney rules.

 

[Van Jones]

Yeah, you're right. No infinite grabs (IC's grab) no jab locking, no laser locking. Those rules are Houston specific.

Weird, right?

 

[gallax]

yeah they are. but the IC players in texas are very ingenious and get around that stuff. but no laser locking...thats just stupid i think.

 

[Piman34]

srsly...l2tech

 

[gallax]

what is l2tech? is he a player? more likely... an IC player?

 

[Van Jones]

learn to tech? Is that what you mean. You kids and your jive, hip terms.

 

[Piman34]

haha yeah, I was just saying that banning laser locking seemed odd, just learn to tech and not get in it, if you do its your fault..

 

[gallax]

why would we learn to tech? what was that comment directed towards?

 

[Stealth Raptor]

If you tech you can never get laser locked.

 

[Piman34]

I was simply saying that the laser lock shouldn't be banned, since it can only be performed when you miss a tech, similarly to Pikas QAL, and thats not banned. l2tech was a joke...

 

[gallax]

well the QAL is extremely difficult to pull off and i think will never be banned.

 

[Van Jones]

Lol, or we could all become gods of the the lock and then they would have to ban it.


Yeah........you can't tech out of a lock.