Stages(Next discussion: Lucario) Scheduled for Sunday

[gallax]

then gods we shall become...

 

[Stealth Raptor]

Ok need peoples help again. on Castle Siege, pika vs marth, should it be considered neutral or a ban?

 

[Piman34]

Ban, I think that the first and last stage favor marth more, the irregular placing of the platforms doesn't help us alleviate that, and plenty of space for his off edge game with short sides to get the kill relatively quickly, and the 2nd stage usually favors pika, but the statues halt his t-jolts, and even then if 2/3 favor marth, I would ban it

 

[Van Jones]

I agree completely.

 

[gallax]

well imo i say nuetral.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

Lol and this is why i need help cause i also say it is neutral. the first part is marth advantage, the second is pika advantage, the third is neutral. the second stage is wide open and allows pika to come in at any angle. he can cg marth off edges, or even just bait them somewhere near the edge and do the rolling bthrow of death. yes the pillars absorb tjolt, but you dont have to base your entire game off of it.

 

[Piman34]

well imo i say nuetral.

Evidence???

 

[gallax]

you want evidence. let me go through it then.

stage one: why it favors marth

this particular stage favors marth for a few reasons. the first are the platforms. they are relatvively close to the ground and there is an offset on the left part. it offsets lower than the right side (making the platform above it also offset below the plat on the right). why is this important? one of the most spammed moves by marth players is the fair. the nair is steadily gaining ground again too. this mean that platforms are off limit to pika since marth can get below pika and **** him. the offset also allows marth to keep pika pressured if on the stage itself(right side) since he is lower and can also use airiels in pika's face. the only part thats great for pika is the left side. this being said, the edge of the screen is closer than most levels here. so if you get fsmash(tipped too) you are prob gonna die. next reason is that since its so small ther is no where ffor pika to hide. marth controls this level like no other.

stage two: why it favors pikachu

the reason for this is simple. its huge. the platforms allow for tjolting. sure there are statues. but they can be broken down. let marth help you with that if you want to. you can still use you tjolt around them. they arent that big of a deal. this level will favor pika since we have the QAC and can play marth like a fiddle since he will chase us. it has a very high cieling and you nkow where the edge is. marths throw does not have excellent knockback, but ours does. the bthrow can roll towrds the edge and throw him off. always being a danger for marth. next, you can CG across this stage. sure he can get out by using upB, but some marths do not know this. if they do use thier dolphin slash, they will be wide open for another attack since there are no platforms to land on. WIDE OPEN FOR ATTACK.

stage three: why its nuetral

its a nearly flat stage with room to escape, but not too much so marth can still keep pressure. room to gimp marth, room to die since the cieling isnt that high. plain and simple.

OVERALL: NUETRAL!!!

 

[Piman34]

Now why can't you be this insightful during our chatroom conversations

I guess it would be more of a neutral, but even still, I would probably ban it, and it might be up to personal choice? I mean being a neutral / ban either way its something that shouldn't be a first pick to use against marth, that makes sense to me anyway

 

[Stealth Raptor]

Well this thread is to be an overall guide to a newer pikachu. as you develop your skills though you may attain an affinity to certain stages that allow you to o better on them where others may not. conversly, you may develop a relationship with a stage where it hates you, everyone who plays you on it owns you, etc. Then it becomes moreof a personal choice.

 

[gallax]

i am that insightful in our chats. you just need ask me to say explain. i will explain. but your right about not picking it first. or at all.

 

[Piman34]

sounds good, to both of you, I look forward to smashville cuz its amazing, but I think that there are good choices that should be banned occasionally, personally this is one for me. Or if we could ban parts of the tranformation, like when it goes to stage 3, we stop fighting, and wait for it to transform again and resume...that would be sick:bigrocket

 

[gallax]

that would be kool, but it will never happen in tourneys due to time constraints.

i uploaded marth's stage tips!!!!!!!!

 

[Piman34]

screw time constraints! i will petition to do this at the next tourney I go to, see if it holds any clout and bring the results, lol

 

[Van Jones]

Or if we could ban parts of the tranformation, like when it goes to stage 3, we stop fighting, and wait for it to transform again and resume...that would be sick:bigrocket

Ok, even though I am not a Castle Siege Fan I still have to disagree with this. While we do break up this stage into 3 parts during our discussions, it is still one stage. If this ever happends (I don't think it will and I hope it doesn't) then you have to allow the same thing for stages like DP , RC, or any other stage that shifts.

Just my $0.02.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

My bro plays a good ZSS so i know the stages to use against him, and i will explain what i can.

Counterpick: Luigis Mansion (she can't throw armor past the pillars that hold the house up).
Rainbow Cruise: (there are no ledges for most of the stage, which can lead to ZSS getting easily gimped.)
Lylat Cruise: (ZSS can't grab the ledge if she is under the little flap, which is fairly easy to knock her under)
Castle Siege: (Has lots of slants so armor will become less useful, also large so easy forward-b kill will be harder. CG can sometimes mean death for her)
Frigate Orpheon: (overall good pikachu level, overall bad ZSS level, try to abuse the first part of the level where there is no ledge on the right side. Can you say gimp?)

Ban: Pirate Ship (ZSS never dies on this level)

Neutrals: The rest

Special: Brinstar is a very odd stage against ZSS, there are good things and bad. If she starts on the right side, she will lose 2 armor pieces. However, she can up-b from anywhere under the stage as long as she isn't too far down and grab either ledge. Also, the little balls in the middle are easy to down-b on as ZSS and she will instantly land. Very very strange level, i don't advise a counterpick unless you yourself are good on the level. Otherwise, stay away.

Lol and this is why i need help cause i also say it is neutral. the first part is marth advantage, the second is pika advantage, the third is neutral. the second stage is wide open and allows pika to come in at any angle. he can cg marth off edges, or even just bait them somewhere near the edge and do the rolling bthrow of death. yes the pillars absorb tjolt, but you dont have to base your entire game off of it.

Um...you can't CG marth at all, he can DI up+away and jump out of it... You shouldn't try to bait a marth near the edge of the level because he can space you with fairs and forward-B's which makes you in a worse position than if you just stayed in the middle. Also, if marth F-smashes a statue, the F-Smash instantly becomes a tipper, so don't **** with that. Space your forward and down tilts really well, it can really mess with a marth if they can't get to you

 

[gallax]

now for ZSS...i would think that pokemon stadium 1 and castel siege would be more advantageous for pika. i would definately say that delphino helps her more than pika. but as for battle fireld and smashville...nuetral?

 

[Van Jones]

Actually, the DP and RC are my counter picks when playing Zamus. When playing against Zamus you have to remember her main weakness: her tether recovery. She can use her tether to recover from really long distances, but if you are edge guarding she can't recover (except for her down b).

Any stage with multiple transitions can be devastating to Zamus. The only exception that this would be Halbred. I'll try to get a couple of vids of me and my friends Zamus up for this match up.

 

[gallax]

but that still leaves me with battlefield and smashville as nuetrals. anyone disagreeagree with this?

i also have pokemon stadium and castle siege as advantage pika. any disagree/agree with this?

 

[Van Jones]

I very much disagree with battlefield as a neutral. Stages with lots of platforms are great for Zamus because of her vertical combo ing abilities. I would even add the first two parts of CS because of this very reason. If you get stuck on a platform and Zamus is under your (assuming your opponent knows what he/she is doing), you are about to get owned.

PS is ok as a neutral. Smashville would probably end up as a neutral, but I use it as a counter pick simply because I am comfortable on it.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I very much disagree with battlefield as a neutral. Stages with lots of platforms are great for Zamus because of her vertical combo ing abilities. I would even add the first two parts of CS because of this very reason. If you get stuck on a platform and Zamus is under your (assuming your opponent knows what he/she is doing), you are about to get owned.

PS is ok as a neutral. Smashville would probably end up as a neutral, but I use it as a counter pick simply because I am comfortable on it.

If you are above a Zamus, you will not get owned too badly, worst she could do is up air to up-b, which you can DI out of. If she tries to just up-b u on the platform, you can shield after the first one. No big thread, i have like 5 or 6 matches of me vs my brothers ZSS coming up soon so ill show them here.

 

[gallax]

ok so i did G&W on my own. what do you think?

advantage pika: Battle Filed, Yoshi's Island, Pokemon Stadium 1, Delphino Plaza, Luigis Mansion, Brinstar

nuetral: Smashville, lylat cruise, frigate orpheon, halberd

ban: rainbow cruise, pirate ship, castle siege

these are in no particular orser just yet.

 

[Piman34]

why ban castle seige? Jw, since I wasn't there for a discussion?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

IMO, fighting a good G&W, switch to your secondary, i think the MU is way too hard for pikachu if the G&W knows what he is doing. I have no other input on the matter.

 

[gallax]

well my friend mains G&W and i know this pretty well. pika can be challenging. what sucks though is if im a life ahead he always gets lucky with his 9 hammer. but i made this list myself. i also did snake, MK, and zelda. im gonna post those later today though.

Meta Knight

advanate pika: FD, YI, Pirate Ship(PS), Halberd, Castle Siege(CS), Lylat Cruise(LC)

disadvantage pika: delphino plaza(DP), pokemon stadium 1(PS1), rainbow cruise(RC), Brinstar

nuetral: Frigate Orpheon(FO), Luigi's Mansion(LM), BF, Smashville(SV)

Snake

advantage pika: FD, RC, DP, PS, PS1, CS

disadvantge pika: LM, LC, Brinstar,

nuetral: BF, SV, YI, FO, halberd

 

[Stealth Raptor]

Ok here is the results for our oli discussion.

Pokemon Stadium 1
neutral

Luigis mansion
BAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Delphino Plaza
counter

Castle siege
Ban

Pirate Ship
Neutral

rainbow cruise
neutral?

frigate orpheon
COUNTER

Halbred
Neutral

Brinstar
?

Battlefield
BAN

FD
weak counter

Yoshis Island
nuetral

lylat cruise
ban

smashville
ban?

The ones with a ? we are unsure of. any help would be appreciated.

 

[gallax]

a few things.

rainbow cruise- ban

smashville- definately ban!!!!

brinstar- nuetral

luigis mansion- definately not ban. let me explain.

olimar depends on his pikmin for EVERYTHING. you can not get bombarded behind a wall. it sure you can get smashed still, but that is the case with every stage. if anything it will slow his pikmin down and give you more time to react. im not sure, but i dont think his pikmin can be usmashed through the roof. im gonnna check it out. more reason to play on that stage though. i like this stage a lot against olimar.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Galax, can you put specific times when the chat will be up for the stage discussion, it would be helpful to all who actually help, and for people who want to know why.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

a few things.

rainbow cruise- ban

smashville- definately ban!!!!

brinstar- nuetral

luigis mansion- definately not ban. let me explain.

olimar depends on his pikmin for EVERYTHING. you can not get bombarded behind a wall. it sure you can get smashed still, but that is the case with every stage. if anything it will slow his pikmin down and give you more time to react. im not sure, but i dont think his pikmin can be usmashed through the roof. im gonnna check it out. more reason to play on that stage though. i like this stage a lot against olimar.

first off, luigis mansion is an EXCELLENT place for oli. here is why.
if you are above oli those pikmin go through the floors. yes they can go through the roof.
fsmash and dsmash go through the pillars.
olimar is not hindered by the bad edges.
and this is a bad overall pika stage.
as fino said: huge Olimar advantage. next stage.
if you want to discuss with him about it thats fine but i trust his judgement as an oli player, not only that but the best one of the clan.

 

[gallax]

ok stealth. good points. i am convinced.

and i will put specific times when we are gonna be on and who we will be discussing. a schedule if you will and why we are discussing them.

 

[Pikaville]

Thats weird I love Lylat cruise.

 

[gallax]

ok guys. i am gonna do the schedule on a weekly basis type of thing. i need to get my schedule for work tomorrow then i will update this post with a schedule for the stage talks that we are gonna have.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

bump.

10

 

[Piman34]

hey guys, start paying attention to the title of this thread, gallax will change it when something new is scheduled, i.e. when he's available to discuss stages and stuff, and there is a chatroom we use, its in a separate thread, and the password is available to pika mains who wanna join

 

[krehz]

cool i like the thread title update and i should be on tonight guys what time?? 10pm est?

 

[Van Jones]

Lol, I'll be there...like always.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

Ok per request i am going to post tonights conversation. It IS a long read so read at your own risk. we sorta just stopped at the end. And i made many edits from the, uhhh little diversions we had. so if you see a weird continuity problem, or see big time gaps, that is why.

[22:58] gallax: the only thing that i dont like as zelda on FD is that there are no plats to land a bair/fair on pika
[22:58] Krehz: no gallax is the god of all pika knowledge that is why he has the title O_o
[22:58] gallax: he is so small it terribly difficult to land it
[22:59] gallax: so sheik on FD
[22:59] gallax: needles
[23:00] Krehz: only prob for pika is dont get too close, and dont go above zelda
[23:00] thebadnewsbear06: lol, super stoping power. but dosent really drain shield so
[23:00] Krehz: ko'd easy
[23:00] thebadnewsbear06: good combos out of utilt
[23:00] thebadnewsbear06: but very vunerable to pika dthrow combo
[23:00] Krehz: i say use a lot of airs followed by well timed tjolts on FD
[23:01] Krehz: and grabs too
[23:01] gallax: on sheik?
[23:01] Stealth Raptor: combo into a grab
[23:01] Stealth Raptor: fair into grab
[23:01] Krehz: well both i guess
[23:01] Stealth Raptor: tjolt into follow up grab
[23:01] Stealth Raptor: an dif she is at 50
[23:01] Stealth Raptor: grab anyway
[23:01] Krehz: just tougher on zelda
[23:01] Stealth Raptor: cause you can get like 30 more lol
[23:01] thebadnewsbear06: fair>dtilt>rungrab>down throw etc
[23:01] Krehz: lol robot chicken
[23:01] Stealth Raptor: why dtilt?
[23:02] Stealth Raptor: just grab
[23:02] gallax: i think that FD is nuetral for both parties
[23:02] Krehz: ya
[23:02] gallax: any disagreements?
[23:02] Krehz: agreed by all next....
[23:02] gallax: yeah there should be no dtilt in there
[23:03] gallax: BF
[23:03] thebadnewsbear06: because it can be used kinda as a tech chase, most people are trying to get out of the dfair cause they know the throw is coming so u can occasional use dtlit to grab like mk does
[23:03] gallax: where did bunny go in all this?
[23:03] Krehz: lol
[23:03] Stealth Raptor: will the grab not land?
[23:03] Krehz: she hopped away? O_o
[23:03] Stealth Raptor: if it lands anyway
[23:03] Stealth Raptor: lol
[23:03] thebadnewsbear06: ,but mostly on heavies so it dosent really apply here
[23:03] thebadnewsbear06:
[23:04] Kawaii Bunny: I'm still here lol
[23:04] gallax: BF
[23:04] Kawaii Bunny: Sorry about that.
[23:04] gallax: great for sheik i think
[23:04] Krehz: shiek can be CG'd tho
[23:04] Stealth Raptor: but good enough
[23:04] Stealth Raptor: ?
[23:04] Krehz: to like 60 i think
[23:04] gallax: she is way too fast and can "hop" around the plats with ease making our life a hell
[23:04] Stealth Raptor: i havent played any elite shiekd
[23:04] gallax: lets assume we cant CG
[23:04] Stealth Raptor: that makes it a hard matchup
[23:04] Kawaii Bunny: Oh yeah Zelda kills on BF
[23:04] gallax: to help these stage selections
[23:04] gallax: i play one
[23:05] Kawaii Bunny: Especially when she's under you
[23:05] gallax: mad crazy
[23:05] gallax: mos def
[23:05] Stealth Raptor: **** usmash
[23:05] Krehz: ys
[23:05] gallax: i love BF as zelda
[23:05] Stealth Raptor: so much priority and a huge hit box
[23:05] Krehz: oh we are on BF now?
[23:05] Krehz: lol oops
[23:05] gallax: yep
[23:05] Krehz: ok ya i say adv shiek
[23:05] thebadnewsbear06: i can deal with shiek on bf, however zelda...not so much
[23:05] gallax: even though sheik has an advantage
[23:06] Stealth Raptor: so cp for shiek ban for zelda?
[23:06] gallax: i dont think its too much to say ban it
[23:06] gallax: its better for sheik
[23:06] thebadnewsbear06: ban
[23:06] gallax: i say nuetral sheik
[23:06] gallax: ban zelda
[23:06] Krehz: i say ban zelda
[23:07] Krehz: ya prob N shiek
[23:07] gallax: and sheik...
[23:07] Krehz: but barely
[23:07] Krehz: almost ban
[23:07] gallax: how bout this
[23:07] gallax: put it as special
[23:07] thebadnewsbear06: this convo is kinda weird, most people who play zelda/shiek correctly use both so if we say ban shouldnt it just be ban and not ban on and not the other
[23:08] Krehz: we are doing it seperate and comparing
[23:08] gallax: depends on the sheik player
[23:08] Krehz: if it was combined i say ban but seperate.....
[23:09] gallax: im gonna put it in the special section
[23:09] gallax: like the zamus on brinstar
[23:09] gallax: depends on the player
[23:09] Krehz: ya[23:09] gallax: ok next
[23:09] gallax: smashville
[23:09] Kawaii Bunny: Seems about neutral to me.
[23:10] Krehz: ya n to me
[23:10] gallax: i like this stage against zelda
[23:10] gallax: its small
[23:10] Krehz: for shiek anyway
[23:10] gallax: easy for pressure
[23:10] thebadnewsbear06: less platform coverage
[23:10] Krehz: ya ya and recavery is gimped mega
[23:11] Krehz: a lot of nair and u are good o go
[23:11] gallax: i like it against zelda
[23:11] gallax: but nuetral for sheik
[23:11] gallax: any disagreements?
[23:11] Kawaii Bunny: Nope.
[23:11] Krehz: nope
[23:11] Stealth Raptor: nope
[23:11] thebadnewsbear06: negative
[23:12] gallax: in the end i think smashville will be one of the best choices
[23:12] gallax: imo though
[23:12] gallax: but onto the next stage
[23:12] gallax: lylat cruise
[23:12] Stealth Raptor: zelda recovery gimp
[23:12] Stealth Raptor: i mean
[23:12] Stealth Raptor: stage gimp
[23:12] Stealth Raptor: lol
[23:12] thebadnewsbear06: tilting stage
[23:12] Krehz: ya
[23:13] Kawaii Bunny: Yeah
[23:13] gallax: her recovery is weird
[23:13] Kawaii Bunny: Same for Sheik.
[23:13] Krehz: ilol i don care 4 lylat,
[23:13] Stealth Raptor: pikas qa aoids it generally
[23:13] Krehz: but i still say pika wiwns
[23:13] Stealth Raptor: i think this is a good cp for both
[23:13] thebadnewsbear06: its sheik who doesnt ledge group out of up b right, i cant remember which one
[23:13] Stealth Raptor: one of the best imo
[23:13] Krehz: and needles w/shiek can be gimped
[23:14] gallax: i like it against sheik
[23:14] gallax: but not against zelda
[23:14] gallax: anywhere where zelda has room
[23:14] gallax: and plats
[23:14] gallax: not too good
[23:14] Stealth Raptor: her ecovery hurts her so bad
[23:14] Krehz: ya just stay low tho
[23:14] Stealth Raptor: i have seen so many sputters
[23:14] Krehz: and dodge
[23:14] Krehz: ya
[23:14] Stealth Raptor: i would say cp anyway
[23:14] gallax: but any good zelda player will DI correctly to make it so that she cna recover
[23:14] Stealth Raptor: maybe
[23:14] Krehz: as zelda, i HATE this stage
[23:15] Stealth Raptor: i play one who does di right
[23:15] Stealth Raptor: it is just bad
[23:15] gallax: as zelda i love this stage
[23:15] Krehz: even donig that tho
[23:15] Krehz: lol y is that?
[23:16] gallax: so time to vote
[23:16] gallax: all in favor of cp'ing LC for zelda say so
[23:16] Stealth Raptor: i say cp
[23:16] gallax: all in favor of nuetral so so
[23:16] thebadnewsbear06: counter, i guess just beware of platform play w/zelda
[23:16] Krehz: I
[23:17] thebadnewsbear06: actually
[23:17] gallax: krehz says what?
[23:17] thebadnewsbear06: neutral
[23:17] thebadnewsbear06: i really dont like that stage, neutral
[23:17] Kawaii Bunny: Counterpick.
[23:17] Krehz: krehz says I
[23:17] Stealth Raptor: says neutral or cp?
[23:17] gallax: krehz man
[23:17] gallax: is that for nuetral or co
[23:17] Krehz: like in a jury
[23:17] Krehz: co lol
[23:17] Krehz: oh oops
[23:17] Stealth Raptor: lol
[23:17] gallax: ok
[23:17] Stealth Raptor: so 3 cp 2 neutral
[23:17] Krehz: i didnt see both
[23:18] Krehz: i say grabs to get her offstage
[23:18] gallax: well its a majority vote
[23:18] gallax: now for sheik
[23:18] thebadnewsbear06: counter against sheik
[23:18] gallax: cp for lylat?
[23:18] Krehz: ya C against shiek as well
[23:19] thebadnewsbear06: lol, why am i teal. i wanna be red
[23:19] Krehz: lol
[23:19] Krehz: i wanna b yellow
[23:19] gallax: bunny and stealth
[23:19] gallax: what say you
[23:19] Kawaii Bunny: CP..
[23:19] Stealth Raptor: CP
[23:19] gallax: whats with the ...
[23:19] Krehz: stealth?
[23:19] Stealth Raptor: lol
[23:20] gallax: ah
[23:20] Krehz: lol
[23:20] Kawaii Bunny: And the extra period was an accident.
[23:20] gallax: last nuetral for sicussion
[23:20] gallax: YI
[23:20] Krehz: hmmm
[23:20] Stealth Raptor: mmmmm sicussion
[23:20] Stealth Raptor: tasty
[23:20] Krehz: zelda ban
[23:20] Meebo Message: guest6545746 is now known as ESAM
[23:20] thebadnewsbear06: uh-oh
[23:20] ESAM: cam in at a good time
[23:20] gallax: i like this as CP for both
[23:20] Stealth Raptor: oh hey
[23:21] ESAM: what is be discussion?
[23:21] gallax: ESAM
[23:21] gallax: !!!!!!
[23:21] Krehz: i say zelda ban
[23:21] Krehz: hello
[23:21] gallax: i was just saying earlier how it would aweosome to have you here
[23:21] ESAM: lol
[23:21] Krehz: lol so where is anther lol
[23:21] Kawaii Bunny: Hey ESAM.
[23:21] ESAM: hey
[23:21] ESAM: anther is a myth
[23:21] gallax: now all we need is anther
[23:21] ESAM: he only comes to tournaments
[23:21] gallax: ok
[23:21] Krehz: lol
[23:21] Krehz: ya
[23:21] Krehz: glad u came Esam
[23:21] gallax: we are discussin zelda/sheik
[23:21] gallax: first as separate
[23:21] ESAM: zelda is way harder
[23:22] thebadnewsbear06: lol, im gonna mess around with gannon
[23:22] gallax: then when we have stage for both we are gonna say the bes choices
[23:22] ESAM: hm..
[23:22] gallax: i said that about zelda earlier
[23:22] gallax: we are talking about YI now
[23:22] Krehz: freaking awesome crowd tonight
[23:22] ESAM: are we on zelda or sheik?
[23:22] gallax: yeah it is
[23:22] thebadnewsbear06: lol, not just me and stealth for once
[23:22] Krehz: i say ban zelda mainly cuz of u smash and u air
[23:22] gallax: zelda
[23:22] gallax: and me you *******
[23:22] gallax: im always here too
[23:22] ESAM: lol
[23:23] thebadnewsbear06: yeah....ok
[23:23] ESAM: Vulgariity will get you nowhere sir
[23:23] gallax: oh well
[23:23] gallax: my bad
[23:23] Krehz: ya
[23:23] ESAM: lol
[23:23] ESAM: so yeah...i lost to my bro there in a tournament
[23:23] gallax: with sheik or zelda?
[23:23] ESAM: zelda
[23:24] gallax: yes you are krehz
[23:24] Krehz: lol
[23:24] Krehz: ok ya go
[23:24] gallax: so all in favor of ban for YI say so
[23:24] ESAM: hi 5
[23:24] Krehz: i sya ban 4 zelda IMO
[23:24] gallax: for zelda
[23:24] ESAM: Its not the first choice of ban...
[23:24] ESAM: but yeah, i would ban it
[23:24] gallax: no
[23:24] gallax: mos def not
[23:25] Kawaii Bunny: Seems neutral. o_o;
[23:25] gallax: but as being advantageous for zelda
[23:25] ESAM: if i could ban more than 1 stage that would be one of them
[23:25] gallax: a ban
[23:25] Kawaii Bunny: Actually
[23:25] Kawaii Bunny: That platform
[23:25] Kawaii Bunny: Ban.
[23:25] Krehz: ya
[23:25] thebadnewsbear06: ban
[23:25] Krehz: zelda and platform = usmash
[23:25] gallax: now for sheik
[23:25] Krehz: i sya N of CP
[23:25] ESAM: sheik i would say its pikas advantage on YI
[23:26] Krehz: or*
[23:26] thebadnewsbear06: neutral
[23:26] gallax: i like this against her
[23:26] ESAM: like i said before, its a CP, but its not the first choice
[23:26] Krehz: ya
[23:26] Krehz: same here
[23:26] gallax: yeah that comes later
[23:29] gallax: next is PS1
[23:30] ESAM: zelda is even or ban for pika
[23:30] gallax: i love this against sheik
[23:30] thebadnewsbear06: also, cp
[23:30] gallax: i mean love
[23:30] gallax: but nuetral for zelda
[23:30] Krehz: i like it
[23:30] Krehz: as pika
[23:30] ESAM: neutral for zelda and CP for sheik
[23:30] Krehz: i just like that stage
[23:30] Krehz: so i would say CP
[23:31] Stealth Raptor: i agree with that
[23:31] gallax: kool
[23:31] gallax: this is going a lot better than the first one we had
[23:31] Krehz: agree with wat
[23:31] Stealth Raptor: with esam
[23:31] Krehz: ah
[23:31] gallax: 45 mins and halfway done
[23:31] Krehz: k
[23:31] ESAM: why is there no chad?
[23:31] gallax: !
[23:31] gallax: DP is next
[23:31] thebadnewsbear06: lol, we got side tracked a lot on the other one
[23:31] ESAM: advantage on both for pika
[23:31] gallax: chad....
[23:31] ESAM: lol
[23:31] Krehz: umm pika
[23:32] thebadnewsbear06: yeah, there ends up being a lot of open area on dp
[23:32] Krehz: CP!
[23:32] gallax: to much work for zelda
[23:32] Krehz: agree ppl?
[23:32] gallax: way to much
[23:32] ESAM: i agree
[23:32] thebadnewsbear06: cp
[23:32] gallax: she has to keep up with the ever moving pika on this stage
[23:32] Krehz: so agreed
[23:32] Krehz: Cp
[23:32] ESAM: but you have to make sure to keep close
[23:32] gallax: cp for both
[23:32] Krehz: ya
[23:32] Krehz: ok next
[23:32] ESAM: because zelda can camp your *** off
[23:32] Krehz: lol
[23:33] Krehz: just keep moving
[23:33] gallax: its more like baiting for me
[23:33] Krehz: dont let up
[23:33] thebadnewsbear06: you just have to approach carefullly
[23:33] gallax: well the strategy is yet to come
[23:33] Krehz: slam attacks down her hroat
[23:33] Krehz: throat*
[23:33] ESAM: anyway Castle siege next?
[23:33] gallax: next
[23:33] gallax: RC
[23:33] ESAM: or not
[23:33] Krehz: pressure i say
[23:33] Krehz: lol
[23:35] ESAM: neutral i would say
[23:35] Krehz: i say CP
[23:35] Krehz: they are slower
[23:35] ESAM: zelda can get messed up with the floaty part
[23:35] Stealth Raptor: zelda or sheik
[23:35] ESAM: shiek is neutral
[23:35] Krehz: ya
[23:35] ESAM: so yeah....neutral shiek, CP zelda
[23:35] Krehz: yes, but i think shiek is fast, but gimped recovery
[23:35] gallax: i am thinking that since its always moving i like against zelda
[23:35] ESAM: zelda doesn't have time to camp you
[23:36] Krehz: especially on pend.
[23:36] gallax: except she cna really camp here
[23:36] gallax: if she get high enough in time
[23:36] thebadnewsbear06: yeah. shiek can get pretty boned on this stage, im gonna go cp
[23:36] gallax: and/or she stay away to the left to follow it on the top part of the lever
[23:36] ESAM: if she camps you from above just thunder her
[23:36] gallax: level*
[23:36] ESAM: the carpets will make it impossible for her to punish you for it
[23:36] gallax: she can reflect though
[23:36] gallax: she could expect it
[23:37] Krehz: lol not shiek
[23:37] gallax: ok true
[23:37] ESAM: whatever she is on will block the thunder from coming down to you
[23:37] gallax: not harmful for us
[23:37] Krehz: zelda
[23:37] ESAM: so you are safe
[23:37] ESAM: oh
[23:37] gallax: only for her if she messes up
[23:37] ESAM: >_>
[23:37] ESAM: you can do that to both
[23:37] ESAM: shiek isn't a camping character
[23:37] Krehz: no
[23:37] Stealth Raptor: definitely not
[23:37] gallax: no she isnt
[23:37] gallax: her needles are for disrupting
[23:37] Krehz: shiek almost always attack
[23:37] ESAM: i would say CP for sheik, and neutral for zelda
[23:37] Krehz: unrelentlessly
[23:37] Krehz: ?
[23:38] Krehz: zelda?
[23:38] gallax: i say nuetral for sheik and CP for zelda
[23:38] ESAM: >_>
[23:38] Stealth Raptor: i agree
[23:38] Krehz: i say CP both
[23:38] ESAM: with who
[23:38] gallax: kind opposite esam
[23:38] gallax: sorry dude
[23:38] ESAM: lol its fien
[23:38] ESAM: its close either way
[23:38] Krehz: lol
[23:38] ESAM: again not my first choice, especially cuz tournaments i go to won't have it
[23:38] gallax: doesnt really matter for us anyways
[23:38] gallax: lol
[23:38] Krehz: lol any way ya next
[23:38] Krehz: lol
[23:44] ESAM: so yeah, ban for zelda definitely
[23:44] Krehz: ya
[23:44] Krehz: ban
[23:44] ESAM: what does everybody say to sheik?
[23:44] gallax: what seems to be the general consensus is ban zelda nuetral sheik
[23:44] Stealth Raptor: cp shiek
[23:44] Stealth Raptor: overall good pika stage
[23:44] Krehz: ?
[23:44] Krehz: on shiek?
[23:44] ESAM: i would have to agree
[23:44] ESAM: well no
[23:44] ESAM: its neutral
[23:44] Krehz: really?
[23:44] ESAM: neutral against sheik
[23:44] Krehz: ah
[23:44] gallax: imo i just said it
[23:44] gallax: ban zelda
[23:45] gallax: nuetral sheik
[23:45] Krehz: ya i would say tht
[23:45] ESAM: with slight advantage on pikas part
[23:45] ESAM: with slight advantage on pikas part
[23:45] Krehz: ya
[23:45] Krehz: i guess
[23:45] ESAM: but not enough to CP
[23:45] Krehz: so zelda ban shiek N
[23:45] ESAM: yeah
[23:45] Stealth Raptor: i can live with that
[23:45] gallax: ok
[23:45] Krehz: k
[23:45] gallax: i dont think this will be debated much
[23:45] ESAM: where did bear go?
[23:45] gallax: Luigi's mansion
[23:45] Krehz: hmmmm bunny and bear? lol
[23:45] ESAM: i ****ing hate that stage
[23:45] gallax: hes playing ganon on wifi
[23:45] ESAM: but CP for both
[23:45] ESAM: definitely
[23:45] Stealth Raptor: i ate him for breakfast
[23:45] Stealth Raptor: lol yeah i hate it too
[23:45] Krehz: ya i HAAAAAAAAATE LM
[23:45] ESAM: you can't camp on that level
[23:45] thebadnewsbear06: lol my bad
[23:45] Krehz: lol
[23:46] gallax: but seriously though
[23:46] ESAM: and the ceilings like pika combo to no end
[23:46] gallax: zelda and sheik have no where to go
[23:46] thebadnewsbear06: are we talking about lm??
[23:46] ESAM: but watch out for Usmash
[23:46] gallax: we can so trap them here
[23:46] Krehz: yes
[23:46] thebadnewsbear06: ok
[23:46] ESAM: zeldas u-smash = owned pikachu
[23:46] Krehz: ummm i say N
[23:46] thebadnewsbear06: i agree
[23:46] gallax: the uair has so much lag its esy to QA out of the way
[23:46] gallax: if above her
[23:46] Krehz: just cuz it is a bad sage 4 both
[23:46] ESAM: id say CP zelda
[23:46] ESAM: CP both actually
[23:46] ESAM: is my feel
[23:46] Krehz: ?
[23:46] ESAM: CP against both
[23:47] Krehz: hmmmm
[23:47] gallax: im gonna go out and say CP for both too
[23:47] ESAM:
[23:47] thebadnewsbear06: ehh, i would say neutral but w/e
[23:47] Krehz: well zelda can be gimped i agree
[23:47] ESAM: i like when people agree
[23:47] Krehz: but shiek?
[23:47] gallax: why do you say nuetral bear
[23:47] ESAM: sheik gets comboed so easily
[23:47] Krehz: ah GP
[23:47] gallax: utilts wreck her
[23:47] ESAM: even easier because of the ceilings
[23:47] gallax: so bad here
[23:47] Krehz: ya
[23:47] ESAM: and u-throws
[23:47] ESAM: to anything
[23:47] gallax: didnt think of that
[23:47] Krehz: i guess so
[23:47] gallax: thats good
[23:47] thebadnewsbear06: because she can utilt you and bounce you right back down into it
[23:47] ESAM: i saw a samus do it
[23:48] Krehz: lol i am just biased i guess
[23:48] thebadnewsbear06: plus its very easy to miss with thunder b/c of high ceilings
[23:48] ESAM: and its a good pika stage
[23:48] ESAM: >_> thunder isn't a necessity
[23:48] Krehz: i know
[23:48] gallax: what about when the stage is crumbled down
[23:48] Stealth Raptor: no it isnt lol
[23:48] Stealth Raptor: ba pika stage
[23:48] gallax: or parts or missing
[23:48] ESAM: i don't use it that much
[23:48] ESAM: i like that level for pika
[23:48] thebadnewsbear06: lol, you should try to utillize everything when you play
[23:48] Krehz: but tjolts help a lot
[23:48] ESAM: or maybe its just worse for ZSS which is my main opponent
[23:48] Krehz: oh andd dont go above zelda
[23:49] Krehz: uair
[23:49] ESAM: you should never go above zelda either way >.>
[23:49] Krehz: through the platform
[23:49] Krehz: lol
[23:49] ESAM: yeah, stay on the bottom
[23:49] thebadnewsbear06: if we are talking about lm a would not cp against zelda.
[23:49] gallax: thats old new
[23:49] Krehz: ya
[23:49] thebadnewsbear06: the whole thing is a platform
[23:49] Krehz: lol i know
[23:49] Krehz: just clearing that up
[23:49] gallax: itis
[23:49] ESAM: i guess its even for zelda
[23:49] ESAM: its hard to get to her
[23:49] gallax: but bad mauneverablity
[23:49] Krehz: ya so stay below
[23:49] ESAM: cuz its small opening
[23:49] Krehz: ya
[23:49] ESAM: so she can f-smash you to keep you away
[23:49] Krehz: yep
[23:49] thebadnewsbear06: yup
[23:49] gallax: jabs too
[23:50] thebadnewsbear06: yup again
[23:50] Krehz: so CP zelda all agree?
[23:50] Stealth Raptor: yes double cp
[23:50] ESAM: yeah...so CP sheik and neutral zelda
[23:50] gallax: mos def]
[23:50] Stealth Raptor: ok
[23:50] ESAM: or not
[23:50] Krehz: lol
[23:50] Stealth Raptor: nvm prefer neutral zelda
[23:50] thebadnewsbear06: cp sheik neutral zelda
[23:50] Krehz: lol
[23:50] gallax: ok
[23:50] gallax: next stage
[23:50] ESAM: yay
[23:50] gallax: castle siege
[23:50] Krehz:
[23:57] Krehz: ok
[23:57] ESAM: ban against zelda CP sheik
[23:57] gallax: ok
[23:57] Krehz: ya
[23:57] Stealth Raptor: why zelda?
[23:57] gallax: beat me to it
[23:57] Stealth Raptor: obvious shiek
[23:57] Krehz: usmash
[23:57] Krehz: b
[23:57] ESAM: Zelda = camp
[23:58] ESAM: the 2nd part ***** me
[23:58] Krehz: ya
[23:58] ESAM: i hate that part
[23:58] ESAM: third part is also large
[23:58] gallax: you know
[23:58] Krehz: well sorta 3rd too
[23:58] ESAM: so she can camp there
[23:58] ESAM: first part is even
[23:58] Krehz: ya lol
[23:58] Krehz: ya
[23:58] ESAM: but with the platforms she can SH uair
[23:58] Krehz: but N B suck
[23:58] gallax: playing sheik on that level its kinda worth it to wait to cg her across the board and into oblivion
[23:58] ESAM: which can be irritating
[23:58] Krehz: s
[23:58] ESAM: thats why i said CP sheik there
[23:59] Krehz: ya
[23:59] ESAM: agreement?
[23:59] gallax: i think DDD loves that stage
[23:59] Stealth Raptor: duh lol
[23:59] Krehz: yep
[23:59] gallax: but thats for another day
[23:59] ESAM: Yeah, but not against pika
[23:59] gallax: cuz no cg's
[23:59] gallax: we can
[23:59] ESAM: oh
[23:59] gallax: but not the D3
[23:59] ESAM: whatever
[23:59] ESAM: get off of D3
[23:59] ESAM: zelda sheik is now
[00:00] Krehz: lol
[00:00] ESAM: so yeah, agree that ban against zelda CP a sheik?
[00:00] gallax: well then
[00:00] gallax: next up is frigate orpheon
[00:00] ESAM: Even zelda...idk about sheik
[00:00] gallax: agreed
[00:00] gallax: for FO
[00:00] Krehz: N i say
[00:00] gallax: i sy good against zelda
[00:00] gallax: the first part is good for us
[00:00] gallax: the flipped part
[00:01] Krehz: no super adv for either
[00:01] gallax: kinda even
[00:01] gallax: maybe a little zelda at mos
[00:01] gallax: sheik...
[00:01] gallax: hmm
[00:01] gallax: let me think
[00:01] ESAM: first part is a muchs horter time
[00:01] Stealth Raptor: i am leaning towrds n zelda cp shiek
[00:01] ESAM: me too
[00:01] gallax: nuetral
[00:01] ESAM: well Sheik pika is a really good MU so anywhere you CP is good
[00:01] ESAM: to be honest
[00:01] ESAM:
[00:01] Krehz: lol
[00:02] Stealth Raptor: i agree lol
[00:02] ESAM: if you lose to a sheik the sheik must be so much better than you
[00:02] ESAM: zelda on the other hand
[00:02] gallax: we havent had one ban against her actually
[00:02] thebadnewsbear06: lol
[00:02] Krehz: so verdict?
[00:02] ESAM: CP sheik N zelda
[00:02] Krehz: lol one post by bear to say lol
[00:02] ESAM: lol
[00:02] Stealth Raptor: lol
[00:02] ESAM: he is a man of few words
[00:02] Krehz:
[00:02] gallax: lol
[00:02] Krehz: no kiddin
[00:02] ESAM:
[00:03] gallax: next up is halberd
[00:04] gallax: cp sheik
[00:04] Krehz: ah
[00:04] ESAM: CP sheik
[00:04] ESAM: lol
[00:04] Stealth Raptor: cp shiek
[00:04] gallax: ban zelda
[00:04] ESAM: and...
[00:04] Krehz: halberd ya CP shiek
[00:04] ESAM: um...
[00:04] ESAM: yeah ban zelda
[00:04] Krehz: ya def ban zelda
[00:04] thebadnewsbear06: lol i agree
[00:04] gallax: ban a little more than nuetral
[00:04] thebadnewsbear06: stupid platforms
[00:04] Krehz: lol so ban cuz of shiek?
[00:04] ESAM: the platforms aren't the bad part
[00:04] ESAM: its just that part is huge
[00:04] gallax: only cuz of the plat
[00:04] ESAM: and the obstacles can make you separate
[00:04] ESAM: but what works
[00:05] Krehz: i mean zelda?
[00:05] ESAM: is when the laser targets you, get the zelda OFF THE STAGE
[00:05] ESAM: then run and grab teh ledge so the laser targets there and it stuns them if they try to auto sweetstpot
[00:05] ESAM: and yeah, ban zelda, CP sheik
[00:05] gallax: then get the laser to fire on the ledge
[00:05] ESAM: yeah, i did that in a recorded match i think
[00:05] ESAM: brb lemme find it
[00:05] Stealth Raptor: lol
[00:06] Krehz: so will we ban it for both cuz of zelda?
[00:06] gallax: i try and get a throw in there if it trgets me
[00:06] Stealth Raptor: some dont use zelda
[00:06] gallax: cp sheik
[00:06] gallax: ban zelda
[00:06] Krehz: since we do have options?
[00:06] Stealth Raptor: have to look ahead for that
[00:06] Krehz: ya
[00:06] ESAM: most ppl don't play both
[00:06] ESAM: >_> if thats the case we ban most of the stages
[00:07] Krehz: but again i can pick up a character quite easily especially the other half of someone
[00:07] gallax: brinstar!
[00:07] gallax: wahoo
[00:07] Krehz: if they need to tho
[00:07] gallax: my most not liked stages
[00:07] gallax: it hated me
[00:07] Stealth Raptor: an awesome stage if you memorise the acid ^_^
[00:07] gallax: hates*
[00:07] ESAM: Brinstar...Neutral both i think
[00:07] gallax: im gonna say ban all around here
[00:07] Stealth Raptor: neutral for both
[00:07] Stealth Raptor: i agree
[00:07] Krehz: lol brinstar i love it as pika
[00:08] Stealth Raptor: acid stops cg
[00:08] Krehz: ya but opens possibility for thunder wall
[00:08] gallax: ok
[00:08] gallax: well then
[00:08] gallax: i think im a little biased since that stage is crap to me
[00:08] Stealth Raptor: no
[00:08] Stealth Raptor: platforms
[00:08] Stealth Raptor: really hurt
[00:08] Stealth Raptor: for thunder
[00:08] ESAM: but pika can QA everywhere
[00:08] Stealth Raptor: he can o that
[00:08] Stealth Raptor: do
[00:08] gallax: and up through it
[00:08] Krehz: no i mean wait for the lava wall
[00:08] Stealth Raptor: ???
[00:09] ESAM: but zelda has a spike so she can lava combo you
[00:09] Stealth Raptor: brinstar not norfair
[00:09] Krehz: hit them into lava wall and then thunder wall for kill
[00:09] ESAM: brinstar
[00:09] ESAM: not norfair
[00:09] gallax: its hard to get though
[00:09] Krehz: i have done i many times
[00:09] ESAM: it doesn't seem difficult
[00:09] gallax: her spike
[00:09] Krehz: oh lol oops
[00:09] ESAM: but brinstar
[00:09] Krehz: nvm
[00:09] Krehz: brain fart!
[00:09] Krehz: lol
[00:09] thebadnewsbear06: lol good jjob
[00:09] gallax: thats prob cuz you play the best
[00:09] ESAM: but yeah, i still say neutral both ways
[00:09] ESAM: ?
[00:09] Stealth Raptor: yes neutral both
[00:09] ESAM: i don't have the best zelda >.>
[00:09] gallax: ok
[00:10] Krehz: ya brinstar sucks
[00:10] gallax: next
[00:13] gallax: norfair
[00:13] gallax: i dont know much about this stage
[00:13] ESAM: Ban zelda
[00:13] gallax: i rarely play it
[00:13] Stealth Raptor: good pika stage
[00:13] ESAM: N sheik
[00:14] Krehz: lol ya good pika
[00:14] gallax: i know its components
[00:14] Stealth Raptor: fun fun FUN qa
[00:14] Krehz: ya
[00:14] thebadnewsbear06: lol
[00:14] ESAM: oh man QA is so good there
[00:15] ESAM: i would say ban zelda CP shheik
[00:16] ESAM: PS2?
[00:17] gallax: last stage
[00:17] Krehz: ban zelda
[00:19] gallax: ps2
[00:19] Stealth Raptor: sheik
[00:19] Stealth Raptor: cp i say
[00:19] gallax: nuetral for zelda
[00:20] ESAM: neutral zelda CP sheik
[00:20] gallax: is my opinion
[00:20] Stealth Raptor: i would be more comfotable with neutral zelda
[00:20] Stealth Raptor: lol
[00:20] gallax: def cp for sheik
[00:20] Krehz: ya shiek CP ban zelda
[00:20] ESAM: i say neutral zelda
[00:20] Krehz: dude but the floating part?
[00:21] Krehz: zelda b>
[00:21] ESAM: hm...true
[00:21] ESAM: nobody in there right mind would CP there anyway
[00:21] gallax: now for the last part of this discussion
[00:21] Krehz: lol ya
[00:21] gallax: if you play someone who uses both characters
[00:21] ESAM: like my bro
[00:21] gallax: cuz there are those people
[00:21] Krehz: ya
[00:22] gallax: the one stage that sticks out as ban
[00:22] Krehz: sooooo
[00:22] gallax: is YI
[00:22] gallax: no
[00:22] gallax: what am i saying
[00:22] gallax: read it wrong
[00:22] gallax: battlfield
[00:22] ESAM: no way
[00:22] ESAM: not imo at least
[00:22] ESAM: no way at all
[00:22] gallax: yeah way
[00:22] gallax: thats what i have on my list
[00:22] Krehz: ummm i say bttlfld ban

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I can't beleive you actually posted the whole conversation. And at one part it doesn't say the stage, i think around 23:44, its pirate ship

 

[krehz]

lol ya the whole thing.... lol

 

[gallax]

this is good so that i can refer it back on the first page to the conversation that we had.