PseudoTypical
Smash Lord
Relevant:Nah they just forgot shadow mooses they need to get rid of that for a better one then they're good.
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Relevant:Nah they just forgot shadow mooses they need to get rid of that for a better one then they're good.
Let me rephrase that.
Saying "we" implies that absolutely every P:M player agrees with your exact definition of what's "professional" and what isn't
I used to use the lava in that stage for combos lol.Yeah! That stage was amazing.
I also really miss Samus's N64 stage. The acid/lava mechanic has been used in several other levels, but for whatever reason, none of them are nearly as fun as that original one.
Fair enough, but what about Halberd? Isn't it still in P:M, minus the claw? Maybe people ban if from tourney play (I honestly don't know), but even in vBrawl, the hazards were incredibly manageable, and they didn't really take away from the player vs. player action. It was a nice counterpick, and personally, my favorite counterpick stage.In the case of Warioware, the rewards of the minigames weren't the only problem. It was the minigames themselves. A general theme of banned stages is that they change the match from player v player into player v player v stage, and that's something that the community as a whole tries to avoid.
With the minigames, you're forced to interact (essentially, fight) with the stage more than you are with the player. That sort of gameplay is not really advocated.
This line of thought is also applied to some other hazard based stages as well which can help you gain some potential insight into why some stages are normalized.
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I've heard a lot of complaints about LC's background being really off-putting for players. I'm interested in finding a way to either make it static or way less frantic.
And I don't personally hate the tilt, I hate how god damn thick the ledges are. It's Brawl FD all over again with those stupid things.
Hell even Team Fortress 2 has Warioware mode, and what's more competitively geared than that?
*ahem* Starcraft "two"Starcraft
What about Halberd? Yes, it's still in P:M. Page 1 actually. The stage is super predictable as are the hazards. I'm not sure what you're getting at here.Fair enough, but what about Halberd? Isn't it still in P:M, minus the claw? Maybe people ban if from tourney play (I honestly don't know), but even in vBrawl, the hazards were incredibly manageable, and they didn't really take away from the player vs. player action. It was a nice counterpick, and personally, my favorite counterpick stage.
Well if we had the ability to, maybe we would. I'm not sure if we're capable, but at this point I think this stage is more preferred by the competitive crowd as is. I don't know, anything is subject to change Haha.As for Warioware, I see what you mean about having to fight the stage. While Halberd is extremely predictable, Wario Ware is a bit crazy. But let's assume that the hackers could assume full creative control of the stage and did the following things:
- Reduce the frequency of minigames (down to one game a minute or so)
- Nerf the games so that the damage/knockback is weaker. If there's a game that's completely broken, throw it out.
- Games with variety in what happens are made predictable (such as the car that hits players only follows one path, rather than trying to screw with people)
- Losers of minigames are not penalized. Winners gain a small health gift (which given how fast people rack up damage, that's pretty meager, and not as broken as a mega mushroom or invincibility.)
You could create a situation in which the games are more predictable and the consequences are minimal. The games can be played, but they can also be ignored. It could potentially be a counterpick stage in that regard.
Don't quote me, but I think we couldnt get full control over the hazards of Norfair, so we opted to remove it.Of course, I'm admittedly biased, given that Warioware is my favorite banned stage ever along with Norfair. But as for Norfair, why not leave a lava hazard in like in Brinstar, which is relatively loved as a counterpick? I would take out the lava wave and the spit fire and keep the rising lava (which is a lot like Brinstar) and maybe even the lava wall, though that could be an issue.
Well I disagree about various stages being BF-esque clones because despite these stages losing the frantic attributes that were casual friendly and tournament not, they all hold nuances in platform layout and stage size that create distinct feels that matter in the long run. But that's my opinion.I just feel that these stages had a lot of personality that was stripped from them, just to create battlefield-esque clones. I mean, if old Norfair and Warioware are eventually readded on their own in addition to these new stages, that's awesome, but I feel like these stages could have been modded into counterpicks.
I feel the same way about Pokemon Stadium 2. I feel that some of the hazards (like the conyer belts) could have been toned. I mean, nothing wrong with the stage as it is now, but...
I know there was an answer for this, but it's escaping me for some reason. lol.Also, what about Lylat Cruise losing its tilt? Is there a legit reason for this other than petty dislike of an added feature? Because honestly, I never saw it as being some gamebreaking feature (unless I'm missing something, which is possible, given my absence in general) but it seems like another example of taking a stage and stripping it of its uniqueness. Except this time, the stage was pretty balanced to begin with, especially compared to a lot of counterpick stages in vBrawl.
Oh, I get that it's pretty easy to switch it back. That's not really the point. If non-tilting is a tourney standard, I want to know why, especially if I ever decided I wanted to get involved again. As far as mechanics go, the tilting was hardly game breaking. It gave the stage something unique that could be turned into an advantage (for me, the tilt was a good thing to use against certain projectile characters, since it could throw off their game.) It was a counterpick for me, but it wasn't crazy and unpredictable. I just don't see why for a game like this, it was considered so bad that it had to get removed, while Halberd still sports hazards (which for the record, I don't think were bad either.)If you want Lylat Cruise to tilt again, all you have to do is delete the Lylat Cruise files from your SD card. I personally hated the tilt though, and I'll be leaving it as is. My only qualm with it currently is that I wish the platforms were a little higher and the background either a little darker or not there at all; preferably something like flying through meteor belt in Starfox 64.
I get that there are nuances. There are reasons as to why I would choose Smashville over FD and Battlefield over Fountain of Dreams. That's why I added "esque" to the end of the word. But I wouldn't say that adding a "frantic" attribute necessarily makes something not tournament friendly. Granted, vanilla Norfair is a bit too frantic, but then you have Halberd, which was a good counterpick stage, given how tame and predictable it is. Even with nerfed hazards on PS2, I wouldn't suggest it to be a Neutral stage (we have quite a few of those already.) That's why for the sake of PS2, I feel like it could have been nerfed to be a counterpick that was far less annoying than it was in vBrawl. Then, it keeps elements that made it what it was, and can be useful as a counter pick, but it won't be completely stupid with the frantic things being too much (this assuming that it could be programmed.)Well I disagree about various stages being BF-esque clones because despite these stages losing the frantic attributes that were casual friendly and tournament not, they all hold nuances in platform layout and stage size that create distinct feels that matter in the long run. But that's my opinion
Oh, I get that it's pretty easy to switch it back. That's not really the point. If non-tilting is a tourney standard, I want to know why, especially if I ever decided I wanted to get involved again. As far as mechanics go, the tilting was hardly game breaking. It gave the stage something unique that could be turned into an advantage (for me, the tilt was a good thing to use against certain projectile characters, since it could throw off their game.) It was a counterpick for me, but it wasn't crazy and unpredictable. I just don't see why for a game like this, it was considered so bad that it had to get removed, while Halberd still sports hazards (which for the record, I don't think were bad either.)
What I want to know is why it was removed. What made it so disliked and so bad that it was worth removing to make another generic platform stage, while at the same time, taking away a unique aspect that wasn't all that game breaking and could be used strategically?
EDIT:
I get that there are nuances. There are reasons as to why I would choose Smashville over FD and Battlefield over Fountain of Dreams. That's why I added "esque" to the end of the word. But I wouldn't say that adding a "frantic" attribute necessarily makes something not tournament friendly. Granted, vanilla Norfair is a bit too frantic, but then you have Halberd, which was a good counterpick stage, given how tame and predictable it is. Even with nerfed hazards on PS2, I wouldn't suggest it to be a Neutral stage (we have quite a few of those already.) That's why for the sake of PS2, I feel like it could have been nerfed to be a counterpick that was far less annoying than it was in vBrawl. Then, it keeps elements that made it what it was, and can be useful as a counter pick, but it won't be completely stupid with the frantic things being too much (this assuming that it could be programmed.)
*ahem* Starcraft "two"
Never found it to be that detrimental. I find it easy to adjust with the stage (It's not that extreme. It moves predictably enough.)Because the stage tilting up while you're trying to recover and it causes you to miss is ****ing stupid.
I can't tell you enough how many times I've seen things that were definitely the stage's fault.Never found it to be that detrimental. I find it easy to adjust with the stage (It's not that extreme. It moves predictably enough.)
However, getting stuck under the stage is a thing, but I would usually attribute that to my own mistakes or another player knocking me there.
Lylat's goddamned awful. The background is distracting as sin, and the stage tilt is as annoying as it can possibly be when I'm trying to tether with Link, or extreme speed onto the stage as Lucario. Ugh. Lylat remains one of my least favorite stages of the ones present in P:M.I've heard a lot of complaints about LC's background being really off-putting for players. I'm interested in finding a way to either make it static or way less frantic.
And I don't personally hate the tilt, I hate how god damn thick the ledges are. It's Brawl FD all over again with those stupid things.
But Lylat's fault? The stage is entirely predictable. It's not like vanilla Warioware where you get hit with random games with random frequency that will sometimes try to screw with you. Hell, even Halberd, while incredibly manageable, plays slightly differently each time with its hazards (I mean, there's a laser cannon that chases you. It's easy to avoid, but it's still actively trying to get you.
Vanilla Lylat follows a set path every time and the tilt follows a predictable pattern. It is not the stages fault if the player is unable to recover for not knowing the stage well enough. If you get knocked under the stage by your opponent or you perform an action incorrectly, getting yourself screwed under the stage, that's not the stage's fault.
Yup. Lylat's a ****ing prick. Just make it not tilt, and give it the old N64 Sector Z background or something.It doesn't have anything to do with knowing the stage. It's like those moments when you're trying to recover on a normal stage where you get edgegaurded by the opponent as he wavedashes backwards and utilizes the invincibility frames at just the right time so you can't grab the ledge or hurt him. You watch your character fall even though you knew for a fact that if the opponent wasn't there you'd have made it. Only in Lylat's case, it's not the opponent, it's the stage doing it for you.
It's about Lylat Cruise, the stage, ******* all of us.Wait, you lost me there. Is this about edge guarding, wave dashes, the stage, or all of the above? If there is an issue involving those mechanics and the stage, I can understand modifications. But if not, I can say from personal experience that after playing the stage long enough in vBrawl and other brawl hacks, I never had a problem with recovery that didn't involve my own error or the influence of my opponent. Maybe I've been lucky so far. I don't know.
No, Lylat's just an asshole, through-and-through. The ever-so-slightly tilting thing it has going for it drives me insane.I think the hate in P:M for the stage probably comes more from how much weaker recovery is in general compared to Brawl. Sweetspotting requires precision and with some characters, a tilt is all it takes to turn a safe sweetspot into a total disaster.
Play ITG like a real manI feel like I'm the only one who isnt distracted by Lylat's background lol.
But then again, I play stepmania/ddr with movies enabled, so i guess I learned to block out distracting backgrounds lmao