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Stadium 1 is more universally legal in Brawl, but is extremely hotly debated in P:M. I think Stadium 2 should be legal though; it is the stage home to this:ikr
Yes and no. Whichever one is more legal tournament-wise.
and
Yes.
Wow, the lols were real. Nice vid!
Reset Bomb Forest is a stage I've seen on a recent 3Ds gameplay video. Unfortunately the second transformation last just as long as the first, about a minute. The second transformation has that cave that can be abused such as with a Pokemon Stadium transformation on Melee, but this one last a whole minute so I can't see this being viable for comp.
I'm glad I wrote something good!Reset Bomb Forest is a stage I've seen on a recent 3Ds gameplay video. Unfortunately the second transformation last just as long as the first, about a minute. The second transformation has that cave that can be abused such as with a Pokemon Stadium transformation on Melee, but this one last a whole minute so I can't see this being viable for comp.
It's hard to be an Animal Crossing fan and not be biased in favor of Tortimer Island. The real issues are:
- The right side of the stage has no ledge you can grab.
- The shark could be insta-kill, but if you can't swim in the water, how will he work? Will simply being near him result in a KO?
- I'm sure the coconuts could be an issue as they provide projectiles to characters with no projectiles which could alter the outcome of the match if they use them well.
In terms of fruit, they might heal so little that it's no real advantage so I couldn't care less. I also don't mind random layout changes, I think it keeps the stage from growing stale. Will Tortimer Island be a great stage? Oh yeah! Will it be banned by the majority? I'm afraid so.
Everything else, I agree with. Some stages will just need some testing, good read.
Sorry, I think I worded that wrong. But Reset Bomb Fortress has it's neutral stage, then it transforms into the wacky stage, then it returns to neutral.
The dock even changed sides... The fact that it's always random really will be the true problem I'm feeling. Some of the transformations I saw were absolutely fine, while others are just a giant pain. Hrm...
No complaints here, all of those look like nice legal stages.
I figure this one will be legal too, it's honestly has a nice feel and the stops are good with the hazards easily avoidable. The cars do not follow a set pattern like they did on PTAD, but I figure they have a HUGE warning and are easily avoided on all of the stops.
Well Sakurai has already said he wont be having a hazards on/off switch so no go there. The side of the stage that has the dock is grabable (the dock itself has the ledge). The shark does't eat people, it just hits them up (a Randall that does damage?) I'm unsure if it's on a pattern or timer either but it's unlikely as some matches I never saw it at all.
I agree here but...
The ghosts don't look TOO bad. I think the bigger concern might be if circle camping is possible (it has the shape for it). If the platforms aren't solid it may stand a chance. Plus the ghosts might even help make circle camping difficult to do (similar to the hazards on Summit) so I figure this one has a better chance.
That a dangerous way to consider anything. Even the worst looking stages should see testing. Nothing should be done just because its how we did it before. This stage could have a good shot again depending on a few factors. Most people see the "why it was banned in Brawl" on smash wiki and assume that it was the real reason. It only got banned in Brawl because a ton of players thought it was too good a stage for Falco (it wasn't) and people made up reasons later. The water as a "movement option" is very risky with the klap trap (which is on a "semi-timer" of sorts, not perfect but can be followed). PLUS the klap trap can actually be SDIed out of and survived by every character in Brawl.
I don't want this legal either, but I don't like your reasoning either. The stage has a TON of differences from Big Blue and would be banned for reasons much different then Big Blue. Big Blue had issues where you could circle camp, plus falling on the ground without perfect teching usually meant death. This stage has issues in how it transitions leaving very little space to be fought on. If you fall off the front of the train you don't actually die, you just get bounced around a bit and you can recover. Very different things. There's no need to hold bias a previous stage has to looking at new ones.
I feel like you are in the minority here. I've seen no one before you say this stage should be banned. It honestly looks and feels like Pokemon Stadium in a lot of ways and unless something crazy broken is found there I see no reason to ban it. The transformations may not be conventional, but nothing there is broken by any means.
This one does have issues, mostly in that second transformation. Though some of the platforms in that transformations (the particularly bad ones) can actually be broken very easily. This one is probably on the fringe but I wouldn't dismiss it without testing to be sure how it works. It may even have more transitions for all we know, we only get to see 2 minutes of the stage as of now.
Every Smash game has had gimmicky stages. I'm sure most of them will be legal. We'll see about that.
Not only this, but the layout you see here isn't actually permanent. I played this stage at Smash Fest, and all those blocks randomly drop down from the sky. If you are under them when they fall, they deal damage and knockback to you, which would disrupt competitive play. They go away after a while, but then new objects come along to replace them. I recall seeing a high heeled shoe as one of the possible objects.
Living Room
Speculated Legality Status: Banned
Reasoning: Firstly, it's a walk off, and a rather simple one at that. Secondly, some of those blocks near the center look like they're gonna give campers too much of an edge, and potential wall infinites seem pretty easy to pull off here. Also note how much easier it is to land a vertical finisher here than a horizontal one. Definitely will be banned.
So, you're gonna ban Rainbow Road, then? Its layout is like Port Town. Like you said, back throw K.O's are still a thing, and as seen in that screenshot of Rainbow Road, a character with a strong back throw/forward throw could easily K.O the other player.
I agree, and while I wouldn't mind seeing some gimmicks declared "legal", based on past games' "legal" stagelists (counterpick or no), what we've seen so far seems to indicate that anyone bad on FD is going to lack options.
Cool to see a long time TO posting here, thanks for taking the time man.
Walkoff camping seems more of an issue for certain character matchups than a rule. It carries a fair bit of risk for the camper, but that can often be reduced for certain characters who are hard to approach to begin with.
It really is true. It's not as strong as people say it is, but it can work as well. It's probably just SLIGHTLY better then camping near the ledge on a normal stage with those hard to approach characters.
I can't deny that, per risk, the reward for walkoff-camping is significantly greater (since you get more or less an instant kill at any percent), but I don't see it as significantly different from a low-damage gimp. I guess the issue is that in some levels of play, it does encourage camping and stalling. Not a problem playing in my group of friends, fighting is more fun than winning.
I could agree with this. I feel like if we had a stage with the right mechanics it could work. Onett came REALLY close with the cars, it really was just the rest of the stage that caused issues. I'll test every stage for sure (just to be safe) but I could see if it didn't have something special walkoffs getting the boot.
Eldin and Castle Siege Part 2 also struck me as pretty reasonable in Vbrawl, as Eldin's random hazard wasn't a serious threat, and Siege didn't have any randomness. Karts aside, Mario Circuit wasn't that bad either. It's a shame there's no gimmick toggle in Smashthrough, cuz I think Gerudo would be pretty easily a fair stage (under these walkoff-acceptable ideas) if the Twins didn't shoot fire and ice everywhere.
I watched this video of the stage so you know where I'm coming from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbFJzUgD6_Q
I basically answered this for the most part in the first part of this post, but yeah, if it was proven not to be strong or effective I'd be more open to walk-offs. People likely wouldn't use it as much if it wasn't powerful. However, the thing you have to understand is even with no chainthrows, you can kill someone at 0% if you grab them near a walk-off blast zone and chuck them into it. That's just throwing mechanics in all smash games. Unless throws are absolute crap that send you nowhere in smash 4, camping a walkoff blast zone waiting to throw someone into it is going to be extremely powerful. What's the safest thing to do if someone is trying that stunt? Camp them until they come closer into the stage, and thats where the problem starts. Even if both of them are engaging near the walk off, it tends to cause the match to de-generate into a gimmicky crap shoot. Brawl matches on Castle Siege are good examples of this. Watch how much different the players play when they are on the 2nd phase of the map (the walk-off portion) when compared to stage one and three, and it will be easier to see what I mean.
I'll assume he meant more along the lines of a List Striking System where such a thing as neutrals don't exist and stages are just legal or banned.
It's true that people could still throw at zero percent, but being able to land that throw isn't easy either. Most kinds of capming are stopped from the front much more often then the back anyways so the idea that a player can only pressure from one side shouldn't be an issue. It's honestly high risk high reward and many things in smash are that way. Though I could agree that such things could clog lower levels of player where people don't know how to counter it and it could be boring to watch. (I've seen many Castle Siege matches and know exactly what you mean).
Well, the warnings make it so it's obvious that the players need to go to the platforms so the karts don't hit them. I'm not sure if Port Town's flat platform let the characters grab the ledges. Rainbow Road seems to do that. The walk off lasts for a few seconds, yes, but there's still a chance the player will K.O the opponent before the flat platform appears. It's most likely that Rainbow Road's status could be a counterpick (that is, if the same stage system is on Smash 3DS). Boxing Ring is obviously banned. It's obvious. Walk-offs, hazardous platform at the top of the stage, the lighting dims out after it falls down. There's a lot of reasons why this stage could be banned.
There was no need to bump a dead thread (its been 2 months) just to request it to be locked.
