ssb4 physics

[himemiya]

what do you think it'll be like? Somthing melee or brawl or like street fighter or like ps allstar?

 

[Curmudgeon]

I don't think it will be as floaty as Brawl, but I doubt it will be as fast as Melee. I guess it will be something in between, something like smash 64.

 

[Vkrm]

I want it faster than melee.

 

[Dark Phazon]

i think it will either be the same speed as brawl or a bit faster. And less floaty.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Like Super Smash Bros. 64 sounds good!

 

[Kink-Link5]

I don't think it will be as floaty as Brawl, but I doubt it will be as fast as Melee. I guess it will be something in between, something like smash 64.

Melee isn't very fast falling compared to

Well basically any game in existence, platformer or otherwise.

Going to agree with the notion of faster falling than Melee here. Stronger gravity means quicker SH and FH FFs and more control in the hands of the player.

It's not going to happen based on everything about Sakurai's design mentality (Lol Fox is supposed to be balanced because he's hard to use), but hey whatever.

 

[Ove]

Melee isn't very fast falling compared to

Well basically any game in existence, platformer or otherwise.

I guess you haven't played so many games then. Compare a fast falling Fox with, let's say, Sackboy in LBP, the boy in Limbo, Mario in th 3D games, characters in PSABR, Tekken characters, Kirby in his platform games, Samus in all of the Metroid games etc. etc....

I might be wrong. Show us some frame data, because I don't believe Melee isn't fast falling compared to "basically any game in existence."

 

[Kink-Link5]

Using FF makes it faster than most games, but a normal fall is quite floaty, even with Fox. Of course Fox SHFFL'ing is faster than doing any jumping attack in regular games, it's a combination of several techniques that specifically shorten air time and speed up movement in an optional manner in the player's control.

Frame data isn't a really useful way to compare anything since it also ignores jump height and rising speed, Smash uses a gravity effect rather than a constant fall speed as in most games, and Smash has a completely optional Fast Fall at any point at any point while your character is descending. Where do you propose Frame data be collected in any case? It's one thing to be skeptical about information, but to demand something that can't be readily produced just sounds like an excuse to say "Well you don't have absolute proof so you're wrong."

I understand that you mean "Fast Falling Fox falls wayyy faster than Sackboy," but it's a completely individual example that uses a technique specifically made to speed up falling speed with one character that is the closest to having typical falling speed and one that is fairly slow by platformer standards. It's what I mean when I say giving more options- things that are completely optional- for movement is a good thing. By having falling speed be more akin to typical games by default, every character has better access to quicker SHFFL's . The time to Fast Fall is directly related to the frame at which characters start moving down from their jump, which happens sooner with higher Gravity. The only other way to achieve this using slower Gravity is to have extremely small short hops (I don't think there has been a character with a notably small SH actually. Maybe Wolf?).

The inclusion of a constant Gravity and Terminal Velocity that is slowly reached, brevity of Short Hops, and the option to Fast Fall are all things that would contribute to an appearance of faster falling than other games, but it's really not the case given a Full Hop and normal falling, even with characters like Fox or Falco.

 

[Ove]

It's one thing to be skeptical about information, but to demand something that can't be readily produced just sounds like an excuse to say "Well you don't have absolute proof so you're wrong."

Too bad it did come out that way, but I really didn't mean "PROOF!" I was just sceptical of you saying Melee isn't fast falling compared to "any" game. Frame data was a weird thing to bring out, I admit that, but there are too many games out there which are floatier than Melee.

I don't know why you don't include fast falling in your calculations since that's a part of the physics in the game, but oh well...

Other than that, i agree with you when it comes to this matter.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Fast Falling is an optional input for the player. If they find it too fast to platform with, the slower fall is more suitable, and happens by default in the game. That's what I mean when not including it- it's something entirely within the player's control. It's like accusing Peach for being too floaty for you if all you do is literally float with her and never do otherwise in the air.

 

[Dark Phazon]

This is how a full blown pokemon game would look on WiiU
(scroll down to see more pics)

http://wiiudaily.com/2013/01/heres-what-a-pokemon-game-on-wii-u-could-look-like/

 

[Ove]

Fast Falling is an optional input for the player. If they find it too fast to platform with, the slower fall is more suitable, and happens by default in the game. That's what I mean when not including it- it's something entirely within the player's control. It's like accusing Peach for being too floaty for you if all you do is literally float with her and never do otherwise in the air.

That's an excellent way of showing exactly how floaty Melee can be to its extent, albeit Peach's floatiness is a part of her unique moveset whereas fast falling comprise the whole cast.

You stated that Melee isn't fast falling compared to other games, I showcased to you the most fast falling factor in the competetive game (I suppose Metal Fox would fall faster).

Obviously, when you compare the rate of fast falling with other games, you have to take the most fast falling factor into consideration. It's like I would say that the Kirby games are extremely floaty, since I can inhale air with Kirby and thus fall with a heavily decreased velocity. However, that's not the case, Kirby has the potential to fall faster. So has Peach, in your example, by simply fast fall.

But I agree with you that one way to look at it is by comparing the default conditions.

 

[Toebex]

As long as theres no bloody tripping im good.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Let's just make it like Melee. There wasn't anything wrong with Melee

 

[Kink-Link5]

Let's just make it like Melee. There wasn't anything wrong with Melee

My sarcasm detector is going wild.

Lack of a period and brevity of the post implies sarcasm,

yet the accuracy of the statement is close enough to the actual truth.



Melee has some physics and design issues, but they're very minimal. Balance among the cast is the largest issue in the game, and it's an issue in a looot of games. Most games don't even have the luxury of having a top 6 that go even with one another.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Nah, really. I played Melee for years and years. I only played Brawl for a few months and have rarely touched it since.

Maybe it's the gameplay, maybe it's just circumstances

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Mix both physics and call it even. That ought to shut both fans up for a while.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Mix both physics and call it even. That ought to shut both fans up for a while.

The game is floaty and falls fast? Makes sense.

 

[Dark Phazon]

We gotta just over analyse 1000x the 2seconds or so of gameplay that will be shown in the new trailer lol to get a idea how much its the same or different...

 

[Vkrm]

None of brawls changes did anything good for casual or competitive play. Stick with melee.

 

[Dark Phazon]

None of brawls changes did anything good for casual or competitive play. Stick with melee.

Its up to Sakurai as long as he is happy thats all that matters.

 

[Vkrm]

If he expects me to buy smash 4, changes need to be made. Why does his opinion of the game matter anyway?

 

[Frostwraith]

^ Isn't it obvious? He's the creator of the game, thus he decides what to do whatever he wants.

You won't buy it because the game is not as you like? Your loss, not his.

900 posts! o.o

 

[Vkrm]

He should do what's good for the game and not what he wants. For most devs they are one in the same. Sakurai, not so much. Look no further than brawl.

 

[Frostwraith]

Oh, it's you again... （；¬＿¬)
I forgot for a while you are just another deluded and intolerant fanboy. I'm wasting my time here.

 

[Curmudgeon]

He should do what's good for the game and not what he wants. For most devs they are one in the same. Sakurai, not so much. Look no further than brawl.

Well, he won't make a game he doesn't enjoy

 

[Vkrm]

But frostwraith, your time is worthless....



@Curmudgeon he does what nintendo tells him to like most "good" directors. He doesn't need to like it. Pm is a great game, and it has nothing to do with him.

 

[Frostwraith]

But frostwraith, your time is worthless....
[...]

Well, speak for yourself. (;¬_¬)

Who's the only person here bashing everyone who has a different opinion? But, who am I arguing with?

You are the one making a big deal out of a game. If you don't enjoy it, fine by me. But coming here to bash at other people just because you don't agree with them is just sad.

Oh well, obvious troll is obvious, and here I am feeding him...（；¬＿¬)

I have better things to worry about in my life than arguing over trivial matters like this.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Calm down guys let Sakurai do his thing who gives a crap how the game turns out he and everyone else is making a bigger deal then it already is... its just another Smash game they will only be so little better then the last installment unless the direction and of the series changes which it hasent and wnever will..

theres a good chance it will turn out better then brawl thats the main obvious goal if it succeeds then im happy.

I dont expect miracles from nintendo no more so you shouldnt either. Dont buy the hype Sakurai is giving by saying ''ima make you wait for it! it will be worth it...)

**** Sakurai let him do his own **** if the game sucks i will proberly just wait for Metroid Prime 4 buy it finish then sell WiiU for a 720.

Only reason its ultra super overhyped because where all in a phaze right now that i like to call ''dead town'' were theres no new games and nothing to play...boring as ****! Except its worse now then it normally is...

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Smash isn't going to suck, smash is awesome. The competitive aspect? Who knows, I think it's gonna be great personally. I love Melee and competitive smash as much as the next guy but what's up with this delusional thinking that the entire game will be bad on a grand scale if it isn't competitively sound? There is so much extra content and Nintendo history to look forward too. If it's not tournament viable (Which it will considering that they managed to make Brawl work) then don't play it competitively. I know everyone wants a game that can live up to everyone's expectations, but i'm just stoked that we get to get another smash bros game in HD with a great and knowledgeable staff of designers. I think we can all at least be happy with that considering how Sakurai was so insistent on making Brawl his last smash which would have left a bad conclusion for the series to be honest.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Smash isn't going to suck, smash is awesome. The competitive aspect? Who knows, I think it's gonna be great personally. I love Melee and competitive smash as much as the next guy but what's up with this delusional thinking that the entire game will be bad on a grand scale if it isn't competitively sound? There is so much extra content and Nintendo history to look forward too. If it's not tournament viable (Which it will considering that they managed to make Brawl work) then don't play it competitively. I know everyone wants a game that can live up to everyone's expectations, but i'm just stoked that we get to get another smash bros game in HD with a great and knowledgeable staff of designers. I think we can all at least be happy with that considering how Sakurai was so insistent on making Brawl his last smash which would have left a bad conclusion for the series to be honest.

Hmmm...true..good point..plus theres gonna be loads of good games on the WiiU to play if Sm4sh aint good.

 

[Vkrm]

Smash is a fighting game. That's all there is to it. If it's immposible to enjoy the actual fighting then it's a **** game. I don't doubt that casuals can enjoy the game, but that doesn't mean it's good, they are the least qualified to judge the game IMO. They don't really see the game for what it is.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Smash is a fighting game. That's all there is to it. If it's immposible to enjoy the actual fighting then it's a **** game. I don't doubt that casuals can enjoy the game, but that doesn't mean it's good, they are the least qualified to judge the game IMO. They don't really see the game for what it is.

Impling Super Smash Bros. 4 should not be newbies friendly.
Yes, there is the handicap option to compensate the difference between experts and novices, but I dubt Nintendo will kill the fresh players.

 

[Vkrm]

Melee wasnt too hard was it? If was the perfect mix of easy play, hard to master. Even casuals dislike the changes when it's brought to their attention.

 

[Big-Cat]

On the topic of newb friendly, why not actually put more effort in making a really good and fun tutorial?

On the topic of physics, I'm questioning if harsher gravity is not a bad idea. It would make it where jumps and stuff require more commitment to them. Still, I would like to see where killing the opponent is quicker.

 

[FlareHabanero]

For a tutorial, I'd imagine little iterative things that are designed to teach the player on every aspect from simple attacks to more advanced techniques. Preferable every character should have an individual tutorial set up due to every character fundamentally working differently.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

On the topic of newb friendly, why not actually put more effort in making a really good and fun tutorial?.

Good idea! If it was me I would put Barbara The Bat as teacher. Because that's what she was doing in her games.

 

[Kink-Link5]

If he expects me to buy smash 4, changes need to be made. Why does his opinion of the game matter anyway?

In Sakurai's opinion, Melee is the most fleshed out and well-polished game in the series.

 

[El Duderino]

The way I see it, Smash has two floaty entries in the series, and of those two, only one that managed it well. While not my ideal preference, 64's physics still feel remarkably solid and satisfying after all these years.

It is time for heavier entry in the series though. That and after Brawl, I have less faith that they can go the floaty route again and do it well.

 

[Qlaw]

Why the hell does every aspect of this new game have to have "melee. that's all".

Is melee a good game? Yes.(hell, maybe even great)

Is melee the best game in the series? Who's to say? Even if 48% of people voted for melee over both brawl and 64 it doesn't mean it's the best, for there are a huge portion of people who think otherwise.

I love Melee. But I, in no way, want smash 4 to be Melee 2.0(or any other 2.0). I want this game to be it's own, fleshed out piece of art. I'd love it to be hugely balanced, where every character is COMPLETELY viable(it would be interesting if they had characters counter each other, but that'd make people have to pick up secondaries, which is frowned upon it seems). I'm waiting to buy this game and feel like it's brand new.

All smash games are at least a good game. the next one will be too. Will it have it's flaws? Sure.

Something tells me that even if it were melee/brawl 2.0 there'd still be people saying that the first version was better etc.