Squirtle... why do people think this is a bad matchup?

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I mean... people say he's fast and hard to Lighting kick.

that's not really true.

Squirtle is actually quite slow... he's only fast:
-in the air
-when shellshifting


niether is particularly threatening.
-Zelda's Usmash destoys squirtles aerial approaches.
-Shell shifting won't get him inside of zelda, he can't get through her Fsmash or Dtilt without an Fsmash of his own (the flinchproof frames will do it)


Now as for the hard to lightning kick. that's true. he's a small target. But, to balance that out, if he DOES get Lightning kicked, he'll get reamed. but it's not like zelda doesn't have enough options for killing him already since she posesses so many kill moves.

Also, she can just camp him until he fatigues sinch he can't really counter camp her at all.

 

[popsofctown]

I don't think the difficulty in lightning kicking him is important, but he does seem to have a few advantages.

You forgot to point out one big thing for your side: Every time you kill Squirtle, you get to smack around the other pokemon, which are easier to fight.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

that's more an advatage over PT in general than it is an advantage on squirtle.

But seriously, with his reliance on his aerial game and his lack of range, priority, weight, power or counter camping strategies (I suppose hecould squirt you off the edge while you din's fired, but that would take some really stupid setup by yourself), he's NOT advantaged in this matchup

 

[Oh Snap]

I never fought a Squirtle before with my Zelda, but anyone who tries to approach with aerials is dead because Usmash is too godly (common sense!).

 

[Brinzy]

I'm no expert on either character, but Squirtle, like you said, moves fast through the air. Yes, if you lightning kick him, he'll probably die if he has any damage on him already... but ALL of his aerials are effective whenever they land. Fair and bair kill very fast, dair comes out so fluid that he can completely evade the threat of Zelda's uair and still hit her with it, and his other aerials can match up to Zelda's. Also, I'd take my chances in evading Zelda's uair or DIing her Usmash with Squirtle before I'd fall towards him with Zelda. Nobody probably does either, but Zelda can't do crap to Squirtle even if she gets past his attacks.

Also, like it has been mentioned, Squirtle does a lot of stuff to prevent himself from flinching. That's the last thing Zelda wants to deal with. She already has some of the most ******** smashes when it comes to DIing out of them (definitely improved from Melee, but it's still DI-able); this not only allows Squirtle to pass through attacks like those (and many more), but he also gets a hit in on Zelda, and his moves do have some knockback. Zelda, on the other hand, is facing this tiny target, trying to catch him in these attacks. She can get Squirtle in these, yes, but it's not as easy as the larger characters. Then there's the fact that while Zelda's tilts have excellent killing potential and setups, Squirtle's has setups AND speed. Have you ever been comboed by Squirtle's uptilt? That thing comes out so fast that at low %s, you can hit someone twice with it and still set them up for aerial punishment. His tilts do things that a lot of his other moves aren't designed to do; Zelda's tilts do things her smashes can do. You might as well call those smash attacks, what with how they come out and how easily punished she could be if she screwed up.

As far as recovery goes, I'll give it to Zelda, but I will say that Water Gun can mess with her recovery in the hands of a good Squirtle. Squirtle might have it a bit harder, however.

The rest... Nayru's Love is an excellent skill to use on Squirtle, and Zelda's Dsmash is pretty good. However, Squirtle still has the speed advantage. He might be faster in the air than he is on the ground, but Zelda can't keep up with him anyway.



... not that I know why she's disadvantaged against him, but that's just my guess.

 

[Ztarfish]

Squirtle, being the smallest character in the game, will DI out of your Usmash faster than a cheetah on speed. I even DI on accident when Ness or Lucas and they're like twice the size. Also he has more than one way to get you into the air, where you're incredibly vulnerable in comparison.

Not that I've ever really fought a Squirtle, I'm just replying to your claim that Usmash will be your savior.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Squirtle, being the smallest character in the game, will DI out of your Usmash faster than a cheetah on speed. I even DI on accident when Ness or Lucas and they're like twice the size. Also he has more than one way to get you into the air, where you're incredibly vulnerable in comparison.

Not that I've ever really fought a Squirtle, I'm just replying to your claim that Usmash will be your savior.

still, it grounds squirtle if he attempts to air-approach

 

[Brinzy]

Not really. Side B into Zelda if you must. It's predictable, but if Zelda is relying on Usmash, she'll get punished. Even better, just air-dodge; Squirtle's already incredibly small, so he can land in hitting distance from Zelda and entirely evade the Usmash. The lag on it leaves Zelda open to a smash attack from Squirtle.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

side B from squirtle has way too much lag on it to be relied upon like that. she's just smash him with something else.

Airdodging is fine as long as she doesn't predict it. But, even so, it's not enough to make up for the fact that squirtle's not going to do very much damage with any attack and that Zelda will.

To win this matchup, squirtle would have to play VERY patiently, but, unfortunately, he can only be out for 2:00 or else he starts to suffer major problems from fatigue.

 

[Brinzy]

Squirtle isn't really weak. His moves do a fair bit of damage and they have good knockback. His attacks kill pretty early on, especially on someone like Zelda. In 2:00, Squirtle can have Zelda down a stock, and if she's not down from Squirtle, Ivysaur is next and he has excellent KO potential, so as long as Squirtle damages Zelda, things are going his way... and believe me, he'll damage Zelda and possibly get a KO.

Besides, in 2:00, Squirtle loses some power, but the knockback does not change, from what I understand. Not really a huge loss...

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Still... I don't think Zelda completely shuts down squirtle... but there's no way this is a "bad" matchup for her.

Squirtle's moves ARE fairly weak... they really are and if zelda is smart enough not to get baited he'll REALLY have a lot of trouble geting in close enough to engage her without taking lots of damge himself... damage he can't afford, along the way.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

well honestly as a squirtle player myself, smart squirtle players don't just jump into you, it's all mindgames....and honestly it's alot smarter to set Zelda in the air and just attack her from below. Only an idiot would allow himself to be disposed to a lightening kick without a plan around it.

So the same works with Ivy. Charizard is the only character Zelda can really knock into one of those murderous kicks of death.

 

[xNinjaOfChaosx]

I think this topic is giving Squirtle too little credit as we don't really know the ins and outs of Squirtle's play style and yet we know practically everything about Zelda. For all we know, there exist some Squirtle strategies that ensure getting an opponent into the air, and in this match up, the air is clearly Squirtle's territory.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

well honestly as a squirtle player myself, smart squirtle players don't just jump into you, it's all mindgames....and honestly it's alot smarter to set Zelda in the air and just attack her from below. Only an idiot would allow himself to be disposed to a lightening kick without a plan around it.

So the same works with Ivy. Charizard is the only character Zelda can really knock into one of those murderous kicks of death.

this completely asumes that you will always get zelda airborne when you want... the fact is, Zelda's ground game kills squirtle's.

 

[BrawlBro]

um squirtle is NOT slow....

at all

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

um squirtle is NOT slow....

at all

Attack speed and air speed are high...

running speed is actually one of the lowest in the game and is slower than either of the other pokes