• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Squirtle in the Neutral Position: A Primer

TheReflexWonder

Wonderful!
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
13,704
Location
Atlanta, GA
NNID
TheReflexWonder
3DS FC
2492-4449-2771
Because everyone is bad, including myself, I decided to break down the options Squirtle has when neither player is in an advantageous position. By just taking the how-to stuff from the Brawl PT AT thread, no one is given a look at what has changed between then and now, and no one is told why any of this is useful. As it turns out, a lot has changed, and most of it isn't (and wasn't, as far as Brawl is concerned) useful.

I've condensed the useful stuff to a video that is about a fourth of the length of the overall AT video in order to focus on the stuff that you should actually care about while you're actually learning how to play the character in the first place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idvKbuQyEcI

There are four main attacks you will be using when in the neutral position: Jab, F-Tilt, D-Tilt, and Grab.

Jab is Frame 2 and is probably the safest of the bunch. The speed can stuff a lot of opponents' moves by virtue of just coming out before theirs, which is very helpful.

Both tilts are pretty fast and squish Squirtle downward, potentially allowing him to dodge attacks. F-Tilt has the greatest range and is great for getting people off you. D-Tilt has the benefit of setting up for combos, as well as hitting twice, potentially throwing off people who expect to shield just one move.

Grab is the slowest of the bunch, but it's still fairly fast as far as moves go, and it's the only one that reliably beats shields. It leads to Squirtle's best KO option (D-Throw), and it makes your opponent think twice about shielding the other stuff.

There's also the honorable mention of Down-B, as it hits multiple times, has even better range than F-Tilt, can make people slip, and is a projectile. However, it's also the slowest option to come out. It can be sprinkled into the same spots as the other moves listed, really, but relying on it will stifle your understanding of the usefulness of the rest of the options.

Despite Squirtle's high horizontal aerial speed/mobility, his best options stem from grounded movement, so try not to jump at the opponent with landing B-Air, even though that was pretty good in the Brawl days. Also, Squirtle's run speed is really bad, so you'll want to limit your dashdancing. Also-also, because of the last two facts, relying on Squirtle's wavedash as a primary movement tool is really predictable and punishable.

Now, you may be wondering how Squirtle is supposed to get around, given that the three most well-understood methods of movement aren't so hot for primary approaching with him. Here's what you need to familiarize yourself with:

1. Shellshift. This is essentially turning around in a dash. Squirtle slings himself around in a quick snapping motion. The important points of this option are that it makes you faster during the beginning of it, you can do attacks out of it, and you can start another dash toward the end in order to do a second shellshift pretty seamlessly out of an "empty" first one.

During the beginning of a shellshift backward, you can jump out of it and do a B-Air, going noticeably faster than you would with a running F-Air. This shellshift -> rising B-Air is relatively safe and increases the range at which the opponent can't simply react to.

During the second half of a shellshift forward, you can do any ground move within the momentum slinging you forward. Shellshift -> Jab and shellshift -> D-Tilt can be done at various ranges due to being able to cancel at any time throughout the second half, enabling various spacing distances with one simple tactic. Also, a shellshift -> jump-cancel Grab slides Squirtle forward a great deal and can catch people looking to shield your pokes, making it a pretty potent 50/50 up-close. You can also shellshift -> spotdodge, but that requires your opponent to commit in order to see much payoff, and it's much more punishable than the other stuff.

2. Moonwalking. This is done by starting a dash, then immediately doing a half-circle motion from the dash direction to the opposite direction. Squirtle gets a pretty good boost from it, you can start another dash very quickly from an "empty" moonwalk, and it's faster than a shellshift because you don't have to wait for your initial dash to finish in order to do it. Depending on when you let go of the Analog Stick, you can choose to do a Jab, Grab or any tilt in either direction (you turn around if you hold the end direction long enough). This can be used as a feint or to poke toward the slide direction, as the range on a turnaround attack option is pretty deceptive.

3. Wavedashing. This is jumping from the ground and immediately airdodging down and back/forward. Squirtle gains a lot of distance from it, but the landing lag is ten frames long. Squirtle covers the most distance with this option, but it's one of the least versatile options, too, because it leaves you unable to do anything for a bit. However, both shellshifting and moonwalking can be canceled with a jump, meaning that you can put a wavedash between any shellshift or moonwalk to completely change your direction and throw people off, due to the greater distance covered and the sudden momentum switch. Wavedashing into a Jab, Grab, or any tilt is fairly fast and rather effective when used unpredictably.

4. Forward-B. This move has some interesting properties that should be addressed. When done in the air, Squirtle drops downward like a rock, so B-Reversing it when doing a fullhop away from the opponent can often bait them into getting hit by it. As such, it also makes for a pretty good "dive kick" option, and the constant hitbox makes people hesitant when it comes to punishing a missed Forward-B.

There will be more to this, but, here you are for now.
 

Burnsy

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
1,167
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Awesome guide, and I'm digging your decision to put Toe Jam & Earl music over your video. I think it's awesome that you refer to Squirtle's side-b as a "divekick" type move in the air, I always thought it felt similar to a divekick as well.
 

TheReflexWonder

Wonderful!
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
13,704
Location
Atlanta, GA
NNID
TheReflexWonder
3DS FC
2492-4449-2771
Most of my videos have video game tracks over them (though I made that channel recently, so there aren't many videos). I try to use some of my favorites and try to let it match the "feel," to a degree. Also, ToeJam and Earl is good stuff.

I think the sharp fall downward may be an unintentional side-effect of the physics changes, but I definitely like it; I see potential in misdirection due to it.
 

bubbaking

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
6,895
Location
Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
As weird as it sounds, I think sparse dsmashes are also good at times because they often shield-poke, especially if the opponent's shield was previously eaten by something, and it's also non-CCable unless the opponent is only hit by the edges of the attack. You can slide in a decent distance with a WD or hydroplane and pull it off. It's not something to just throw out there repeatedly though, IMO.
 

TheReflexWonder

Wonderful!
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
13,704
Location
Atlanta, GA
NNID
TheReflexWonder
3DS FC
2492-4449-2771
It hits multiple times, lasts a while, and has good range. You could do a lot worse, though it's not really an ideal move in most situations involving that kind of pressure.
 

Tmacc

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
1,921
Location
St. Louis
I've been playing a lot of Squirtle, and wavedash-dsmash can catch a lot of people's landings...sometimes it seems to have a weird hitbox that catches people above Squirtle.

In general, all the of Squirtles I have seen videos of so far don't seem to be utilizing his wavedash nearly enough...there is so much he can do with it, some of which Reflex showed in the video. I think it should be his primary movement option, with mix ups of shellshifts and dashdances, both of which are also amazing. Honestly, Squirtle has the most interesting movement options in the game.
 

bubbaking

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
6,895
Location
Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
Nice tricksies.

In general, all the of Squirtles I have seen videos of so far don't seem to be utilizing his wavedash nearly enough...there is so much he can do with it, some of which Reflex showed in the video. I think it should be his primary movement option, with mix ups of shellshifts and dashdances, both of which are also amazing. Honestly, Squirtle has the most interesting movement options in the game.
That's what Bones and myself have been saying all along since 2.5. (-_-)
 

SpiderMad

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
4,968
If Bair's IASA/Ending was just 1 frame sooner that'd make its SH waveland easy/consistent enough to do some super ****: especially out of that momentum boost thing. Or I could just use a 2 frame buffer, but yeah I'm not going past the awesome 1 frame.

Here's a video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz_29xQKspI&edit=vd

All his aerials can waveland in SH as well as can link together in SH except for a few (and I think Fair/Up-air to Nair doesn't actually get the Nair hitbox out even though the sound comes out) [I forgot to demonstrate Fair/Up-air to Bair]
 

SpiderMad

Smash Master
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
4,968
Yeah that version sucks, but if Bair was 1 frame sooner to IASA/End it'd be comprehensible to use/do. I bet none of you noobs can do it twice in a row without buffer. I play a lot with a 1 frame buffer so a lot of very strict but cool inputs people normally don't do are more viable to use, and then from there my timing is close enough to use it sparingly without buffer (I also use it because it creates smoother more comfortable play, and is super necessary for Wifi to feel like a real game): again that's just and only 1 frame though.

<standardtoaster>: Mad}: it's a 1 frame window to waveland out of bair if you do the bair frame perfectly
 

Nausicaa

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
1,485
Location
Here
Tru dat with the Wavedash part. I haven't watch a single video of Squirtle, but Wavedash > F-tilt is all I did with the character in 2.5. In 2.6, now that F-tilt isn't best (or rather, FREAKING BROKEN) and he has other functional tools (everything else tweaked to work well) I'm actually interested in doing other things.
If WD > F-Tilt wasn't part of your BnB in 2.5, then you missed out on what was essentially a very linear top-tier character. lol

Edit: It still works, but it's small and weak/has some dynamics with it. So it's better (healthier) for the character, good design change. But mahgawd there's no way any Squirtle played optimally won't be abusing this hard-core still.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
If Bair's IASA/Ending was just 1 frame sooner that'd make its SH waveland easy/consistent enough to do some super ****: especially out of that momentum boost thing. Or I could just use a 2 frame buffer, but yeah I'm not going past the awesome 1 frame.

Here's a video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz_29xQKspI&edit=vd

All his aerials can waveland in SH as well as can link together in SH except for a few (and I think Fair/Up-air to Nair doesn't actually get the Nair hitbox out even though the sound comes out) [I forgot to demonstrate Fair/Up-air to Bair]
You can't airdodge during IASA frames. In order to allow Squirtle to WL after bairs, you'd have to shorten the actual move. Not to say I don't think it's worth sacrificing a few frames of bair to allow WLs after, though. If you only need to cut 2-3 frames to make it reliable, then I'll take it.

You can't get nair out after SH fair, but you can pretty easily uair-nair.
 

Burnsy

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
1,167
Location
Phoenix, AZ
I think I saw Strong Bad say in another thread that in P:M, you actually can airdodge during IASA
 

Cat Nip

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
11
Location
Texas, USA
I'm kind of a noob to Smash. Well not really I've been playing for years and years but don't quite have all the tech lingo down. What is IASA?
 
Top Bottom