Spooky's Evil Plans (Dastardly options against each character)

[Nu~]

Hello everyone, and welcome to the thread!

Here is where we will discuss all of the horrible, creative things we can do to each character in smash 4 and how to abuse said options.
My goal to promote creativity across the Pac-Community and to give new or old Pac-Mains some valuable tech to use in order to turn a matchup on its head.
And because...screwing over your opponent is fun ^^


So what are you waiting for?
Let's start plotting our evil plans!

Spoiler: [COLOR=#ff0000

Victims[/COLOR]]
:
-


-Every fruit stops the Clown Cart
-Hydrant stops Mechakoopa
-Power Pellet breaks Mechakoopa


-Trampoline stops raptor boost and falcon kick


-Power Pellet and trampoline stop Flare blitz
-Melon, bell, and key go through flamethrower and keep their hitboxes


-Power Pellet stops gordos
-Every fruit will reflect gordos
-Dire hydrant ignores Uair


-Pac-Man bounces after hit by a banana which prevents diddy from grabbing us
-Pac-Man can plant a hydrant on a banana


-


- Power pellet absorbs pills


-Key will beat all of his projectiles
-Hydrant will beat all of his projectiles
-Power pellet will stop clay pigeon


-Power pellet > lasers
-lasers will make us drop our fruit for quick Z drop access


- Hydrant > Lasers
- trampoline will prevent running usmash kills at


-Trampoline > Wizard's foot & Flame choke


-


-Can't punish dash attack on shield (LOL)


- Power pellet and trampoline stop quick draw


-


-feeding him fruit gives us a punish


-Trampoline > Little Mac


-Grounded pellet stops boomerang and uncharged arrows
-Power pellet can stop bombs if aimed right
Fully charged arrow can't break a hydrant


-Grounded pellet stops aura spheres


-


-Grounded pellet stops fire balls
-Power pellet stops luigi missile


-Grounded pellet stops fire balls


-


-Grounded power pellet stops grounded lemons, crash bombs, and fsmash
-Melon/key/bell beats every projectile
-Galaxian stops Fsmash, lemons, and crash bomb


-Trampoline interrupts dimensional cape


-Grounded PP stops shadow ball


-


-


-


-grounded PP stops PK Fire
-PP stops PK Thunder


-Pikmin latch onto fruit (and get smashed)
-placing a trampoline under the spawn plate steals his invincibility and prevent him from plucking Pikmin for free.


-Trampoline stops super speed
-PP stops autoreticle
-PP drops when it hits reflect (free heal)


-PP stops every fruit outside of Galaxian, bell, and key


-


-PP and hydrant stop thunder jolt


-PP stops arrows and upper dash/Electroshock
-Trampoline stops upper dash/Electroshock


-Laser can't break full health hydrant
-Gyro can't break full health hydrant
-Dropped Hydrants slow down gyros


- PP > Arcfire
-PP > every thunder spell outside of thoron
-you can taunt under thoron


- PP drops whenever rosa wants to GP
-Dair sends luma in tumble
-Hydrant beats Uair


-grounded pellets stop charge shot and missiles


-trampoline interrupts vanish
-PP stops needles
-Charging fruit beats bouncing fish


-When fair activates counter, we can move out of the way of the attack


-Trampoline beats spin dash
-Charging fruit beats homing attack


-Grounded pellet stops arrows and boomerangs
-arrow can't break full health hydrant


-PP breaks lloid
-Dropped Hydrants break lloid

 

[Firedemon0]

In the Villager match up, when the villager has grabbed your hydrant and is obviously fishing to drop it on you. Jump towards them, airdodge the obvious hydrant, then drop your hydrant. It should hit through the first hydrant, allow you to Bair -> Ftilt. and hit the villager with both.
You can weave in and out of obvious bowling ball edge guards while on default or meteor trampoline. You have really effective horizontal movement.

Against Shulk, you can hit his counter with fair > immediate airdodge, and avoid any damage.
You can use the hit stun on some of his aerials to line yourself up for grabs on his horrible landing lag.
You can try to force the wrong art choice by flinging fruit.


Against Little Mac's that recover low, just drop hydrant on ledge as they recover, and laugh as water pushes them away.
You can avoid KO punch with a hydrant drop

Against Wario, You can avoid Waft with hydrant.
If Wario is spamming bite, you can drop hydrant slightly in front of him, forcing him to eat it, then Nair him while landing.
Every fruit except Cherry knocks Wario of his bike.
You can stop him from throwing motorcycle with Trampoline

Against Kirby, you can punish inhale spam with fruit and hit him for more then he gets eating the fruit.

Against Dedede, if he is using his inhale, and sitting there doing it, you can side b him in the face, pretty much for free.
Pac-man is able to effectively bounce back Gordos with every attack he has. I do mean every attack, like seriously, they are so bad.

Luigi's Missle is blocked with powerpellet and fruit.
You can dodge his up-b sweet spot with hydrant.

Against DHD, you can use fruit to change orientation of the can. Forcing DHD to hit it towards you with a laggy attack or allow you to tilt it into them.

I have more, but that is off the top of my head.

 

[Nu~]

Awesome!

We can heal ourselves off of ROB's gyro with side B and drop a hydrant on it to weaken it to the point that we can pick it up.


We can gimp Ness by Side B'ing his recovery, and we can Side B his PK Fire

We can remove diddy's banana from the game temporarily by covering it with a trampoline.

We can cover villager's sprout with a hydrant

Pikachu's Thunder jolt can be absorbed by Side B or the hydrant, and then we can just Bair the hydrant into his face.

Our melon and every fruit above it outprioritizes every one of Mega Man's projectiles.

Sonic's Spin Dash loses to our grab and his homing attack homes in on our fruit whether it's charging in our hand, or thrown near him.

 

[Spirst]

Charizard's Flare Blitz loses to trampoline, certain fruits, and you can power pellet it if the chain is extended enough. He'll hit the power pellet, and go into the usual recoil animation while you can just heal.

Zelda/MK/Palutena can't teleported past a trampoline when the teleport is done grounded and the trampoline is grounded.

If Villager pockets a meteor trampoline and tries using it while moving horizontally in the air, chances are he will spike himself. The hitbox still activates and since he falls when he places in the air, it hits him and spikes him down.

D3s Gordos can be used to power pellet heal.

I'll look for more stuff later on.

 

[BSP]

If you're fighting a Palutena who spams reflect barrier, you can walk up to it and Side B. The barrier will stop your pellet, giving you a free heal every time she throws out reflect out of fear.

If Villager sets up the Timber Counter tree, you can PP heal off of it, but you have to space it correctly or the tree will hit you when it stops the PP.

You can stop Luigi's fireballs with PP, and a sitting PP will block any grounded fireballs he throws.

When Rosalina does Gravitational Pull, if you are in its range, begin a PP and immediately press A. Pac-Man should start the PP and then immediately eat it. It works in the air too. If you aren't fast enough, the pellet will fly to Rosa quickly.

When Rosalina does gravitational pull on a hydrant, it's cooldown timer is pretty much gone.

Unless someone knows a better method, I think our fastest way to combo -> KO Luma from center stage without any setting up and with Luma at 0% is Dair -> Dair. The final hit of Dair will put Luma into its tumbling animation regardless of its %. On Omega Boxing ring, I was able to easily KO Luma with Dair -> Dair from center stage, and it was in tumble throughout.

As @ fromundaman pointed out, if Rosalina grabs the ledge and you have your hydrant ready, throw it down when she grabs it. Dead Luma. If you don't have it ready, I'd fall off and Dair Luma, which should KO it as well, even at 0%.

Melon will pass through Bowser's fire breath unhindered.

 

[Nu~]

If you're fighting a Palutena who spams reflect barrier, you can walk up to it and Side B. The barrier will stop your pellet, giving you a free heal every time she throws out reflect out of fear.

It also stops all three hits of auto reticle

 

[Splooshi Splashy]

Against , Galaga ship (?), Bell, and Key will beat ALL of DH's projectiles, letting you get in on him. Every Fruit between Cherry & Melon, however, lose to all of DH's projectiles.

Against , properly placed Hydrants can box in non-Impatient Mechakoopas and force it to walk towards the Hydrant, granting you stage control and a chance for you to pick it up yourself.

Against , if any non-Purple Pikmin are thrown onto your Power Pellet, your Side B may get stopped, but said Pellet may get dropped, allowing for anyone in the room to try to pick it up for health.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

'S Raptor Boost, FSmash and Falcon Kick all get beaten by Trampoline, same for Ganon.
'S can can be PP'd when he kicks it at you while you're recovering, changing its direction.

'S Luma can be killed by planting an On-Fire Hydrant between the two.
The flames will shred Luma.

 

[NimbusSpark]

A Z-Dropped Galaxian thrown down can absorb a recovering Ness's PK Thunder, thus rendering him helpless. I assume Bell and Key can as well because they are also projectiles with 'piercing' properties, but I haven't tested that yet. But if that isn't evil for Pac, I dunno what is.

Also, like how Trampoline can stop ground Falcon Kick, Wizards Foot, etc. it also can nullify:
- Both Pit and Dark Pit's respective Side B's.
- ZSS's Plasma Dash Customs.
- Mii Brawler's Onslaught.
- Fox and Falco's respective Side B's.
- Ike's Quick Draw.
- Bowser's Dash Slam and Dash Slash Customs. Flying Slam is not counted as it does not alter Bowser's general movement.
- Bowser Jr's Koopa Kart.
- Possibly Meta Knight's High Speed Drill Custom when used on the ground? I need confirmation for this, I'm not too sure.
- Lucario's Advancing Force Palm Custom.
These were all done at the top of my head.

Also, out of context, I noticed the Pac-Man:AiT image and smiled (is it Adventutres in Time? I can't remember the last time I played that game on CD-Rom. I literally got that thing from one of those LCM's packets with the rainbow chocolate chips when I was a kid. ).

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Using an arrow spamming Pit to drop powerful Fruit, using the tramp to kill off his FSmash and Meteor Tramp his recovery

 

[Nu~]

 

[Galaxian]

Fox. You know Fox. We all do. 20XX is happening, anyway.

But what can WE do against Fox? Personally, my favorite is "punish the above-ledge Fox Illusion with Orange or Melon". It's so ****ing satisfying to watch them just slam FACE FIRST into the fruit and get KO'd.

Works against Falco too, I guess.

 

[Nu~]

If we place a trampoline under the spawn plate, opponents are immediately bounced up once they leave the spawn plate.

This has a number of applications such as lowering the amount of invincibility an opponent will have once they reach the ground (which ruins olimar horribly)
Thanks to my main man @ fromundaman for this tech.

For those Pac-Mains who want to time opponents out, we can also use it to make opponents stay in the spawn plate if they don't want to lose their invincibility.

We can also pick up fallen fruit from Rosa if she tries to GP anywhere besides long range (we should be torturing her Luma from mid range anyway)

 

[Galaxian]

If we place a trampoline under the spawn plate, opponents are immediately bounced up once they leave the spawn plate.

This has a number of applications such as lowering the amount of invincibility an opponent will have once they reach the ground (which ruins olimar horribly)
Thanks to my main man @ fromundaman for this tech.

For those Pac-Mains who want to time opponents out, we can also use it to make opponents stay in the spawn plate if they don't want to lose their invincibility.

We can also pick up fallen fruit from Rosa if she tries to GP anywhere besides long range (we should be torturing her Luma from mid range anyway)

The real way to torture Rosalina is to pause and refuse to unpause until your opponent stops playing Rosalina.

If you get DQ'd, it's worth it.

 

[Nu~]

The real way to torture Rosalina is to pause and refuse to unpause until your opponent stops playing Rosalina.

If you get DQ'd, it's worth it.

Lol you still fear rosa?

Because I don't.

Call me a masochist, but I'm enjoying the rosalina matchup now. GP is fun to play with.

GP is incredibly punishable in mid range. If she tries to use it on my fruit in mid range, I just pick it up with a dash attack for a free z drop and free damage. Rosa should never use GP on the hydrant because if he are within a 1/3 of the distance of FD close to her, we can punish it (who cares about its low cooldown if the move lasts a year long)
I'm starting to think that Rosa's GP might be worse than the average reflector because of how laggy and nonoffensive it is. As long as you stay within mid range, her GP only helps you by giving you your fruit back as a z droppable item.
Keys and melons are your best friends. The key eats luma and blows rosa away, and in combination with the hydrant, it's an instant luma destroyer. You have to use the key at mid range or closer however, so that you can catch it once it hits the ground and she ran aims in the GP animation.
Any further and you just gave rosa your key.

The melon is good because you can run with it. If rosa GPs, then you can pick it up quickly with a dash attack since you are so close to it. If she shields, Luma gets blown back, and you can recatch the melon.

Rosa's uair loses to hydrant. This is pretty big, because rosa can't juggle us well like she can to any other character. If she baits the hydrant and uses an aerial GP, then ff nair her, or use the time to escape the area right above her.

GP only forces us to play a more mid range/CQC game, but it doesn't hinder us in any way. We shouldn't camp with pac-man anyway.

Now for Rosa's CQC.
She outranges us, it's pretty obvious. But her attacks last for centuries. If you powershield her nair, you can immediately follow up with a nair of your own or a double fair into nair. This is what makes the trampoline so amazing in this matchup. She can't approach us safely, and she is too slow to catch our landing. Fight rosa in the air, only if you are in her face. Stick to the ground if you are a distance away so that you can play the punish game. Her dair can be punished OoS by trampoline, her uair can be punished by the hydrant, her fair should never be used as an approach due to its landing lag and weird hitbox, and her nair can be punished out of a powershield or shield drop.

Fighting so many high ranking rosa players on smash ladder has changed me, I don't fear rosa any longer.

 

[Galaxian]

Lol you still fear rosa?

Because I don't.

I don't fear her, I just hate facing her.

Space Elsa needs to go. She's a chore to fight.

 

[Nu~]

I don't fear her, I just hate facing her.

Space Elsa needs to go. She's a chore to fight.

I don't like her design in general, but it's incredibly fun to troll her. Everyone thinks that it's a guaranteed win against Pac-Man if they bring out their Rosa...

I dance around them, drop hydrants on every luma, and steal my fruit back in mid range. GP really sucks in mid range.

 

[fromundaman]

A few things:

-Diddy actually can pick up bananas under a trampoline in a few ways. He can jump on the trampoline and just press A as he hits it. He can stand at the edge of the trampoline and press A. Depending on how close to the edge the banana is, he can even just DA into the trampoline and still pick it up.
That said, it does force him to either jump or slowly approach the edge of the trampoline to pick up the nanner.

-Pikmin will latch on to fruits when they are being thrown or charged. This is awesome because they don't hurt us, but are still unusable by Olimar unless he whistles them back, wasting his time. If you throw the fruits with them on it, they will travel with the fruit and also take damage if the fruit hits something.

-Kirby's copy can be punished on hit by throwing a hydrant at him during his ending lag. This is really dumb. I am kind of unhappy that Kirby STILL gets punished for successfully landing an inhale, but since it's there abuse it.

-Shiek's Needles set up hydrant. From afar you can stand on or behind your hydrant and let it act as a shield while you charge a fruit. If she hits the hydrant with any number of needles, it sets it up for an instant Bair launch. If you are fast enough in sending it back at her, her options consist of "Shield the hydrant when you come out of ending lag" or "Throw a single needle to punish the Bair and make a terrible Gamestop trade of a needle for a hydrant".

-The above also works for Pikachu's thundershocks.

-Shiek's Fair: Trampoline this **** on block. It will beat all of her followups. Just be careful and make sure she actually hits your shield. If you let her whiff it as a bait, then she can punish the UpB.
Of course, if you're waiting for her to hit shield, remember to stay vigilant against an empty jump>grab.

-Shiek's Vanish gets interrupted and punished by UpB. YEAH! **** your invincible kill move!

-Villager: You can hit him out of Pocket to make him lose whatever he pocketed if you hit him as he's stuffing the item into his shirt.
Also keeping a charged key allows you to punish a hydrant as it is being dropped and make it hit Villager during the ending lag.



... Blah I'm tired; I'll come back if I remember more.

 

[LanceStern]

A few things:

-Shiek's Fair: Trampoline this **** on block. It will beat all of her followups. Just be careful and make sure she actually hits your shield. If you let her whiff it as a bait, then she can punish the UpB.
Of course, if you're waiting for her to hit shield, remember to stay vigilant against an empty jump>grab.

-Shiek's Vanish gets interrupted and punished by UpB. YEAH! **** your invincible kill move!

... Blah I'm tired; I'll come back if I remember more.

You're saying trampoline out of shield? I'd really have to see this, cause her fair to ftilt or jab is pretty disgusting

 

[fromundaman]

You're saying trampoline out of shield? I'd really have to see this, cause her fair to ftilt or jab is pretty disgusting

It is indeed, but Trampoline comes out frame 1, and Fair actually has little to no blockstun, it's just that when followed up by a jab it only leaves a window of a few frames to punish. We are one of the few characters to actually have a punish option on this.

Sometime this week I'll upload a bunch of matches vs one of our area's top Shiek players (And one of our best in general). It's on my friend's WiiU, but going to be grabbing his console to record replays before the patch wipes them all out.

 

[MachoCheeze]

If a is spamming Reflector just use Bell as its trajectory goes right over it if spaced well and BAM free punish.

 

[PEPESPAIN]

I love this thread!!!! Really good idea!!!!!

 

[Nu~]

I love this thread!!!! Really good idea!!!!!

Thanks man! I had a feeling people would like it lol.
There are just so many possibilities with this character.

 

[BSP]

@ Nu~ you should post your list of characters that will be force bounced by trampoline on the ledge here.

For those characters, that means getting them offstage nearly removes going to the ledge as an option for them once you get your trampoline red. They die if they do anything but ledge drop, and if they wait, you smash attack them.

If they do ledge drop and try to stall you out, jump off with them and time a side B to snap the ledge when they hit it. It is extremely difficult to wall tech when you're getting hit while you're touching to wall.

 

[Nu~]

Characters that get bounced by the trampoline on the ledge no matter the get up option

 

[fromundaman]

Is that with a trampoline on stage above the ledge or offstage touching the ledge?

 

[Nu~]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9mcp1km67hbla2f/Pacman Ledge Red Trampoline trap.xlsx?dl=0

Credit to @ fromundaman

 

[fromundaman]

Oh by the way, forgot to put it in whatever thread we were talking about Sonic, but key actually does have one very good use against Sonic:

If he ever uses UpB over the stage for any reason, be it to make himself safe, escape combos, recovering high, chasing, etc, key will punish his landing no matter how he chooses to do so.


Also I'm not sure what he has that causes RCO lag, but you can punish that with key as well (it's how I close out game 1 against ITT in the last batch of replays I uploaded).

@ BSP

 

[NouveauRétro]

People have said stuff about it already, but melon plows through pretty much any energy based projectile and a couple of physical ones too.
Mostly usable against. On some random FG match melon ignored metal blade, lemons, Crash Bomber, and I even got a kill by throwing a melon through his nearly fully charged fsmash and it punished the lag. So if they're a "sit back and throw projectiles" type, this should work as a pretty good tool.

Even if the melon doesn't beat it, it will clash, usually nullifying the projectile and flying up into the air for easy regrab and Z-drop shenanagans. HYDRANTS AWAY!

 

[BSP]

Since the concept of out camping Pac-Man was brought up, I looked into what a sitting PP can block and other things. Might be repeating some stuff, but just to reinforce:

: His cape won't launch hydrant. If you launch it at him while cape is out, even if it has already struck the hydrant it'll be reflected back at you. Wait until the cape reflection window is over, and then hit it at him.

: Grounded PP will stop all grounded Fireballs
: Don't throw a galaxian at fire breath. It will lose its hitbox. Besides it, everything Melon and up will keep its hitbox and hit him.
: Lasers will never launch hydrant
: If he laser spams, you can PP shield and heal yourself, but the timing is tight. Alternatively, place a hydrant. Be careful as they will launch it eventually. Throw something at Falco while he shoots.
:Grounded PP will block all water stars unless fully charged , which pierces through.
: Grounded PP will block Boomerang
: Grounded PP will block large enough aura spheres.
: Grounded PP blocks grounded lemons, Fsmash, and crash bomber, with the latter exploding on impact. Metal Blade will pierce through. Melon beats all of his projectiles; Galaxian will beat lemons and crash bomber, nullify metal blade and Fsmash but lose its hitbox

: Don't have him, but grounded PP probably stops large enough shadow balls
: Red, Blue, and White Pikmin will latch onto a grounded PP when throw. Yellow can latch, but will most likely go over it. Purple pierces through. The thrown pikmin go through Fire Hydrants.
:Grounded PP will block gyro shots from down B. Gyro thrown from ROB's hand will go over it.
: grounded PP will block larger charge shots
: grounded PP blocks needles
: Grounded PP blocks bombs and boomerangs thrown from the ground.
: grounded PP will block Lloid Rockets
:grounded PP will block large enough sun salutations

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From some quick testing, were able to run through grounded hydrants. Speed can too. I didn't test everyone, but notably and cannot.

 

[Nu~]

Side B PP will stop raptor boost, upperdash, and electroshock.

Grounded PP can stop Rosa's star bit laser

 

[PEPESPAIN]

Update the first post please

 

[abit_rusty]

So what's the quickest way to set up a grounded power pellet?

 

[Nu~]

So what's the quickest way to set up a grounded power pellet?

To allow it to get hit by an attack or projectile

 

[abit_rusty]

To allow it to get hit by an attack or projectile

I see. I guess I didn't really consider how simple it is. Just side B into an incoming projectile, right?

 

[fromundaman]

Yessir, although it takes a bit of practice to do it well. I know I am still really bad at timing a special cancel into a pellet block.

 

[abit_rusty]

Thanks. I only just realized the applications of the dropped PP because of this thread. The person I regularly play with isn't so easily gimmicked and it's a weird dynamic because he mains Wii Fit and is especially proficient at edge/offstage fighting camping, which has pretty much forced me to master that. Still, any extra tech to deal with the constant sun salutations and volleyballs is a plus. Aside from the obvious z-drop fruit and hydrant edgguards I don't have much special to contribute to this thread.

I'm seriously in love with this character though. I feel like it would be fun to delve into the mindgames of hydrant setups because having a hydrant out almost always impacts opponent behavior. How to capitalize on that modified behavior would probably elevate the Pacster.

 

[SpottedCerberus]

Any fruit can clash with a charge shot; even a cherry. A couple of the stronger fruits even beat it and keep their hitbox. (Melons and keys, I think? But I don't know if they still beat out a fully charged shot.)

Mega Man likes to shoot Crash Bombs at the hydrant, because they explode on impact. This also happens with Villager's trees and Luma, and it's very useful in both match-ups so they think it would be effective against Pac-man too. But a crash bomb will never launch the hydrant, only deplete its health. Then you can launch it at him with a quickly thrown fruit or an attack.

Remember you can catch Metal Blades. Pac-mains should be better at this than anyone else, with all the practice catching fruit. Plus, you can still charge and throw fruit while holding a metal blade. But note that the Metal Blade, unlike Bonus Fruit, will at some point disappear if it hits the ground. (I mean that Bonus Fruit will never be dropped on the ground and instantly disappear. It always sticks around for a short time before flashing and vanishing. Not so with the Metal Blade. Its staying power is woefully inconsistent.) It also doesn't bounce off of opponents, and it falls faster so you can't z-drop and re-catch with an aerial like he can. (This is because it was tailored to fit Mega Man's fall speed, and, while Pac-man falls slower than most, Mega Man falls as fast as Falco.) So, while it's fun to use Mega Man's z-drop techs against him, we don't get the same mileage out of them because we don't have a crazy KO move like his u-tilt, and we can't re-catch them as far as I can tell; I think the smart way to play is defensively rather than offensively. Hold onto it for as long as you can, because it's his best projectile. Then you can wall him out with your special moves, all of which are effective for playing keep-away.

If you get hit by a lemon, you'll drop whatever fruit you're charging. This is true for any attack, but because Mega Man's lemons are long ranged with no knockback, (except at the end of his mega buster) you can easily pick up the fruit right away without risk of him getting to it first. You can use this to discourage lemon spam, as Pac-man is far more dangerous when holding a fruit.


Bouncing fish will bounce off of a charging fruit, leaving pac-man unharmed. I don't know how useful this is, but it is hilarious.

 

[BSP]

@ Nu~ update plz.

: Key and Melon are not cancelled by Thoron. Both will fly through Arc Fire as well.