Special Tier list topic (Please read opening post)

[Silverflash-x]

Hey Longhorn. You probably remember me. >.< I decided to make this name the same as my Gfaqs one. Anyways, you already know a few of my opinions, but I'll comment on the whole thing.

Top Tier:
Snake --- Perfect
Meta Knight --- Perfect
Mr. Game and Watch --- Perfect
Marth --- Perfect
Falco --- Perfect
R.O.B. --- Perfect


High Tier:
Toon Link --- ... I'm not going to go into it again, but move up to bottom of Top Tier.
Ice Climbers --- Good, but I would move them one space higher, to the top of High. After you move TL up of course. =D
Pikachu --- I don't know. I'd say move down a bit. Definatly still high, but maybe lower high.
King Dedede --- Move down below Wolf. You say matchups are the main thing to determine placement inside tiers, and Wolf has better matchups.
Wolf --- See DeDeDe, but maybe move Wolf above Pika, right below ICs.
Olimar --- Such a great character. If it wasn't for the recovery...move above DeDeDe IMO.
Diddy Kong --- Perfect
Fox --- Move down to Mid Tier, at least to the very bottom of High.
Pit --- Perfect
Wario --- Move down to Mid. Character wise, he's not that great. Not very good matchup wise either. Tourney results are they only thing holding him up, but that's not enough for High Tier.
Kirby --- Maybe move to Mid. I don't know, i'd like some reasoning on this one.


Mid Tier:
Lucario --- Move down a few spots.
Lucas --- Perfect
Zelda --- Move up to High. Probably upper High too. Zelda is amazing, she in no way deserves Mid Tier. And I don't even main her, I just know that she's very good.
ZSS --- Perfect
Donkey Kong --- Perfect, first correct DK placement i've seen.
Ness --- Move below Bowser. After the whole grabbing thing, even if it only works with PT/Marth, it's still a very bad thing with anyone. They can get off a free smash usually.
Luigi --- Perfect
Bowser --- Maybe move up a few spots, but pretty good.
Mario --- Perfect

Low tier :
Sheik --- Move down to bottom of Low. Sheik is simply really bad. >_>
Yoshi --- Move down a bit.
Peach --- Peach is actually really good. Since you can hold down and jump to float a few inches above the ground, you can seamlessly chain air attacks and ground attacks. That alone is enough to warrent Mid.
Pokemon Trainer --- Move up to Mid. The whole Stamina thing isn't character-killing. As long as you're great with 2 and decent with the 3rd. The flexibilty to change characters as the situation chages is invaluable. Yes, I know character changing is tough, but if you knock someone away you should have enough time. Honestly, PT is great if only for his adaptability as damage increases.
Ike --- Not bad. Maybe up one or two spots, but still pretty good.
Sonic --- Perfect

Bottom Tier:
Link --- Unfortunately, perfect. He was my main in both the other games.
Samus --- Move below Ganondorf, above C. Falcon. She's just really, really, really terrible.
Jigglypuff --- Perfect
Ganondorf --- Maybe move above Jiggs. Not bad though.
Captain Falcon --- Perfect. He really needs to show his moves.

So anyways, those are my thoughts. The biggest problems are:

Toon Link in High (Should be Top)
Zelda in Mid (Should be High)
PT in Low (Should be Mid)
Peach in Low (Should be High)
Wario in High (Should be Mid)

 

[Smashbros_7]

Sony, if that's you, I TOLD YOU TO GET OFF MA NUTS!

 

[ZK_]

That's the best list i've seen O__O

 

[St. Viers]

heh, as seeing as my "scrubby tier list" greatly resembles this, I have to say I like it.

Wario seems a bit high, but that;s due to him winning tournies. I can see him dropping when people get used to him. Unfortunately, cause he's hella fun to play as.

 

[Yuna]

I'm sorry, this is special how? This is just you constructing your own tierlist based on discussing it with others. It belongs in the thread designated for this kind of talk.

This just looks like a desperate cry for attention. "Look at my tier list! Look! Look!" - despite the fact that the rules state quite clearly where this should go (and apparently already has gone). This is in no way special, it's just more of the same thing, the common user trying to form a tier list.

Do it in the appropriate thread.

 

[Browny]

why does this deserve its own thread... everyone else can use the official discussion thread.

----
using mostly the tourney results from the US, Daily tourney results list from Japan, and overall character abilites and matchups
----

If you used mostly tourney results, i would have expected this to look a lot different than it does right now. glaringly obvious is the location of ice climbers, pit, zelda and sonic. the tourney data thread has each of those characters at around 15 positions lower, lower, lower and higher respectively. So it becomes obvious tourney results werent what you used 'mostly' except for the placement of top tier which is pretty much indisputeable.

overall character abilities is pretty d@mn subjective. how do YOU put weight on advantages such as range, projectiles, damage etc. Adult link has massive range, many projectiles, high damage but are those completely ignored because of his somewhat slow pace? how does ike get any higher than link when hes worse is almost every aspect except knockback. and please dont use the matchup thread. its irrelevant. Dedede having a plethora of bad matchups never stopped him winning tourneys all the time.

 

[Smashbros_7]

I'm sorry, but even debating a tier list at this point is futile...especially with this game. I main Zelda, and I believe my Zelda is pretty good. When I'm playing against a person and see what character he picks when the match starts, I never look at that character and go "I'm screwed" or "I've got this" (except Wario ). It's much to early in the game to tell, no major game altering AT's have been discovered that have been able to break the amazing amount of balance that Sakurai put into this game. It's more about player skill this time around, and less about character selection... and i love it. Yes there are bad matchups, but that's hardly enough to go by to make a tier list. Even using tourney results can be misleading this early in the game...give it a year or so, let the metagame develop, and let Brawl run it's course through the MLG circuit for a season, then start speculating.

???

 

[Smashbros_7]

Hey Longhorn. You probably remember me. >.< I decided to make this name the same as my Gfaqs one. Anyways, you already know a few of my opinions, but I'll comment on the whole thing.

Top Tier:
Snake --- Perfect
Meta Knight --- Perfect
Mr. Game and Watch --- Perfect
Marth --- Perfect
Falco --- Perfect
R.O.B. --- Perfect


High Tier:
Toon Link --- ... I'm not going to go into it again, but move up to bottom of Top Tier.
Ice Climbers --- Good, but I would move them one space higher, to the top of High. After you move TL up of course. =D
Pikachu --- I don't know. I'd say move down a bit. Definatly still high, but maybe lower high.
King Dedede --- Move down below Wolf. You say matchups are the main thing to determine placement inside tiers, and Wolf has better matchups.
Wolf --- See DeDeDe, but maybe move Wolf above Pika, right below ICs.
Olimar --- Such a great character. If it wasn't for the recovery...move above DeDeDe IMO.
Diddy Kong --- Perfect
Fox --- Move down to Mid Tier, at least to the very bottom of High.
Pit --- Perfect
Wario --- Move down to Mid. Character wise, he's not that great. Not very good matchup wise either. Tourney results are they only thing holding him up, but that's not enough for High Tier.
Kirby --- Maybe move to Mid. I don't know, i'd like some reasoning on this one.


Mid Tier:
Lucario --- Move down a few spots.
Lucas --- Perfect
Zelda --- Move up to High. Probably upper High too. Zelda is amazing, she in no way deserves Mid Tier. And I don't even main her, I just know that she's very good.
ZSS --- Perfect
Donkey Kong --- Perfect, first correct DK placement i've seen.
Ness --- Move below Bowser. After the whole grabbing thing, even if it only works with PT/Marth, it's still a very bad thing with anyone. They can get off a free smash usually.
Luigi --- Perfect
Bowser --- Maybe move up a few spots, but pretty good.
Mario --- Perfect

Low tier :
Sheik --- Move down to bottom of Low. Sheik is simply really bad. >_>
Yoshi --- Move down a bit.
Peach --- Peach is actually really good. Since you can hold down and jump to float a few inches above the ground, you can seamlessly chain air attacks and ground attacks. That alone is enough to warrent Mid.
Pokemon Trainer --- Move up to Mid. The whole Stamina thing isn't character-killing. As long as you're great with 2 and decent with the 3rd. The flexibilty to change characters as the situation chages is invaluable. Yes, I know character changing is tough, but if you knock someone away you should have enough time. Honestly, PT is great if only for his adaptability as damage increases.
Ike --- Not bad. Maybe up one or two spots, but still pretty good.
Sonic --- Perfect

Bottom Tier:
Link --- Unfortunately, perfect. He was my main in both the other games.
Samus --- Move below Ganondorf, above C. Falcon. She's just really, really, really terrible.
Jigglypuff --- Perfect
Ganondorf --- Maybe move above Jiggs. Not bad though.
Captain Falcon --- Perfect. He really needs to show his moves.

So anyways, those are my thoughts. The biggest problems are:

Toon Link in High (Should be Top)
Zelda in Mid (Should be High)
PT in Low (Should be Mid)
Peach in Low (Should be High)
Wario in High (Should be Mid)

No... Just no.

Toon Link stays in High, Im fine with that.
Zelda may seem like Goddess, but she's overatted IMO
PT should DEFINITELY move up to high mid. No joke.
Peach in low. She stays their until I get 3 stocked by her.
Wario in High. Im fine with that. He's a good character, and like you said " Wario is amazing, And no way deserves Mid Tier. And I don't even main him, I just know that he's very good.
plus you forgot Ness
He stays above Bowser.

Shiek should move up though. Maybe to mid?

 

[Greenpoe]

Guys, didn't you read Longhorn's post? If you want to argue for a character to move up or down, post some valid evidence, not just, "I think x character is a pretty cool guy."

 

[Serph]

Ganondorf is second bottom? Bloody hell...what has Sakurai done?

Sigh...oh well. I'll still use him I guess.

 

[Devil7]

I agree that it is to soon to come up with an accurate tier list due to a lack of meta game overall in brawl so far and we need to wait. However what is here is pretty accurate according to is played so far. I do disagree that metaknight should second on the list as I don't believe his metagame is that developed. Also I know ganon sucks but he has more potential than jiggs, samus, link, possibly on par with sonic and ike. He has thunder storming, stutter stepping, and palm plant. Link and samus have zair, and the jiggs is well the jiggs.

 

[Llumys]

Erm... Not terrible.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Pikachu is higher **** you brawl folks and hatin pikachu, is it a trend ?


Ill post evidence in an hour, im in school right now with no time

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I'm sorry, but I have to close this. I can definitely see all the effort you have put into this list, and I can see how much time and research you've done for it. But look at this from my perspective. If I allow your topic to stay open, then someone else makes another tier list topic that sucks and I close it (trust me, it WILL happen, as I've seen this stuff happen many times before). But then they can make a complaint in the forum dispute board, and I'D be the one to get in trouble for it.

At least you can still discuss this in the sticky ^_^