Oracle_Summon
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2013
- Messages
- 5,059
I have already addressed those points. The Subspace Emissary has been swept under the rug by Sakurai. The fact that it is not continuing contributes that any merits it holds with the new Smash is moot.We're never going to get anywhere if you don't address my points. Simply saying the exact opposite of what I said is not a refutation. You need to explain why you think the previous game in a series doesn't matter when it comes to developing the sequel.
Nope. Wolf's in one game has allowed him to be more diverse than Falco in Falco's entire existence. You claim that Sidekicks matter more than villains/rivals, when in fact, they don't. That is like claiming that the Joker is less important than Robin, when it concerns the importance of the series. It is what the Joker stands for and all that he is against Batman.This one is pretty difficult to decipher, but I don't think Falco's role as a wingman being important is the point you've been making otherwise we'd be agreeing. The point I'm making is that Falco's role as a wingman is an important aspect of the Star Fox series. His persistent presence as such, combined with two SSB games under his belt, gives him priority over Wolf who in comparison has only one SSB game and some boss fights to his name.
Except for the fact that there was nothing that separated Falco from either Peppy or Slippy that gave him reason to be in Melee over those two. He did get in, but we have to look as to why. Falco is most well known for Ignoring orders, putting him and his allies in danger, and going off on his own.Hypothesizing about what might have been if Peppy or Slippy were included in Melee instead of Falco is totally unproductive to this discussion. That's not what happened. Falco was included in Melee and that can never be undone.
Your statement holds no merit though. Villains are more important than a sidekick that is not even iconic. Falco did not earn his spot amongst Diddy Kong or Luigi. Falco is forgetful when you compare him to the rival of the protagonist of the entire series. Falco may have been there since the beginning, but unlike Diddy Kong and Luigi, he has done nothing.As I've said before, being a constant companion to the main character is a more important role than a rival character with intermitten appearances in some of the games. With screen time of almost 100% in many of his appearances, Falco is a familiar face of the Star Fox series and a key part of the team gameplay, one of the core aspects of the franchise. You haven't addressed this yet, you're just repeating that Wolf is an "obstacle to challenge Fox" without explaining why that gives him priority.
If all you can say that Falco's mere existence gives him precedence over Wolf than you are sadly mistaken. Merely existing gives him nothing.
And characters with original movesets take precedence over existing clones. Falco would serve better as an alternate costume.See above. Pretending I haven't already explained why this is not the only reason Falco takes priority doesn't make my comments disappear. For the record, even without Falco's larger role in the Star Fox games, his appearances in the Smash Bros series alone would be enough for him to take priority anyway. As is the nature of any video game sequel, previous entries bear a huge influence over the design choices made by the development team.
That only applies to Falco. The only thing that Falco has going for him in movesets is his Down B move.It is the same move with different modifiers. looking at some of the custom moves we've seen so far in SSB4, I'd say it's about as similar as some of those - a variation on one move with different attack properties or visual effects.
This video shows the major differences between Falco, Fox and Wolf:
With Falco gone, Fox would have more moves to his arsenal and would better sense than scrapping an original character for a character that barely does anything different.With Wolf gone, he certainly wouldn't need a massive overhaul to feel as different as Wolf because he can simply take assets from Wolf's appearance in Brawl. Again, it doesn't matter what the character looks like, recreating a character in SSB4 is the same amount of work. They're not porting characters over and tweaking them.
Falco's appearance with his moveset mean nothing, because those moves can be easily be given to Fox. Wolf's cannot, because he and Falco fight entirely different.
A 'wingman' would be trained just like his partner. Giving Falco, Wolf's movesets would make no sense.
Except, they are tweaking characters, but making them better.
The fact that you suggested giving Falco Wolf's moveset proves that Wolf has alot more going for him than Falco does in terms of keeping his spot.
False, you simply won't accept that Falco brings nothing to the Star Fox representatives than an empty skin. The only moves that Wolf shares with Fox is his B and Down B move.Either way, I wouldn't accept making Falco feel only as different from Fox as Wolf is as being adequate. Neither Falco or Wolf stand out from Fox, Wolf just stands out slightly more than Falco. Both characters would require a serious overhaul in order to feel truly unique.
Falco's only different move that does anything significantly different is his down B move.
Just because Falco is not unique does not make Wolf the same way.
There is no reason to keep Falco except for his popularity with Smash Fans and Tourney Players.
Wolf is as similar to Fox as Ike is to Marth.
Falco had to take things from Fox to have his blaster different with Fox in Melee. Fox also seeks and destroys his enemies, making "Falco's" laser suit him as well.I don't see how that's strictly relevant, but yes I suppose it does. Slipping in sneak shots to bulk up damage to the opponent without impeding their movement is pretty tricksy.
False. Wolf is the exact image of what Fox isn't in ever aspect. Falco is nothing more than a Wingman who can easily be replaced with Slippy or Peppy Hare.I will refer to my previous example. Magnus picked up the ring in Kid Icarus Uprising. Had he not picked up the ring, Pit would have stayed stuck there and Hades would have taken over or whatever. This means Magnus was important to a pivotal event in the game's story - however, he only makes appearances in three of the game's twenty-five chapters, in ONE of the three Kid Icarus games. This means Magnus's role in the Kid Icarus series is relatively small, and is why he'd never be considered for an appearance in SSB. Cycling back to Star Fox, this is why Wolf's august position as "a thorn in Fox's side" isn't enough for him to take priority over a character with a larger role in the series.
You argue that Falco's not being important in story doesn't matter, but Wolf's influence on Fox does when it comes to relevance? Again, the only reason why Falco would ever come back is because he has been in past Smash games, not because of his "importance" to anything relating to Star Fox.
If Falco comes back, it is because he merely exists.
You make zero sense. You are simply moving goal posts for Wolf to jump through.
Edit: The main reason why Magnus was not added was because Palutena has done way more than Magnus has done in his whole existence when it comes to the plot. The same cannot be said for Falco.
All three are just there to help Star Fox. The game centers around Fox McCloud and who is his rival? Star Wolf. The fact that Falco could have been merely switched with Slippy or Peppy Hare makes Falco's implementation into Smash worthless.Granted that Falco might not be more important than Peppy or Slippy, but all three are a larger part of the series than Wolf. The games are about the Star Fox team, the Star Fox team is on the box, the series is named after the Star Fox team. The members of the Star Fox team are the main characters. Falco's importance to Star Fox is supplemented by his appearances in the Smash games. That's what gives him more overall significance than Peppy or Slippy when it comes to SSB. Why he was chosen for Melee over the other two is neither here nor there; the fact is that he was chosen, and that must be taken into account.
You are running yourself into a cycle that holds no merits. Falco is only important because he did not look like Fox when it came to Melee and that, Slippy or Peppy Hare were not chosen. Falco does nothing more important than Slippy or Peppy Hare.
Star Wolf matters because he is the leader of his own team, like Star Fox, and works against Star Fox and his whole crew.
In your example the only reason why Falco should be included is that he, Slippy, Peppy Hare, and Fox form a team, without Slippy or Peppy Hare, the Fox team is not there.
Still does not change the fact that Falco has done nothing worthy of being called significant. Without Peppy Hare and Slippy besides Fox and Falco there is no showing of the team. The only reason Falco is remembered is because he got lucky when being picked for Melee when Wolf is more important, remembered, and popular.Naturally, that's not what I'm disputing. Wolf had at least enough merit to secure an inclusion in Brawl. But Falco has been around more than Wolf, you're right, and that's why I'm suggesting that in the even one of them leaves then Falco has more justification for staying taking into account his combined roles in previous Smash titles and the Star Fox series.
And you are wrong about that aspect entirely. Wolf has done way more, and represents more sides of the Star Fox games than Falco ever will without Fox's whole team.From my perspective, what I'd really like (continuing our hypothetical situation that only two SF characters make it into SSB4) is two Star Fox reps that are very different from one another, not just variations on the same thing. I explained in my previous posts that Falco is by no means obligated to appear exactly as he did in the previous game. I believe his following from two previous Smash Bros games and his role as part of the Star Fox team are enough to give him priority over Wolf as a character. I am not advocating Wolf be cut and for Falco to breeze through unchanged. I'm not even advocating Wolf be cut. All I'm saying is that as a character, Falco has much more security should one of them need to be removed.
When it comes to cutting characters, the one that is vastly different than the other is safe. That is not Falco.
You can try to spin this however you want, but nothing changes the fact that Wolf is more deserving of his spot than Falco ever will on his own.
I don't want Falco cut either, but don't lie and say that Falco is safer than Wolf when it comes to significance. Falco only has Smash Fans and Tourney popularity as his only merits.
It is the fact that Speculator is trying to justify that Falco is more important than Wolf and safer than Wolf when it comes to cutting characters. Which is entirely false.There's no rule saying that clones can't have similar customization options as their original counterparts, they are clones after all. It's not going to endanger anyone, it really isn't an important enough feature to affect the roster itself, and especially not such a popular character as Falco.
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