ImpossiblyRood
Smash Apprentice
There is a Bowser video thread, you know. I'm sure we elite few could muster up some netplay videos/streamed matches. Come, brothers! To the YouTubes! Commence our battles for the entertainment of Rags!
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Spacing and tips with bowser
- Thread starter Rags
- Start date
Actually, there's another thing, am I the only one who wonders why he can't act out of a hit on down b when it hits shield? I kinda wish we could. It takes so much to land a down b anyways, but unless it's a gaurenteed hit, we get punished hard for it.
FakeKraid
Smash Apprentice
I don't play online at all. As for videos, there might be some old footage of me playing, but nothing recent enough to be worthwhile. However, my friend recently got some streaming equipment and a Twitch channel, so if you want I can get you the info for that and let you know when I am playing him. It won't be this weekend, but I'm going to try to get some time in next week.
FakeKraid
Smash Apprentice
Oh, and I mostly use down-B to catch edges. You don't even have to be facing the ledge to catch it with a down-B, so go wild with it there; it's basically impossible to punish under those circumstances. If you're not near an edge I would only use the Bomb against opponents with a weakened shield or whose heads you have very thoroughly gotten into.
ImpossiblyRood
Smash Apprentice
Yeah, downb shouldn't be a often-used move save for ledgegrabs and the occasional aerial reach punish (if people try to hard to kill you off the top you can sometimes surprise them with it and net a KO).
It was a little sarcastic, but mostly facetious. I'll record some of my games with my buddies and plop it on the YouTube for you if you'd like. I'm no wizard with Mr. Koopa, but I think I'm decent enough.
It was a little sarcastic, but mostly facetious. I'll record some of my games with my buddies and plop it on the YouTube for you if you'd like. I'm no wizard with Mr. Koopa, but I think I'm decent enough.
Frost | Odds
Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
edgeguarding is completely different depending on mu.
- if they suck at sweetspotting, bair.
- if they recover high, down b bair/fair.
- if they're a spacie, do whatever.
- if it's someone you can force to recover to just barely onstage, hang on the ledge, then reverse Klaw them to doom
- ledgehop nair is pretty ok
- flame breath stuffs some vertical recoveries
- down b from a distance (you can hold to the side to make it travel farther) to surprise people who mis-time their ledge grab
- dair is also really good and reaches below the stage, esp on its landing hitbox. Ledge cancel dair-> something else is gahlike
- you can run offstage, midair hop, fair a lot of people, esp spacies about to firefox
bowser's edgeguard game is sick, easily one of the best in the game. Its biggest problem is he can't go low at all, so some people come back kinda for free, and you have to reverse klaw them or smth.
- if they suck at sweetspotting, bair.
- if they recover high, down b bair/fair.
- if they're a spacie, do whatever.
- if it's someone you can force to recover to just barely onstage, hang on the ledge, then reverse Klaw them to doom
- ledgehop nair is pretty ok
- flame breath stuffs some vertical recoveries
- down b from a distance (you can hold to the side to make it travel farther) to surprise people who mis-time their ledge grab
- dair is also really good and reaches below the stage, esp on its landing hitbox. Ledge cancel dair-> something else is gahlike
- you can run offstage, midair hop, fair a lot of people, esp spacies about to firefox
bowser's edgeguard game is sick, easily one of the best in the game. Its biggest problem is he can't go low at all, so some people come back kinda for free, and you have to reverse klaw them or smth.
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Okay I think I am FINALLY getting the matchups down. When in neutral, bait an apprach and CC is and downtilt in return, once they become aware, they'll either apprach high or dashdance outside of the downtilt range. From there you can keep pushing them, back with D tilts and flame breath, but I'm unfire how to counter the high approaches, with Downsmash or uptilt?
Frost | Odds
Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
utilt is more of a combo move, also good to stuff slow moves that you read like fsmashes or whatever, and get kills off the top on floaties.
dsmash is ok - and is often the optimal move for punishing, but it's better to tech chase (especially on fastfallers) and punish some dash attacks and stuff. More often you'll probably want to jump backwards and fair, or dash attack against aerial approaches.
If they're coming in from straight above you, nothing in this game beats your usmash.
dsmash is ok - and is often the optimal move for punishing, but it's better to tech chase (especially on fastfallers) and punish some dash attacks and stuff. More often you'll probably want to jump backwards and fair, or dash attack against aerial approaches.
If they're coming in from straight above you, nothing in this game beats your usmash.
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ImpossiblyRood
Smash Apprentice
Your anti-airs are uptilt, upsmash, downsmash, shffl'd nair... the list goes on. depending on how fast and at what angle they are appraoaching from you'll have multiple options to defend yourself. If all else fails, shield the approach and upb oos.
(Also, if you still cared about me sending in some bowser footage, I can no longer record because my external hard drive isn't being recognized by my computer. I haven't forgotten. Just defeated by technology)
(Also, if you still cared about me sending in some bowser footage, I can no longer record because my external hard drive isn't being recognized by my computer. I haven't forgotten. Just defeated by technology)
Dang another win for the machines... Curse you Technology!
Though @
Frost | Odds
I find it hard to land Upsmash except against high recoveries and through platforms. Also any way to capilize on the shield damage from a shielded F smash or down B?
Frost | Odds
Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
I really dislike fsmash. I never use it intentionally - you'll pretty much always find that another move does the same thing, better. Usually ftilt.
And yeah, I don't often use usmash either. It's pretty situational - used pretty much only through plats or against committed stuff like tink's dair.
And yeah, I don't often use usmash either. It's pretty situational - used pretty much only through plats or against committed stuff like tink's dair.
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ImpossiblyRood
Smash Apprentice
I'm inclined to disagree with you on your fsmash opinion, actually. I detested Bowser's Fsmash originally. But it's really grown on me. It's not to be used lightly or without care, but if you can read a recovery perfectly, you practically win immediately. Not to mention the demoralizing factor. But, for the most part, I agree with it's rare usage.
Fsmash I find as a good anti-dropdown approach. If people - like ness or fox or someone who would do this with any regularity - is approaching with a dair or something, the super-armor frames make it a wicked good anti-air in a pinch. Otherwise, you're better off with your other options.
Frost | Odds
Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
Fsmash is good maaaaaaaybe once a set to make people fear/respect it. I can't imagine risking it more often than that. Every time I see JaimeHR go for one I cringe. If you can make it work, more power to you, but I don't recommend.
I find it can't be countered against a marth though. Even if they try to, the knockback will just be ignored and can push people off the ledge on shield. Though once the shield damage is done, it's hard to get the other person to shield again to break the shield.
Frost | Odds
Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
A good marth will just grab you out of it.
FakeKraid
Smash Apprentice
I use it to freak people out as a feint because it actually has very little cooldown - most of its lag is windup, so it's quite safe if your opponent isn't right next to you. There's nothing quite like watching an aggressive opponent suddenly flee to the other side of the stage in panic.
It's also great for punishing recoveries that often go above stage like DK's, Snake's, and probably Squirtle's, though I haven't had many chances to try that one.
EDIT: just saw Rags' post. Edge-guarding with Bowser deserves its own thread because it's about half of his offensive game and kind of complicated. I'll see if I can do that later today.
It's also great for punishing recoveries that often go above stage like DK's, Snake's, and probably Squirtle's, though I haven't had many chances to try that one.
EDIT: just saw Rags' post. Edge-guarding with Bowser deserves its own thread because it's about half of his offensive game and kind of complicated. I'll see if I can do that later today.
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Goobgoyle
Smash Cadet
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- RWolffe
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Not sure if this is relevant, but I've noticed up throw > side B is a pretty interesting DI trap. I can usually get two side B in at low percentages and whack them with fair or nair. Is this a reliable tech?
is this against a fast faller? Sounds like it
Goobgoyle
Smash Cadet
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Yeah, it is. I probably should have specified that, but I was using it primarily as a pressuring/conditioning tool since they typically won't fall for it very much after you get them the first couple times. Probably isn't very useful in high level play, but figured I'd see what the community thought. It's fun to do xD another way I was able to do it was up throw > jump > side B in case they felt like staying floaty
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ImpossiblyRood
Smash Apprentice
I usually find upthrow -> fair is a more reliable combo. If it works, it works, but don't expect it to work too long as the grab-box of koopa claw can be fairly easily avoided with appropriate DI.
Goobgoyle
Smash Cadet
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Of course, I was thinking it would be a bit more along the lines of it being a funny little tech to pull off to punish bad DI. A command grab chain, if you will. It can be finished with any aerial, really. Figured it wouldn't hurt to throw it out there xD
ImpossiblyRood
Smash Apprentice
of course, of course! The koopa claw is a fantastic mixup if you can pull it off. If you do the reverse throw, you can make it a finisher. All I meant was that it's generally an impractical combo as any DI makes it hard to pull off on a regular basis.
Frost | Odds
Puddings: 1 /// Odds: 0
It's worth noting how goddam hilarious it is hitting people with b-reversed Bowser Bombs
Jacob29
Smash Ace
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"Space and tips"
I see what you did there...
edit: also side question..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceIuyif5gIM
is JaimeHR moonwalking at the start?
I see what you did there...
edit: also side question..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceIuyif5gIM
is JaimeHR moonwalking at the start?
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ImpossiblyRood
Smash Apprentice
Nah, he's just dash dancing in a weird way. If he was skidding in one direction but moving in the other he'd be moonwalking. Oh damn, Bowser's moonwalk must be awesome.
ImpossiblyRood
Smash Apprentice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QulEdZPdbQ#t=46
This is bowser moonwalking. It's not as skid-tastic as I thought it would be, sadly. But JamieHR definitely isn't doing it. He's doing Marth-style dash dancing (full dash length turnarounds), which are useful as Bowser... I guess.
This is bowser moonwalking. It's not as skid-tastic as I thought it would be, sadly. But JamieHR definitely isn't doing it. He's doing Marth-style dash dancing (full dash length turnarounds), which are useful as Bowser... I guess.
FakeKraid
Smash Apprentice
Dash-dancing definitely has uses for Bowser. You can set up pivot grab punishes with it, for one thing.
Yeah I need to work on my dash dance game. Looks like he wavedashed around the ledge too. I need to get my bowse moving like his, mine looks slow in comparison.
But guys any tips for low percent? Anything you guys notice people tend to do in certain situations at low percent? At high percent I can manage control, but low percent is where I get worked. So I want to try and avoid that if at all possible since the other person plays and probably feels like they can get away with things easier. Like CC my Dtilt.
But guys any tips for low percent? Anything you guys notice people tend to do in certain situations at low percent? At high percent I can manage control, but low percent is where I get worked. So I want to try and avoid that if at all possible since the other person plays and probably feels like they can get away with things easier. Like CC my Dtilt.
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ImpossiblyRood
Smash Apprentice
I would go with starting off rather defensive. Toss out some flame cancelled fire breaths at neutral range, retreat into upb's, and abuse uptilt on fast fallers and floaties (it outspaces most floaty characters for some reason).
Personally, I play a kind of constricting neutral game. What I try and do - optimally - is keep my opponent squished up against the ledge by using fairs and flame breath to keep them back, then get them offstage with agressive aerials, dtilts or ftilts and start the edgeguard process. If you're playing a defensive game (meaning you're being actively pressured constantly), abuse upb oos into fair or aerial chase. Rinse and repeat.
Personally, I play a kind of constricting neutral game. What I try and do - optimally - is keep my opponent squished up against the ledge by using fairs and flame breath to keep them back, then get them offstage with agressive aerials, dtilts or ftilts and start the edgeguard process. If you're playing a defensive game (meaning you're being actively pressured constantly), abuse upb oos into fair or aerial chase. Rinse and repeat.
ImpossiblyRood
Smash Apprentice
I realize I was unclear. At low percents, you have to chase defensive upbs with normal sh fairs, flame cancelled fire breath, or dtilts. At high percents - when upb's really pop people up - you can chase it with jump-cancelled downb to fair or upair, or a regular fair or upair. If they aren't KO'd, you can either start to edgeguard, or bair them then start the edgeguard.
Granted, this is smash and nothing ever works this perfectly, but that's generally what I aim for.