Source Gaming Presents: Smash 4 Project Proposal Transcripts

[Delzethin]

Personally? I think whoever was behind the Gematsu Leak did have some information...but they also made a few guesses to plug the gaps. Chrom was one of those guesses, as was the Chorus Kids.

 

[ChikoLad]

I'm not questioning Miis themselves. It's the fact that they were specifically listed as Mii FIGHTERS. Which is entirely unique to Smash and was never a common name.

And I'd add Villager to that. He was by no means a logical guess after what Sakurai said during Brawl. Everyone did think he should have been, but figured Sakurai had been set in his opinion of him.

And I'll reiterate that I've never seen someone specifically address them as Mii Fighters. Do you have anywhere that shows someone calling them that prior to their reveal? A Mii in Smash would naturally be called a Mii, their name. Just like every other character on the roster. Mii Fighter is something that came about with their Smash reveal. Not prior, except for the leak.

I'm supposed to know how often you lurked prior to joining? And I never said this was the entire community. Look elsewhere on the Internet as well, and still no one guessed the Wii Fit Trainer. Even look at the reactions on Miiverse. As painful as it sounds when I say that, they do represent the common, non-speculative community pretty well, or at least the younger part. No one guessed it. Wii Fit being important didn't matter. For one, people considered it just another game in the Wii series, which would get a character in the form of the Mii. That was the consensus not just here, but everywhere, enough so that even Wikipedia recognizes the Wii "series" of games. The Trainer was literally never guessed outside of a throwaway joke in 2008.

And way to throw the word "cancerous" around like it's trivial, by the way. I see you're getting angry about this, so I'll drop it. Wouldn't want this to derail.

No, because it's what such a common, unremarkable occurrence that I never documented it. Not that I'm that obsessive over speculation to begin with...

You aren't supposed to know I lurked. But you also aren't supposed to assume my time on this site has ANYTHING to do with what we're talking about. :V

And you still didn't answer my question regarding WFT.

And I'm not angry at all, but I'm far from the first person to call the Smash speculation community "cancerous" or some such term, it's casually thrown at them a lot of the time, because they create a vile, egotistical atmosphere everywhere they go and take things way too seriously and personally, even though they are just a bunch of nerds overthinking (...or arguably, not thinking enough) about what characters will be in a video game, at the end of the day. The fact that this very site has more than one topic trying to dictate how discussions should go or who people should vote for in the ballot, is damning evidence of that.

 

[Wanderer from Roseyard]

I'm going to ignore the showdown going on and comment on the original post. I find this sort of thing interesting and wish Sakurai would share more details about the game's development. I'm also curious to read more of his descriptions of the other newcomers and see how the ideas changed over the two and a half years or didn't.

He didn't want to share details on cut content from Brawl because he intended to use those ideas in an eventual fourth game, and the case may be the same here, so what we're seeing here is probably a highly abridged version of his presentation rather than the entire thing.

 

[CrossoverMan]

I like how they still had the designs looking vastly different than the official artwork.

Not really. The character designs featured in Smash 4 are more accurate to the official artwork outside of Smash Bros than any previous game in the series but not necessarily identical, and that's what Sakurai wanted.

When I first saw images of Smash 4 on Gamesradar, I honestly thought that the images of Mario were actually taken from Super Mario 3D World or something.

 

[CrossoverMan]

No, because it's what such a common, unremarkable occurrence that I never documented it. Not that I'm that obsessive over speculation to begin with...

You aren't supposed to know I lurked. But you also aren't supposed to assume my time on this site has ANYTHING to do with what we're talking about. :V

And you still didn't answer my question regarding WFT.

And I'm not angry at all, but I'm far from the first person to call the Smash speculation community "cancerous" or some such term, it's casually thrown at them a lot of the time, because they create a vile, egotistical atmosphere everywhere they go and take things way too seriously and personally, even though they are just a bunch of nerds overthinking (...or arguably, not thinking enough) about what characters will be in a video game, at the end of the day. The fact that this very site has more than one topic trying to dictate how discussions should go or who people should vote for in the ballot, is damning evidence of that.

Obsessive speculators can be annoying, sure, but calling them cancerous is a bit much, in my opinion. Speculating about upcoming games is ultimately harmless. Plus, I'm pretty sure the almighty mods are trying to prevent threads that tell people how to vote in the ballot from cropping up (I may be wrong on that though, since I haven't really been keeping up with this site recently).

I'm not too big on how some speculators try to demean other peoples' opinions and personal tastes because they believe that any other character that could potentially get into Smash could somehow reduce the chance of their favourite character from making it in.

 

[ChikoLad]

Obsessive speculators can be annoying, sure, but calling them cancerous is a bit much, in my opinion. Speculating about upcoming games is ultimately harmless. Plus, I'm pretty sure the almighty mods are trying to prevent threads that tell people how to vote in the ballot from cropping up (I may be wrong on that though, since I haven't really been keeping up with this site recently).

I'm not too big on how some speculators try to demean other peoples' opinions and personal tastes because they believe that any other character that could potentially get into Smash could somehow reduce the chance of their favourite character from making it in.

By "cancerous", I literally just mean that one little section of the speculation community will start to perpetuate negativity and irrationality, and then it spreads out and out. Like a cancer that spreads throughout a body. That's a well established figurative use of the word, it's not offensive or demeaning of the real disease "cancer" or anything.

I'd like to say the mods stamp out topics like that, but they actually stickied one for no apparent reason. From my experience (much of it is personal PM stuff that happened a few months ago so I won't elaborate beyond that), many of the mods here are not all that great and I often question how some got the position with the way they handle situations and treat certain users, often with clear bias. That's all I'll say on that.

I'm generally fine with any character within reason, but I just dislike the sense of entitlement many people have and how personally they take things. I also dislike the idea that the poll winners on small forum communities automatically are the "winners" of the ballot overall.

 

[Kamikazek]

Between this, the dev diaries, and all the interview, I'm freakn' amazed that we're getting this much transparency out of a Japanese developer.

 

[Camc10]

Personally? I think whoever was behind the Gematsu Leak did have some information...but they also made a few guesses to plug the gaps. Chrom was one of those guesses, as was the Chorus Kids.

Ehh, I wouldn't really call Chorus Kids a complete guess. Since we do have the sneaky spirt in Smash Run and data of a Rhythm Heaven stage, a RH character may have been considered. Whether or not it was Chorus Kids is another question.

 

[MYU2]

Wasnt the RH data found only in the wii u? My guess is that it probably was the chorus kids (in the beta phase) being tested on the wii u like the ice climbers but they didnt make it far

 

[---]

Cool stuff. Didn't realize Sakurai had his own line of books until I looked them up on Amazon.jp. They are cheap, but there certainly a decent amount of them.

Gematsu was real IMO, at least as much as a rumor/leak can be.

By "cancerous", I literally just mean that one little section of the speculation community will start to perpetuate negativity and irrationality, and then it spreads out and out. Like a cancer that spreads throughout a body. That's a well established figurative use of the word, it's not offensive or demeaning of the real disease "cancer" or anything.

I'd like to say the mods stamp out topics like that, but they actually stickied one for no apparent reason. From my experience (much of it is personal PM stuff that happened a few months ago so I won't elaborate beyond that), many of the mods here are not all that great and I often question how some got the position with the way they handle situations and treat certain users, often with clear bias. That's all I'll say on that.

Trust me, there is a greater desire for killing things off than there is for new threads as a whole. Most of the time it's for the lesser of two evils. Ex. every social thread ever.

I think that thread was stickied to try and contain much of the ballot hyped. IDK as that was not me personally. "shrugs" If you have an issue with a mod (or any Staff Member) or think they're showing blatant bias feel free to make a thread within Forum Support.

 

[ChikoLad]

Cool stuff. Didn't realize Sakurai had his own line of books until I looked them up on Amazon.jp. They are cheap, but there certainly a decent amount of them.

Gematsu was real IMO, at least as much as a rumor/leak can be.



Trust me, there is a greater desire for killing things off than there is for new threads as a whole. Most of the time it's for the lesser of two evils. Ex. every social thread ever.

I think that thread was stickied to try and contain much of the ballot hyped. IDK as that was not me personally. "shrugs" If you have an issue with a mod (or any Staff Member) or think they're showing blatant bias feel free to make a thread within Forum Support.

I'll keep that in mind in case anything ever happens again, thanks. I have faith things should be relatively fine though.

 

[PushDustIn]

Lol, Chrom wasn't even considered.

Maybe he was initially planned before the final game's roster was announced (in the date mentioned there) and that was what the leaker went by? Just a theory.

It doesn't. That's the point. Gematsu believers thought that Chrom was originally plannes as the new FE rep, but they decided on Robin later. However, this shows that Robin was always planned, with no sign that Chrom was.

So I did more research into Chrom in Smash, and here's what I found.

Chrom had a full moveset decided.
Sakurai struggled with Robin vs. Chrom, ended going with Chrom.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Rosalina, Robin, and Duck Hunt were probably in the document because they're the most different fighting when it comes to new additions and probably knew that they would be the hardest sells. Villager's different too but with how wildly popular Animal Crossing is, an eventual Animal Crossing rep was probably a no brainer. Sakurai imagined Rosalina and Robin as special snowflakes and Duck Hunt was super obscure so I'm sure he was worried about those three being rejected the most.

 

[PushDustIn]

Rosalina, Robin, and Duck Hunt were probably in the document because they're the most different fighting when it comes to new additions and probably knew that they would be the hardest sells. Villager's different too but with how wildly popular Animal Crossing is, an eventual Animal Crossing rep was probably a no brainer. Sakurai imagined Rosalina and Robin as special snowflakes and Duck Hunt was super obscure so I'm sure he was worried about those three being rejected the most.

These aren't the full slides. The Smash Tour slides aren't shown, and a lot of the characters are missing. This is only a selection.

 

[LancerStaff]

My opinion on Gemastu? Only had the E3 information and otherwise made educated guesses. You don't just say "Chrom is totes in, Shulk up next" and not mention Robin when he was planned from the very beginning instead of or along with Chrom. Rosalina too. It's really the only thing that makes sense...

 

[Mo433]

My opinion on Gemastu? Only had the E3 information and otherwise made educated guesses. You don't just say "Chrom is totes in, Shulk up next" and not mention Robin when he was planned from the very beginning instead of or along with Chrom. Rosalina too. It's really the only thing that makes sense...

I can't agree more.

 

[PushDustIn]

Another theory is that the Gematsu leaker had access to the first presentation. This is probably the second project proposal, as the game had already started development before Sakurai even joined the team. That would mean Rosalina, Duck Hunt and Robin were actually "second wave" characters. Of course, no additional information about Bowser Jr. is known at this time so it's not a completely solid theory.

 

[Dr. Barrio]

A game theory.

thanks for watching

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

I wonder if Smash 5 will have 4 Versions of each Special. If it does, I would like to see more variety!
I love seeing how the art-style changed. It makes more sense than even Melee's.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Lol

He planned the duck hunt dog near the begining.

 

[lordvaati]

Another theory is that the Gematsu leaker had access to the first presentation. This is probably the second project proposal, as the game had already started development before Sakurai even joined the team. That would mean Rosalina, Duck Hunt and Robin were actually "second wave" characters. Of course, no additional information about Bowser Jr. is known at this time so it's not a completely solid theory.

This one is most likely, as it was the same with Paul Gale and the PS All-Stars leaks.

as for the Gematsu thing, IIRC it' because he said "Main character of Awakening" and just thought it was Chrom....but it ended up being the other main, Robin/Avatar.

 

[PushDustIn]

This one is most likely, as it was the same with Paul Gale and the PS All-Stars leaks.

as for the Gematsu thing, IIRC it' because he said "Main character of Awakening" and just thought it was Chrom....but it ended up being the other main, Robin/Avatar.

Ahh that is possible. I've been trying to get ahold of Sal Romano so he could clear up some things. I'm also wondering what the emails originally said (in Japanese). But I think he might be done with that Smash Leak as he hasn't responded.

 

[Arcadenik]

It pleases me greatly that Duck Hunt was one of the first characters added to the game. Sakurai picked Duck Hunt because of several reasons:

- Duck Hunt was bundled with the NES in the USA
- the unique idea of "third party cover fire"
- the notorious Duck Hunt Dog
- the unique idea of a dog using a duck for attacks and recovery
- being the game's WTF character

Damn, I love that Sakurai uses the same "stupid" reasons I provided to the detractors all those years ago to justify Duck Hunt Dog's inclusion.

 

[Blazin']

Sakurai has talked about it before. Apparently they were intended to be alternate costumes but then he was like ehhhhhh why the heck not and added them in as characters. I still don't understand why electroshock arm and arrows and ftilt are the only notable differences. At least do the Lucina thing and maybe give him sweetspots but I guess it was too late in development.

Yeah, yeah, I know. I'm just curious as to if there was some sort of other reason that seemed a little more reasonable. Their movesets could have been at least a little more varied. But the game has been out for nearly a year now, so I don't see it happening. The clone characters as they are now are completely fine in my honest opinion though because that's all they are; clones. Maybe if there's ever a Smash 5 they'll be re-added and tweaked.

 

[linklore]

I'm not questioning Miis themselves. It's the fact that they were specifically listed as Mii FIGHTERS. Which is entirely unique to Smash and was never a common name.

And I'd add Villager to that. He was by no means a logical guess after what Sakurai said during Brawl. Everyone did think he should have been, but figured Sakurai had been set in his opinion of him.

And I'll reiterate that I've never seen someone specifically address them as Mii Fighters. Do you have anywhere that shows someone calling them that prior to their reveal? A Mii in Smash would naturally be called a Mii, their name. Just like every other character on the roster. Mii Fighter is something that came about with their Smash reveal. Not prior, except for the leak.

I'm supposed to know how often you lurked prior to joining? And I never said this was the entire community. Look elsewhere on the Internet as well, and still no one guessed the Wii Fit Trainer. Even look at the reactions on Miiverse. As painful as it sounds when I say that, they do represent the common, non-speculative community pretty well, or at least the younger part. No one guessed it. Wii Fit being important didn't matter. For one, people considered it just another game in the Wii series, which would get a character in the form of the Mii. That was the consensus not just here, but everywhere, enough so that even Wikipedia recognizes the Wii "series" of games. The Trainer was literally never guessed outside of a throwaway joke in 2008.

And way to throw the word "cancerous" around like it's trivial, by the way. I see you're getting angry about this, so I'll drop it. Wouldn't want this to derail.

How can anything NOT be guessed? By the very definition of guessing, it involves making an assumption without previous knowledge. Specially when referring to it as a lucky guess. If there were previous indications leading up to it, it wouldn't be a guess, it would be a conclusion

 

[Opossum]

How can anything NOT be guessed? By the very definition of guessing, it involves making an assumption without previous knowledge. Specially when referring to it as a lucky guess. If there were previous indications leading up to it, it wouldn't be a guess, it would be a conclusion

Too many things for it to have been a coincidence, in my opinion. Not really gonna elaborate further.

 

[darktiko]

An proposal?! Woah there smash bros, take me to dinner first geez