SOTW Rebirth

[Neon Ness]

I've been thinking about this for a good while, like before I even became a moderator. Something I would really like to do for the Sig Shoppe is bring back Signature of the Week Contests.

For anyone who is unfamiliar with the idea, take a look at the old thread. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191764

It's basically a periodic GFX contest for people who make sigs (think Art With Your Power on a smaller scale). I'm looking around and, besides the Sig Critique Topic, there's not a whole lot to... do in the Sig Shoppe. I think something like this would be fun, and may even attract newcomers/lurkers who enjoy making sigs. Basically each contest has its own theme or even set of challenges to abide by (limited color scheme, specific subject matter, etc.) and the one who fits the theme closest is declared winner.

Not only that, but with more postbits than ever, I think some sort of postbit icon that signifies your sig making prowess would be a nice little incentive for trying these contests.

Now, there are some problems with SOTW rebirth, and this is what I want to ask everyone about.

The main one is judging and how to decide who gets to judge the submissions. In the old SOTW, Sgt Wikez and the other 'more experienced' tagmakers formed a panel and judged submissions. Personally, that just seems a little too subjective to me. At what point does a person become good enough to be a judge? That question is really hard to answer without bias, and I think it will lead to trouble, but others might disagree.

I've been browsing Global Sig Alliance over the summer and recently, and the way they do their regular competitions is to have a voting system based on a poll. I think this is more fair than arbitrary standards for choosing judges. I just make a poll, and the one with the most votes is the declared winner. One forseeable problem is deciding tiebreakers though. Another thing about a poll is it lacks the feedback factor that AWYP has. When you have judges, they can go in depth about what you could improve on for next time, but that element is lost with a poll. Then again I guess it's not like you have to be a judge to offer feedback.

Right now, I'm willing to head SOTW (or month, or whatever) threads alone since I can make polls. Depends on what system we decide on for declaring winners though.

Some sort of compromise would probably be best, or maybe there's some better alternative option I didn't even consider. So, Sig Shoppe, and anyone who cares about a rebirth of SOTW, I want your opinions on the matter. Hopefully through enough discussion we can iron out the best way to bring back Signature of the Week.

 

[SuSa]

Sites I used to go to had a poll as well, and entrants could vote for themselves but most actually voted for others'. I think it's more of a courtesy thing that the entrants would have to agree to. (Almost like a soft ban! Hahahaha)

Also for tiebreakers, you do another poll. Unless a tiebreaker was 6-6 and not a single other entry got a vote. O_o But usually just doing a recount between those two works solves a tiebreaker. If another tiebreaker happens, then the members each create a new work in the same theme to be voted upon. [So consistancy matters] ||| But tiebreakers are usually pretty rare... I think I've seen 1 or 2?... EVER?

Due to activity, I think it should be every fortnight or month unless activity for this picks up.

I tried to revive this at one point, but I felt bad because I... well.. left SWF shortly after so I never got around to it. =\

Then again, I'm actually a bit against the Sig Shoppe's existance. I see it as a place for... well.. Sig Shops. :s I see the AE as the main art display/critique/contest area. But I think this thought is only because of the lack of signature artists.... :x


EDIT:

Could you also add for a tutorial subforum? =\ A thread makes it very hard to find a specific tutorial (EG: Pen Tool Tutoral, Signature Tutorial, How to use C4D's, proper use of layers, etc.) because you have to go through EACH AND EVERY POST in the thread. [Not that there is a lot of posts]

But I do plan to release my tutorials and resources soon. [So actually, a Tutorial/Resource subforum would work better] as currently I don't know where to put my resources.

 

[Wretched]

Thats a wonderful idea.
I can prolly get gimp and show you guys my moves (sigs).
I'd be worried about lack of votes, though, even if we did do polls.

 

[Neon Ness]

Awesome, sounds like a poll system might be the way to go then. Which I'm glad about, since choosing judges would really have been a hassle.

Could you also add for a tutorial subforum? =\ A thread makes it very hard to find a specific tutorial (EG: Pen Tool Tutoral, Signature Tutorial, How to use C4D's, proper use of layers, etc.) because you have to go through EACH AND EVERY POST in the thread. [Not that there is a lot of posts]

But I do plan to release my tutorials and resources soon. [So actually, a Tutorial/Resource subforum would work better] as currently I don't know where to put my resources.

Well, yeah I could try to ask about another subforum for resources.

Thing is, AE is not all that active. So I can't help but ask myself if the amount of traffic this place gets (read: very little) really warrants a subforum. I think with the small community we have a resource/tutorial thread is fine. It's like you said, there aren't exactly a flood of posts pertaining to resources/tutorials so a whole subforum might be extraneous.

To answer your question, if you want to post a tutorial you made for sigmaking this here's where you want to post it: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236126 There's rules and guidelines and stuff in the OP.

Not sure exactly what else you meant by 'resources'. There was a Turtorial & Resource thread in the main AE (lot of really good stuff in there), but a while back, all threads older than a certain date were archived. So I'll need some time to get that thread back into existence.

Glad a few people seem on board for this so far though.

 

[SuSa]

The amount of views we get compared to posts is insane though. :x Lot's of looky-lous, even if they don't post.

Again, I'm sort of against the existence of this subforum. But figured I'd throw out the resources/tutorals idea (.psd's with LRO/PR, self-made brushes, redistributions from owners (with permission, as many give permission right on their resource), etc)

Nowadays I'm far more open with my resources, and let them be posted by anyone-anywhere. I don't even care for credits, unless it's of some artistic value to me (read: .psd's for my work) because I feel resources should be shared and open.

Tutorials = How to do something
Resources = The materials to do something; stocks, renders, .psd's, brushes, patterns, etc.

 

[Yink]

When I did SOTW and SOTM on other sites, we usually did the names of the sigs anonymously and with a poll. The Anonymous was honestly one of the BEST things I've ever seen because voting for your friend became a little harder. Once the SOTW/M was over, the winners were shown and all the sigs were given the rightful owner's names.

For tie-breakers another poll was given...THOUGH...I've seen that sometimes no tie-breakers are given and the two sigs that tie are given both first prize. Either or seemed to work out pretty well.

As for topics, this can be kind of hard as well. I'd personally try to stray away from things that can blatantly use easy renders or images (such as "Nintendo, Mario, Halo" etc). That's pretty opinional though, so sorry for that. It's just really interesting to do topics like "Paradise" because that holds many meanings. It's fun to see what people consider "Paradise"

Just my two cents.

 

[Neon Ness]

Great ideas, Yink. Especially like the anonymous thing. I guess for that to work though... how would we turn that into a thread with a poll?

Like... if we had a SOTW #1: Nintendo (ex.) thread, would it be better for all the entrants to PM their submissions to me and just have them listed in the OP? And then people vote in the poll? Almost seems like a waste for a whole thread lol.

And yeah, the themes won't be anything cliche like "Mario" or anything. I have some good ideas. That's another thing, it'd be weird if I decided all of the themes. Maybe starting at #2 the winner(s) decide on the next theme, but also forfeit their spot in participating should they choose to do so. Just to prevent people from choosing themes they'd excel at and keep an unfair win streak.

Does anyone have any other specific format suggestions?

Rules and deadlines would be listed in the OP of course.

Size Requirements: Minimum 250 x 100, Maximum 375 x 175. Do you guys think the size limits should be a little different?

One entry per person.

You can only vote once, of course. Monthly contest sounds good until activity picks up somewhat (hopefully )

I was thinking of having a SOTW index (stickied) linking to the actual contest threads, as well as serving as a hall of fame to display past winners.

If anyone has ideas for a postbit prize we can try to sort that out as well.

 

[SuSa]

Maximum size: 500x200 [This is a size I use fairly often, but anything larger and I wouldn't consider it a "signature"] although this is relatively large. My standard size is 450x185 though =\ so I'd have to learn to work smaller if we keep your maximum.

Also the anonymous thing is ruined a lot thanks to the PM system. Your friend can just ask you which one is yours, and you can tell them. =\ it also makes the thing harder to run (as all entries have to be sent to the poll-maker) and it ends up being more work than it's really worth.

 

[Yink]

Great ideas, Yink. Especially like the anonymous thing. I guess for that to work though... how would we turn that into a thread with a poll?

Like... if we had a SOTW #1: Nintendo (ex.) thread, would it be better for all the entrants to PM their submissions to me and just have them listed in the OP? And then people vote in the poll? Almost seems like a waste for a whole thread lol.

No. It'd work more like:

*FAKE POLL: NINTENDO CHARACTERS*

Option 1 (Instead of the NAME of someone, post like, sig 1)
Option 2 (then sig 2, once again, no name)
...
Option 7 (the last person etc)

I've seen this used so many times, and it seems to work out. When I said bringing the names out, I meant after voting was over and then putting up who made what sig. It's really the community's call on what and how we should do this though.

And yeah, the themes won't be anything cliche like "Mario" or anything. I have some good ideas. That's another thing, it'd be weird if I decided all of the themes. Maybe starting at #2 the winner(s) decide on the next theme, but also forfeit their spot in participating should they choose to do so. Just to prevent people from choosing themes they'd excel at and keep an unfair win streak.

This has always been a bit iffy with me...

I do agree with the idea of someone being kicked out for picking the theme. However, I do find it a tad unfair that someone should also pick a theme. What if the theme isn't good, and what if they pick a theme and we don't end up using it?

Just stuff to think about.

Does anyone have any other specific format suggestions?

Rules and deadlines would be listed in the OP of course.

Size Requirements: Minimum 250 x 100, Maximum 375 x 175. Do you guys think the size limits should be a little different?

One entry per person.

You can only vote once, of course. Monthly contest sounds good until activity picks up somewhat (hopefully ).

Size is my only problem. Maximum of 375 x 175 seems kind of low. Maybe 400 x 125...?

Other than that, I agree with what you've said.

EDIT: Ninja'd. Read my post about the anonymous stuff.

 

[SuSa]

Again, anonymous stuff would work better if our community was a bit larger. Currently though, if a friend really wanted to vote for a friend they'd just PM them/AIM them/contact the and ask which one is theirs. =\ Just makes unneeded work happen for the pollmaker.

Sadly, that's how themes have to work. Someone has to pick them (voting is inefficient as hell... trust me, I've tried it) - and everything is possible to use. Most people understand "broad is good", if you can't think of a theme - usually just a random word could be used as a theme.

Example:

Random
Heavenly
Sinister
Winter/Cool
Suspense

Also again with sizes...I wouldn't really participate if I can't even use my default size of 400x185 at least... I'm not comfortable with working smaller at all... Renders look bad, the focal point looks forced, light sources are harder to make exact, and it reminds me more of a banner if it's a signature like your current one. Too wide IMO :s.

EDIT:
Wow. I typed 450x185 both times.... my personal default is 400x185 and I trim off excess if needed or resize to fit a request. XD [woops]

Although I've worked with things as large as 500x200, which IMO still look nice and make good signatures.

Also what about vertical signatures? :s [85x650 for example]

 

[Yink]

Again, anonymous stuff would work better if our community was a bit larger. Currently though, if a friend really wanted to vote for a friend they'd just PM them/AIM them/contact the and ask which one is theirs. =\ Just makes unneeded work happen for the pollmaker.

At the very least, make it so that people PM the person (I assume it's Neon) with every signature before-hand. (Yes it's more work, but it's really not that much work...) That way it's still partially anonymous for a time, then yeah you can see who made what sig when the topic is made. I mean really, have you seem how some SOTWs work X_X?

I think the saddest one I've seen was on one site I used to frequent. One person posted an astounding signature, and because of that people felt discouraged and hardly anyone entered OR it could have made people feel intimidated.

Try to think about it that way. I'm just trying to think of ways to make the judging more fair.

As for sizes it's still whoever's running this's call. I think 500 x 200 is stretching it a bit size-wise but it's not a bad size. We should all learn to use varied sizes.

EDIT: Sorry for messing up your color, just gonna take that out now. *yoinks*

 

[SuSa]

You aren't understanding the PM problem. =\

You're saying it's for the anonymous entries, but before Friend A votes - they can messaged Entrant C and ask which one is theres. This completely ruins the point of keeping the signatures anonymous, and creates unneeded work on the pollmaker.

I've seen how some SOTW's work, I've ran graphics forums, and I've even coded a few SOTW mods using javascript/html for forums. My point is is anonymous voting doesn't actually work because of the PM system - or even just contacting them offsite (EG: AIM, MSN)

I do understand entries not being shown until people enter, but that wasn't the reason you gave. So I will agree with you on that. I've encountered that same problem on Final Chaos; our admin CCJ who's **** amazing made a breathetaking sig and nobody bothered to enter because nobody thought they'd beat him. (Final Chaos is now down because iPBFree went down the drain for unknown issues =\)

500x200 is a higher end, but most every signature artist I've worked with used sizes from 300x125 to 450x185. This is just from my experiences across multiple (30~+) graphic forums over the past 4 years. I personally see anything over 600 width as a large art and anything under 80 height is a userbar. I'm all for varying sizes a bit, but I'd refuse to work with anything shorter than 150px in height. Simply refuse. I don't mind so much with the width, but height is a very important factor to me. I feel anything shorter does not give adequate measurements for renders to properly fit, or to create much of a focus point (think rule of thirds). When you spread out the points so close together by squishing the height down, it looks horrible to me. Long, skinny signatures should be vertical - not horzintal.

But that's purely personal preference. Although I still stand by refusing to work with anything shorter than 150px. It's like telling someone who draw on 8 and 1/2x11 cpu sheets of paper to try and draw the same thing, but on a sticky note. It's just not going to happen. [Oddly enough, my cousin refuses to draw on anything smaller than half a sheet of standard computer paper....]

EDIT
Tl;dr
Feel free to host it with whatever sizes, but if it's not something I'm comfortable with working with. I'm not going to participate. :x I don't do short works.

 

[Yink]

You aren't understanding the PM problem. =\

You're saying it's for the anonymous entries, but before Friend A votes - they can messaged Entrant C and ask which one is theres. This completely ruins the point of keeping the signatures anonymous, and creates unneeded work on the pollmaker.

Look.

I know what the PM problem is. You don't have to say I don't, I get it SuSa. It's going to work like that either way in any SOTW/SOTM I've ever seen or participated in. All I was saying, is it at least makes it a LITTLE more fair. I'm trying to get people to think outside the box is all.

I do understand entries not being shown until people enter, but that wasn't the reason you gave. So I will agree with you on that. I've encountered that same problem on Final Chaos; our admin CCJ who's **** amazing made a breathetaking sig and nobody bothered to enter because nobody thought they'd beat him. (Final Chaos is now down because iPBFree went down the drain for unknown issues =\)

Which is why I made a compromise. See? I'm glad you agreed to it. That's why I said "at least".

500x200 is a higher end, but most every signature artist I've worked with used sizes from 300x125 to 450x185. This is just from my experiences across multiple (30~+) graphic forums over the past 4 years. I personally see anything over 600 width as a large art and anything under 80 height is a userbar.

Once again, it really is the community's choice. I'd agree with if it gets larger than 600 it's moving onto LP work (with the exception of pop-out sigs).

:/ EDIT: What? Just try to work with a different size..? Don't be so picky . We can all experiment can't we? Also...did you mean "Freestyle" instead of "Random"? That just confused me a little.

Alright, sorry if this sounded like arguing, I'm done haha.

TL;DR

-Sig size is optional and people shoudl be encouraged to work with different sizes
-If not anonymous, at least make it so the entries are laid out the DAY of the voting, and no sooner
-Pick good themes

 

[Neon Ness]

@ SuSa: I don't get where this "unneeded work" on the pollmaker is coming from? What unneeded work?

I doubt the PMing a friend thing will really be that common. Even if it is, is it really 'unfair' if everyone has the ability to do that?

Also, you've mentioned 3 times that you like to work with 400 x 185 but... we have to consider other people's size ideas as well. If it really bothers you that much, we won't hold it against you for not entering. But I also think it's important to try to learn different canvas sizes outside your comfort zone.

 

[SuSa]

*removes entire post but most recent edit*

EDIT3:
Yink's tl;dr in the last post. I agree with it.

 

[Wretched]

No, friends telling eachother to vote is stupid. This is a friendly contest, and if people really feel inclined to somehow gain an advantage without truly having someone's approval, then they shouldn't even be entering.
Sizes should even be an issue. I understand that we don't want LPs but I think we should just do 300 x 100 to 500 x 200.
A large sig can often hold the most content, and attract the most attention, but most of the time, they lack focal points and are cluttered. Small sigs allow subtleties to take over. Focal points are much easier to establish. Lighting is always better in smaller sigs, etc..
I don't really think it should be an issue
ALSO, if we do themes we should have a vote on the themes.
ALSO, I would feel more comfortable if we did anonymity. I can't help if I notice the nice things about my friends' sigs moreso than others.

 

[Neon Ness]

Nice, thanks for the input Wretched.

I'm not sold on the whole voting for themes though. I was hoping to have a main SOTM thread that indexed all of the individual contest threads. It would also serve as a hall of fame, and a place for us to discuss the next theme.

The thing is, if we made that into a poll, I would have to make a new thread each time. vBulletin polls can't be reset (like resetting the votes and everything) in a thread, so I'd have to keep making a new index/hall of fame each month to vote on a theme, as well as a new contest thread each month, which just sounds messy and unorganized.

Side note: How should we divide up the voting period and submissions period? I was thinking, since these are monthly, 3 weeks for submissions, last week is for voting. But I've never done this before so if there's a better way, please tell me lol. Maybe 2 and 2 is better.

I think we should try to list a few ideas in the main thread each month and maturely try to come to a decision on the best or at least 2 best ideas, from which the new theme will be chosen based on what everyone wants to go with.

With all that said, I wanted to start the 1st SOTM on or around Nov. 1st so we should start deciding on themes now.

The theme should be something somewhat open-ended so every submission becomes a personal interpretation of the theme. So like "Mario Bros." probably wouldn't be as good as something like "Abstraction". But we just need ideas for now.

Personally, I really wanted to do the theme "Danger" for some reason. I thought it might be cool to start off sort of simple. Everyone feel free to pitch new ideas, or tell me if my idea is horrible, or anything lol.

 

[Black Waltz]

lol gl with this guys.

 

[Neon Ness]

lol gl with this guys.

You don't sound very confident in this

Thought it would get a lot more attention, guess not though. /; Maybe it wasn't meant to be.

 

[SuSa]

There are two sig shops open, and probably only a few others who make sigs...what did you expect? :urgh:

Kind of wish our community was larger, you'd think there would be more artists on SWF (Although there are sooo many better forums for people who are interested in art and such.. :x)

:leek:

 

[Neon Ness]

Not sure what I expected

There are also so many better forums for people who are interested in writing, debating, and Pokemon lol. Reason we like it here though is because we like the people here.

There may be more artists on SWF. But we've had people come in here who've been on this site for years and say they never knew the AE existed. Guess it doesn't help being on the bottom of the page.

I could always advertise this thread in my sig, but I've found in the past that it usually doesn't help that much. Maybe the only way to get more attention is to just try to hold one in November, and see if people get interested seeing a SOTM in action. I dunno.