Social Sora Unlocks the Door! The Sora Social Thread

[Fire Tactician]

A better argument could have been that Final Fantasy revitalized the RPG genre from a Nintendo system for the first six games of its series. Cloud, in particular, didn't have the storied past, but he was the most iconic representative of a series that did have a storied past.

 

[Blackwolf666]

A better argument could have been that Final Fantasy revitalized the RPG genre from a Nintendo system for the first six games of its series. Cloud, in particular, didn't have the storied past, but he was the most iconic representative of a series that did have a storied past.

Solid argument. Only possible thing I can do to argue against that is say another prominent figure like Moogle could have gotten in but let’s face it it wouldn’t be as great as a protagonist.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Smash itself has tons of Nintendo history to look at.

3rd parties are unrelated to that.

I'm not sure why this is such a big deal to begin with. 3rd parties are not Nintendo characters. They're guests and are added for who they are, not because of their Nintendo history. Literally the only character who was added that could even attributed for Nintendo reasons at best is Bayonetta. Geno can't even boast that, as he'd be getting in due to his huge popularity. 3rd parties have actually gotten in by popularity, being asked for by their IP owner(or something similar), or because of being gaming icons. Bayonetta's an exception possibly(as we don't know why she got in. Now that we know that her character data was available 2 weeks after the ballot, which is not enough time to remotely get that far on it while also getting that licensing), we can't even say she got in due to the ballot(which is popularity). There's possibilities like her first being an AT, but some votes came in on the ballot and her data was moved over to the character section(and no actual extra work was done. She was already in the game under this scenario. Just not a character. Yet).

Sakurai chose Cloud because he is the biggest rpg protagonist in gaming history. Sakurai's actual criteria is "must have gaming history". He's also said "it'd be something like a courtesy if they had a Nintendo appearance." There is literally no reason to believe Nintendo history is a key factor in choosing guest characters. Of course, it doesn't mean it can never help. It obviously can be very useful. Whether it'd be to easily make the character likable by the fanbase(as too many believe the series is somehow still "Nintendo All-Stars" which couldn't be further from the truth. It almost was irrelevant as of Melee, where Snake and Sonic were asked to be added, and would've gotten in if it wasn't for Melee's development being too far in. They had a major deadline to meet, the premiere of the GameCube. If Sakurai could've delayed it for them and to polish up the game, etc., he would've. This is also why it helps that every Smash game since then doesn't have to worry about being a premiere title at all. It gives him more time and less stress), or just because getting the companies to work together again is easier than if they never teamed up with their IP's/licenses before. That matters.

 

[Blackwolf666]

I’ll say this... gotta disagree with how it’s being viewed as video games greatest icons when it’s mostly Nintendo icons and only officially available on Nintendo consoles. When it becomes officially available to other console families ill view it as video game all stars and welcome Kratos, Sly cooper, Nathan Drake, Commander Shepherd and Master chief with open arms.

Currently, I view it as the biggest celebration of Nintendo’s history of gaming which includes the third parties. Whether it was intentional or not all the 3rd parties have history with Nintendo even though some reach more than others.

Note: I’m a bit surprised about the general view on this topic though.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Third parties are gaming icons(Bayonetta aside). Hell, the only 3rd party character we might ever get that is obscure is Geno. Bayonetta's not actually obscure either. But she's not a gaming icon either.

Nintendo characters are Nintendo icons and various NIntendo all-stars and even some obscure ones.

They do not correlate at all. Consider the fact that Sakurai has never mentioned one time that he chose a character due to their Nintendo history, but their gaming history or popularity instead. He was already good with Sonic getting in before he had a single Nintendo appearance. He just didn't have the development time for it. As soon as Brawl's work started, the next game, he immediately went after Sonic because of his major gaming status. Pac-Man was outright suggested by Miyamoto, but also was chosen due to his gaming icon status. Both of these are deliberate.

His literal response to choosing some Nintendo icon from FF over Cloud was "forget about console wars". It's evident he isn't looking for Nintendo-related 3rd parties. Those are coincidences and at best only one exception may exist(and we don't know the details behind Bayonetta's inclusion beyond her being worked on before the ballot got far in. She had to have had work done on her before it even started. That's key. That means there's more to it than the ballot alone. But until we have real information, there's no use in pretending the Nintendo ties were relevant). There has never been a single official case of where the Nintendo ties actually got a single character in specifically. Why are people pretending they matter when there's zero evidence to support that? A better way to put it is to get out of the Nintendo bubble and look at the bigger picture. 3rd parties are gaming icons first and foremost. If exceptions exist, it'll be because of the ballot or a reason we don't know. And there's no use in just assuming the reason is "Nintendo ties" when it's unfounded. We can't even cite a character who got in due to that, even if it's a likely reason for Bayonetta. But likely isn't proof. It's just a guess that cannot be backed up with evidence.

If it wasn't clear outright that Cloud was chosen entirely due to his gaming history and because FF is a juggernaut of a series(Sakurai never mentioned he wanted a FF character because it was on Nintendo, but because the series was important to gaming instead), Cloud is 100% based upon non-Nintendo appearances. He's intentionally the opposite of every Nintendo appearance. Meaning it clearly held zero importance. Especially since Sakurai never had a case where Cloud being on a Nintendo system mattered in choosing him. Let's remember that the situation didn't come up. He was asked about it, and all he gave was a "I dunno what I would've done", basically. Which is a very clear interpretation of his actual statement in context. Can't know if it never happened. But the reality is, he had a huge character that he was interested in having in because he was the biggest rpg protagonist of all time. The only actual thing he noted that was important, besides being an FF character(who he wanted in general due to the series having a ton of gaming history). The chances of him not wanting Cloud if he had zero Nintendo appearances is extremely slim. The worst that would've happened is SE saying no because Nintendo and SE never agreed on how to represent Cloud among any Nintendo appearances(basically, if the companies don't want to work together, that actually would've stopped Cloud from getting in. A real reason that holds any weight. Not a fan-rule).

 

[Blackwolf666]

For my last comment I was trying to say that even if it's not sakurai's intention the entire roster history can be viewed as a tribute to Nintendo's history due to the series that each character represents have been part of Nintendo's history. I got what you were saying that when it comes to picking characters it has no influence, but so far... they've all led back to Nintendo in one shape or form even if it's small. Also something to note about my view on Sonic... saw him as part of Nintendo's history even before he made it to a nintendo console... an exception I made a long time ago due to the strong rivalry between Mario and Sonic in the early years, but that is about to be a moot point.

You granted me new insight into the decision for Cloud. I thank you for that. I have something to wrap my head around besides Cloud being an obscure choice to represent FF as a whole or any FF at all. Cloud was chosen because he's Cloud the character that Sakurai wanted to throw in there to make his game more memorable and ridiculous (I mean this in a good way) . It's true that the series is still first and foremost Nintendo but the imagination of Sakurai cannot be contained by just Nintendo. Sakurai just wants to craft a perfectly chaotic game that will never cease to wow his fans and for that he works himself half to death.

 

[Double0Groove]

Hey guys! Apparently nobody's keeping tabs with current events here! Get with the times people, we just got some cool news!

Over the past week we've gotten 2 polls (one tourney and one popularity), and in both of them, Sora made the top 5:

&

Sora's alot more popular than I gave him credit for! But yeah, with 2 American polls ranking him this high, and an Italian poll ranking him at first, I have good feeling that this will be good enough to show Disney that KH fans REALLY want this!

 

[Luigifan18]

And apparently, a lot of Sora fans are... unpleasant people...

 

[Double0Groove]

And apparently, a lot of Sora fans are... unpleasant people...

Ouch dude...

 

[fogbadge]

Hey guys! Apparently nobody's keeping tabs with current events here! Get with the times people, we just got some cool news!

Over the past week we've gotten 2 polls (one tourney and one popularity), and in both of them, Sora made the top 5:
View attachment 168176

&

View attachment 168178
Sora's alot more popular than I gave him credit for! But yeah, with 2 American polls ranking him this high, and an Italian poll ranking him at first, I have good feeling that this will be good enough to show Disney that KH fans REALLY want this!

well its good to see sora doing well, but it also saddens me that other 3rd party characters are doing well

 

[CloudedSun]

Sora has the obvious obstacles to climb (Shantae and Bandanna Dee included) but I actually have a good feeling he'll make an appearance in Ultimate.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

well its good to see sora doing well, but it also saddens me that other 3rd party characters are doing well

Why would that sadden you????

 

[fogbadge]

Why would that sadden you????

cause i dont like crash and spyro

 

[CloudedSun]

Hmmm you know, we haven't really talked about how Roxas would work as an echo.

What would change?

 

[HyruleHero]

Hmmm you know, we haven't really talked about how Roxas would work as an echo.

What would change?

Sora could have a sweet spot in the tip of his key blade Roxas wouldn't
It would be something simple like that (maybe a different key blade)

 

[fogbadge]

Hmmm you know, we haven't really talked about how Roxas would work as an echo.

What would change?

well i imagine the specials would be some what different or it could simply be aesthetic as it seems to be with daisy and ritcher

 

[Luigifan18]

Ouch dude...

Well, that's what the stats say.

 

[Double0Groove]

Well, that's what the stats say.

Omg, that's a real problem. Sometimes it feels like our community goes out of its way to make sure that people hate either the franchise or Sora entering Smash bros.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Omg, that's a real problem. Sometimes it feels like our community goes out of its way to make sure that people hate either the franchise or Sora entering Smash bros.

We definitely need better PR.

 

[Luigifan18]

We definitely need better PR.

And a way to rein in the assholes.

 

[Blackwolf666]

Hmmm you know, we haven't really talked about how Roxas would work as an echo.

What would change?

Personally, I still say that Riku should be Sora's echo but if Roxas was I'd say first we need some tiny touches in animation like when Sora runs his keyblade is resting on his shoulder and while Roxas runs he keeps it at his side. Also it wouldn't feel like Roxas if he didn't have at least a couple moves that worked Oathkeeper+Oblivion combo in there somehow. I recommend a change to his jab like Sora does the standard 3 hit combo while Roxas whips out his dual-wield blades and does a standing continuous assault after 2 steps. One other thing is if Sora has strike raid; Roxas throws 2 keyblades that do less damage than Sora's.

 

[CloudedSun]

Personally, I still say that Riku should be Sora's echo but if Roxas was I'd say first we need some tiny touches in animation like when Sora runs his keyblade is resting on his shoulder and while Roxas runs he keeps it at his side. Also it wouldn't feel like Roxas if he didn't have at least a couple moves that worked Oathkeeper+Oblivion combo in there somehow. I recommend a change to his jab like Sora does the standard 3 hit combo while Roxas whips out his dual-wield blades and does a standing continuous assault after 2 steps. One other thing is if Sora has strike raid; Roxas throws 2 keyblades that do less damage than Sora's.

Why Riku as an echo fighter?

Riku's physical build (what kept Isabelle from being a Villager echo) and fighting style are both pretty different from Sora's. I think if Riku were to be in, he'd have to be his own character because there's so much unique, especially his use of Dark powers as opposed to Sora (his command deck even in Dream Drop Distance was a lot different from Sora's, not to mention his Spirit Links).

Roxas on the other hand went through most of KH2 and KH358/2 Days wielding just like Sora. Even his limit in the latter game looks a lot like Ars Arcanum. Yes he dual weilds for three scenes (Roxas Vs. Axel, Riku, and Sora), but that can be translated easily to a Final Smash. Also, lest we forget Sora dual weilds as well in KH2, so it wouldn't necessarily be a problem if there was a dual wielding aspect (Likely not). In addition, Roxas' build is nearly the same as KH2/3 Sora's. I would think if Roxas doesn't feel right without dual weilding, Riku would feel even stranger with crouching down like Sora or 2 handed Keyblade attacks.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Imo for a Roxas echo Oathkeeper and Oblivion would be his final smash for a limit break. But yeah he would be the best choice for a sora echo.

As for PR stuff, yeah our hurdle is mainly some stigma around Sora and KH. People are quite divided on KH outside of the fandom, with jabs at the story or the writing being common. It also does not help that Geno support is as high as it is because we are seen as a threat. Granted Geno is controversial as well, but with how messy Sora’s rights are, it is a turnoff.

 

[Blackwolf666]

Why Riku as an echo fighter?

Riku's physical build (what kept Isabelle from being a Villager echo) and fighting style are both pretty different from Sora's. I think if Riku were to be in, he'd have to be his own character because there's so much unique, especially his use of Dark powers as opposed to Sora (his command deck even in Dream Drop Distance was a lot different from Sora's, not to mention his Spirit Links).

Roxas on the other hand went through most of KH2 and KH358/2 Days wielding just like Sora. Even his limit in the latter game looks a lot like Ars Arcanum. Yes he dual weilds for three scenes (Roxas Vs. Axel, Riku, and Sora), but that can be translated easily to a Final Smash. Also, lest we forget Sora dual weilds as well in KH2, so it wouldn't necessarily be a problem if there was a dual wielding aspect (Likely not). In addition, Roxas' build is nearly the same as KH2/3 Sora's. I would think if Roxas doesn't feel right without dual weilding, Riku would feel even stranger with crouching down like Sora or 2 handed Keyblade attacks.

Dark Samus proved that echoes don’t have to mimic the stance of the person they are mimicking so no need for Riku to crouch. Short answer for why I want riku, sure he has darkness but that’s more associated with his past than present self. Very few attacks he’s had from that time carried over to the present. Off the top of my head Dark firaga which can be a fancier looking fire spell with low level tracking and dark shield as reflect. Also I feel like the best echo so far is Dark Samus for putting a bit of a dark spin on Samus’s Attacks. Yes, sora and Riku have different attacks but they also share many of the same attacks and can work as an echo or semiclone. In hindsight maybe a semiclone would be better.


Dual wielding is more closely associated with Roxas than Sora. That is why I brought it up when you were questioning what some differences could be between the two. Also I feel like you’re making that out to be something I was complaining about like a counter to him being an echo... it wasn’t just a little brain storming.

 

[Double0Groove]

GUYS!!! Guys! I just came across a video that actually gave me hope that Sora could pop up in the main game! It has alot of well thought out and very valid points and to top it off, it's even got some VERY solid facts that even I didn't know about, and I did some really heavy research too! I'm losing it here, so while I go look for reasons to be pessimistic again, watch this video and commit most of everything this guy says to memory.
https://youtu.be/rnm-1WcaIy0
Oh, and be respectful to the Geno fans guys. There's still a good chance that Geno could get in. Plus, Sora's not a SE character anyway, so there's no reason to be so hostile towards them.

 

[Robertman2]

Count me in. My guts says that Sora is the SE character Vergeben is hush hush about, especially after the comments about Geno, and I'd much rather have Sora than a literal nobody like Geno

 

[CloudedSun]

Count me in. My guts says that Sora is the SE character Vergeben is hush hush about, especially after the comments about Geno, and I'd much rather have Sora than a literal nobody like Geno

Again let's be mindful to respect other fanbases regardless. You never know who could get in (guaranteed NO ONE originally wanted or expected Wii Fit Trainer).

 

[Mr Gentleman]

Count me in. My guts says that Sora is the SE character Vergeben is hush hush about, especially after the comments about Geno, and I'd much rather have Sora than a literal nobody like Geno

popping in as a Geno fan seeing things like this and I'm just like "I mean, it's to be expected honestly

Oh, and be respectful to the Geno fans guys. There's still a good chance that Geno could get in. Plus, Sora's not a SE character anyway, so there's no reason to be so hostile towards them.

Again let's be mindful to respect other fanbases regardless. You never know who could get in (guaranteed NO ONE originally wanted or expected Wii Fit Trainer).

but then comments like these turn it around like "these guys are chill and I appreciate that"

I feel like I'm in the oddest place being both a Big Geno fan. and a big Sora fan. with the SE vergeben leak the only real realistic options are either Geno or Sora. hense why these two fanbases are kinda butting heads. but no matter which one of them does get in I'm still getting one of my most wanted characters in. unless it's actually something absurd like a DQ character or Lara Croft and then I'd be disappointed twice over!

 

[zabimaru1000]

popping in as a Geno fan seeing things like this and I'm just like "I mean, it's to be expected honestly




but then comments like these turn it around like "these guys are chill and I appreciate that"

I feel like I'm in the oddest place being both a Big Geno fan. and a big Sora fan. with the SE vergeben leak the only real realistic options are either Geno or Sora. hense why these two fanbases are kinda butting heads. but no matter which one of them does get in I'm still getting one of my most wanted characters in. unless it's actually something absurd like a DQ character or Lara Croft and then I'd be disappointed twice over!

I'm also a supporter of both, more so Sora than Geno. But realistically speaking, Sora being the rumored SE rep would be a reach.

I've said quite a few times his only shot is through DLC. And Geno very likely fits the SE spot.
If not him then it has to be something from Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Bravely Default, or Tomb Raider.

 

[Robertman2]

I doubt it's a DQ rep, since the rights to that are apparently a complete mess.

 

[Craft_Mesa]

Well, that's what the stats say.

"Welp I know which fandom I'm mocking from now on. Disney spinoff boy is never getting into Smash."

This line pisses me off on a personal level.

and I don't exactly get that pissed off easily.

 

[Robertman2]

Smash Faqs is a pretty trash tier site

 

[fogbadge]

and I don't exactly get that pissed off easily.

lucky you i get pissed off all the time




though i am scotish

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Aaronitmar put up a "Sora for Smash" video today. Pretty compelling arguments. I want to mention one little accessory that would speak volumes though, and if Sora gets in I hope they don't have to take it out. That's the Mickey Mouse keychain at the end of the Keyblade.

I think something small like that would be the perfect shout-out to the impact licensed games have on Nintendo systems. We're never going to get a fighter like Goku, but some of the most iconic games on Nintendo systems have been based off other licenses. Can you imagine the N64 without Goldeneye for example? Disney in particular would be perfect because of Nintendo's history with that company specifically, from playing cards, to Game and Watch games, to the Capcom platformers, to modern stuff like Disney Infinity and of course Kingdom Hearts. It would be neat to see the whole thing come full circle and for such an important part of gaming history to get something more than just Hamtaro in the Chronicle.

 

[Robertman2]

Pretty sure Brawl had some Disney games mentioned in the Chronicle

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Fair enough; I was just using Hamtaro as an example.

If I'm not mistaken, Kobe Bryant and Ken Griffey Jr. are in there too :O

 

[Robertman2]

KOBE FOR SMASH WEN

 

[Altais]

GUYS!!! Guys! I just came across a video that actually gave me hope that Sora could pop up in the main game! It has alot of well thought out and very valid points and to top it off, it's even got some VERY solid facts that even I didn't know about, and I did some really heavy research too! I'm losing it here, so while I go look for reasons to be pessimistic again, watch this video and commit most of everything this guy says to memory.
https://youtu.be/rnm-1WcaIy0
Oh, and be respectful to the Geno fans guys. There's still a good chance that Geno could get in. Plus, Sora's not a SE character anyway, so there's no reason to be so hostile towards them.

Added to OP.

 

[Double0Groove]

Aaronitmar put up a "Sora for Smash" video today. Pretty compelling arguments. I want to mention one little accessory that would speak volumes though, and if Sora gets in I hope they don't have to take it out. That's the Mickey Mouse keychain at the end of the Keyblade.

I think something small like that would be the perfect shout-out to the impact licensed games have on Nintendo systems. We're never going to get a fighter like Goku, but some of the most iconic games on Nintendo systems have been based off other licenses. Can you imagine the N64 without Goldeneye for example? Disney in particular would be perfect because of Nintendo's history with that company specifically, from playing cards, to Game and Watch games, to the Capcom platformers, to modern stuff like Disney Infinity and of course Kingdom Hearts. It would be neat to see the whole thing come full circle and for such an important part of gaming history to get something more than just Hamtaro in the Chronicle.

Care to bring us a link?

 

[HyruleHero]

Care to bring us a link?

Video Link to requested video by Aaronitmar
I believe this is the video in question.