Sonic 3.5 Discussion Likes/Dislikes/Combo Strats!

[satanstoenail]

Hey Everyone! Im Satanstoenails! Im new to SmashBoards! I think we should have a talk on sonics changes,combos,likes, and dislikes in 3.5. Lets get this thread going!

 

[GabPR]

First and most obvious change is his recovery. Now that you cant double jump cancel side b and homing attack wiithout target gets you in free fall, Sonic's best options for recovering are centered around spinshot (which its distance was shortened) up b (which you now have to wait a bit more to be able to attack out of it) and side b on the ledge (which if opponent grabs, and your in a stage without walls like lets say... lylat.) you fall into your death. Sounds bad on paper, but surprisingly Sonic has still one of the best recoveries in the game in this version, Considering everyone else's recovery was nerfed too.

Sonic is no longer centralized around his down b (which for the general health of the game is a good thing) but players who over centralized their playstyles around this move will need to get used to it. Side b out of the ledge is less effective since you cannot attack immediately out of it, so it is not as safe. But while playing I discovered that now it has gimp And kill potential when you use it to grab the ledge and you hit someone, especially tether characters (this might hint that the aerial version can now be used more ways offensively, so a lot of experimenting is needed) To compensate for homing attacks great risks, it is now much more rewarding to hit one as it has better kill potential (Note, you do not have to HIT an opponent for you to avoid going into special fall, homing just needs to detect a target, if you however hit a wall, I believe it THEN will go into special fall, correct me if I am wrong)

Oh up air... we will miss you so. The nerfs on up air are devastating. While still useful, you cant expect to reach people like you used to in 3.0. Not only on the second hit, but the first hit also has less range. I have not sat down and experimented with it, but I believe its one of the things that Sonic was most hurt it terms of combo potential.

His tilts are still good, u-tilt and f-tilt range reduction is not that damaging or significant. You can still combo well out of up tilt and, while not as effectively as 3.0, he can still gimp some characters with an angled f-tilt on the ledge.

Finally using his up b to get out of pressure or combos is not as good as before since it has more start up and dair has been made slower, making it easier to react to and punish.

In my Conclusion Sonic is still playable and still has a lot of great tools to do well against the rest of the cast, and now needs to be less centralized around his b moves to do well. While he lost a lot of killing options like up air and his homing attack is less safe, he still has really good combo and kill potential with his tilts and aerials . And, even though they are more risky to use, he surprisingly may have a lot of hidden potential in the ways his new aerial side b and homing work in terms of kill potential.

 

[Vultron]

If homing attack hits a wall, you do not go into special fall.

 

[GabPR]

If homing attack hits a wall, you do not go into special fall.

This is only true when homing attack has a target correct? Up till now I can no longer use homing on a ceiling and a wall without going into special fall, but maybe that is because there was no target.

 

[Vultron]

This is only true when homing attack has a target correct? Up till now I can no longer use homing on a ceiling and a wall without going into special fall, but maybe that is because there was no target.

I just did it on Green Hill Zone, the other fighter was across the stage, and I was able to double jump > Spring back to the ledge.

 

[GabPR]

I will have to test it again once I get the chance then

 

[CryoGX]

At first, I didn't really like this change, and thought I was pretty much screwed. (Somewhat like the Sonic fanbase whenever it sees a slight difference in a new game, amirite? )

Anyway, I've said before that I viewed this nerf as a challenge to relearn and get good with a nerfed Sonic, as to truly strike some fear into people >:D

I've managed to do some training with Sonic, mainly against CPUs, but some friends on my hall, as well, and I've got to say that I've learned a crapton more that I can do with him thanks to these nerfs, and my moveset is far more diversified than it was with 3.02 Sonic. This is just after like a day of significant training.

One of my sarcastic friends told me for a long time "maybe you should stop using the B button", whenever I'd play Sonic; now I can actually take his "advice" even though it was just sarcasm. The increased risk of-- dare I say-- slowing down and getting in close with your A moves much more often is actually pretty fun, and I'm actually having more fun with this version of Sonic as it's making me think that much faster, despite not spinning across the screen as much. Kills feel more rewarding, as my combo game is getting better as I focus a lot more on most if not all of my moves that aren't used via the B button. I actually think I'm playing nerfed Sonic better than I played him before 3.5.

I also view the slowing of dair as the introduction of a second effective down-spike. While the attack was always able to spike, using it off of the map could kill you much easier than it can now. Slowing it down a bit allows me to better execute down spikes like I do in Sm4sh, and it's freaking great as, again, it's another down spike. >:D

TL;DR: This nerf forces me to play differently with Sonic, but that's not necessarily a bad thing; I'm having more fun with Sonic than I had before, and I may even be better with him this version compared to last version.

Sonic's worth relearning if you mained him before now; I wouldn't recommend giving up on him unless you're one of those types who play what feels the best to you at the time.

Also, correct me if I've got something wrong, but HA/BA only goes into helpless state if you BOTH target nothing and hit nothing, so it seems. A wall/floor counts as hitting something, and you go into into this rolling fall after bouncing off the surface, which is really punishable, but allows you to get out of it if you fall long enough, aka are falling off of the stage. If you hit a floor or low wall while onstage, the fall is likely going to last too long to do anything out of before you hit the ground.

 

[Solharath]

I find myself pressing B a lot more. WD out of SideB and on-stage homing attack are all fairly buffed(I think the changes have Sonic flying even further away when he connects with a shield now, so it feels safer), so that's pretty nice.

His UpB nerf just really messes with timing more, and I'll never quite get over how poorly managed the uair active hitbox nerf was.

 

[The_Sir_Reginald]

Yeah, keeping a constant mixup of wavedash out of side b (whether toward or away from them) mixed with jc grab out of side b and then just homerun slide, we should still be able to be unpredicatable as sonic. Short hop reverse spinshot is also a pretty fun thing to throw at opponents as a mixup to shffl'd nairs (it also can combo into fair into nair sometimes and knock them really far away).

And can we talk about debug showing the range of homing attack?!?! How amazing is that!

I have a much harder time getting out of combos now (at least from melee characters who already know their combos) and upb out of shield is more punishable, so I've still got a ways to go.

 

[Gank'd]

Ive been getting combo's involving either boostgrab on the characters it works on or just JC grab when they whiff on me, i usually either uthrow that into uair but that never leads to much so ive been doing dthrow dashing forward and short hop dairing and it USUALLY connects before the getup frames if they missed there tech or if they teched it always connects unless they tech rolled away in which case ill go for a fair since it spaces better and can lead to a longer combo if i get the meteor bounce

The mid percents for me usually consist alot of just sh dair dashing in the direction its gonna send them and just tech chasing with another dair untill they are off stage and then either going for the meteor, a bair or a dair spike if there at that perfect height to get it

 

[GabPR]

So i was seeing a 3.5 impresion video and the guy is testing out somethings vs a sonic cpu, when all of a suddenly it does something similar to a sonic 3 combo, take a look https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vatmrv5M4II#t=350

 

[Vultron]

GabPR , the Sonic 3 combo returns after an X amount of percent on every character, I made a rough estimate of it earlier today.

 

[satanstoenail]

this is some really useful stuff. i was actually playing while i was reading this stuff lol. so i havent got it quite down yet, but i learned that if you down b, hit the opponent and quickly jump and nair it will land the hit most of the time... im not sure if i was inputing to late but when i did it he kinda felt like his old self again. gotta make it consistent though.

 

[Vultron]

this is some really useful stuff. i was actually playing while i was reading this stuff lol. so i havent got it quite down yet, but i learned that if you down b, hit the opponent and quickly jump and nair it will land the hit most of the time... im not sure if i was inputing to late but when i did it he kinda felt like his old self again. gotta make it consistent though.

Yeah, hitting it is a little tricky now, but still possible! When PMDT tries to take away a few of the better cards in our hand, we will always find an extra or two up our sleeves.

 

[satanstoenail]

my buddy plays G&W and i wasnt hitting it like i wanted to. he also plays bowser in which i hit it almost every time i tried it. so size defiantly has something to do with it (obviously)

 

[Vultron]

my buddy plays G&W and i wasnt hitting it like i wanted to. he also plays bowser in which i hit it almost every time i tried it. so size defiantly has something to do with it (obviously)

Well Bowser's size, weight, and fall speed just make him cannon fodder. With GnW, his attacks usually have a lingering hitbox. As long as you can avoid that, you are free to show him a taste of the 90's.

 

[satanstoenail]

haha! show him a taste of the 90's.... that's to good haha

 

[`dazrin]

Anyone have any good videos of 3.5 sonic yet? I'm still trying to figure things out on my own as i go along. I just do alot of fox things and it seems to work ok lol

 

[satanstoenail]

what i have so far is, spin shot works, use your jumps and up b very carefully, down tilt to up tilt works, gimping with spring i still a thing, side b onto ledge is able to get on faster now, play low level to the ground, nair is still a thing, (spin shot into a nair), bair is still really good, pivot grabs are still really good.

 

[GabPR]

Anyone have any good videos of 3.5 sonic yet? I'm still trying to figure things out on my own as i go along. I just do alot of fox things and it seems to work ok lol

I recently uploaded a few 3.5 Sonic vids in my youtube channel, here is one vs metaknight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84kgiva3acw&list=UUkwrdW6HuuR2TSgJm0QfP1w I sometimes suicide an excesively dash attack, but overall y played decent enough I believe.

 

[leekslap]

I recently uploaded a few 3.5 Sonic vids in my youtube channel, here is one vs metaknight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84kgiva3acw&list=UUkwrdW6HuuR2TSgJm0QfP1w I sometimes suicide an excesively dash attack, but overall y played decent enough I believe.

That Meta Knight sucked, and don't be so humble. You played AMAZING. But seriously it's like that Meta Knight wanted to do the most predictable scrubby Meta Knight things instead of working on a better punish than down tilt to nair or up air chains.

 

[GabPR]

That Meta Knight sucked, and don't be so humble. You played AMAZING. But seriously it's like that Meta Knight wanted to do the most predictable scrubby Meta Knight things instead of working on a better punish than down tilt to nair or up air chains.

In all honesty I consider him a really good player, and in his defense, like me he is adjusting to his new character and his moveset, plus this is not his best set either. Thank you for your comment though ^_^

 

[leekslap]

In all honesty I consider him a really good player, and in his defense, like me he is adjusting to his new character and his moveset, plus this is not his best set either. Thank you for your comment though ^_^

Well maybe I was a bit too honest or mean, but the nerfs are not an excuse for the way he played. That would be something like recovering wrong or overusing IDC, but he just did standard stuff that worked last version. I'll PM you later when me and other Meta Knight authorities such as Lawn Chair, Kappy, and GuruKid are done creating a guide that we will post in the official guide section, so you can show him and see what I'm talking about.

 

[Mejai]

In all honesty I consider him a really good player, and in his defense, like me he is adjusting to his new character and his moveset, plus this is not his best set either. Thank you for your comment though ^_^

I really like your recent videos, they help me learn a lot about sonic.

 

[Imfastsometimes]

First and most obvious change is his recovery. Now that you cant double jump cancel side b and homing attack wiithout target gets you in free fall, Sonic's best options for recovering are centered around spinshot (which its distance was shortened) up b (which you now have to wait a bit more to be able to attack out of it) and side b on the ledge (which if opponent grabs, and your in a stage without walls like lets say... lylat.) you fall into your death. Sounds bad on paper, but surprisingly Sonic has still one of the best recoveries in the game in this version, Considering everyone else's recovery was nerfed too.

Sonic is no longer centralized around his down b (which for the general health of the game is a good thing) but players who over centralized their playstyles around this move will need to get used to it. Side b out of the ledge is less effective since you cannot attack immediately out of it, so it is not as safe. But while playing I discovered that now it has gimp And kill potential when you use it to grab the ledge and you hit someone, especially tether characters (this might hint that the aerial version can now be used more ways offensively, so a lot of experimenting is needed) To compensate for homing attacks great risks, it is now much more rewarding to hit one as it has better kill potential (Note, you do not have to HIT an opponent for you to avoid going into special fall, homing just needs to detect a target, if you however hit a wall, I believe it THEN will go into special fall, correct me if I am wrong)

Oh up air... we will miss you so. The nerfs on up air are devastating. While still useful, you cant expect to reach people like you used to in 3.0. Not only on the second hit, but the first hit also has less range. I have not sat down and experimented with it, but I believe its one of the things that Sonic was most hurt it terms of combo potential.

His tilts are still good, u-tilt and f-tilt range reduction is not that damaging or significant. You can still combo well out of up tilt and, while not as effectively as 3.0, he can still gimp some characters with an angled f-tilt on the ledge.

Finally using his up b to get out of pressure or combos is not as good as before since it has more start up and dair has been made slower, making it easier to react to and punish.

In my Conclusion Sonic is still playable and still has a lot of great tools to do well against the rest of the cast, and now needs to be less centralized around his b moves to do well. While he lost a lot of killing options like up air and his homing attack is less safe, he still has really good combo and kill potential with his tilts and aerials . And, even though they are more risky to use, he surprisingly may have a lot of hidden potential in the ways his new aerial side b and homing work in terms of kill potential.

If homing attack goes into wall you don't go into special fall. However, you will go into a lot more lag and it sends you down much faster, instead of back in 3.02 where sonic would float a bit in the air after hitting the all. Honestly it helps because you still have enough time to throw out an up b and it makes it harder for your opponent to come down and punish, though it still just feels weird

 

[GabPR]

If homing attack goes into wall you don't go into special fall. However, you will go into a lot more lag and it sends you down much faster, instead of back in 3.02 where sonic would float a bit in the air after hitting the all. Honestly it helps because you still have enough time to throw out an up b and it makes it harder for your opponent to come down and punish, though it still just feels weird

Its bad, people are still afraid on coming near sonic after he homes in on a wall because of 3.0. However... once they realize how vulnerable he really is now... that's practically a free edgeguard

 

[KrymsonSkyz]

I recently uploaded a few 3.5 Sonic vids in my youtube channel, here is one vs metaknight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84kgiva3acw&list=UUkwrdW6HuuR2TSgJm0QfP1w I sometimes suicide an excesively dash attack, but overall y played decent enough I believe.

You played well bruh, I enjoyed that match.

 

[GabPR]

You played well bruh, I enjoyed that match.

Thank you for your compliment, I added other videos recently of some of my wifi matches. Sadly both me and my opponent are not able to play their best due some lag, but there is still some interesting stuff. Here is the Link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS2Fzyr4X4E

Aside from that... I have failed to see many Sonic mains make use of his double jab setups, and that strikes me as odd, I encourage any Sonic main to practice these as it makes for free gabs or combo extensions

 

[leekslap]

Aside from that... I have failed to see many Sonic mains make use of his double jab setups, and that strikes me as odd, I encourage any Sonic main to practice these as it makes for free gabs

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/074/461/I-SEE-WHAT-YOU-DID-THERE_HOLY****.jpg

 

[RedLabel]

My thought's on the changes overall:

UTilt and Ftilt are still relevant. SideB is getting used more and it is truthfully not a bad thing.

As for HA/BA, I would have rather seen a limit of using it once with no target then the freefall thing (which is kind of meeting it half way) as well as shortening the range, but I can understand why it was done. The downB changes were extremely necessary. While I hated them at first, they made me realize that I was just playing poorly, relying on a broken (not overpowered) mechanic, which made me suffer when it came to spacing and skill. Tech now matters a lot more. Previously i truly think that if you were good with down b, even as a subpar player you could be very skilled. Now, tech skill matters much more, as well as skill placement. Good Job PMDT.

-HeAt

 

[GabPR]

Wow, I did not even notice I did that xD

 

[satanstoenail]

i honestly just felt people (including myself) thought sonic was bad because of all the changes. ive been workign on him quite often and to be honest he is still really good. i think the point of the nerfs to him were to keep players from downb and keep them focused on all his other moves. true it makes him more difficult to play because your tactics when you land hits need to be accurate. But i think i like it like that.

 

[GabPR]

i honestly just felt people (including myself) thought sonic was bad because of all the changes. ive been workign on him quite often and to be honest he is still really good. i think the point of the nerfs to him were to keep players from downb and keep them focused on all his other moves. true it makes him more difficult to play because your tactics when you land hits need to be accurate. But i think i like it like that.

Im just really disapointed at the people who make false presumptions on a good character just because he is not a "press 1 button and win" kind of deal. I think patch would have been better off by calling it 3.whine.

 

[JFyst]

I feel that they hit sonic a bit to hard, like sure he was a great character, but there was only one person who used him at that level, Wizzrobe, and he's not playing PM anymore because of 3.5 nerfs. Sonic is amazing but at the level people complained about him, only Wizzrobe played that well.

 

[GabPR]

I feel that they hit sonic a bit to hard, like sure he was a great character, but there was only one person who used him at that level, Wizzrobe, and he's not playing PM anymore because of 3.5 nerfs. Sonic is amazing but at the level people complained about him, only Wizzrobe played that well.

Guess that means we need to practice in order to become the players Sonic deserves.

 

[Solharath]

Guess that means we need to practice in order to become the players Sonic deserves.

Honestly if the best player with the character literally drops the character because of fundamental changes to the character that removes a number of playstyles, we shouldn't be so blindly optimistic that 'He's still good! Seriously look at that top-tier recovery!"

Sonic's recovery is not top tier. It actually amuses me to see this stated repeatedly. Yes, Sonic has the ability to recovery from far away, but with the changes, he has far less utility to him. HA is rendered nigh useless if your opponent knows how to get around it(Literally, the start up is long enough that they can ledge detach>DJ>Airdodge onto the stage for a free kill). And the spring doesn't actually have a sweet-spot - his hangtime at the end of the move has no ledgegrab box, so he's very vulnerable if you want to just grab the edge, and if you choose to wait that long, you're off screen and never 100% sure if you're the right height. I've got it down pretty well, but every so often I undercut the edge, or pop just above it, and almost every character has a low hitting move to kill, or kill-setup on Sonic.

In other words, Sonic is probably one of the easiest to edgeguard. He lacks horizontal control like any of the other light/floaty characters.

And if you attack? You give up the option to grab the ledge thanks to the added cooldown on uair, previously the only move you could throw out to cover your ascent and still be able to grab at the apex of our height(You know, like literally every recovery move(yes, exceptions exist) in the game, except it required precise timing). With his spin moves regulated to having tiny hitboxes inside of his hurtbox, you're looking at hoping your opponent misspaces their attack so signifcantly that they don't even trade.

Sonic is mid-tier at best right now. I shant give him up yet, but his combo game is based on bad/no DI, he has no guaranteed kill setups like the actual top tiers. Honestly, I'm hoping for a couple changes with a bugfix patch for 3.5, and I certainly hope the PMDT realize they have their own game their making here - 'Bcuz melee' seemed to be the focus for this one, and honestly we're trying to like it as much as 3.0(I say we as my scene. Many players in MI are not pleased with the changes as it was its own beast before, but now it's trying too hard to be Melee now).

Either way, I'm not happy with this Sonic, and honestly while he's still better than 2.6 Sonic, that isn't exactly a compliment.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

eh
I mean, every time wizzrobe touches sonic, he gets nerfed. I don't even think its sonic, its wizzrobe. Wizzrobe is to sonic, like aMSa is to yoshi. Wizzrobe was just made for sonic. He probably looks at this like, whats the point, more then, well this style doesn't work. Every time wizzrobe plays sonic, regardless of the nerf, it looks like sonic never changed.

 

[GabPR]

Honestly if the best player with the character literally drops the character because of fundamental changes to the character that removes a number of playstyles, we shouldn't be so blindly optimistic that 'He's still good! Seriously look at that top-tier recovery!"

Sonic's recovery is not top tier. It actually amuses me to see this stated repeatedly. Yes, Sonic has the ability to recovery from far away, but with the changes, he has far less utility to him. HA is rendered nigh useless if your opponent knows how to get around it(Literally, the start up is long enough that they can ledge detach>DJ>Airdodge onto the stage for a free kill). And the spring doesn't actually have a sweet-spot - his hangtime at the end of the move has no ledgegrab box, so he's very vulnerable if you want to just grab the edge, and if you choose to wait that long, you're off screen and never 100% sure if you're the right height. I've got it down pretty well, but every so often I undercut the edge, or pop just above it, and almost every character has a low hitting move to kill, or kill-setup on Sonic.

In other words, Sonic is probably one of the easiest to edgeguard. He lacks horizontal control like any of the other light/floaty characters.

And if you attack? You give up the option to grab the ledge thanks to the added cooldown on uair, previously the only move you could throw out to cover your ascent and still be able to grab at the apex of our height(You know, like literally every recovery move(yes, exceptions exist) in the game, except it required precise timing). With his spin moves regulated to having tiny hitboxes inside of his hurtbox, you're looking at hoping your opponent misspaces their attack so signifcantly that they don't even trade.

Sonic is mid-tier at best right now. I shant give him up yet, but his combo game is based on bad/no DI, he has no guaranteed kill setups like the actual top tiers. Honestly, I'm hoping for a couple changes with a bugfix patch for 3.5, and I certainly hope the PMDT realize they have their own game their making here - 'Bcuz melee' seemed to be the focus for this one, and honestly we're trying to like it as much as 3.0(I say we as my scene. Many players in MI are not pleased with the changes as it was its own beast before, but now it's trying too hard to be Melee now).

Either way, I'm not happy with this Sonic, and honestly while he's still better than 2.6 Sonic, that isn't exactly a compliment.

I guess in a sense your right about being too optimistic. I guess I just like the character too much. What changes would you do to Sonic in a Bug fix then?.

 

[Solharath]

eh
I mean, every time wizzrobe touches sonic, he gets nerfed. I don't even think its sonic, its wizzrobe. Wizzrobe is to sonic, like aMSa is to yoshi. Wizzrobe was just made for sonic. He probably looks at this like, whats the point, more then, well this style doesn't work. Every time wizzrobe plays sonic, regardless of the nerf, it looks like sonic never changed.

I refer to you 'The Fall of Wizzy's Sonic' video, in which Wizzy struggles against opponents and often loses to people he would otherwise destroy - a fact in the same video he demolishes everyone with his Falcon. And to the fact that Wizzy isn't playing 3.5 Sonic.

The PMDT, while I do not care for these changes and see them as a product of a detrimental mindset rather than shortsightedness, are not so ignorant that they based the nerfs on Wizzrobe's play. They based a number of nerfs on toxic Sonic play - an overreliance on spinning moves. The problem that lies there is that other toxic playstyles have been left in because, well, Melee. Look at Stack It Up. Look at Waveshine>Waveshine>Waveshine>USmash. Look at Peach's DSmash. These are horrifyingly bad designs. Someone told me yesterday, "You can escape Stacking with DI". No, you can't, not all the time. If they DI, Falco can chase with a Waveshine and follow the DI, and Rising Dair before the hitstun is over in a variety of percents and characters. It's why Dr. PP is so good because he developed Stacking to such a point that he was rarely missing on good DI. He'd reverse his direction before jumping to mess with DI, as well. Sonic's platform movement was, in essence, a more benign way to style on stage that wasn't over-powered(many projectile character can sit back and wait for Sonic to get close), but put an opponent at a sense of unease.

Sonic doesn't have the priority or disjoint to put a character at unease at medium-high levels of play. This was apparent in 3.0 as even Wizzy's Sonic could not keep pace with the pure intensity of Zero's Fox(which is by and large just a high-tiered aggressive Fox without any bells or whistles to make it a standout in the world of PM or Melee), or deal with Junebug's Diddy at all. His hitboxes are inside of his hurtboxes, his ground moves are slow and his best anti-air - utilt- no longer works for its intended purpose, because it's outright beaten by aerial approaches from the entirety of the Melee Top Tier cast. I'm not blind to the fact Sonic still can outright fight some of them, but he's outmatched to heavily outmatched on stage, and lacks the ability to push many opponents off stage.

If they want to keep Sonic the way he is now, being ultra light but no longer having a recovery that reflects how far he flies at such a low percent, then he needs to have his utilt back, his Uair back, and frames of invincibility returned on his UpB startup. (Frames 3-5 should suffice). Furthermore, a hitbox on his blast attack that isn't so solidly beaten by any panic button in the game(Just make Blast Attack's hitbox overlap his hurtbox, it doesn't even need to be disjointed). And for the love of all that is good and holy, fix up the animation on Dtilt so his foot actually has a hitbox on half of it.

Honestly Falco's Dair needs to have a hitbox on his feet returned to him too, keep the weaker hitbox THERE instead, as he is actively attacking with his feet. Obviously this goes towards Sonic, too, who's dair doesn't make any sense, losing its hitbox on the part of the body that is outstretched to attack, and the leftover hitbox slowly receding up into the hedgehog.

 

[GabPR]

What matchups would you say Sonic gets heavily outmatched?