something i never see marths do

[big sleep]

in one short hop marth can f-air then first hit of forward-b then f-air/u-air/n-air(first hit) all before landing

why don't i see anyone do this?

i don't play marth, but i do this sometimes in friendlies... it's good for pressure, and if you tipper the f-air at certain %s you can link all three in one SH.

 

[Dark Hart]

After first hit nair you can dash away pivot tipper, it's pretty Cam

 

[Ballin]

cause when u see someone in their shield, there's way better things you can do.
after your first fair, unless you happen to be in a really good position, they can usually hit you out of it.
and it's just too much of a gamble. Chances of it hitting are slim.
also, say you hit their shield with the first fair, if you're going to do a side B, what's to stop them from rolling behind and hitting you?
i usually just do a late fair on their shield and dash away and wait for a reaction to punish.

 

[SwiftBass]

I like. will try it

 

[.Chipmunk.]

I thought of this a while ago, and the biggest issue with it is that you lose spacing because of side b. Spacing is far and above better to keep than pressure on someone's shield when you are marth. My flow of attacks was early fair>side b>neutral b>dtilt but I gave it up in favor of trying to bait a spot dodge or just staying in tipper range.

 

[big sleep]

@Ballin: let's say the first fair hits their shield and is spaced correctly... if they try to leave their shield with a roll, you're in the air just after a forward-B. you could just waveland in either direction, or w/e really, no threat. if they try to jump out of shield they get hit by the f-B. if they try to spotdodge they may dodge the f-B but get hit by the follow up aerial. (which reminds me, if you have someone hardcore conditioned to stay in shield, i have pulled off tipper early fair to f-B to fwd-waveland grab before... prob shouldn't work on high level opponents i guess though..)


the late f-air on shield to spaced-wait-and-watch is a good idea. just like late f-air to grab or empty SH to grab or wait and all the other mix-ups. the idea isn't that this becomes the staple thing marths do everytime they jump, but if it's thrown into the mix like everything else, i think it can definitely catch people off guard.


@Swift: lemme know how it goes plz


@Chipmunk: what do you mean by lose spacing? and i agree this technique would certainly be even further from necessary if all your opponents do is spotdodge or try to leave their shield when you're going to f-smash.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

@Chipmunk: what do you mean by lose spacing? and i agree this technique would certainly be even further from necessary if all your opponents do is spotdodge or try to leave their shield when you're going to f-smash.

Really? You don't see it? You space a fair perfectly, then you side b. Well, side b has its own momentum and that move is going to carry you further into the opponents shield. What's to stop a fox from shielding the fair, staying in shield for the side b, then usmashing OoS because you've drifted too close with the side b?

 

[big sleep]

ok, i actually wrote out an explanation for how to avoid that, but deleted it because i thought moving into the opponent's shield wasn't what you would be referring to...


you can just "backflip" SH with an immediate fair, and then the subsequent f-B and aerial will also happen as you move backward... the same principle, but receding away from the opponent while attacking instead of falling into him.

 

[.Chipmunk.]

Then you're no longer pressuring their shield and are giving up valuable space. You've turn an advantage into a neutral situation.

 

[big sleep]

it depends on the initial positioning, if you are staring them down while they're in the corner, you would be receding to the middle ground which can be useful in the sense that you still have stage control and are spaced properly. you also might hit them with one of the 3 moves if they're trying to leave their shield during the sequence... it could catch them by surprise

in the same situation, maybe a grab to punish would be a better outcome, but you don't 100% know what move the opponent will make, and depending on how you've conditioned them, this sequence can become useful.

and not just in shielding situations, it may be useful that marth can simply throw out 3 aerials in one SH... i haven't tried this out enough, i wanna see what people can come up with, especially from neutral.

 

[Ether]

2013 metagame. I will test this. Might be viable with a semi-retreating fair.

Run up > WD in place to space for fair might be a good setup, too.

I don't know, it's worth a try.

 

[big sleep]

excellent, please let me know how it goes

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

lol I referenced this thread in my commentary

Ken loves this ****

 

[big sleep]

damn..


i'm honored

 

[Ether]

Yeah, Ken chose to overshoot fair > reverse dancing blade, three hits. So no second fair required, and you just have to worry about OoS retaliation since you're behind them and can't be shield grabbed. All in all, kinda flashy and fun to use.

 

[.Ðempt]

If your opponent can react, this is not a good idea.

I honestly feel like we should be trying to figure out more fundamentals for Marth rather than figure out gimmicks like this. It could possibly lead to something, but I still feel like there's more to polish out his standard gameplay.

 

[big sleep]

Yeah, Ken chose to overshoot fair > reverse dancing blade, three hits. So no second fair required, and you just have to worry about OoS retaliation since you're behind them and can't be shield grabbed. All in all, kinda flashy and fun to use.

i like that... and you can easily react from the first hit of dancing blade to see whether you should continue forward Bing or do something else... i'm pretty sure it's safe if you can pull off the overshot f-air correctly

 

[Deleted member]

If your opponent can react, this is not a good idea.

I honestly feel like we should be trying to figure out more fundamentals for Marth rather than figure out gimmicks like this. It could possibly lead to something, but I still feel like there's more to polish out his standard gameplay.

best post in here.

if you hit with fair, you hit with it and go nuts. if you missed, you get ****ed for being a marth that missed with a sword attack.

seriously people just go back to movement + grab > upthrow.

 

[Cactuar]

This isnt a good option to use. Sh fair->fb->things actually counters itself.

 

[big sleep]

damn...



*does it anyway*

 

[.Ðempt]

Beginning to wonder if maybe it would be a good idea to list a basic gameplay for Marth. Not necessarily a matchup chart, but things that Marth should be doing in almost, if not, every one of their games.

Would anyone be interested in reading/putting their own opinion towards something like that?

 

[Deleted member]

Beginning to wonder if maybe it would be a good idea to list a basic gameplay for Marth. Not necessarily a matchup chart, but things that Marth should be doing in almost, if not, every one of their games.

Would anyone be interested in reading/putting their own opinion towards something like that?

i already do it with intense bitterness and one-liners.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I half expected the only word in the OP to be "Win"

and then a giant troll face below

I'm kind of disapppointed