Someone please explain to me what Dash Dancing does.

[DiggersBoy]

I just don't get the point of standing there pressing left and right repetetively. I mean, if they know where they are, they can predict an attack in that direction, unless someone is stupid enough to try to attack in the opposite direction.

 

[Celestis]

Dashing back and forth repeatedly does nothing. Just wasted energy and bound to get you punished. But Dash Dancing, actually Dash dancing... is used to bait out your opponent; Trying to get them to attack and give you the opening you need to punish. Mind games!

Some people Dash Dance really quick, but I like to take long strides most of the time. Marth is really good for that. But of course, how ever tight you do it all depends on the situation.

 

[shairn]

Dash dancing is used to give your opponent a harder time pinning you down, since it gives you the option to either evade something that comes your way or go in for the offensive. The better dash dances(Marth, Falcon, Fox) can be used very effectively for baiting an attack out of an opponent or gradually moving in on them by getting closer and faking out, pushing them back in the process since they'll fear the punish.

In other words, dash dancing is all about opening up your options and applying pressure on the opponent.

 

[LKratos]

This gif demonstrates the usefulness of good dash-dancing, in my opinion.

http://gfycat.com/AngryDearBassethound

 

[Celestis]

This gif demonstrates the usefulness of good dash-dancing, in my opinion.

http://gfycat.com/AngryDearBassethound

I was looking for that gif x]. Perfect example.

See how the Dash Dance caused Peach to be bated out, and Fox got the kill. Keep yourself less predictable.

 

[TheKmanOfSmash]

Perhaps an analogy would help.

Imagine you have a 4 year old brother and you're trying to be mean to him. You, being the much taller brother, take his toy and hold it up ever so slightly above his head to where he could reach it with his arms. But as he tries to jump to get the toy, you pull it higher, far above his head. You keep doing this until he cries and feels your dominance as the mean older brother.

That's how I like to think about dash dancing. Your character itself is the bait for your opponent and you make him think you're in a certain position. But as he tries to commit to a punish, you instantly pull back to make him miss, resulting in getting a sweet punish for you.

This gif demonstrates the usefulness of good dash-dancing, in my opinion.

http://gfycat.com/AngryDearBassethound

This is probably the perfect visual example of the analogy as its applied in Melee.

 

[Sour Supreme]

If you find it useless, then give up on it! No ones forcing you. I mean, it's like...

We can dance if we want to.

We can leave your friends behind

Cause your friends don't dance,

And if they don't dance then they're no friends of mine.

 

[shairn]

If you find it useless, then give up on it! No ones forcing you. I mean, it's like...

We can dance if we want to.

We can leave your friends behind

Cause your friends don't dance,

And if they don't dance then they're no friends of mine.

That is actually a song on smashville on a wii I play on regularly, and I hadn't seen its connection to smash until now.

 

[TreK]

Here are my three pieces of advice :
-learn what you can do out of a dash dance
-learn asymetrical dash dances
-dash dance more often until you know when NOT to dash dance

When you do these things, you should understand the thought process behind it. Good players always dash dance for a reason. Except if they're mango, that kid is just crazy.

 

[The Real Gamer]

This gif demonstrates the usefulness of playing like Mango, in my opinion.

http://gfycat.com/AngryDearBassethound

Fixed.

Anybody can learn to dash dance... Dash dancing effectively in the manner above is an entirely different story.

Mango is insane.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Dashdancing basically is being unpredictable. Every human has some sort of reaction time and dashdancing makes it much harder to predict to the few frames you cannot play on reaction but only on read. Against a TAS dashdancing wouldn't have any effect.
That would be my explanation why dashdancing really does something rather than it is just running around.

 

[GP&B]

DD-ing becomes increasingly more useful as you understand each character's "threat zone", or effective area where they can connect a hit on you.

Consider that you're Marth moving in on a zoning Mario. He short hop fireballs at you, you can:
-DD under the fireball's bounce arc continually and pressure Mario into moving in on you
-Pick an opportunity and run out of DD and pressure Mario with your superior range

It's specifically for these reasons that largely determine the slant of a matchup or at the very least how significantly neutral can be converted into pressure. DD-ing in tandem with your options against a specific character is what allows you to threaten space (like with Marth or Falcon)) or even directly attack your opponent (Falco, Fox, Mario who get in either through projectile or extremely safe options). Even then, it's not so simple. Take Ike who possesses similar movement speed and range to Marth, but overall laggier aerials. For this reason, he may approach similarly but has to attack his opponent in a much different fashion, namely more crossups and a lot of conditioning through QD options, rather than tossing out Fair and using incredible grab range to punish.

 

[Player -0]

I guess maybe a question I have is why is dash dancing better than standing still?

My best guesses would be your opponent would be trying to pick up on your movement and throw out a move.

Maybe the startup of the dash animation has lag?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I guess maybe a question I have is why is dash dancing better than standing still?

...lol'd
Bruh, if someone is dash dashing in and out of your space vs standing still, which would be EZer to predict and or react to? Standing still is only a mind game if that person has installed the fear in you. But that's besides the point. If someone is moving a lot, it becomes harder to guess what they will do. If they are DD, and they decide to sh nair, they will get a lot more distance with that, than if they stood still. Standing still does nothing for you and DD does numerous things. DD can apply pressure, bait, increase defense, add momentum to a sh and more. Standing does none of that. The only useful times I have seen for standing, is after some DD.

 

[Celestis]

I guess maybe a question I have is why is dash dancing better than standing still?

My best guesses would be your opponent would be trying to pick up on your movement and throw out a move.

Maybe the startup of the dash animation has lag?

I would think just watching that Fox gif would answer this.. perfectly..

 

[DiggersBoy]

So... Lemme give an explanation to see if I got it:

If you're on the right side of the stage and your opponent is on the left, like so: (O is opponent, U is you)

O______ U

Then, by dashdancing, the opponent will attempt to go for you while you're on the left side of your dash dance, but then you will immediately dash to the right, which then in turn causes them to fail their attempt miserably, giving you the chance to go in yourself.

Did I get it right?

 

[ThreeSided]

So... Lemme give an explanation to see if I got it:

If you're on the right side of the stage and your opponent is on the left, like so: (O is opponent, U is you)

O______ U

Then, by dashdancing, the opponent will attempt to go for you while you're on the left side of your dash dance, but then you will immediately dash to the right, which then in turn causes them to fail their attempt miserably, giving you the chance to go in yourself.

Did I get it right?

That's a very specific example, but it illustrates the general idea. You bait your opponent into taking actions that you can punish.

Another important point is that if you dash at your opponent when you were standing still before, they'll expect something. If you were already dashing back and forth repeatedly, they can't really expect the next dash toward them to mean any more than the last one. So they are forced to react to the actual action (grab, dash attack, SHUFFL) which is much harder if not impossible. Turns a reaction situation into a reading one.

 

[KayB]

So... Lemme give an explanation to see if I got it:

If you're on the right side of the stage and your opponent is on the left, like so: (O is opponent, U is you)

O______ U

Then, by dashdancing, the opponent will attempt to go for you while you're on the left side of your dash dance, but then you will immediately dash to the right, which then in turn causes them to fail their attempt miserably, giving you the chance to go in yourself.

Did I get it right?

You can do a lot of things out of dashes too. For example, if your opponent attacks while you're running towards them with your dash dance, you can either move the other way or you can simply wavedash back and punish with an attack of your own. You could crouch at lower percents and crouch cancel they're attack. You can shield and shield grab their move. You can jump and do an aerial that out prioritizes theirs. Of course, you can just dash dance to pressure an opponent who's close to the edge since they don't know what option you'll pull out.
Dash dancing is one of the moves in smash that I think has high reward and little risk. Simply by dash dancing you are simultaneously baiting your opponent, pressuring him, and opening up several attack methods at once. It's similar to the triple threat position in basketball where simply by going into one position you can pass, dribble, or shoot.

 

[Player -0]

I would think just watching that Fox gif would answer this.. perfectly..

I know, I understand that part.

The thing is why is constantly moving better than standing still and moving when you need to? The only reason I could see would be if there's a startup for the dash animation or to disguise your approach by making it seem like you're going to do the same thing again.

As I see it:

Pros/Cons of standing still and moving when needed:
+ You won't be moving so when you move forward only to fade back for a second it'll be more likely to evoke a response. (Questionably)
- Less aggressive/more obvious if you want to go in with an attack (See above).
- Won't be darting in and out of comfort zone but rather standing right on it, so somewhat less chance to get your opponent to do something while you do nothing/dashdance.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I know, I understand that part.

The thing is why is constantly moving better than standing still and moving when you need to? The only reason I could see would be if there's a startup for the dash animation or to disguise your approach by making it seem like you're going to do the same thing again.

As I see it:

Pros/Cons of standing still and moving when needed:
+ You won't be moving so when you move forward only to fade back for a second it'll be more likely to evoke a response. (Questionably)
- Less aggressive/more obvious if you want to go in with an attack (See above).
- Won't be darting in and out of comfort zone but rather standing right on it, so somewhat less chance to get your opponent to do something while you do nothing/dashdance.

If you want to stand still, go ahead. See how far it takes you, in your next your tournament.

 

[GP&B]

Dash dancing makes your range of movement and attacking way less obvious because you can DD asymmetrically to either move yourself in closer or out farther as necessary. It makes your movement ambiguous where as it's far easier to read someone who is standing still. You are much more likely to get hit as well not just because you're forcing yourself to work off of pure reaction but because you weren't in motion to begin with. A lot of my successful evades are when I'm already moving out of my opponent's range and have already baited them. Not only that, but good DD users will simply bait you out of stand because your options are narrower.

This is all coming from an Ike player here and I know I will almost guarantee lose matchups against pressure-heavy characters if my control over space isn't exceptionally good.

 

[Paradoxium]

Dash dance lets you threaton an area of space, evade attacks, bait out reactions, gain stage control, and stay unpredictable.

 

[Celestis]

I know, I understand that part.

The thing is why is constantly moving better than standing still and moving when you need to? The only reason I could see would be if there's a startup for the dash animation or to disguise your approach by making it seem like you're going to do the same thing again.

As I see it:

Pros/Cons of standing still and moving when needed:
+ You won't be moving so when you move forward only to fade back for a second it'll be more likely to evoke a response. (Questionably)
- Less aggressive/more obvious if you want to go in with an attack (See above).
- Won't be darting in and out of comfort zone but rather standing right on it, so somewhat less chance to get your opponent to do something while you do nothing/dashdance.

I think I understand what you mean. But you gotta think, even if there is no need to Dash Dance at a particular moment, it still applies mental pressure. If you're standing still and relaxed, your opponent will relax too. The constant motion and the constant mind games all stack up.

 

[TheKmanOfSmash]

I know, I understand that part.

The thing is why is constantly moving better than standing still and moving when you need to? The only reason I could see would be if there's a startup for the dash animation or to disguise your approach by making it seem like you're going to do the same thing again.

As I see it:

Pros/Cons of standing still and moving when needed:
+ You won't be moving so when you move forward only to fade back for a second it'll be more likely to evoke a response. (Questionably)
- Less aggressive/more obvious if you want to go in with an attack (See above).
- Won't be darting in and out of comfort zone but rather standing right on it, so somewhat less chance to get your opponent to do something while you do nothing/dashdance.

Standing (and walking as well) were amazing options in Brawl in part because you have access to all of your tilts and smash attacks from a stand/walk, giving you many ways to build up damage from the ground. And in a hit-and-run game like Brawl, this benefit is very positive. But the main reason why that option was not just really good but amazing, IMO, was due to the slower pace of the game (allowing prediction to be favored over reaction time) and because dash dancing in Brawl sucked.

In Melee/P:M, though you do have access to all of the same type of options as in Brawl, all standing/walking usually does is just leave you open to get attacked on reaction. You can use that as a kind of mix-up to apply certain types of positional pressure on your opponent (like if you have them trapped in the corner, just standing there can put a lot of mental pressure on them), but overall those options fall short to the great utility dash dancing gives in a fast paced game like Melee/P:M due to being able to weave in and out of your opponent's zone at will and punish over-commitments with some kind of combo starter or kill move on reaction. Something you cannot do well with standing/walking alone, I believe, and definitely something I wish you could've done in Brawl lol

 

[Player -0]

If you want to stand still, go ahead. See how far it takes you, in your next your tournament.

Gosh, everyone knows that I only have to stand still and chuck boomerangs to win. I'ma try it in friendlies though with my sucky Fox and my really sucky dash dance. I mean try both and compare kinda.

Standing (and walking as well) were amazing options in Brawl in part because you have access to all of your tilts and smash attacks from a stand/walk, giving you many ways to build up damage from the ground. And in a hit-and-run game like Brawl, this benefit is very positive. But the main reason why that option was not just really good but amazing, IMO, was due to the slower pace of the game (allowing prediction to be favored over reaction time) and because dash dancing in Brawl sucked.

In Melee/P:M, though you do have access to all of the same type of options as in Brawl, all standing/walking usually does is just leave you open to get attacked on reaction. You can use that as a kind of mix-up to apply certain types of positional pressure on your opponent (like if you have them trapped in the corner, just standing there can put a lot of mental pressure on them), but overall those options fall short to the great utility dash dancing gives in a fast paced game like Melee/P:M due to being able to weave in and out of your opponent's zone at will and punish over-commitments with some kind of combo starter or kill move on reaction. Something you cannot do well with standing/walking alon, I believe, and definitely something I wish you could've done in Brawl lol

What I feel like I'm hearing (from multiple people but I'm quoting you because long posts) is that Dash Dancing screws your opponent's perception of your area that YOU threaten which in turn makes them feel more unsafe while you retain all your options and stay safe. For doing stuff like jab out of dash you would wait until you get into the run animation, CC the run, and then jab or just WD then jab right?

 

[SAUS]

Look at it this way. If your character is just standing there, the moment your character does something, your opponent knows (because you are no longer standing there). Dash dancing can be done at any speed and the speed of it can change. You can't react as easily to things because the character animations are all messed up all the time. You're not going in and you're not retreating, but you can do either at any time without much warning from your character's animation.

Another thing of note is that, with the use of pivoting, you can do anything out of dash dancing that you could do from a standing position (except neutral b, but I don't know if that's the case in PM or not).

When it comes down to it, it is extremely helpful for spacing yourself. You can weave in and out of attacks which allows you to evade tons of different moves, including grabs (which shielding won't save you from). You don't limit your options by doing it (unlike jumping, shielding, or attacking). It makes it harder to react to your attacks - this is why dash dancing can be a form of shield pressure.

Dash dancing is an amazing tool and that's why everyone does it.

 

[DiggersBoy]

I think I'm getting it now, thanks everybody!

 

[Fortress]

Another useful application as a Sheik main (and one that's pretty solid for Ganondorf) is to dash dance near a thrown opponent, just outside of their wakeup range. No matter which direction they should choose to roll, you can tech chase (if they tech) and follow up with a regrab or a heavy hit. If they fail to tech, you're already on the move and can run in and attack them off of the ground. Sometimes your opponent will just panic and throw out their wakeup attack since you appear to be all over them, but you can just retreat out and back in and punish.

Dash dancing is a solid mindgame that will help you get the most out of your throws, forcing bad reactions out of an opponent who's already in a very poor position.

 

[DiggersBoy]

Another useful application as a Sheik main (and one that's pretty solid for Ganondorf) is to dash dance near a thrown opponent, just outside of their wakeup range. No matter which direction they should choose to roll, you can tech chase (if they tech) and follow up with a regrab or a heavy hit. If they fail to tech, you're already on the move and can run in and attack them off of the ground. Sometimes your opponent will just panic and throw out their wakeup attack since you appear to be all over them, but you can just retreat out and back in and punish.

Dash dancing is a solid mindgame that will help you get the most out of your throws, forcing bad reactions out of an opponent who's already in a very poor position.

Never thought of that one. Thanks!

 

[Fortress]

Never thought of that one. Thanks!

There are plenty of things that are unusual enough, and go against everything you should do that you can get away with using a mindgame like the dash dance. Throw somebody with 'Dorf, dash dance to bait a slow response (like a lengthy non-teched roll, or a wakeup attack), and simply Wizard's Foot (down-B) in for a dumb kill at modest percents. Not normally a move to just throw out there, but good mindgames will let you get away with dumb things like that.

 

[Phaiyte]

Something tells me you literally just dash dance in place and don't go anywhere with it. Don't do that. Flick the stick, and let it return to neutral. You can then keep going in the direction, change directions, whatever. Don't just rapidly press left/right, that's stupid and does nothing for you. It doesn't evade, it doesn't have any offensive properties, just quit it.

Running in this game has two animations. The first one is the relevant one. Any time during that animation, you can turn around instantly, or you can just let it end and press that direction again. AND there's like 2 frames where you're actually standing in neutral when you turn around, so you can C stick a Smash attack or get a grab in neutral without worrying about doing a dash attack on accident.

If you accidentally go into the second running animation, you'll know real fast when you try to change directions. You'll slide for like 5 years before actually turning around. Dash dancing allows you to skip that altogether. Just do it. Unless you're Jiggs, then like, idk man, jump or something.

 

[DiggersBoy]

Something tells me you literally just dash dance in place and don't go anywhere with it. Don't do that. Flick the stick, and let it return to neutral. You can then keep going in the direction, change directions, whatever. Don't just rapidly press left/right, that's stupid and does nothing for you. It doesn't evade, it doesn't have any offensive properties, just quit it.

Running in this game has two animations. The first one is the relevant one. Any time during that animation, you can turn around instantly, or you can just let it end and press that direction again. AND there's like 2 frames where you're actually standing in neutral when you turn around, so you can C stick a Smash attack or get a grab in neutral without worrying about doing a dash attack on accident.

If you accidentally go into the second running animation, you'll know real fast when you try to change directions. You'll slide for like 5 years before actually turning around. Dash dancing allows you to skip that altogether. Just do it. Unless you're Jiggs, then like, idk man, jump or something.

I know about the running animations and all, but the 2 frames in neutral position is new to me. So, you're saying that I should let it return to neutral first, and then dash the opposite direction?

 

[Phaiyte]

I know about the running animations and all, but the 2 frames in neutral position is new to me. So, you're saying that I should let it return to neutral first, and then dash the opposite direction?

If your intention is to just switch directions, which is the most likely situation, you don't have to wait. I was just pointing out that neutral state happens when you do switch directions, and you can act out of it as though you were in neutral.

edit: can't meant can whoops

 

[Fortress]

Another thing is to practice it and get consistent with your dexterity. I still **** up a lot with dash dancing in that I'm just sliiiiiiiiiiiiightly holding upwards while dash dancing, and I just end up pivoting in place like a ****ing goon.

 

[1FD]

It's only good with Jigglypuff
Don't bother with anyone else

 

[Celestis]

It's only good with Jigglypuff
Don't bother with anyone else

Sir, sir... Sir... Tisk tisk.

 

[210stuna]

It does nothing, but all the cool kids are doing it so I do it anyways.