someone needs to make guide about pal changes

[Timic83]

im so pissed when half the guides for marth are like "lololol chaingrab"

it makes me so sad i cant do this stuff

 

[Witchblade]

Look at smashwiki.

In short, your dthrow sends people away further, so you can't chain, and upair is weaker.

Some other stuff:
- fox's fsmash and upsmash are weaker.
- ganon's fair is weaker.
- marth falls over from shine.

Some low tiers got some boosts...

 

[Vts]

Look at smashwiki.

In short, your dthrow sends people away further, so you can't chain, and upair is weaker.

Some other stuff:
- fox's fsmash and upsmash are weaker.
- ganon's fair is weaker.
- marth falls over from shine.

Some low tiers got some boosts...

basicly its making the game closer to balanced if anything but since there is like 10x the other ones its hard to put it in tournaments unless they are not in usa/japan

also pretty sure sheik's fair is weaker, marth's semi-spike is now a spike so it can be meteor canceled

 

[Timic83]

eg can i ever techchase a marth or peach with dthrow

 

[gm jack]

If they DI so they can't tech or decide to tech anyway, yes. Though it may force a tech at lower percents on marth, I'm not sure.

 

[j3ly]

in PAL if you have enough room to fully DI the dthrow away, and tech-roll away, the shiek cant follow up. to that end, when playing as a spacie its almost always a good idea to let her tech-chase you the first throw (unless u can escape) in a way that sets up ur escape next time

 

[Timic83]

facing serious mental depression over never being able to beat marth or peach in tourny

i need ****ing support from you sheik boards
dont tell me its impossible i dont want to switch mains

i been maining ics for 1 year getting ***** by marth and peach i dont want to find out the character i picked up to specifically deal with these ***** is only good in a much better version of the game

edit: reading smash wiki wtf
Sheik: can chain most characters (Bowser, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Pikachu, Ganondorf, Pichu, Roy, Young Link, Mr. Game & Watch, Link, Ness, and Sheik) with her down throw from as little as 0% up to as high as 90%. This however doesn't work in the PAL version of Melee due to her down throw sending her opponents too far forward to grab again.

so shiek cant even cg peach and marth anyway? im confused. i suppose its not so bad as shiek beats these guys with dthrows anyway, plus lack of killing uair is good for pal combos...

i dunno **** what argh arrrrgh

 

[KirbyKaze]

You got this

In NTSC from 0-20 and 0-40 or so she can CG Marth and Peach if they DI away

If they DI elsewhere she can't hit the regrab, they're too high and can jump/attack/air-dodge first

 

[gm jack]

facing serious mental depression over never being able to beat marth or peach in tourny

i need ****ing support from you sheik boards
dont tell me its impossible i dont want to switch mains

i been maining ics for 1 year getting ***** by marth and peach i dont want to find out the character i picked up to specifically deal with these ***** is only good in a much better version of the game

edit: reading smash wiki wtf
Sheik: can chain most characters (Bowser, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Pikachu, Ganondorf, Pichu, Roy, Young Link, Mr. Game & Watch, Link, Ness, and Sheik) with her down throw from as little as 0% up to as high as 90%. This however doesn't work in the PAL version of Melee due to her down throw sending her opponents too far forward to grab again.

so shiek cant even cg peach and marth anyway? im confused. i suppose its not so bad as shiek beats these guys with dthrows anyway, plus lack of killing uair is good for pal combos...

i dunno **** what argh arrrrgh

Peach is actually a slight disadvantage for Sheik without the Dthrow combos. Against Marth, they still aren't there, but Sheik has the advantage for other reasons.

J3ly, you can chase the DI and tech away, but I tend to only do it on read (i.e, they know it's pretty safe so do it a few times to escape from punishes on the other options) and just start dashing as soon as I can to boost grab them. The usual WD boost grab requires insane reflexes though.

 

[KirbyKaze]

In PAL it looks like you can force him into tech chases if he DIs away so if that's the case (and true), then you can probably just treat him like a space animal. Tech chase a dash attack at some point and figure out how to follow from there.

If you can trap him by the edge you can probably get some nice follows. If you can get him on the ledge, the way you keep him from regaining ground (needles, mainly, but also tilts, crouch abuse, and good positioning) is fairly unaltered. You can also still edgeguard him fairly effectively, just by lightshield edgehog and various other things.

 

[Timic83]

ok thnx guys ill try to stay shiek... my edgeguards sitll pretty **** tho lol

 

[Timic83]

You got this

In NTSC from 0-20 and 0-40 or so she can CG Marth and Peach if they DI away

If they DI elsewhere she can't hit the regrab, they're too high and can jump/attack/air-dodge first

so 20/40+ shiek can chaingrab in ntsc???

 

[Timic83]

after playing project m it seems ntsc shiek in melee would be able to combo upsmash out of dthow? that makes me a sad pal-der

 

[KirbyKaze]

she can but it's di dependent and character dependent

 

[Timic83]

honestly its just marth and peach i dont want to be missing out on lol, the matchups are at LEAST even still rite

 

[KirbyKaze]

sheik still beats marth in PAL

peach i dunno she probably loses to peach in PAL

 

[stelzig]

According to amsah it's in peach's advantage in PAL, but I think armada begs to differ?
Either way the matchup isn't that horrible for sheik (maybe unless you play at the very top level) so sheik is a fine secondary to pick up for those two matchups at your level I imagine. If your edgeguards are so bad though then you definitly need to work on that.

Other than the simple lightshield edgehog against marth I believe simply nairing around the edge works pretty well against marth's recovery too. Especially if you can mange to pick up some invincibility from edgehogging just before he UpB's.

 

[Jolteon]

peach has a small advantage on sheik in pal

you can still punish spacies who di away+tech away j3ly, it's just harder lol