Some More Videos...Update 1/29/07 *VS Falcon*

[lavagolem123]

Took down the other videos to simplify things. If you want to see them, just look in my profile. Anyways, here's a couple of M2 vs Falcon videos. I'll upload the ones against O as soon as I can transfer them to another computer(this one doesn't upload to YouTube for some reason...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs56Mu3kuHY M2 vs Falcon 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu-yPywfrGA M2 vs Falcon 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGYA-YMmjns M2 vs Falcon 3

 

[GoldenGlove]

Wow, very nice Mewtwo. Better than me anyway

 

[quak]

play 4 stock, not three.

watch it with the nairs, most people will adapt to them and punish them when they get predictable

don't use confusion against projectiles, even if you get it off, you'll still get punished

doesn't look like you have control over mewtwo yet, you kinda of just jump in while throwing out random attacks, try wd'ing instead.

after you jump and airdodge, make sure you land earlier than you are now, keep in mind, it's like a botched wd, otherwise it's too slow.

maybe the next vids can be against fast fallers, not too sure how to play against y.links and marios

 

[lavagolem123]

They don't like 3 stock, "it takes too long". So 3 is all I'll have = / Sorry. Thanks though.

 

[quak]

it's all good

 

[Airo]

mario IS a huge pain to play agaianst =.="
i wont comment on that match.

the younglink one was very enjoyable ^^
nice teleport chases
nice nair to dtilts
nice random confusions
last stock was just awesome. you mindgamed him into suiciding.

 

[bugball]

woah amazing

 

[dguy6789]

Impressive videos.

 

[Bungalobill3]

I just finished watching all of the update videos.

Things like this make newbs like me happy.

I really liked the short hopped teleports and the random confusions that worked occasionally. The disable edgeguards never worked, and it looked like you were just doing random moves in random places as your edgeguard. That might have just been you experimenting though.

Anyway, the videos were very good. I might film some of me and Cephrir tomorrow, but if I do they won't get anywhere for a while. You looked good though. Not like me, I need help. =(

 

[quak]

good mindgames with the teleports and dashdancing, doc is a real *** to play, **** the pills.He's like mario, but better

quick hands, but let's see some vids against fastfallers man. Preferable either fox or Captain Falcon. Or Sheik, she's one my fav match ups

 

[lavagolem123]

-Quak-
Well, maybe I'll get some vs Falcon on Saturday. They don't really play any other characters. Check back next week for them, I'll update the title if anything."



-Bungalobill3-
Yeah, I was experimenting with the Disable as an edgeguard...Maybe it'll work better against characters with less recovery options, like Falcon?

Anyways, thanks for watching guys =]

 

[quak]

nah, it's just not a good idea, they recover just the same. the disable thing, you might get luck with falco though, since his third jump has no shroud of fire, has long wind up, and doesn't get him anywhere...........hmmm....

*adds to "note to self" tape recorder*

 

[Airo]

hmmmm.... you play well ^^
but your doc friend is very questionable.

doc's dthrow > fair kills mewtwo at 90% i dano why hes not using and abusing it.

he is a very spammy doc. he spams lots of aerials and his spacing isnt so good either.. sigh...you punished him well with your nair, usmash, and uair. props.

nice edgeguarding with instantDJC bairs
good utilization of bairs in general.

and yes, it really would be awesome if you get some matches against characters other than doc and mario.

the recoveries, not enough mindgame, teleports distance are very easy to predict. refrain from relying too much on it. Especially when you see your enemy is well spaced out away from the edge, all prepared to intercept you.

last mario match.... at 2:25..... WOOT?? was that a second jump to uair...
it almost looks like a teleport canceled into an uair or something.... o.o
sigh at the big fat opaque stage.

lol at nair spam, but sigh, thats the best option against floaties.

good vids, thx for uploading. they were very enjoyable =]

 

[Thunderbolt]

Whoa nice Mewtwo. Its good to see someone other than me use Greentwo. [Green Mewtwo]

 

[Airo]

hehe, good update.... we need an updated movie compendium.
heres my response

- you need better opponents ... falcons are meant to counter mewtwos. no offence to either of you implied, you play a great mewtwo. but all a falcon needs to do is keep spamming nairs and have good spacing. Falcon's nairs has a much longer range than your grab so you cant shield grab. and if the falcon is always on the offence, mewtwo can barely match his speed so you wont have room to work on mindgames and dtilt him back.
- impressive techchase to disable =]
- i smile to the dtilt edgeguards
- dont use confusion as a retaliation when recovering unless you have your second jump.
- from watching your gameplay, im sure you have your own idea on how else you can improve, so i wont 'critic' too much.

great, thx for your contributions, and sry for slow response.. perhaps create a post after your updates so i can be notified in my control panel and support you better.

 

[Tongji]

wait falcons are ment to couner the kat? Idk about that, from the few falcons that I have played I find that falcon has alot of trouble with SBCC combos. idk It just seems that shadow ball charges seem to disrupt all of his arials and if you just use proper WD to disrupt spacing, i think that m2 has a good chance. just my oppion correct me if im wrong.

 

[quak]

well, if you're supremely better than the C falcon ur playing, it's easy to do kick *** combos.

However, if your skill is anywhere close to being the same, prepare to get your **** shoved in, especially if he knows how to play against mewtwo.

Captain Falco's comboing is awesomely good against floaties.

Such combo's as: upair, upair, upair, upair, upair, NAIR, upair, knee.

dam nair......

 

[Tongji]

i suppose, on the flip side tho you should be able to back throw to death lolz

 

[quak]

true, but supposedly, the c falcon should be good enough to hit you once, then commence comboing till you die.....

And the back throw to edgegaurding would probably work if he's around 50% at least.

Regardless of the crazy speed, combos, and grabs c falcon has on you, he's still one of my favorite matchups.

 

[MetaKnight0]

Yeah Falcon takes Mewtwo and rams him quite hard in the face.

He has aforementioned combos, plus if he gets a grab you lose all that momentum you worked so hard to get and he works you with a chain-grab or up air to knee.

He also dash-dances. Mewtwo just cannot beat a really good dash-dancer.

Yeah if Falcon isn't any good or he's on the defensive Mewtwo can do a lot cuz a lot of Mewtwo's good stuff will work on Falcon. It's just that Falcon works you harder = /

 

[quak]

fair more, nair less

work on combos, not just react/retaliation

 

[Airo]

all falcon needs to do go full offensive on mewtwo, and mewtwo will have absolutely no options but to be stuck in his shield, eat nairs till death....

mewtwo's rolls and techs are incomprehendable to falcon's speed, falcon will be able to punish EVERY tech and roll you do.

but, if the falcon goes defensive, even if they both play at equal competitive levels, mewtwo should be able to hold his own. but most falcons figure this out after a handful of matches

 

[Tongji]

while the thought of a super agressive falcon (most are) is quite scary, I still think that SBCC should be looked into more as a viable counter technique. While I have not had the honor of playing the best falcon in my area yet which is Tapion, If I do somehow get the chance I will post my experiences and hopefully come up with a more viable theory on SBCC v falcons other than just a hypothesis and limited play time. Im not trying to argue that M2 doesn't have a problem with falcon (he definatly does) Im just going to try and see if SBCC can perhaps put off some agressiveness and let M2 get his feet back under him per say. If SBCC could possibly be a type of deterrent to falcons SHFFL'd arials I think would put a tighter leash on the viable options C.Falcon can throw at m2. Sorry about the long post.

 

[quak]

well, keep in mind that SBCC is a technique that works best sparringly, you need it to surprise. If you hope to use it as a reliable method of starting combos, be prepared to be read, cause it's easy for a falcon to dair, nair, uair, or fair you out of it.

 

[Airo]

sbcc doesnt have a large enough hitbox to 'deter' cfalcon's nairs.
even your shield is fragile to his nairs.

best hope is to wd like crazy to space yourself. and aim for dtilts. they work great on falcon.

still... one chain of falcon combos, and mewtwo's out

 

[Airo]

last mario match.... at 2:25..... WOOT?? was that a second jump to uair...
it almost looks like a teleport canceled into an uair or something.... o.o
sigh at the big fat opaque stage.

no one responded to this x.x

 

[lavagolem123]

Oh, sorry. Eh...I don't really see what you mean though...I watched it over again and I'm still not seeing what you're talking about. Which match is it again? vs O or BIRD? And which stage? I'll check it out again and see if I can find out what you mean.

 

[Airo]

your match against mario on pokemon stadium.

at 2:25, your recovery looked like a teleport to uair

 

[Pdiz]

This is pretty funny actually, because Captain Falcon is my best match up. Sure CFalc and totally **** Mewtwo, but it's not to say that mewtwo can't do the same. If you're getting comboed like crazy, then you're not DIing properly.

 

[quak]

weird, i have the same thing with sheik, i destroy her, but my friends wised up and transform to zelda. HOW THE **** DO YOU PLAY A ****IN ZELDA?!?

and true, you can escape most combos by DI'ing away, but still, the C. Falcon might not even skip a beat and he'll follow up by grabing, or kneeing, or possibly both.

 

[Airo]

This is pretty funny actually, because Captain Falcon is my best match up. Sure CFalc and totally **** Mewtwo, but it's not to say that mewtwo can't do the same. If you're getting comboed like crazy, then you're not DIing properly.

no DI can save you from a falcon nair > nair > fair combo
falcon has countless combos on mewtwo that are toughies to escape.

and mewtwo cant **** cfalcon


oooo pdiz, your in Washinton....
you should go find eggz, silent wolf, hero sublime, and gimpy.
any one of them should have a deadly cfalcon randomly up their sleeves.

 

[Pdiz]

and mewtwo cant **** cfalcon

I strongly disagree. And yes, I already have played with Silentwolf and Gimpy, although I haven't played their of there falcons.

 

[Airo]

coolness
have i met you? x.x
washington guys always come up to richmond =]
im sorry ive never come down to washington for your monthly tournaments. heh

anyways
mewtwo's has absolutely no solid approach against a falcon
mewtwo's classic and successful wavedash and dtilts/grabs are disabled in this match because of falcon's aggressive nair spams
mewtwo's shield grab is always out of range after falcon's nair
upon rare occasions, mewtwo CAN start his combos on falcon

it IS true that falcon's weight factors makes him ideal for mewtwo's combos
mewtwo's simple dtilt> dtilt> dtilt> fair> fair usually lands pretty easily.

however, mewtwo has no combos that leads to a kill.

mewtwo will need to have at least 3 successful approaches before he can throw him off the edge and commence edgeguarding. upthrow is not an option in this match, cfalcons live up to 150% on FD. i must echo myself that mewtwo has serious difficulties in approaching cfalcons.

i must also echo my previous posts that cfalcon's speed allows him to follow and punish any roll, shteleport, or tech that mewtwo does.

against a falcon that knows what he is doing, mewtwo has very slim chances of winning. however, taj always prove everything as exceptions. i am solidated in my point of view until taj comes and points out otherwise.

keep discussing =]

 

[Airo]

pdiz!! oh you must be the mewtwo gimpy was talking to me about.

sweetness, we must discuss boozer mewtwo matchup after this =p
then i must play you! but sry im not comming down to WA comming saturday.

edit: recognition of bad doublepost.

 

[Pdiz]

Yep that's me. And no I don't believe I've ever played you. Yeah Gimpy and I played once, though not in while. I beat him like a 3rd of the time, although I think I've gotten a lot better since then. Well definately have to play some. Let me know when you come to washington.

As for cfalc, I can't quite remember specifically how to deal with the nair, but I don't remember it giving me much trouble. Maybe it's because I haven't played a nair spammer. But anyways, the wavedash to down tilt is still a very valid approach, especially on a smaller level where cfalc can't breath. Mewtwo's nair stops falcons incoming stomps and knees too. From what I remember it's pretty easy to block the nairs, and if he tries to grab you a quick fair outta shield might do the trick.

By the way, I've been heavily experimenting with the disable latley, and it seems to do a really good job and destroying any short hop incoming arials. I know it works really well against ganondorf, I'm curious to give it a try against cfalcs nair.

Mewtwo doesn't need the up-throw, cfalc is boned once he's off the ledge.

I'm sure you know you can tech chase cflac. That's a plus.

If you can perfect the perfect wavedash, you can arguably match the speed of a falcon. Use it keep up with him and don't let him get away.

The shadowball charge facing away is also a decent defense.

Now I haven't played any super duper good falcons before, but I definately play against very compitent people who know what they're doing and I usually beat their cfalcs.

Cfalc is my favorite match up for a reason.

 

[quak]

i'd like to add that mewtwo doesn't need to have an approchal in this match up, he should be playing defensively because he has a projectile and C falcon Does not.

Sheild tactics against this guy work beutifully.

 

[bovineblitzkrieg]

I like the m2 vs falcon matchup. Any hit you get on falcon can be combo'd forever. It's true that he can combo you back, but oftentimes you can sneak in an airdodge or teleport before he can hit you for the third or fourth time. You can angle this properly into a grab or dtilt grab. Ledgeguarding is pretty easy with multiple bairs (especially l-cancelled bair bair bair combos, you can knock him across the stage with perfect timing) and various other tactics. M2 is great at ledgeguarding, I especially love teleporting to the ledge the instant before the opponent is about to grab it.

M2's wavedash rivals falcon's speed, and short hopping shadowballs and reversing direction can score some easy opportunities for you (it does, however, leave you pretty open. situational, of course.)

My favorite thing about mewtwo is that you can use his teleports and air dodges to disrupt the timing of the opponent. Mewtwo has an erratic rhythm, especially if you're exaggerating that aspect of his gameplay. You just have to be extra tricksy with the kitty and you can wreck a good falcon.

Severly underrated.

 

[MetaKnight0]

Playing defensively is like teetering on the brink of death. You're giving Falcon exactly what he wants, momentum. He's constantly punching you and poking you and you can't do much with shield-grab. It's very difficult to be purely defensive, and a poorly timing Shadowball can lead you to getting a large amount of damage put on you.

I have to agree pretty much with what Airo is saying. I play with someone who knows how my Mewtwo works and a lot of what Mewtwo can do and it can be very frustrating to win. It's not for lack of creativity either. It's just that a solid wall in front of Captain Falcon can totally dominate Mewtwo.

 

[quak]

Playing defensively is like teetering on the brink of death. You're giving Falcon exactly what he wants, momentum. He's constantly punching you and poking you and you can't do much with shield-grab. It's very difficult to be purely defensive, and a poorly timing Shadowball can lead you to getting a large amount of damage put on you.

I have to agree pretty much with what Airo is saying. I play with someone who knows how my Mewtwo works and a lot of what Mewtwo can do and it can be very frustrating to win. It's not for lack of creativity either. It's just that a solid wall in front of Captain Falcon can totally dominate Mewtwo.

True, very true. I know a C. Falcon should dominate you. I was just stating that you should leave the approching mainly to Captain Falcon. Because if you try to approch a C falcon with wavedashing and D-tilting, odds are, your going to eat a buttload of chained aerials.

If he's moving at lightspeed, there's not much you can do except shadowball sparingly and try to sheild/aviod him. And if he does hit your sheild, they're are many options you can do, such as a SH fair or a grab. Fairs work wonders on Fastfallers, as we all know, and a sheild grab with some grab pings tack on damage, while also getting some distance.

Plus if you throw him over your shoulder off the stage, he's one of the easiest characters to edgegaurd.

i must also echo my previous posts that cfalcon's speed allows him to follow and punish any roll, shteleport, or tech that mewtwo does.

I KNOW! Why the **** does mewtwo's tech have so much LAG?

Edit: Dudes, i kinda feel bad for lavagolem, we're supposed to be critiquing his vid, not debating the Mewtwo C.Falcon matchup. Kinda hijacked his thread......

 

[Airo]

ah well.... i think that anything that contributes to a well thought out discussion should be well awarded.

ITS really rare to find good discussions
im happy that most posts in mewtwo are intelligent. silly shiek and fox threads are full of repetition.

continuing with discussion

defensively, proper DI occasionally saves mewtwo from a falcon dthrow to knee combo.
and teleport also occasionally saves him from the onslaught of combos.
but these chips are too small to make any difference.

and, from what ive experienced, ive almost never had the chance to throw a shadowball

and yes, nair definately occasionally stops knees and nairs. it also helps rack up damage nicely. however, excessive use of this is impossible. only thing is that it rarely combos into anything.

Yep that's me. And no I don't believe I've ever played you. Yeah Gimpy and I played once, though not in while. I beat him like a 3rd of the time, although I think I've gotten a lot better since then. Well definately have to play some. Let me know when you come to washington.

yeah, i money matched him for $5, i won once and lost twice. they were all satisfying matches though. i really hate his UpB and Claw spam ._. and i can never edgeguard him properly, all of my kills were upthrows =.=

and so far, i think my fav matchup is fox. incredibly easy to combo and not alot of pressure. fox doesnt have a projectile that limits mewtwo's movements. drillshine is grabable. fox is also not a challenge when edgeguarding. to me, it looks like a fun matchup. although foxes upthrow to uair is deadly, approaches from both sides are fairly even. i actually think that mewtwo does a better job in approach in this matchup.