Some buffs we would like to see in 1.05?

[asd_]

--Remove the windbox on dtilt (makes it much harder to on-stage edgeguard with it), lower the endlag a bit
--Add a lingering sourtspot hitbox to fmash on the sweetspot portion (the fire)
--increase knockback significantly on upsmash and sourspot dsmash, slightly on fsmash and sweetspot dsmash
--Increase his weight a bit... i mean come on, faclon's sideb kills g&w at only 97% on FD.. to give you an idea it kills zelda at 108%, an already very light character
--increase the knockback and damage of fair a bit


After all of that personally I think he'd be average...they took all the good things about him in melee/brawl away and didn't really compensate elsewhere (still large endlag on aerials, still very very light). I want to main G&W in sm4sh competitvely but i'm finding it really hard to justify considering how bad he is.

Granted, G&W really does shine off stage with the new ledge mechanics. Up-b is really good for stage-spiking and fair has above average priority. But, IMO, it's not enough.

 

[Gardex]

Slowfall dair by fastfalling, like it was in Brawl.

That's all I need.

 

[A2ZOMG]

imo I would give G&W 1 more damage on both hitboxes of F-air, base knockback increases on all his Smashes and F-tilt, and probably remove about 4 frames of ending lag from D-tilt and D-air (or allow D-air to be slowfalled again). Then I'd be happy with G&W.

In exchange, I would nerf G&W's N-air damage by 1 on the 2nd hit, because his juggles are slightly polarizing in a few matchups.

 

[X3I]

- Lingering hitbox on the Fsmash's fire
- More knockback on the Usmash
- Slightly better hitbox on the Utilt
- Bucket cancelling
- More weight, since there is no bucket cancelling
- Reduced landing lag on the Nair/Bair/Dair (seriously, Dair was already unsafe in Brawl... wasn't needed to nerf that)

Guess that's all.

 

[DriveSober]

In this game they really tried to change G&W's playstyle from glass canon to a fast slippery gimmick poker. One of the big problems is that he has way too much lag for a speedy character and they just added more.

-reduce landing lag on bair and dair
-increase the general knockback on smash attacks

That's the basics to make G&W not awful. The low weight is fine, just let G&W have the ability to kill the enemy too.

Here are some things that really need to be fixed imo but aren't essential:

-give dtilt back it's old power
-do SOMETHING to dtilt's windbox to make it actually reliable
-remove some of the lag from bucket (it already only absorbs energy attacks, it doesn't need to be so ridiculously punishable)
-be able to slow fall the dair
-remove the slow fall dair crap when you get hit

 

[asd_]

In this game they really tried to change G&W's playstyle from glass canon to a fast slippery gimmick poker. One of the big problems is that he has way too much lag for a speedy character and they just added more.

-reduce landing lag on bair and dair
-increase the general knockback on smash attacks

That's the basics to make G&W not awful. The low weight is fine, just let G&W have the ability to kill the enemy too.

Here are some things that really need to be fixed imo but aren't essential:

-give dtilt back it's old power
-do SOMETHING to dtilt's windbox to make it actually reliable
-remove some of the lag from bucket (it already only absorbs energy attacks, it doesn't need to be so ridiculously punishable)
-be able to slow fall the dair
-remove the slow fall dair crap when you get hit

pretty much this, i'd like for him to get back his glass cannon status but right now he's just glass nothing. no more bucket breaking personally can justify a slight weight increase

the dtilt windbox pretty much makes it useless for edgeguarding, therefore making it a pointless move because of insane endlag..it's like ~30-40 frames of endlag once the hitbox is gone...for a 6% dmg tilt, really?!

 

[iMeeHow]

Give him back his Bair from brawl. It feels like the hitbox is only active for half the time it was in brawl yet he has even more recovery when he lands

 

[Sup3rn00b]

Every judge number is a one hit kill.

 

[bisho bola]

Right now shorthop fair > Dtilt is almost comboable.Would be great a little less landing lag on fair to make it possible

I'd kill for less landing lag in Fair, Dair and Bair,

Dair and Bair landing lag is just ridiculous. WAAAY to safe to shieldgrab you from bair
Also I'd kill for a more horizontal throw, since Turtle Bairs are ****ing great to do follow ups off stage
smashes with little more power /knockback maybe

 

[PEPESPAIN]

- Bucket Bracking
- Slowfall dair
- Give dtilt back it's old power
- Reduced landing lag on the Nair/Bair/Dair
^
This.

I think with that nerfs I'm not going to play G&W in SSB4. It's not viable. Really sad....

 

[Nekoishi]

Make the upb special that removes his parachute replace his nair with the melee one.

 

[K-45]

I just want him to have less end lag on all his airs

 

[Deleted member]

A few things:

Make B-air have less landing lag and do more damage (it does 9% now compared to 17% in brawl)
Be able to slowfall d-air/less landing lag
Give him more killing power on his F-smash, Dsmash and U-smash (obviously)
Less ending lag on d-tilt
Lingering hitbox on fsmash
More range on U-tilt

 

[freezus]

I can think of a couple of changes.
-Melee level knockback on his d-tilt
-Less landing lag on his fair and bair
-F-tilt comes out faster
-Jab is faster( Jab 2 can get countered even if you land Jab 1)
-Bucket should either be like Project M's bucket, or could bucket every projectile
-More knockback on his up-smash and f-smash
-Generally more reach on most of his attacks
-Extremely louder bell taunts

I think the landing lag and the reach are the most important parts.

 

[Rakurai]

I really enjoy the two noticeable buffs he did get in the form of his improved dash attack and the guard frames on his up smash (Which seem to trigger on frame one, meaning you can stuff practically any attack from above or behind if your reflexes are good).

If they just made his aerials have less landing lag and raised his KO power back to Brawl levels, I think I'd be satisfied.

 

[Deleted member]

I bring sad news to my fellow G&W mains. Sakurai doesn't plan to release another balance patch, according to a recent interview. Future patches are only going to address online problems and 'glaring issues'.

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...ther-outside-fixes-improve-online-experience/

 

[Lunix7]

Honestly I think he was one of the characters that needed the buffs the most and I was so disappointed when he didn't get any.
Anyway...lets start the list!
+ Less ending lag on Bair and Dair and Dtilt - I mean come on, his ending lag on Bair, Dtilt and Dair is insane especially with Dair. Why does the second lightest character have tons of ending lag on his moves?!
+ Slow falling Dair returns - Why oh why did they remove this???!!! This was one of the best things about G&W and allowed for some crazy mind games. Bring this back!
+ Make a bit stronger - Honestly in brawl he was a force to be reckoned with his strong moves, in this game he is just so weak in general. I thought that was the whole point of G&W was to be a glass cannon like in brawl. Just make him a bit stronger.
+ More knock back on Fair , Dsmash, Fsmash - Like I said before isn't G&W supposed to be a glass cannon so why is the knock back on these so weak?! I mean hell you know its bad when you land a Fair on somebody ONLY to get punished yourself....what?! Give more knock back to these moves so G&W is actually a threat.

Ok so I think I mentioned all the important points that I wanted to highlight. I guess I just want him to be like he was in brawl....He just doesn't feel nearly as good as he was in brawl. Now don't get me wrong there are some things that were overall improved with such as G&W's jab and dash attack but it just feels like everything else has been watered down. Ok I think I'm done with everything I had to say about G&W...I just had to get this off my chest.

end of rant! (Oh how I miss you brawl G&W...)

 

[BBC7]

I bring sad news to my fellow G&W mains. Sakurai doesn't plan to release another balance patch, according to a recent interview. Future patches are only going to address online problems and 'glaring issues'.

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/...ther-outside-fixes-improve-online-experience/

No plans =/= not going to happen.

That being said, his Bair needs to be buffed so that it kills off-stage and the 5th hit is easier to land.

 

[Deleted member]

No plans =/= not going to happen.

That being said, his Bair needs to be buffed so that it kills off-stage and the 5th hit is easier to land.

B-air doesn't even have a 5th hit anymore. Only 4 weak hits that only do 2 damage each, and it has even more landing lag. This move got hindered so badly it's not even funny. Also its knockback isn't as good as it was before, just like f-air.

I'd be all in for more knockback/damage output on b-air and f-air, but I guess it won't happen anytime soon.

 

[BBC7]

B-air doesn't even have a 5th hit anymore. Only 4 weak hits that only do 2 damage each, and it has even more landing lag. This move got hindered so badly it's not even funny. Also its knockback isn't as good as it was before, just like f-air.

I'd be all in for more knockback/damage output on b-air and f-air, but I guess it won't happen anytime soon.

It has 5 hits/12 total damage, but 4 hits/9 total damage is more likely to connect. Test it yourself, I'm not making this up. Try training mode or something, it takes me around 20 tries to get it.

EDIT: A consistent way to get it seems to be fastfalling after the 4th hit. Of course, this doesn't help in the air.

 

[Deleted member]

It has 5 hits/12 total damage, but 4 hits/9 total damage is more likely to connect. Test it yourself, I'm not making this up. Try training mode or something, it takes me around 20 tries to get it.

EDIT: A consistent way to get it seems to be fastfalling after the 4th hit. Of course, this doesn't help in the air.

You're right, it is 5 if you count the landing hitbox. It's pretty much impossible to land all 5 hits if you're fighting a small character though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Brawl, you could technically get six hits if your opponent was trapped in the 5 aerial hits and the landing hit.

 

[BBC7]

You're right, it is 5 if you count the landing hitbox. It's pretty much impossible to land all 5 hits if you're fighting a small character though. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Brawl, you could technically get six hits if your opponent was trapped in the 5 aerial hits and the landing hit.

I'm not sure. Anyways, G&W needs a Bair that's about as powerful as Mega Man's Bair.

 

[Rakurai]

The thought of the turtle being a kill move is hilarious, though I'd personally be happy if they just reverted its damage and lag back to what it was in Brawl.

It's already extremely useful for getting stage spikes due to the lingering hitbox allowing you to punish the ledge grab vulnerability quite easily.

 

[Small Waves]

Using KO percentage thread as basis

Fair kills earlier (around 150% as opposed to 171%)
DSmash hitbox comes out earlier (frame 18~ maybe?)
Add a sweetspot for Fire just as the Parachute comes out that launches vertically. FROM THE PEOPLE WHO BROUGHT YOU DOWN THROW UP AIR COMES THE HIGHLY ANTICIPATED RIVETING SEQUEL: DOWN THROW UP B. COMING NEVER TO A PATCH NOWHERE CLOSE TO YOU

 

[TheMiSP]

Add a sweetspot for Fire just as the Parachute comes out that launches vertically.

Wow. Maybe it can be as a strong finisher like it is in PM?

 

[Small Waves]

Wow. Maybe it can be as a strong finisher like it is in PM?

Yes. Since his down throw launches opponents just high enough for up b to catch by the end at around 90-105% range, it could function as a finisher in theory.

 

[BBC7]

Here's my $0.02 after spending more time with Game & Watch. This will probably piss off people who think he's viable but I guess I'll still share it.

+ Jab comes out quicker. It's less because I feel it's slow and more because I hate having my jab combo interrupted by a faster jab. First hit should get the reward.
+ Increased knockback on last hit of Jab Combo. Proper DI usually makes the knockback not really that effective so increasing the knock-back would guarantee comfort when a Jab is landed.
+ F-Tilt does 12% instead of 10%. This is simply to make him less glass and more glass cannon.
+ Less ending lag on D-Tilt. It's not like it's super rewarding to land, so why make it punishable? It needs to be less laggy so that it can stop ground approaches without being terribly punishable if shielded such as Dash Attack.
+ First hit of U-Tilt has less knockback. This is to allow the second hit to connect more frequently.
+ Dash Attack is incapable of sour-spotting. The sourspot seems like it's there as a nuisance and is unnecessary in my opinion.
+ D-Smash is incapable of sour-spotting. I honestly think that a punished roll should be punished with maximum force, considering a lot of characters have the privilege of killing with D-Smash rather easily. Game & Watch already has a bad roll, why give him a D-Smash that doesn't kill often as well?
+ D-Smash is slightly quicker. This is to harass people who roll too often and won't really make much of a difference against people who rarely roll.
+ Bair does 17% and enough knockback to kill offstage. Gives Game & Watch a notable off-stage killing tool that players will want to avoid.
+ Fair is incapable of sour-spotting. Makes Fastfall Fair more reliable, as Fastfall Fair sometimes only does 6% as a result of pulling it out too early which we shouldn't have to worry about in the first place.
+ All 5 hits of Nair come out quicker. Gives Game & Watch a powerful SHFF tool to harass shields and combat grounded opponents with.
+ Dair is capable of slowfalling. This is purely for mindgame purposes.
+ Grab is faster and has more range. Mainly meant to make grabbing less punishable.
+ Back Throw kills at around 170%. A reliable kill option at very high percents in battles where hits have proven to be difficult to land.
- 9 does 25 damage and doesn't kill Mario until 60%. The payoff is to make Game & Watch's gimmicks much weaker.
- 7 has 50:50 chance of dropping apple and does 8 damage. "
- 6 has less knockback and does 8 damage. "
- 5 has less knockback and does 8 damage. "
- 1 does no damage, no knockback, deals 15 damage to the player and puts a flower on their head. This is to enforce the idea of a less gimmicky Game & Watch.
- Lower numbers have a higher chance of appearing than higher numbers. "
- Oil bucket can no longer be filled up with one projectile. "
- This makes the oil spill more damaging.
- D-Smash has decreased knockback. This prevents it from being a move you can just throw out and kill with as a result of the move being quicker.

This is my ideal idea of what Game & Watch should be, although I'm sure there are plenty of people who will disagree and say that I'm making the character too powerful. I'm just looking at it from a "What does Game & Watch need to be top-tier?" perspective. Simple, he needs reliable kill options, a reliable grab, safe attacks, and a good damage output.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's my $0.02 after spending more time with Game & Watch. This will probably piss off people who think he's viable but I guess I'll still share it.

+ Jab comes out quicker. It's less because I feel it's slow and more because I hate having my jab combo interrupted by a faster jab. First hit should get the reward.
+ Increased knockback on last hit of Jab Combo. Proper DI usually makes the knockback not really that effective so increasing the knock-back would guarantee comfort when a Jab is landed.
+ F-Tilt does 12% instead of 10%. This is simply to make him less glass and more glass cannon.
+ Less ending lag on D-Tilt. It's not like it's super rewarding to land, so why make it punishable? It needs to be less laggy so that it can stop ground approaches without being terribly punishable if shielded such as Dash Attack.
+ First hit of U-Tilt has less knockback. This is to allow the second hit to connect more frequently.
+ Dash Attack is incapable of sour-spotting. The sourspot seems like it's there as a nuisance and is unnecessary in my opinion.
+ D-Smash is incapable of sour-spotting. I honestly think that a punished roll should be punished with maximum force, considering a lot of characters have the privilege of killing with D-Smash rather easily. Game & Watch already has a bad roll, why give him a D-Smash that doesn't kill often as well?
+ D-Smash is slightly quicker. This is to harass people who roll too often and won't really make much of a difference against people who rarely roll.
+ Bair does 17% and enough knockback to kill offstage. Gives Game & Watch a notable off-stage killing tool that players will want to avoid.
+ Fair is incapable of sour-spotting. Makes Fastfall Fair more reliable, as Fastfall Fair sometimes only does 6% as a result of pulling it out too early which we shouldn't have to worry about in the first place.
+ All 5 hits of Nair come out quicker. Gives Game & Watch a powerful SHFF tool to harass shields and combat grounded opponents with.
+ Dair is capable of slowfalling. This is purely for mindgame purposes.
+ Grab is faster and has more range. Mainly meant to make grabbing less punishable.
+ Back Throw kills at around 170%. A reliable kill option at very high percents in battles where hits have proven to be difficult to land.
- 9 does 25 damage and doesn't kill Mario until 60%. The payoff is to make Game & Watch's gimmicks much weaker.
- 7 has 50:50 chance of dropping apple and does 8 damage. "
- 6 has less knockback and does 8 damage. "
- 5 has less knockback and does 8 damage. "
- 1 does no damage, no knockback, deals 15 damage to the player and puts a flower on their head. This is to enforce the idea of a less gimmicky Game & Watch.
- Lower numbers have a higher chance of appearing than higher numbers. "
- Oil bucket can no longer be filled up with one projectile. "
- This makes the oil spill more damaging.
- D-Smash has decreased knockback. This prevents it from being a move you can just throw out and kill with as a result of the move being quicker.

This is my ideal idea of what Game & Watch should be, although I'm sure there are plenty of people who will disagree and say that I'm making the character too powerful. I'm just looking at it from a "What does Game & Watch need to be top-tier?" perspective. Simple, he needs reliable kill options, a reliable grab, safe attacks, and a good damage output.

I agree with everything here, but I can't help but feel Judge would become useless.

I don't understand why you should be scolded for using judge, especially since landing a 9 is already harder than balls to do. Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying that G&W should rely entirely on luck. However, you should be rewarded if you're able to land a 9, which comes off a laggy move with a 1/9 chance of even happening in the first place. The same could be (kind of) said for 5, 6, and 7, and 6 isn't even that strong as it is. I would be okay with 1 as long as the flower doesn't push you up to 25% or something like that.

A faster D-Smash, IMO, is a godsend. Basically, everyone else has a quick D-smash except G&W it seems. Like you mentioned, G&W's roll is bad compared to everyone elses, and his ability to punish rollers isn't that great either.

B-air doing 17% would be amazing, but its doubled landing lag still kind of kills it. Also D-airs' landing lag makes it terrible for approaching, so being able to slowfall it adds a needed approach option.

A bigger grab range would definitely help G&W, and so would a reliable kill throw. His grab range is puny; you have to be pretty much touching the opponent in order to land it.

Overall, I'd welcome these change if they were added in 1.0.5.

 

[DaRedMage]

Okay, I think I got it.

+Fair does more damage and knock-back.
+Faster jab comber.
+Less lag on Chef and it does more damage.
+Bair has less ending lag and has much more knock-back making it a reliable kill move
+Down Smash no longer has a sour spot and is much more quicker.
+Down throw is how it was in Brawl with it's guaranteed follow ups and now can always follow up into a Down Smash making this a perfect kill option.
-Down Throw doesn't have much follow ups as before.
+Down tilt spikes and the wind-box sends enemies flying off to the side, it also does more knock-back.
+Up tilt has a bigger hit-box and does much less knock-back to help get the second hit
+Up Smash has a bigger hit box
+Forward Smash no longer has a sour spot and does slightly more damage.
+Nair does more damage, has more hits and has NO ending lag.
+Uair can kill better and sends enemies flying higher into the air.
+Dair can be canceled at any point during the animation, has a longer window of time for a spike, has less ending lag and has more knock-back.
+Dash attack does more damage.
+Grab has more range.
+Judge comes out almost instantly.
+9 is an isntant kill, it does 200% damage and sends them soaring and it's an automatic shield breaker if shielded.
+9 is less common.
+8 freezes opponents for longer.
+7 no longer drops an apple, it heals G&W for 13%.
+Bucket Braking returns, it comes out and ends instantly, no longer has the extra lag when you catch an energy projectile and can absorb physical projectiles.
-When the bucket absorbs physical projectiles the bucket oil does much less damage and knock-back.
+Bucket Braking has been buffed. Immediately after you get hit use the bucket and it will stop you right in your tracks.
+XXL Chef replaced by Parachute. Parachute does slightly more damage and knock-back and an now glide if you hold B further aiding to his recovery. It has a slightly bigger hit-box and does more damage and knock-back if the character is heavy. The heavier the character, the harder it hits.

Tell me what you guys think of this.

 

[TheMiSP]

One thing that bothers me.

Please let him use his second jump immediately after Trampoline Launch, kinda like PM.
It even looks like he can do that.

Also maybe modify that move? Instead of sending him into this "fall" that looks like his trophy pose after using Trampoline Launch, maybe just have him enter his regular fall animation, like after he uses his first jump/when he cancels his parachute on regular Fire when you press down.

 

[earthman888]

just give him something else besides smash attacks to kill foes with. By that I mean something reliable and not gimmicky.

 

[DaRedMage]

GW's killing power is so bad, that I have trouble killing until 150% and above. They fixed R.O.B's non-existent killing power, why not GW's? He was always kinda hard to finish the job with. At least with me.

 

[Furret24]

Here's mine for 1.10, since i'm so late on everything.
Key
+ Buff
- Nerf
* Change

+ F-Tilt does (10% -> 12%).
+ U-Tilt has more range.
+ D-Tilt has a new sweetspot for the first 2 frames of the hitbox that have very high horizontal knockback, similar to Melee G&W's D-Tilt. The sourspot is like his current one.
- D-Tilt has more endlag.
+ Dash Attack is stronger and does more damage (10% -> 11%), sourspot removed.
- Dash Attack has more endlag to compensate and prevent spamming.
+ F-Smash's sweetspot takes up much more of the hitbox, both the sweetspot and sourspot are stronger.
+ Lingering hitbox readded to F-Smash's.
+ F-Smash start-up time sped up from frame 17 to frame 13.
+ U-Smash is significantly stronger, has more range, and deals more damage (16% -> 18%).
+ U-Smash starts up faster, from frame 24 to frame 18, with the hitbox now lasting until invincibility runs out (frame 26).
- U-Smash stays out until frame 44 now, making it easier to punish.
+ D-Smash sweetspot and sourspot are stronger.
+ D-Smash now starts up on frame 8.
- D-Smash ends 4 frames later.
+ F-Air and B-Air now autocancel in short-hops.
+ N-Air, B-Air, U-Air, and D-Air all have less ending lag.
+ N-Air's final hit now has knockback comparable to his old N-Air.
- This prevents N-Air from being followed up with other moves however.
- N-Air has more end lag.
* F-Air functions how it used to.
+ B-Air does more damage (9% -> 15%), which is how much it did in Brawl.
+ U-Air's first hit connects better into the second hit at higher percents.
+ D-Air is much stronger, deals more damage (11% -> 14% midair, 3.5% -> 6% landing), and ends much sooner. It can also be slow-falled and has more priority.
+ Grab range increased.
- All throws now deal 4%.
+ D-Throw meteor smashes again.
+ U-Throw has decreased knockback, allowing it to combo into other moves.
+ Chef's food no longer disappears after going a set distance.
- All food does only 4% now.
+ Judge hitbox is bigger and lasts longer.
- Judge hitbox has more end lag, making it easier to punish if attack misses or a "1" is pulled.
- Judge "1" deals more self damage (12% -> 18%) and deals less damage (2% -> 1%).
+ Judge "3" now does more shield damage.
+ Judge "5" now does 4 hits of 4%, dealing 16% overall from 12%.
+ Judge "6" deals more knockback.
+ Judge "7" heals Mr. Game and Watch 13% instead of dropping and apple.
- Judge "7" does less knockback.
+ Judge "9" is now a true 1 Hit-KO, breaks shields in one hit, and has the same range and the other numbers.
- Judge "9" is rarer.
+ Bucket Braking is re-added.
- Bucket Braking only works once mid-air.
+ However, this means Bucket Jumping still works.

These buffs (and nerfs) will hopefully put the cannon into glass cannon for G&W, make him more viable, while still keeping him balanced. His smash attacks in paticular will all become safe, reliable, powerful, and quick finishers to help with his KO problems, while also opening up some new finishers (F-Air and N-Air are examples). Some of his moves are laggier or have other nerfs to compensate a little though. But since i'm not Sakarai, this will sadly never happen.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

These buffs (and nerfs) will hopefully put the cannon into glass cannon for G&W, make him more viable, while still keeping him balanced. His smash attacks in paticular will all become safe, reliable, powerful, and quick finishers to help with his KO problems, while also opening up some new finishers (F-Air, N-Air, B-Throw are examples). Some of his moves are laggier or have other nerfs to compensate a little though. But since i'm not Sakarai, this wil sadly never happen.

These changes essentially make G&W the new Sheik. I'm not really exaggerating, it's ridiculous!

Remember: Any buff to damage % is going to also buff the move's knockback. The last hit of turtle has INSANE KBG already, so buffing the damage is turning one of G&W's best and most safe moves into a EZ kill any time you land it at high percents. Oh my.

OH. I just saw Bucket Braking. G&W literally OP. I need a hug.

 

[JohnnyB]

I don't think game and watch needs much. Better grab range and slightly better hitboxes on some of his moves (though i think they fixed utilt in the last patch), and maybe some work on that dtilt (his worst move imo although the windbox gives it some potential).

I think if the dev team contiues giving gdubs gentle buffs, in a few patches he will be about right.

 

[Furret24]

These changes essentially make G&W the new Sheik. I'm not really exaggerating, it's ridiculous!

Remember: Any buff to damage % is going to also buff the move's knockback. The last hit of turtle has INSANE KBG already, so buffing the damage is turning one of G&W's best and most safe moves into a EZ kill any time you land it at high percents. Oh my.

OH. I just saw Bucket Braking. G&W literally OP. I need a hug.

Attempted to balance more so he's not the new Sheik. I just want him out of the low/bottom tiers.

 

[Luxent]

The struggle for me is that there isnt really a good mix up with G+W between his smashes and tilts.

I like to think of moves as a trifecta of Range, Speed, and Power. So if one attack has poor range, it should be super quick and/or strong. If one attack is super strong, give it tough range/slow speed to startup.


Drawing this back to game and watch, I find just attacking with him quite hard.

I feel as though his FSmash and FTilt are the same range and speed, and his U Smash and UTilt the same story.
At least give one of them large range so that it will add to his trickery.

Its sad, but it looks like G+W has been built around his gimmicks instead of fully realizing him as a serious competitor.

 

[NotAsian]

OK I think up tilt needs be faster and have a bigger hit box in front of him so it doesn't miss certain characters like FOX or diddy or sheik but I love the priority it has it beats most attacks

Also downtilt is my new favorite move it kills soo early and prevents people from grabbing the ledge like little mac and when people get popped up they panic haha

 

[Furret24]

I don't think game and watch needs much. Better grab range and slightly better hitboxes on some of his moves (though i think they fixed utilt in the last patch), and maybe some work on that dtilt (his worst move imo although the windbox gives it some potential).

I think if the dev team contiues giving gdubs gentle buffs, in a few patches he will be about right.

They didn't fix U-Tilt'd range. It's still crap, though they did change it's angle in 1.0.6.

D-Tilt is one of his best moves. It has good range, decent power, and that windbox.