Socialized Health Care.

[Maniclysane]

I was curious as to how the rest of the Proving Grounds felt about Socialized Health Care.

To me, there is nothing competitive about health care. Paying a company monthly, to let them decide whether or not you can get treatment is terrible. People can be forced into terrible health care companies because their job only gives coverage to whatever company they are working with. There are no other affordable options. The companies can choose how much you pay. Taking use of the services provided to you, by a health care company, increases the cost monthly. Even on top of that, the company can drop you from their coverage at their own will.

Whether or not you will take advantage of government health care, it will kick competition back into the health care market. The companies will have to compete with the government. Companies will no longer be able to raise your rates because you take advantage of your service, when the person can easily go back to public health care.

No matter what way you look at it, socialized health care is a win win for everyone.

 

[Sucumbio]

I have oftentimes wished for a public option, and now, at least in the house bill, we have one. will the senate follow suit? hopefully, but I actually doubt it... given olympia snowe's reaction "I will filibuster a bill that has a public option!" i'm like, what? Thought you were on our side. >< she can kiss her re-election goodbye.

now lets take the flip of this. in england, there are government doctors, etc that you can see, or you can go private. after speaking with a few citizens of england, the consensus was to go private, unless you wanted to wait 6 weeks for an appointment. and of course, the private health providers charge A LOT.

So ... it -could- work, but there will have to be some serious regulation on the private sector in terms of how they handle their business, or we'll see things fall apart fast. also a public option will demand that private hospitals start admitting public patients w/o the high costs.

Take my own fiasco. I went the ER w/stomach pains. b/c it was an "out-of-network" hospital, my coverage only paid 20% of the bill, my 1 hour stay (and all they did was shoot me w/pain medicine and wait, b/c they didn't know what was wrong, and finally I just left and it got better on its own) cost ME 3 grand. I won't be paying them, or course, cause if I had that kinda money, ... yeah.

SO yeah, hospitals can seem greedy, costs of health treatment can seem high... but the way it is now, at least if you have a "good" job, you can get away with being sick and it not costing you a fortune. a public option is supposed to make it like that for everyone, but in practice, it'll be tough without there being some revamping of the private sector as well.

you can just go ahead and call me a socialist now.

 

[Aesir]

Just because you show one or two people dissatisfied with their system doesn't mean it's bad. We have to look at all aspects here and people rarely do that. Especially Conservatives, they look at the minority and they say "LOOK THEY'RE NOT HAPPY!"

You could say the same thing for America, however the American system as a whole is horrible to begin with. It only works when you're insurance company feels like giving you health care. However if you look at most European systems not only are they more satisfactory but they're over all better. At least they're better at actually getting treatment unlike over here. Health care it's self is fine, if you can get it. However 46 million can't get it, and the people who have health insurance get slammed with their insurers weaseling their way out of payment.

I'm not saying we should go and copy Europe they all have different systems that work for them. We just need to find a system that works for us. I've been saying for a long time we should just give health insurance companies utility status. Insurance stays in business and people get the health care they deserve.

 

[Crimson King]

Just because you show one or two people dissatisfied with their system doesn't mean it's bad. We have to look at all aspects here and people rarely do that. Especially Conservatives, they look at the minority and they say "LOOK THEY'RE NOT HAPPY!"

You could say the same thing for America, however the American system as a whole is horrible to begin with. It only works when you're insurance company feels like giving you health care. However if you look at most European systems not only are they more satisfactory but they're over all better. At least they're better at actually getting treatment unlike over here. Health care it's self is fine, if you can get it. However 46 million can't get it, and the people who have health insurance get slammed with their insurers weaseling their way out of payment.

The problem with the health care debate is it ignores that fact that private health care is pretty great. I have a great plan that's cover NUMEROUS doctor's visits due to carpal tunnel treatment. It even paid $200 for an at home unit to continue therapy. On top of that, every job that is full comes with this type of health care (or one really similar) around here. So, for this argument, I really couldn't careless, as long as socialized health care doesn't mess with my plan. If it does, I will revolt.

 

[Sucumbio]

that's not a bad idea, actually, except that there'd be less profit for them to make. insurance companies like the way it is now because they can charge oodles for so-called group plans, and bank on people not getting sick. if we treat insurance as a utility, then they'd only get a small amount of money per person, vs a large amount. still thought that's going in the right direction.

the real problem is making insurance companies less greedy. we accomplish that, and we're getting somewhere.

when i left my last job, I elected COBRA benefits. What I was paying before was approx 32.00/month for good coverage. 15 dollar co-pays on any and all office visits. 500 dollar yearly deductible for treatments in-patient and out-patient. 100 co-pay for ER visits (in network, out of network 20% unless admitted proper, then 100% w/no co-pay). I even had experimental treatment access, air-lift if necessary, awesome script coverage.

After leaving COBRA lets me keep this for up to 18 months, at... "cover your ears, darlin'"

848.90/month.

32... to 850. That means my former employer was paying 818 bucks a month for me to have those benefits. !!!!!!!! srlsy tho? THAT much?

Now we begin to see why a public option is so difficult to swallow for so many. The rich especially *cough* republicans. Unless the insurance companies are forced to lower their overall costs for coverage, there's really no way to make a public option that's as worthwhile as a private one, like I had.

So then it becomes a give-n-take, public option = coverage of that of a 300/mo coverage for example. And so the insurer begins to take away aspects of coverage until they feel they're not being cheated out of money.

So, ultimately, it's the insurance companies that need to slow their row... and think hard about -why- they charge so much. My group plan was through AT&T so... it's no wonder they paid so much, they can afford it. This also plays into competition for employers. Work for ME, and you'll get THIS coverage. A public option could serve to reduce competition on this level, because you don't necessarily need to work at such-n-such a place, to be covered.

These such arguments have plagued capital hill for a year now, but at least the house has passed the bill and with the public option. so long as the senate does so we're home free, and not with triggers, but with immediate coverage for any and all that are currently uninsured.

 

[Aesir]

The problem with the health care debate is it ignores that fact that private health care is pretty great. I have a great plan that's cover NUMEROUS doctor's visits due to carpal tunnel treatment. It even paid $200 for an at home unit to continue therapy. On top of that, every job that is full comes with this type of health care (or one really similar) around here. So, for this argument, I really couldn't careless, as long as socialized health care doesn't mess with my plan. If it does, I will revolt.

Actually as a whole private insurance is pretty bad, I'm not really going to counter your anecdotal argument because I would have to actually see what plan you have and what company gives you your plan. You could have just been one of those lucky guys who fell through the cracks.

However I still think giving insurance companies utility status is probably the best way to go. Or maybe expanding medicare to the people who can't get insurance. Whenever America "socializes" something it acts as a safety net rather then a replacement. The only exceptions are the police, fire department and ambulance. Generally speaking though the public school system is just a big safety net for parents who can't send their child to private schools. I think that's what we need to do with health care, or just give those companies utility status. Since in most areas there's really only one insurance company anyway.

 

[Maniclysane]

Generally speaking though the public school system is just a big safety net for parents who can't send their child to private schools.

I couldn't disagree more, but that's a subject for another time.

The problem with the health care debate is it ignores that fact that private health care is pretty great.

You shouldn't make a broad generalization like that. Not all health care is that great. Your job ends up choosing it for you because in most cases, employers will be paying a portion of your health care. To afford this, they have to pay in bulk, meaning they have to use insurance from one company. That's only jobs that provide health care, too. Some jobs don't even offer health care coverage. Socialized health care would provide an easy alternative. I guess I have to agree with Aesir on the safety net idea with Socialized health care.

 

[Crimson King]

You shouldn't make a broad generalization like that. Not all health care is that great.

So, you counter a generalization, with a generalization? Smart debating there.

I'm basically fine with socialized health care as long as I don't have to pay into it. There is no reason to make any of the private health care users have to pay into a general system, and that is something that is being proposed.

 

[Maniclysane]

I'm basically fine with socialized health care as long as I don't have to pay into it. There is no reason to make any of the private health care users have to pay into a general system, and that is something that is being proposed.

I shouldn't have to pay into the fire department. It's not my house catching on fire.

Socialized health care will be coming out of everyones taxes. That's why it is called socialized health care.

 

[Sucumbio]

I'm basically fine with socialized health care as long as I don't have to pay into it. There is no reason to make any of the private health care users have to pay into a general system, and that is something that is being proposed.

EDIT: well I was wrong, heh. The public option will be treated as a large group plan whose premiums will be paid for by the actual subscribers. Therefore, you or I the normal tax payer will NOT have to pay others' health coverage, it'll be paid for by them (those who use it).