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SoCal Melee PR 12/29/2013 Update
- Thread starter HugS™
- Start date
MacD
Banned via Administration
i love how tafo get's it, but when he did that in the norcal thread everyone popped off like he was some big jerk
"HOW DARE SOMEONE HONESTLY SAY WHAT THEY THINK" that's what wrong with society IMO. people want honesty, then get honesty, then everyone blows up over the fact someone was harsh/honest
"HOW DARE SOMEONE HONESTLY SAY WHAT THEY THINK" that's what wrong with society IMO. people want honesty, then get honesty, then everyone blows up over the fact someone was harsh/honest
Yeah but just because someone's belief is an opinion doesn't mean it is automatically immune to criticism. You could still defend yourself.
McCain, people want honesty when they ask for it. When someone just randomly spews their opinion like bile over every thread, taking every opportunity to criticize everyone they can think of, and people don't care to hear it, it isn't that they don't want the honest truth. It's that they don't care to hear one person's opinion constantly trusted down their throat. You don't get to use the "he's just being honest" defense when no one asked for his honesty. A KKK member could walk into the middle of Compton and scream "Black people are ********" and then when he got his ass beat he couldn't just yell, "That's what wrong with society! People want honesty, then get honesty, then everyone blows up over the fact I was harsh/honest!" No one cares what his honestly wrong opinion is. No one asked for it. That's why we're allowed to get offended when he gives it. And since it's an opinion, not a fact, it isn't like there is an honest correct answer.
MacD
Banned via Administration
giving his honest opinion on what the PR should be (which is something crimson/others go around asking for) is hardly like the scenario you described. he's opening up a discussion, not going around being ignorant.
either way, my point is society teaches us to sugar coat things and honesty only comes in dire times or when they ask for it and i think that's stupid. like why should someone be offended when someone is being honest?? sure maybe tafo thinks he's ranked low there, but why should he pop off because one person gave an honest opinion and explained most all his points.
i found the way he did his list to be interesting, and although i question a couple of his opinions (connor by far the best teams player in that grouping???). why when having a discussion of the PR should i have to go "well #16 is pretty good, but i just think #15 is a bit better." instead of saying "i think he's mediocre at best"
either way, my point is society teaches us to sugar coat things and honesty only comes in dire times or when they ask for it and i think that's stupid. like why should someone be offended when someone is being honest?? sure maybe tafo thinks he's ranked low there, but why should he pop off because one person gave an honest opinion and explained most all his points.
i found the way he did his list to be interesting, and although i question a couple of his opinions (connor by far the best teams player in that grouping???). why when having a discussion of the PR should i have to go "well #16 is pretty good, but i just think #15 is a bit better." instead of saying "i think he's mediocre at best"
TaFoKiNtS
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2005
- Messages
- 1,027
It's a public forum that anyone can access. This isn't me in my private home with some person reminding me that I'm mediocre. Two different things, which is why the KKK analogy doesn't work.
That being said. People shouldn't be surprised if others respond harshly to P's posts since it is also a public forum.
I'm all for healthy reasoned discussion.
That being said. People shouldn't be surprised if others respond harshly to P's posts since it is also a public forum.
I'm all for healthy reasoned discussion.
shadrach kabango
Banned via Warnings
ive never played leeland in singles so i dont really have any thoughts. played him in teams but couldnt tell him from azn lep. tbh both felt free as hell, but obv that's doubles and an incredibly small sample size
D
Deleted member
Guest
every time i watch johnny it's like
holy f***
holy f***
nublet06
Smash Lord
mostly a great list.
Main issues
1. Hugs ranked too low
2. DEHF ranked too low
3. Eddy Mexico missing from 6th place
4. ROFL ranked too high
besides that it is great.
Shmooguy
Smash Champion
MY JOlN DATE THO
Shmooguy
Smash Champion
<3 Mango
PsychoMidget
Smash Lord
<3 me plz.
shadrach kabango
Banned via Warnings
who did a rookie beat? i recall him beating hugs, losing to rc, losing to sacasumoto.
nublet06
Smash Lord
im assuming he beat connor to make it out of pools at KOC. i dont remember anything notable besides that.
nublet06
Smash Lord
1. Fly
2. Lucky
3. S2J
4. Fiction
5. Westballz
6. Eduardo Mexicano
7. Hugs
8. Connor
9. Sung
10. DEHF
11. MacD
12. ROFL
13. Alex19
14. Tafo
15. Kira
16. Stab
17. Okami
18. A Rookie
19. J666
my opinion with attendance and level of caring i see people put in at tournaments. i would do 20 but i cant think of anyone else so that probly says something.
MacD should be alot higher but sometimes he doesnt even bother to enter singles so if he doesnt care i dont care lol.
and i dont know why i have Tafo so low but i feel like after Eddy it starts to get SUPER close in skill level all the way down.
2. Lucky
3. S2J
4. Fiction
5. Westballz
6. Eduardo Mexicano
7. Hugs
8. Connor
9. Sung
10. DEHF
11. MacD
12. ROFL
13. Alex19
14. Tafo
15. Kira
16. Stab
17. Okami
18. A Rookie
19. J666
my opinion with attendance and level of caring i see people put in at tournaments. i would do 20 but i cant think of anyone else so that probly says something.
MacD should be alot higher but sometimes he doesnt even bother to enter singles so if he doesnt care i dont care lol.
and i dont know why i have Tafo so low but i feel like after Eddy it starts to get SUPER close in skill level all the way down.
MacD
Banned via Administration
i only didn't enter singles at 1 tourney in the period by choice. and yesterday we were having an irvine group dinner and even so, i was sick and playing like crap so i wouldn't have wanted to enter
shadrach kabango
Banned via Warnings
dang im the only one who gives macd his props
nublet06
Smash Lord
its less about not giving him props and me givin larry mad props. but yeah looking at it again i would say macd is better than connor and sung.
shadrach kabango
Banned via Warnings
nah v few people can separate bias from their evaluation (obv no one does it totally) and the general sentiment is that macd is fraudulent and/or they dont like him personally
i think he's both fraudulent AND i dont like him personally but still recognize he's pretty good, particularly at things many people are pretty bad at
by far the biggest problem with the rankings is the total lack of transparency. ive heard macd criticize blur for that and while i didnt think much (or little) of it at the time, time is showing he has a point, and this is just another large data point towards proving that.
i think he's both fraudulent AND i dont like him personally but still recognize he's pretty good, particularly at things many people are pretty bad at
by far the biggest problem with the rankings is the total lack of transparency. ive heard macd criticize blur for that and while i didnt think much (or little) of it at the time, time is showing he has a point, and this is just another large data point towards proving that.
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Shmooguy
Smash Champion
No.
<3
Edit- BTW I want a falco head next to my name, I got notable wins with him he deserves some REKognition u know
MacD
Banned via Administration
rankings are always going to be a subject of complaints. and the bias is always there. for some reason on hugo's personal PR, i'm a tier below him/connor/sung aka i'm in the rofl/alex19/someone else tier. which i think is pretty absurd but whatever. (before i start drama with that, our records are at worst comparable this ranking period and if you see who we beat/lost to, i'm sure others would agree)
after this PR reveal, i've realized that we just catered to blur's idea for putting on the stream for 0 reason. After thinking about it, i feel that the PR should be publicly posted for SoCal to see/get upset about at least 1 day before it's announced on a stream. no one at the tourney really gets to see the PR or hear any discussion on stream. for the record, i like the idea of announcing the PR on stream, i just don't think it should be the primary way to announce it. it cause problems, no one at the tourney knows what it is, no one is going to want to go through the archives to find it and you have to wait for someone to go post it somewhere online for people to see.
this PR would have best been announced a day before (on facebook and smashboards), with written reason of the change in activity rule and that we still think mexico is good, it's just unfair to place them with 1 tourney in a 4 months span. there could also been points as to why hotly contested people were placed where they were or whatever else we wanted to say
also i'm more than numb to the hate/low thought on skill by this point. people who think i'm bad can play me and lose, or have a close set and be upset that i'm "bad" and did so well vs them
after this PR reveal, i've realized that we just catered to blur's idea for putting on the stream for 0 reason. After thinking about it, i feel that the PR should be publicly posted for SoCal to see/get upset about at least 1 day before it's announced on a stream. no one at the tourney really gets to see the PR or hear any discussion on stream. for the record, i like the idea of announcing the PR on stream, i just don't think it should be the primary way to announce it. it cause problems, no one at the tourney knows what it is, no one is going to want to go through the archives to find it and you have to wait for someone to go post it somewhere online for people to see.
this PR would have best been announced a day before (on facebook and smashboards), with written reason of the change in activity rule and that we still think mexico is good, it's just unfair to place them with 1 tourney in a 4 months span. there could also been points as to why hotly contested people were placed where they were or whatever else we wanted to say
also i'm more than numb to the hate/low thought on skill by this point. people who think i'm bad can play me and lose, or have a close set and be upset that i'm "bad" and did so well vs them
D
Deleted member
Guest
eddy mexico not being on the PR is easily the biggest travesty
shadrach kabango
Banned via Warnings
lol i personally saw one of the sets @ SSS where you beat him, last hit last stock
no idea how he could come away thinking you're on a tier below him
i was also curious why they (im assuming "they" is largely crimson at this point since he's 'revealing' it at his tourny) dropped 4 spots off the PR with no explanation or anything
not that i disagree -- since day one i've said less is more -- but i have memory of everyone disagreeing and putting forth blah blah blah as to why 20 was better
so if anything the reasons to have 20 still exist now, even more so. logic (lack thereof) for the loss
anywho clearly there's too much bias and too little perspective imo. while 100% accurate rankings are always impossible, one would hope for ~75%, right? this list is ~50%.
obv they arent open for revision or even discussion (even though crimson made an -- in hindsight -- lol post as if they were) so i'll stop beating a dead horse and keep it moving to areas that can provide me more bang for my buck
no idea how he could come away thinking you're on a tier below him
i was also curious why they (im assuming "they" is largely crimson at this point since he's 'revealing' it at his tourny) dropped 4 spots off the PR with no explanation or anything
not that i disagree -- since day one i've said less is more -- but i have memory of everyone disagreeing and putting forth blah blah blah as to why 20 was better
so if anything the reasons to have 20 still exist now, even more so. logic (lack thereof) for the loss
anywho clearly there's too much bias and too little perspective imo. while 100% accurate rankings are always impossible, one would hope for ~75%, right? this list is ~50%.
obv they arent open for revision or even discussion (even though crimson made an -- in hindsight -- lol post as if they were) so i'll stop beating a dead horse and keep it moving to areas that can provide me more bang for my buck
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I remember there was this one ranking period where a new list was posted with additional commentary for each player, I'd love to do that again (but maybe people might get too hurt?). Crimson doesn't do any panelist work he just wants to make the stream a little more entertaining.
I'm also not against having everyone posts their own lists so we can see what the 'popular' opinion is (and would probably influence how we look at things) and actually that's what people did (on fb) for the last ranking period. I know I'm pretty biased and sometimes the rest of us might overlook things too. I also wouldn't care if we just discussed everything online here on this thread too (it'd be less of a surprise in the end but I don't care about that at all, I'd rather have the best rankings list possible).
We couldn't think of anyone else who deserved that 17th spot (you were the closest P imo). For the inactivity rule, we want to adopt NorCal's practice. You're considered active if you go to a tournament every six weeks. Sorry for those taken off due to inactivity and it should have been made clear in the last rankings but while we were discussing the new PR, the inactivity rule didn't make any sense and we didn't want to wait 4 months to make the change so we went ahead with taking off the people who went to one tourney. If we did rank people who went to one tourney we would have to rank ken, coolkid, rickety, eddy, bimbo, stab, lovage only to have no one in SoCal play them at any of our locals.
MacD is good he can read jumps.
I'm also not against having everyone posts their own lists so we can see what the 'popular' opinion is (and would probably influence how we look at things) and actually that's what people did (on fb) for the last ranking period. I know I'm pretty biased and sometimes the rest of us might overlook things too. I also wouldn't care if we just discussed everything online here on this thread too (it'd be less of a surprise in the end but I don't care about that at all, I'd rather have the best rankings list possible).
We couldn't think of anyone else who deserved that 17th spot (you were the closest P imo). For the inactivity rule, we want to adopt NorCal's practice. You're considered active if you go to a tournament every six weeks. Sorry for those taken off due to inactivity and it should have been made clear in the last rankings but while we were discussing the new PR, the inactivity rule didn't make any sense and we didn't want to wait 4 months to make the change so we went ahead with taking off the people who went to one tourney. If we did rank people who went to one tourney we would have to rank ken, coolkid, rickety, eddy, bimbo, stab, lovage only to have no one in SoCal play them at any of our locals.
MacD is good he can read jumps.
shadrach kabango
Banned via Warnings
idc about not ranking the one-and-done guys, like i said earlier thats a philosophical difference ive already resigned to agree to disagree about
but the whole "lets rank 20 guiz" thing was years ago, well before evo/smash doc caused the scene to blow up. well before guiz like squid (who was AWOL for a long time), rc (who just never went to tournies), boss (he was awol for a long time), HAZE (barwl), stud (he was a newbie) and a bunch of other solid players (if not up-and-comers in some of those cases) burst onto the scene
i know ranking them WOULD be inspiring, both for them and the people on their level who didnt get ranked
plus 16 is a weird number.
LOLed @ your last sentence. does he still do the thing where if he's in the corner and you just do a tight dash dance close to him he always dash attacks you?
but the whole "lets rank 20 guiz" thing was years ago, well before evo/smash doc caused the scene to blow up. well before guiz like squid (who was AWOL for a long time), rc (who just never went to tournies), boss (he was awol for a long time), HAZE (barwl), stud (he was a newbie) and a bunch of other solid players (if not up-and-comers in some of those cases) burst onto the scene
i know ranking them WOULD be inspiring, both for them and the people on their level who didnt get ranked
plus 16 is a weird number.
LOLed @ your last sentence. does he still do the thing where if he's in the corner and you just do a tight dash dance close to him he always dash attacks you?
^Of course. And he overshoots it just enough.
I was thinking if we did rank someone after Rookie there'd be a lot of people within that skill group. What would the threshold be? Especially when they all pretty much lose and beat each other (Squid, RCizzle, Nips, JoeJoe, Haze, Dendy, Saca, etc...) except for P (who only loses to good ranked players). I wouldn't want to rank up to 20 if #21 was just as inconsistent. Everyone ranked currently can beat other ranked players somewhat consistently and rarely if ever drop sets to non ranked players.
I was thinking if we did rank someone after Rookie there'd be a lot of people within that skill group. What would the threshold be? Especially when they all pretty much lose and beat each other (Squid, RCizzle, Nips, JoeJoe, Haze, Dendy, Saca, etc...) except for P (who only loses to good ranked players). I wouldn't want to rank up to 20 if #21 was just as inconsistent. Everyone ranked currently can beat other ranked players somewhat consistently and rarely if ever drop sets to non ranked players.
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shadrach kabango
Banned via Warnings
why not? #THESALT. havent you seen how much salt tafo and co.'s ranking caused? salt = motivation = increased skill.
in the end the exercise would, if nothing else, only increase the skill of the PR's ability. healthy discourse is good
everyone's gonna have their biases, sure. but it's less about having those biases and more about putting them into words, justifying them, rationalizing them. putting ambiguous emotions and intuitions into language is a good thing; improves perception and objectivity.
off my head i think squid, rc, boss and haze have the most impressive results/consistency, but i dunno for sure. or probably j666.
in the end the exercise would, if nothing else, only increase the skill of the PR's ability. healthy discourse is good
everyone's gonna have their biases, sure. but it's less about having those biases and more about putting them into words, justifying them, rationalizing them. putting ambiguous emotions and intuitions into language is a good thing; improves perception and objectivity.
off my head i think squid, rc, boss and haze have the most impressive results/consistency, but i dunno for sure. or probably j666.
J666 would def be in. Squid lost to Combofest losers bracket Arcadian (after Combo lost to Crimson in winners). I also forgot about Leeland he'd make it in too. Dendy beat Toph (who beat Okami in the same tourney) and Rookie. TKD looks really good and would also be in if he's gunna go to more tournies.
Salt is strong... I care a lot about consistency and peak wins (beating top ranked players). But still you have a really good point and it could be better with top 20.
Salt is strong... I care a lot about consistency and peak wins (beating top ranked players). But still you have a really good point and it could be better with top 20.
shadrach kabango
Banned via Warnings
tkd, lil fumi, leeland, j666. that's actually pretty stronk. didnt know dendy beat albert. him over tkd since tkd went to like one tourny. hmmm interesting
SacaSuMoto
Smash Journeyman
TKD was also at KOC3 and beat Toph in rd 2 pools
nublet06
Smash Lord
tkd is good but i think that was a forfeit. toph quit after losing a few sets. i might be wrong tho.
MacD
Banned via Administration
any number we stop at is arbitrary in the end. i think it was me who first suggested that we just end at A Rookie even if the number is "weird."
like sung said, the next group of people who you would expect to be ranked is about as big of a mess as our top 10+
like sung said, the next group of people who you would expect to be ranked is about as big of a mess as our top 10+
Rockleeland
Smash Rookie
I heard toph rage quit out of the tournament after losing to me in round 2 pools.
shadrach kabango
Banned via Warnings
yeah toph i normally have a lot of respect for u but that is the scrubbiest thing ever. watch out or you'll join the MDZ club of mental scrubs.
fwiw i'd still count that as a win. no johns fo lyfe
fwiw i'd still count that as a win. no johns fo lyfe
thespymachine
Smash Ace
Hello SoCal, Melee n00b here.
Just have a couple comments regarding the seeding at the previous SSS: http://challonge.com/SmashSundaysSingles11
And these questions may be (partially) disregarded, if you did pools to seed the bracket.
- Why are the two highest ranked players at the tournament (Lucky - #2, S2J - #3)? This means they would meet (potentially) in Winner's Semis, when they should meet in WF. (also, one side of the bracket had 6 ranked players, while the other had 4)
- It's a 24 player bracket, with 10 ranked players in it. Meaning, 8 of them should have had a bye first round - but only 7 did. And the top 8 of those ranked players should have got byes (Lucky, S2J, Connor, Sung, MacD, ROFL, HugS, and Okami), but only 6 of them did [Okami got the non-deserved bye, and Connor and MacD deserved byes but didn't get them].
Here's what you would think the seeding to be like: http://challonge.com/tournaments/bracket_generator?ref=uj24LaJapS
The results could have been drastically different, considering S2J would have faced Sung and Okami later in bracket, etc, etc.
I was baffled by the seeding and really curious to the reasonings.
With the right reasons though, all my comments could be null.
Just have a couple comments regarding the seeding at the previous SSS: http://challonge.com/SmashSundaysSingles11
And these questions may be (partially) disregarded, if you did pools to seed the bracket.
- Why are the two highest ranked players at the tournament (Lucky - #2, S2J - #3)? This means they would meet (potentially) in Winner's Semis, when they should meet in WF. (also, one side of the bracket had 6 ranked players, while the other had 4)
- It's a 24 player bracket, with 10 ranked players in it. Meaning, 8 of them should have had a bye first round - but only 7 did. And the top 8 of those ranked players should have got byes (Lucky, S2J, Connor, Sung, MacD, ROFL, HugS, and Okami), but only 6 of them did [Okami got the non-deserved bye, and Connor and MacD deserved byes but didn't get them].
Here's what you would think the seeding to be like: http://challonge.com/tournaments/bracket_generator?ref=uj24LaJapS
The results could have been drastically different, considering S2J would have faced Sung and Okami later in bracket, etc, etc.
I was baffled by the seeding and really curious to the reasonings.
With the right reasons though, all my comments could be null.
nublet06
Smash Lord
Pools is the biggest factor. Blur does switch things up from time to time tho. Mike haze earned his first seed in pools for example.
Pools are however seeded using the rankings
Pools are however seeded using the rankings
MacD
Banned via Administration
me and connor didn't get first seeds, so we didn't get byes
as for why the 8 first seeds were placed where they were....... who knows. me and a few other people thought that the seeding in that regard was very questionable. IMO it looks like Sung has top seed, ROFL/Hugs have the fight for 4th, and lucky/s2j have 2nd/3rd. or it looks like lucky/s2j have 1st/4th seeds and Sung has 2nd and ROFL/Hugs fight for 3rd (which makes no sense)
with the way the tourney turned out the seeding doesn't look questionable, but considering all the past results it does.
as for why the 8 first seeds were placed where they were....... who knows. me and a few other people thought that the seeding in that regard was very questionable. IMO it looks like Sung has top seed, ROFL/Hugs have the fight for 4th, and lucky/s2j have 2nd/3rd. or it looks like lucky/s2j have 1st/4th seeds and Sung has 2nd and ROFL/Hugs fight for 3rd (which makes no sense)
with the way the tourney turned out the seeding doesn't look questionable, but considering all the past results it does.
thespymachine
Smash Ace
Alright, it all makes sense now.
Like I said, pools would have changed everything. And if they were trying to mix it up a bit in the pools the seeding makes even more sense.
Like I said, pools would have changed everything. And if they were trying to mix it up a bit in the pools the seeding makes even more sense.
shadrach kabango
Banned via Warnings
arian is confirmed terrible at seeding imo, it's an open secret amongst the community. also seems to be a control freak, as well as highly sensitive to criticism.
i'll also use this opportunity to clamor for bracket pools. hell, what is the point of an overarching ranking of socal if we don't actually use that in tournaments?
i propose ranked players getting placed directly into 24- (or 32-) man bracket. bracket pools for everyone else.
i'll also use this opportunity to clamor for bracket pools. hell, what is the point of an overarching ranking of socal if we don't actually use that in tournaments?
i propose ranked players getting placed directly into 24- (or 32-) man bracket. bracket pools for everyone else.