So Let's Talk About the Waifu Factor

[Downshift]

Far from it. I was merely pointing out that saying that one of her defining personality traits is being a ruler is proof as to how little they gave us to work with as far as character identity. It's not a character trait, but just a position as far as Smash goes. Yes, in Twilight Princess we CERTAINLY see her put the lives of her people above her position and their possible freedom. She sacrifices her life because it means that Hyrule can be saved. Yes, those are fantastic examples of how she is a "queenly ruler", but we get none of that in Smash. The label "queenly ruler" can be applied to a dozen other Zeldas in the franchise (including Ultimate's Zelda). In fact, that "trait" is exactly what is wrong with her in previous Smash games. In Brawl/4, they use that stoic nature as an excuse to make her essentially just a mannequin with magic sparkles. This is coming from someone who got their start in Brawl/PM, who absolutely loathed how bland Zelda was. That's why I always used to use the black recolor, because at least that conveyed that it was "DARK" Zelda. (I also modded in Skyward Sword Zelda, but that's not relevant to the discussion). Which, as much of a meme as playing a DARK character is, it added more substance than anything the devs gave the character as far as personality expression.

You're getting hung up on the "ruler" part when the main point was "queenly", which is a a term I've used on its own before in this topic. That's also why I gave a list of related synonym traits such as stoic, regal, distinguished. "Ruler" was just a synonym for "Princess" because I don't want to type "princess" 500 times in this forum.
Think Julie Andrews in The Princess Diaries. That's "queenly". It describes the maturity and distinction with which you carry yourself, not your acting functional rank in a monarchy.

Maybe you didn't know this since you started with Brawl/PM, but Nintendo didn't use her calm and mature nature as excuse to make her exactly how she was in Melee's OoT version of Zelda, which preceded Brawl. Her animations and attacks were all graphically upgraded direct carryovers from the previous game. Even her voice and yells during attacks are the same between Melee/Brawl/WiiU. I'd even argue that the OoT/TP voice sounds younger than her new one (should probably look up the VA).

Now, I will add perspective that even I think that Ultimate's version of Zelda is flawed. In fact, I have a firm opinion about how Zelda's kit is flawed and how those flaws negatively affect her character identity (Ocarina of Time special moves that Zelda never had, having two versions of the same aerial negatively affecting her neutral-game, a random Phantom stapled onto those OoT abilities, ect.). I'm not just fanboying over new Zelda, but I am of the opinion that it is a step in the right direction.

Probably off topic but I pretty much agree with everything here.
Zelda transforming into Sheik was the best and most uniquely accurate thing about her and why I chose the pair in Melee. I'm not sure what other abilities they could have given her besides the goddess powers, but since she was retroactively linked to them via her lineage as the goddess Hylia (spoilers?), I guess it at least makes some sense if they can't give Link those powers. (if Link had Din's Fire as an AoE attack like in OoT, I'd main him in a second). Still, it seems like they didn't know much about those powers when they made them into fighting game moves. Much like Lucario and his Aura mechanic or even aura effect on his hands and attacks when Aura is really just a form of energy detection.
But as far as the Phantom and her double lightning kicks - 100% agree. She needs some type of multi-hit or sweeping arc type aerial to replace either her Fair or Bair, honestly don't care which at this point. Ganon got entirely new smash attacks, so this wasn't out of the question going into Ultimate. And like I've said in this forum before, as good as Phantom is now, I'd still trade it away in a heartbeat to transform into Sheik again. There's no better way to take control of neutral than to transform into a freaking ninja.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Maybe you didn't know this since you started with Brawl/PM, but Nintendo didn't use her calm and mature nature as excuse to make her exactly how she was in Melee's OoT version of Zelda, which preceded Brawl. Her animations and attacks were all graphically upgraded direct carryovers from the previous game. Even her voice and yells during attacks are the same between Melee/Brawl/WiiU. I'd even argue that the OoT/TP voice sounds younger than her new one (should probably look up the VA).

Of course I know that, but the difference between that Zelda and Brawl/4's was exactly what you said, her special moves. Those conveyed a personality of their own since they were from the game that the iteration of Zelda was too. She actively uses magic in OoT (teleportation, light beams), so the special moves weren't much a stretch. The issue I have with TP Zelda in Smash is that she has NOTHING that exemplifies her as a character other than how she looks, as you said she is a shadow of OoT Melee Zelda. Even now Zelda is this confuddled mishmash of Zeldas to the point that, on paper, she has little personality left.

• Breath of the Wild Final Smash (spoilers??)
• Phantom Hourglass down-b (is she technically two Zeldas?)
• OoT spells
• Link to the Past aesthetic

What somehow manages to pull it all together, however, is the personality they gave her. Her happy-go-lucky nature pulls everything together in a way that makes you HAPPY about her mishmash. You could imagine her giggling and saying "Yeah, I can do THIS too!" Since her kit is visually similar to 4, it's really easy to say that the TP Zelda in that game looked and felt like a ton of sketchpages thrown together. She was stoic and didn't offer ANYTHING of her own, just a Dark Link shadow of a character that we are supposed to know and love.

I wish they would just give her a COMPLETE overhaul. There have been fifteen Zelda games since OoT (I'm counting Hyrule Warriors because of fan appeal) and I am CERTAIN that she has displayed enough of her own abilities to make a true iteration of Zelda. This character is stifled by her own conventions of character design that they honestly need to ditch almost everything and start over. Each and every Smash game deepens my disappointment that this character is imprisoned in Sakurai and Bandai-Namco's complacency.

 

[Downshift]

What somehow manages to pull it all together, however, is the personality they gave her. Her happy-go-lucky nature pulls everything together in a way that makes you HAPPY about her mishmash. You could imagine her giggling and saying "Yeah, I can do THIS too!" Since her kit is visually similar to 4, it's really easy to say that the TP Zelda in that game looked and felt like a ton of sketchpages thrown together. She was stoic and didn't offer ANYTHING of her own, just a Dark Link shadow of a character that we are supposed to know and love.

I have always hated the giggling, trolly types in Smash like Peach's "Oh, did I just IMPALE YOU THROUGH THE STOMACH with my cute little parasol? Oopsie! Teehee!" Peach was the princess type I could never take seriously, like a ballerina prancing around an NFL or Rugby field, just so giddy that they're there when they actually have no place there. Like the opposite type of Princess from someone like Lucina. That's why I liked Palutena and OoT and TP Zelda. They actually felt like they took the game seriously and weren't treating it like an episode of Looney Tunes (See also: Luigi).
This new ALBW Zelda isn't as bad as Peach, but she went from being more like Lucina to being more like Peach, and that's a regression, IMO. Though I do need to say, Peach is still 200x worse. Man, I hate it. Daisy at least isn't a complete shameless ditz.

TP Zelda felt like Lucina in an elegant dress to me. Both with very tragic pasts that stranded them in deslolate, lost futures, very calm and serious in nature while being willing to do and risk anything for their friends, family and kingdoms. I wonder if all the critics TP Zelda would also apply that same level of aversion to Lucina, despite how popular she is, despite having the least "personality" of most characters in Awakening...

Also, while this is a minor opinion, the other thing I prefer about OoT and TP Zelda are their visual accuracy to their source material. Melee Zelda looks very graphically similar to the 3D Zelda that pinned down beast Ganon with her huge magic blast (which should totally be a move), and TP Zelda looks like she did in her cutscenes. Sure she didn't giggle and dance around while fighting Ganon on horseback or while her castle crumbled to the ground engulfed in twilight, but it's loyal to the source material.
This new Zelda was based off of like two promo photos from ALttP if you wanna say she's from that game. This is what she actually looked like in that game:

I'd say she looks more like ALBW Zelda if not only due to the higher graphic detail of the newer game, but she still looks drastically different. Like they took TP Zelda's 22 year old body and just reskinned her to not look like a 9 year old:


This is why I would have preferred BotW Zelda, because at least then it would feel like I'm playing a Zelda from an actual game I know. This Zelda feels like she's from a game that I've never played before. There's no familiarity or call back to other games outside of Smash, which is part of the reason I choose my mains Smash in general.

I wish they would just give her a COMPLETE overhaul. There have been fifteen Zelda games since OoT (I'm counting Hyrule Warriors because of fan appeal) and I am CERTAIN that she has displayed enough of her own abilities to make a true iteration of Zelda. This character is stifled by her own conventions of character design that they honestly need to ditch almost everything and start over. Each and every Smash game deepens my disappointment that this character is imprisoned in Sakurai and Bandai-Namco's complacency.

This would be best I think yeah, but there's probably a 5% chance it would ever happen. They might change moves here and there like her Phantom, but the effort it would take to overhaul her could be used for a whole new DLC character instead, possibly promoting a new Nintendo game or something with a more lucrative return for Nintendo's dev investment. I'd also be worried that she might end up worse than this version, which I think is the strongest, most viable Zelda we've ever had.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

I have always hated the giggling, trolly types in Smash like Peach's "Oh, did I just IMPALE YOU THROUGH THE STOMACH with my cute little parasol? Oopsie! Teehee!" Peach was the princess type I could never take seriously, like a ballerina prancing around an NFL or Rugby field, just so giddy that they're there when they actually have no place there. Like the opposite type of Princess from someone like Lucina. That's why I liked Palutena and OoT and TP Zelda. They actually felt like they took the game seriously and weren't treating it like an episode of Looney Tunes (See also: Luigi).
This new ALBW Zelda isn't as bad as Peach, but she went from being more like Lucina to being more like Peach, and that's a regression, IMO. Though I do need to say, Peach is still 200x worse. Man, I hate it. Daisy at least isn't a complete shameless ditz.

TP Zelda felt like Lucina in an elegant dress to me. Both with very tragic pasts that stranded them in deslolate, lost futures, very calm and serious in nature while being willing to do and risk anything for their friends, family and kingdoms. I wonder if all the critics TP Zelda would also apply that same level of aversion to Lucina, despite how popular she is, despite having the least "personality" of most characters in Awakening...

Also, while this is a minor opinion, the other thing I prefer about OoT and TP Zelda are their visual accuracy to their source material. Melee Zelda looks very graphically similar to the 3D Zelda that pinned down beast Ganon with her huge magic blast (which should totally be a move), and TP Zelda looks like she did in her cutscenes. Sure she didn't giggle and dance around while fighting Ganon on horseback or while her castle crumbled to the ground engulfed in twilight, but it's loyal to the source material.
This new Zelda was based off of like two promo photos from ALttP if you wanna say she's from that game. This is what she actually looked like in that game:
View attachment 189656
I'd say she looks more like ALBW Zelda if not only due to the higher graphic detail of the newer game, but she still looks drastically different. Like they took TP Zelda's 22 year old body and just reskinned her to not look like a 9 year old:
View attachment 189657

This is why I would have preferred BotW Zelda, because at least then it would feel like I'm playing a Zelda from an actual game I know. This Zelda feels like she's from a game that I've never played before. There's no familiarity or call back to other games outside of Smash, which is part of the reason I choose my mains Smash in general.


This would be best I think yeah, but there's probably a 5% chance it would ever happen. They might change moves here and there like her Phantom, but the effort it would take to overhaul her could be used for a whole new DLC character instead, possibly promoting a new Nintendo game or something with a more lucrative return for Nintendo's dev investment. I'd also be worried that she might end up worse than this version, which I think is the strongest, most viable Zelda we've ever had.

And I guess that this kit isn't so inherently flawed that a buff couldn't put her into the limelight. Yes, it would be flawed, but that only means that they need to frontload power into some aspect of the kit. Imagine if dash attack's KB angle was changed so that it could crossup shield and it popped people straight up for a guaranteed nair/up-air. Or if nair had immense horizontal disjoint that enabled her to zone. Would we be having this conversation if Zelda was strong? Probably not. We would only be discussing the aesthetics with no regard as to how much of a colossal failure her theme has been in every installment except Melee.

As for me, I guess the reason why I dislike TP Zelda's design, once boiled down, is because one of the most iconic characters in gaming requires the context of her game for her TP character traits to show. For someone who has not played Twilight Princess, she is indeed an empty shell. At least ALttP (there's a post about how it's not actually ALBW) Zelda has a clearly defined personality, with a lot of emotion placed into her attacks (screams, yells, facial expressions).

Your point about Lucina is not lost on me, but at least her gameplay creates a narrative outside of the context of her game. She dresses like Marth, has his moves albeit with less finesse (a LOT more effort put into that vocal foley, no tipper), and dons a mask for one of her taunts. She must disguise herself as Marth!

Brawl tried to do what you mentioned, adding anger into most character expressions to reach towards realism. Yoshi looked asinine, Link was just ugly, and Mario was so incredibly stupid. I'm fine with characters like Peach existing, so long as there is a clear purpose for her personality. Peach is composed and ladylike to her dying breath, for one of royal blood to show any semblance of strain would be a breach of etiquette. Zelda is a princess so often put in the backline that she is excited and full of glee to be able to use her power. It makes sense to me, and is clearly conveyed. I apologize if I'm rambling, but hey at least I added paragraph breaks!

 

[Downshift]

As for me, I guess the reason why I dislike TP Zelda's design, once boiled down, is because one of the most iconic characters in gaming requires the context of her game for her TP character traits to show. For someone who has not played Twilight Princess, she is indeed an empty shell. At least ALttP (there's a post about how it's not actually ALBW) Zelda has a clearly defined personality, with a lot of emotion placed into her attacks (screams, yells, facial expressions).

Your point about Lucina is not lost on me, but at least her gameplay creates a narrative outside of the context of her game. She dresses like Marth, has his moves albeit with less finesse (a LOT more effort put into that vocal foley, no tipper), and dons a mask for one of her taunts. She must disguise herself as Marth!

That's the thing right there though.

If we're talking about their personalities...
Lucina in Smash *is* the same Lucina from Fire Emblem Awakening.
Zelda in Brawl/Smash4 *is* the same Zelda from Twilight Princess.

Zelda in Ultimate *is not* the same Zelda from A Link to the Past.
Sure she's happier, and cheerier in comparison to the canon TP Zelda, but she's not the same as her base game. Not even close. In fact, I can't even think of a game outside of SS (yeah I see your ava) where Zelda is a giggly cheery girl like this Smash iteration. She just doesn't fit the source game. Like I said, it just feels like they made an entirely new character that's never been in any Nintendo game before, gave her TP Zelda's co-ed frame and ALBW Zelda's dress and called her ALttP Zelda. Much like your point about her moveset, this amalgamation of her visual appearance and personality just feels all wrong to me. She may as well be Zoey, Zelda's little sister.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

That's the thing right there though.

If we're talking about their personalities...
Lucina in Smash *is* the same Lucina from Fire Emblem Awakening.
Zelda in Brawl/Smash4 *is* the same Zelda from Twilight Princess.
In fact, I can't even think of a game outside of SS (yeah I see your ava) where Zelda is a giggly cheery girl like this Smash iteration. She just doesn't fit the source game. She may as well be Zoey, Zelda's little sister.

Lucina is definitely Lucina, but Sm4sh/Brawl TP Zelda isn't the Zelda from Twilight Princess. Her only source material is her voice and looks, but none of the animations fit her. There is no poise, with many animations causing her to completely throw her body around. Her regal element from TP is abandoned in favor of keeping Melee's spellcaster hand poses and twirls. If it WAS TP Zelda, then we would have seen some workarounds in the animation department. Like I said earlier, she would have the poise of royalty, not that of a princess whose alter ego is a ninja who isn't afraid to throw some kicks.

And I've already admitted that every iteration, excluding Melee's but including the current one, has its flaws. I'm not arguing that they don't. While this new Zelda is something you would find in a fanfic, at least she has had a few animation tweaks and a personality adjustment to suit her throwing her body around. Personally, I would have been PERFECTLY satisfied if they had reverted Zelda to an HD version of Ocarina of Time's princess.

Oh, and as for happy-go-lucky Zeldas, Wind Waker (*cryptic wink*), Minish Cap (*shoves Link into carnival game*), Breath of the Wild ("go on, taste the frog, Link!") all come to mind.

 

[Downshift]

That's why I said if we're talking about their personalities.
The way you know TP Zelda's personality matches her game is because all criticisms of her personality are actually criticisms of Twilight Princess's theme.
If we're talking about animations also, Ultimate Zelda's animations are not from ALttP either. So taking those animations that aren't from her source game, and matching the personality to those animations still means neither her personality or animations match her source game. It's not any more accurate than TP Zelda is.

So yeah, while this new redesign in Ultimate isn't bad for "Zoey, 2nd Princess of Hyrule", I still would have preferred BotW Zelda (blue ceremonial dress), Skyward Sword Zelda, or an HD remake of OoT Zelda.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I'd say she looks more like ALBW Zelda if not only due to the higher graphic detail of the newer game, but she still looks drastically different. Like they took TP Zelda's 22 year old body and just reskinned her to not look like a 9 year old:
View attachment 189657

Does THIS look like a 9-year to you?!

 

[Downshift]

Wow, at first I thought you caught me in a typo, but no, you actually did quote me saying...

they took TP Zelda's 22 year old body and just reskinned her to NOT look like a 9 year old

In other words, they took Twilight Zelda's canonically 20-something model and put ALttP/ALBW Zelda's dress and hair color on her so she would retain her 20-something proprotions and NOT look prepubescent. Had they kept ALttP/ALBW Zelda's frame and proportions from either of her in game appearances, then yes she would look 9 year old.

I'm glad they didn't, because I still vastly prefer Ultimate's version of ALttP/ALBW Zelda to Winder Waker's Toon Zelda.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Wow, at first I thought you caught me in a typo, but no, you actually did quote me saying...

In other words, they took Twilight Zelda's canonically 20-something model and put ALttP/ALBW Zelda's dress and hair color on her so she would retain her 20-something proportions and NOT look prepubescent. Had they kept ALttP/ALBW Zelda's frame and proportions from either of her in game appearances, then yes she would look 9 year old.

View attachment 190294

View attachment 190293

I'm glad they didn't, because I still vastly prefer Ultimate's version of ALttP/ALBW Zelda to Winder Waker's Toon Zelda.

Ugh, I forgot how gross that Zelda looks. She looks like a newborn baby playing dressup.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Wow, at first I thought you caught me in a typo, but no, you actually did quote me saying...

In other words, they took Twilight Zelda's canonically 20-something model and put ALttP/ALBW Zelda's dress and hair color on her so she would retain her 20-something proprotions and NOT look prepubescent. Had they kept ALttP/ALBW Zelda's frame and proportions from either of her in game appearances, then yes she would look 9 year old.

View attachment 190294

View attachment 190293

I'm glad they didn't, because I still vastly prefer Ultimate's version of ALttP/ALBW Zelda to Winder Waker's Toon Zelda.

So, I read wrong?

ALttP Zelda looks in her teens, to be honest. 16 is a fair estimate.

Should've gone with Four Swords Zelda.

 

[channel_KYX]

Should've gone with Four Swords Zelda.

It's a shame that 4S is not more represented. I like that look.

While we discuss the different Zeldas... I know we usually don't speak about DS games, but Spirit Track's Zelda I liked a lot, especially personality-wise. Cheeky, snarky. And you finally got some time to bond with her (instead of seeing her for 2 mins at the beginning and end of the game).

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Palutena will always be my Smash waifu. But my Zelda waifu would have to be Skyward Sword Zelda.

Does THIS look like a 9-year to you?!

They scaled that Zelda up and turned her into a full grown waifu.

 

[WumboTheSecond]

Her new design has definitely met with positive reception. Overwhelming amounts, even. When Ultimate releases, I'd like to see Zelda be used more often, both online and offline.

I still kind of prefer Twilight Princess Zelda. I can see the target appeal of the Link to The Past style but to me Twilight Princess Zelda will always be best girl

If you think TP is worse than literal garbage skyward sword then your opinion doesn't matter

I agree so much with this statement. Skyward Sword originally had a lot going for it but come release time it was a mess

 

[channel_KYX]

I agree so much with this statement. Skyward Sword originally had a lot going for it but come release time it was a mess

Care to elaborate? It certainly wasn't perfect, but all in all, I had fun playing.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

I agree so much with this statement. Skyward Sword originally had a lot going for it but come release time it was a mess

Compare it to Wind Waker, which is unpolished and obviously unfinished. There are two scrapped dungeons that are painted over with some horribly-paced story progression: the cursed Great Sea and Triforce collection. Hyrule was also SUPPOSED to be a second overworld (in the game's files there are ship anchors that warp you to the surface). That being said, the few dungeons in the game are colorful and unique. They served as the basis for Skyward Sword's dungeons. In fact, at least one of the two unused dungeons from Wind Waker is IN Skyward Sword. The Ancient Cistern being so dependent on the sailcloth (Deku Leaf), water levels, and the whip (Grappling Hook), as well as its aesthetic and introduction of a ReDead-esque enemy heavily suggest that it is indeed one of the missing WW dungeons.

Twilight Princess: It has an exceptional story but the facial rigs are so rigid that every closeup ruins the scene it's in (unless the closeup is of Midna, the only character with a flexible rig). The dungeon designs are pretty good, but it's the music that really holds them together.

Ocarina of Time is the original 3D Zelda, and some things have NOT aged well. The Water Temple is poorly designed (fixed in 3D), the mechanics are rigid (Epona), and certain temples (Fire, Water, Jabun, Gerudo Hideout) feel like a chore rather than something that draws you in.

Majora's Mask has a fantastic start that never makes you feel like you are in a tutorial. The dungeons are decent with some mediocre bosses, but the game is truly about the lore and sidequests that you can embark on. For some that can be a downside.

Breath of the Wild: VERY cookie-cutter story that only has depth if you complete optional content. The actual dungeon design is EXTREMELY lackluster compared to the shrines, and even those are so one-off that good mechanics are never fully explored. The map design is superb, which is a given considering that MonolithSoft made it. The combat is plagued with boring animations (compare Wind Waker's attacks with BotW's). This mediocrity is only broken up should the player learn the combat system with the same fervor that we learn Smash's combat system (bow spins, animation-cancels, freeze/stun locks)

And now, Skyward Sword: I will never understand why Skyward Sword gets all the flak that it does. It has a non-cookiecutter story (THANK GOODNESS NO GANON!), excellent dungeon design, catchy music in every. single. area. and art direction that knocks every other Zelda out of the bloody park. Cultures exist WITHIN this game that suggest the progression and regression of technology. It is deeply rooted in the series' lore, with the factories responsible for the creation of Guardians AND the mines that mined for the stone used to make the Ocarina of Time being fully explorable. That's not to mention that you literally CREATE the Master Sword. Exploration is rewarding, sidequests abound with interesting characters, and the main characters DEVELOP as the story progresses (Groose, Fi, Zelda). It is well-paced and hardly ever feels like a chore. The meat of the game isn't just confined to dungeons, as the Silent Realm challenges and creative leadup to the dungeons themselves make the world feel like more than just a hub to the temples. Its only failures are an extremely slow beginning up until the completion of the first dungeon, which almost every 3D Zelda game is guilty of, and NO SNOW AREA. Not having a snow area is inexcusable, in my opinion, and keeps me from calling this the perfect Zelda game (Snowpeak was the bomb).

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Compare it to Wind Waker, which is unpolished and obviously unfinished. There are two scrapped dungeons that are painted over with some horribly-paced story progression: the cursed Great Sea and Triforce collection. Hyrule was also SUPPOSED to be a second overworld (in the game's files there are ship anchors that warp you to the surface). That being said, the few dungeons in the game are colorful and unique. They served as the basis for Skyward Sword's dungeons. In fact, at least one of the two unused dungeons from Wind Waker is IN Skyward Sword. The Ancient Cistern being so dependent on the sailcloth (Deku Leaf), water levels, and the whip (Grappling Hook), as well as its aesthetic and introduction of a ReDead-esque enemy heavily suggest that it is indeed one of the missing WW dungeons.

Twilight Princess: It has an exceptional story but the facial rigs are so rigid that every closeup ruins the scene it's in (unless the closeup is of Midna, the only character with a flexible rig). The dungeon designs are pretty good, but it's the music that really holds them together.

Ocarina of Time is the original 3D Zelda, and some things have NOT aged well. The Water Temple is poorly designed (fixed in 3D), the mechanics are rigid (Epona), and certain temples (Fire, Water, Jabun, Gerudo Hideout) feel like a chore rather than something that draws you in.

Majora's Mask has a fantastic start that never makes you feel like you are in a tutorial. The dungeons are decent with some mediocre bosses, but the game is truly about the lore and sidequests that you can embark on. For some that can be a downside.

Breath of the Wild: VERY cookie-cutter story that only has depth if you complete optional content. The actual dungeon design is EXTREMELY lackluster compared to the shrines, and even those are so one-off that good mechanics are never fully explored. The map design is superb, which is a given considering that MonolithSoft made it. The combat is plagued with boring animations (compare Wind Waker's attacks with BotW's). This mediocrity is only broken up should the player learn the combat system with the same fervor that we learn Smash's combat system (bow spins, animation-cancels, freeze/stun locks)

And now, Skyward Sword: I will never understand why Skyward Sword gets all the flak that it does. It has a non-cookiecutter story (THANK GOODNESS NO GANON!), excellent dungeon design, catchy music in every. single. area. and art direction that knocks every other Zelda out of the bloody park. Cultures exist WITHIN this game that suggest the progression and regression of technology. It is deeply rooted in the series' lore, with the factories responsible for the creation of Guardians AND the mines that mined for the stone used to make the Ocarina of Time being fully explorable. That's not to mention that you literally CREATE the Master Sword. Exploration is rewarding, sidequests abound with interesting characters, and the main characters DEVELOP as the story progresses (Groose, Fi, Zelda). It is well-paced and hardly ever feels like a chore. The meat of the game isn't just confined to dungeons, as the Silent Realm challenges and creative leadup to the dungeons themselves make the world feel like more than just a hub to the temples. Its only failures are an extremely slow beginning up until the completion of the first dungeon, which almost every 3D Zelda game is guilty of, and NO SNOW AREA. Not having a snow area is inexcusable, in my opinion, and keeps me from calling this the perfect Zelda game (Snowpeak was the bomb).

I think Skyward Sword is the most underrated Zelda game and it deserves more credit and praise than it get's.

 

[Downshift]

It is deeply rooted in the series' lore, with the factories responsible for the creation of Guardians AND the mines that mined for the stone used to make the Ocarina of Time being fully explorable.

Wait, what? Really?

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Wait, what? Really?

The design of the Guardians was based on Skyward Sword's Lanayru's ancient industry (Guardians were designed to fight the Calamity. Demise = Calamity). The Hyrule Historia confirms that the Timeshift Stones were used to create the Ocarina of Time.

 

[Downshift]

I might have to dig out my WiiU again...

 

[DarkStarStorm]

I might have to dig out my WiiU again...

I 100%ed BotW, so I have no real reason to play it again, unless I want to kill a Lynel in 13.7 seconds with a bow spin...

 

[Downshift]

I migrated all Wii games and saves to my WiiU, so I'd be playing SS on the WiiU.

 

[Earl_dud]

I only main KONG because of the waifu factor

My love for the KONG expands DONG.

 

[Downshift]

Metagross is still a much better waifu than DK

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Metagross is still a much better waifu than DK

Have you SEEN Dedede's crouch?

 

[Downshift]

Hover Boots > Metagross > DDD > DK > SSBU Zelda

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Hover Boots > Metagross > DDD > DK > SSBU Zelda

Iron Boots > Hover Boots
One of them lacks traction in your relationship, and the other is your anchor in your time of need.

 

[channel_KYX]

Iron Boots > Hover Boots
One of them lacks traction in your relationship, and the other is your anchor in your time of need.

One of them slows you down when you wish to advance to new shores, and the other supports you in reaching new heights.

Spoiler

I like you.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

One of them slows you down when you wish to advance to new shores, and the other supports you in reaching new heights.

Spoiler

I like you.

Au contraire! One keeps hardship from springing up under your feet, and the other doesn't like change. You can't fall into hard times, no, but you also cannot reach for the stars.

Spoiler

I made a friend!

[/QUOTE]

 

[channel_KYX]

you also cannot reach for the stars.

Unless stars are magnetic, you cannot with the iron boots either.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Unless stars are magnetic, you cannot with the iron boots either.

No, but trouble will never spring up beneath you. Although...*laughs*....once you dump the Iron Boots you can soar into the heavens.

 

[Deleted member]

I feel like this thread is getting taken the wrong way. It's meant to not be serious. I mean, when your thread is called Waifu Factor, it's a pretty clear sign. Which is why this arguing is getting annoying.

I get that people might think it detracts from Zelda and all by calling her a waifu, but by thinking that, you are in turn detracting from Zelda, by not letting people appreciate her for what they appreciate her for. She can have fans who only like her for their looks, and also fans who want to make her competitively viable, and I really do not understand why people can't like her for both like I do. It's not like the pervs would be willing to change their minds anyways, if that's what you're worried about, Oz.

There are tons of threads that talk about Zelda's moveset potential that anybody will see when they come to this site, and serious players can approach them instead of this one. This thread was purely made to appreciate the new and improved Zelda, (to those who think of this design as "new and improved" at least,) so I believe we should use it as such.

 

[Downshift]

Wait, who are you again?

 

[Deleted member]

A slightly above-average Zelda main. (the "above-average" is up for debate, since my reaction time is mediocre.)



(I was also the one who suggested the poll be made.)

 

[Downshift]

Oh yeah, that's right.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

I feel like this thread is getting taken the wrong way. It's meant to not be serious. I mean, when your thread is called Waifu Factor, it's a pretty clear sign. Which is why this arguing is getting annoying.

I get that people might think it detracts from Zelda and all by calling her a waifu, but by thinking that, you are in turn detracting from Zelda, by not letting people appreciate her for what they appreciate her for. She can have fans who only like her for their looks, and also fans who want to make her competitively viable, and I really do not understand why people can't like her for both like I do. It's not like the pervs would be willing to change their minds anyways, if that's what you're worried about, Oz.

There are tons of threads that talk about Zelda's moveset potential that anybody will see when they come to this site, and serious players can approach them instead of this one. This thread was purely made to appreciate the new and improved Zelda, (to those who think of this design as "new and improved" at least,) so I believe we should use it as such.

Oh look. We have someone who's triggered over a thread full of people who have no issues with the discussion that has taken place. Considering how your first post in this thread is attempting to rock the boat, I would like to suggest that you kindly respect what preceded you. IT has defined this thread, not whatever intention you had when you "suggested that the poll be made" (is that statement supposed to carry weight?). We have and are discussing the visual aspects of Zelda's Smash Ultimate incarnation, and I think that you should respect that.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh look. We have someone who's triggered over a thread full of people who have no issues with the discussion that has taken place. Considering how your first post in this thread is attempting to rock the boat, I would like to suggest that you kindly respect what preceded you. IT has defined this thread, not whatever intention you had when you "suggested that the poll be made" (is that statement supposed to carry weight?). We have and are discussing the visual aspects of Zelda's Smash Ultimate incarnation, and I think that you should respect that.

I wasn't triggered when I wrote the post. But I will apologize for it.
My post is about two weeks too late, (because I didn't get notifications for this thread for some reason,) and I saw arguing in earlier posts that clearly resolved. I personally hate it when people argue, and on video game boards it leads to me trying to take charge of a post (which is a really weird habit now that I realize it lol). So I'll work on that.
And there are other reasons that people have to use this thread beyond what I said. But to ask everyone else here, what are those reasons?

 

[Downshift]

And there are other reasons that people have to use this thread beyond what I said. But to ask everyone else here, what are those reasons?

I don't like the bashing on Twilight Zelda, so I'm defending her.
Saying that you don't have to hate on one Zelda in order to just prefer another.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

I wasn't triggered when I wrote the post. But I will apologize for it.
...I saw arguing in earlier posts that clearly resolved. I personally hate it when people argue...

I accept and appreciate your apology.

I see a very clear difference between arguing and having a difference of opinion and exchanging that. Unfortunately today's society believes that the two are one and the same. What we were doing was having a discussion, which is a good thing. There was no ad hominem going on, just a mature talk about Zelda's design over the years.

 

[Deleted member]

It's reducing Zelda to just a cute icon and people won't even take her as a serious threat. I respect people that actually have the play to back it up.

Are being serious with this post m8?

You're saying this is a negative trait?

Being a ruler isn't a personality trait, it's a job. I think people more than anything are glad Zelda was given an actual personality for once rather than just being a plot device for Link to get **** done. I personally, would be more than glad to play a Zelda game where the protag is Ultimate Zelda, she's by far her best incarnation.