So can we talk about this?

[ZeoLightning]

パックマンのガードクラッシュからの即死コンボ。
余程ずらされなければ確定で入ると思います。1回目の踏み台ジャンプの後に消火栓を出しているのは最速起き上がりで抜けられてしまうのを回避するため。
後半のは半永久ループ。マリオは死ぬ。 pic.twitter.com/xOQKFSHDVw

— 魔王ていとく@アクアさん大好きマン (@Teitoku06142) November 17, 2015

Not only is this a Shield break combo that could be real, its a foot stool combo that is definitely real we just need to learn the timing. This is something we should expand on more and experiment with

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

パックマンのガードクラッシュからの即死コンボ。
余程ずらされなければ確定で入ると思います。1回目の踏み台ジャンプの後に消火栓を出しているのは最速起き上がりで抜けられてしまうのを回避するため。
後半のは半永久ループ。マリオは死ぬ。 pic.twitter.com/xOQKFSHDVw

— 魔王ていとく@アクアさん大好きマン (@Teitoku06142) November 17, 2015

Not only is this a Shield break combo that could be real, its a foot stool combo that is definitely real we just need to learn the timing. This is something we should expand on more and experiment with

Those sounds are like music. Dock-dock-dock-CRUSH.

Again though, this looks pretty difficult to set up since you need a Key again. We could possibly try with other Fruits for time being.

 

[dragontamer]

Lets break it down.

1. Shield break from the Key -> Hydrant -> key -> Bair / Nair as discussed in previous threads
2. Taunt
3. ZDrop -> Full footstool -> ZDrop -- The height of this first footstool is the largest, and will likely be the trickiest to pull off.
4. Hydrant -- Hydrant provides three hitboxes with the key, giving enough hitstun for Pac-man to Footstool again
5. Half-height footstool -> The 2nd footstool is shorter, and the footstools from this side no longer require any advanced setups beyond just ZDrop -> Footstool -> Catch
6. Quarter-height footstool -> Nair (weakbox) -> The last of the footstools. The weakbox of Nair sets Mario into an untechable jab-lock getup.
7. Repeat 3 through 5 for one more sequence of damage off the timing of the jab-lock.

------------------

The 2nd combo is actually quite different. It links step 6 above by doing one more footstool, then lands, jumps, z-drops -> full size footstool and back to step #3. The video leaves off implying that this combo is a true infinite.

Those sounds are like music. Dock-dock-dock-CRUSH.

Again though, this looks pretty difficult to set up since you need a Key again. We could possibly try with other Fruits for time being.

Everyone is welcome to try it out of course, but the "key" is step #3 and #4: how to combo off of the full height footstool jump. In fact, the only real innovation here is step #3 and #4. Everything else in the video has been discussed in this forum before.

IIRC, customs Melon still launches Hydrant. But as far as the default fruit go, only Key instant-launches hydrant. I'm not sure if anything else will provide cover off the full-jump from the first footstool.

 

[BSP]

These look cool and all, but they're not going to become commonplace for the same reason that Diddy's infinites in brawl didn't become commonplace. I'll elaborate later.

Elaboration: these are outstanding punishes, no doubt. We're going to need a shield break before any of this becomes feasible however. No one is going to stand under Pac-Man with a key in his hand if they know about these shenanigans. At the least, it may open people up to moving more, which may make it easier to strike them with keys from hand.

Then we've got to get keys in hand...in other words, this won't shoot Pac-Man up on the tier list or anything. Good to know, but don't expect it to be performed consistently in tournament.

 

[Coolaid_Mix]

Dat is too good! Pac-Man is best smash bros character forever and always!

 

[Splebel]

It could be because I play FG a lot or I'm doing something differently but I can never do the shield break because people tend to roll instead of shielding my zdropped keys. I don't see this being feasible either.

 

[BSP]

It could be because I play FG a lot or I'm doing something differently but I can never do the shield break because people tend to roll instead of shielding my zdropped keys. I don't see this being feasible either.

As I've said before, I did a shield break combo on one of my partners before and he was like "!!??!" Ever since then, if I have a key in hand, he simply refuses to sit in his shield under me. At the least this will help scare people, but I wouldn't expect this to consistently happen.

 

[NouveauRétro]

I see a future Play of the Week!

 

[dragontamer]

As I've said before, I did a shield break combo on one of my partners before and he was like "!!??!" Ever since then, if I have a key in hand, he simply refuses to sit in his shield under me. At the least this will help scare people, but I wouldn't expect this to consistently happen.

However, the combo seems to have promise if the opponent gets hit by the Z-Drop and we go into the footstool. It looks like a near impossible hitconfirm however, so maybe its impractical.

In any case, I agree with you. If you ever dribble the Melon in combat, enemies learn real quick to space you correctly... away from "under" you. Its more of a "threat" but I don't really see enemies under me anymore. Still, it looks like this combo is good practice, even if it isn't going to be pulled off consistently in a real game.

Shield breaks do happen occasionally, and its good to know how to convert any shield break into a guaranteed KO setup. I do wonder if we have the time to fully-charge to key, perform the off-stage key-catch, and then come back before the opponent mashes out of the stun however.

 

[BSP]

As Pacman9 mentioned though, maybe our game really does need to become run away until we get a fruit in hand -> have the constant pressure of crap like this over the opponent's head. I probably won't practice the infinite, but next time I get to play semi-seriously, I'll go for a strategy where I do nothing but get the key in my hand and try to go for cheese. Unlike melon, key is still stupid fast and isn't something to be trifled with.

 

[Nu~]

Anything to scare opponents off of their shield button.

This is pretty damn big for the fear factor

 

[verbatim]

Anything to scare opponents off of their shield button.

This is pretty damn big for the fear factor

Bizzaro Flame placed pretty well at CEO this year, even though he wasn't and still is not a top tier Ganon in smash 4 pretty much entirely on fear factor. He would do super punishable things over and over again and people just kept running away from him until they eventually got hit.

If you can even do this ONCE on stream against anyone, people will fear you, and that's worth it's weight in gold. It helps that the specific combo demonstrated works at 0 (we should probably find out who exactly this works on, IK Falcon has a similar combo with dair footstool forever that only works on certain characters), so theoretically you could take the first stock, get a key in hand while they're respawning, then go for this.

 

[BSP]

Unfortunately, this brings something bad with it....

Nintendo is pretty good about patching out infinites in this game, are they not? Since I highly doubt a universal footstool mechanic change, I'm expecting something like "Key disappears on its 3rd hit" or something so this can't happen. Someone mentioned this on twitter and it's highly likely.

 

[Nu~]

Unfortunately, this brings something bad with it....

Nintendo is pretty good about patching out infinites in this game, are they not? Since I highly doubt a universal footstool mechanic change, I'm expecting something like "Key disappears on its 3rd hit" or something so this can't happen. Someone mentioning this on twitter and it's highly likely.

Peach's infinte isn't gone yet though.

Perhaps sakurai will pass by this one as well?
We really don't need another ****ing nerf

 

[Splebel]

Unfortunately, this brings something bad with it....

Nintendo is pretty good about patching out infinites in this game, are they not? Since I highly doubt a universal footstool mechanic change, I'm expecting something like "Key disappears on its 3rd hit" or something so this can't happen. Someone mentioned this on twitter and it's highly likely.

They might not because of how obscure and complex this is. Plus it's highly situational.

 

[BSP]

Maybe. I know I'll sound contradictory since I just said this won't be revolutionary or anything, but this thing breaks shields instantly. How do you deal with this unless you've got an amazing camp game of your own or a sword? It's a significant risk : reward shift to Pac-Man's favor. Even if you don't infinite someone afterwards, key -> footstool -> hydrant drop -> hydrant launch -> aerial is still 40%+ and you're set to do it again.

Diddy in brawl could infinite, but he couldn't instantly break your shield.

 

[ZeoLightning]

honestly the more we develop setups and possibly footstools, i think these can be super good punishes, also i think these work with apple too if experimented too

 

[Splebel]

Online sometimes I mash the jump button over someone and get a jump but no footstool. Is that only an online thing or is that just smash in general? I find footstool combos hard to do intentionally.

 

[DisidisiD]

Online sometimes I mash the jump button over someone and get a jump but no footstool. Is that only an online thing or is that just smash in general? I find footstool combos hard to do intentionally.

Ok this I can explain. If the opponent is in the middle of an action, like a special or peach's float, they can't be footstooled. What happens is you get a huge jump but they are unaffected. Its pretty interesting.

 

[ZeoLightning]

Online sometimes I mash the jump button over someone and get a jump but no footstool. Is that only an online thing or is that just smash in general? I find footstool combos hard to do intentionally.

im waiting for ways to learn how to footstool super good, im also trying to practice doing them, i wanna learn how to footstool efficiently, i think they're super under developed with TONS more potential.

 

[ZeoLightning]

Online sometimes I mash the jump button over someone and get a jump but no footstool. Is that only an online thing or is that just smash in general? I find footstool combos hard to do intentionally.

This should explain a few things

 

[Splebel]

Ok this I can explain. If the opponent is in the middle of an action, like a special or peach's float, they can't be footstooled. What happens is you get a huge jump but they are unaffected. Its pretty interesting.

This should explain a few things

Thanks

 

[Lonpos]

This should explain a few things

So can we say that a footstool also is a safe OoS option? Like for example OoS > footstool > hydrant

 

[ZeoLightning]

So can we say that a footstool also is a safe OoS option? Like for example OoS > footstool > hydrant

yes that is possible since you can hydrant immediately after a footstool,

 

[BSP]

I'm starting to have second thoughts on this. As I said in my first part, this reminds me of Diddy's infinites. Unlike Diddy's infinites, this setup breaks your shield. Even then I thought, "so what? We still have to catch key, which is a big pain...."

Then I thought about the current stage list. In most places, the starter list is FD, SV, BF, T&C, and DL64. The Key recatch is trivial on 3/5 of these stages, meaning that we can always force the opponent to an easy recatch stage at least twice. IE we strike SV and T&C, we go to one of FD, DL64, or BF. Let's say we win game 1 on FD. They take us to some CP and win. They ban DL64, and due to Dave's stupid rule we can't pick FD again. So we go with BF.

Like I said, we are guaranteed two trivial recatch stages for a Bo3. This is honestly worth practicing because risk : reward is so heavily in Pac-Man's favor, and we are guaranteed 2 easy stages to get the key.

Even if you can't do the full infinite, I'm sure zdrop Key -> footstool recatch -> zdrop again + drop hydrant => 52% pretty easily, and you still have the key available. I'm eating my words. I'm going to try to abuse this as much as possible.

 

[Lonpos]

I just saw Tourneylocator posting this pacman shieldbreak combo video on their facebook, exposing it to their whole community.
So I think people will be more wary of the key than before. Which is a good / bad thing.

 

[Zage]

This could be pretty big, I don't see any down side to practicing this. If you can't get the full combo the damage is still real, unlike something like perfect pivoting where inconsistency can potentially get punished. Even if you can't do it, the fact that it's getting so much exposure is probably a good thing. Opponents will play much more cautiously if they see that you have a key in hand now.

The biggest problem is getting the shield break with a key. Z-drop>Hydrant is pretty telegraphed and can be beaten by full jump airdodge or meaty aerials. Sh > double z-drop > nair (maybe back-air?) Might be better options? I'm gonna lab this later today and record what I do find.

Edit: We can actually catch the key on FD, SV ,T&C and DL64 pretty easily. The back air trick doesn't work on SV or T&C and requires you actually time the throw, but it's easy enough to do it consistently offline once you learn the timing.

 

[Neutricity]

Step 1: Learn this
Step 2: Find an opponent that will let you get key in hand
Step 3: Catch the key
Step 4: Find an opponent that will stay in shield rather than rolling away to safety
Step 5: Profit

 

[Coolaid_Mix]

Step 1: Learn this
Step 2: Find an opponent that will let you get key in hand
Step 3: Catch the key
Step 4: Find an opponent that will stay in shield rather than rolling away to safety
Step 5: Profit

Or you can find those For Glory noobs that do nothing and simply do the infinite then. That's what I do

 

[BSP]

Step 1: Learn this
Step 2: Find an opponent that will let you get key in hand
Step 3: Catch the key
Step 4: Find an opponent that will stay in shield rather than rolling away to safety
Step 5: Profit

#4 is the problem, but when you've got a lead in tournament, they've got to come to you. Then you can possibly pull this off, or at least they can't use their shield safely at all.

 

[verbatim]

The biggest problem is getting the shield break with a key. Z-drop>Hydrant is pretty telegraphed and can be beaten by full jump airdodge or meaty aerials. Sh > double z-drop > nair (maybe back-air?) Might be better options? I'm gonna lab this later today and record what I do find.

Has anyone confirmed that we can't just start this out of footstool? A shieldbreak is really helpful because you can time it with the taunt, but if you can set it up in more circumstances the utility goes through the roof.

Also worth noting, Captain Falcon and Ganondorf have footstool true combo's that go to death percent, but they don't work on every character in the game. We should probably make note of who this does or doesn't work on (or maybe set up some kind of Skype/discord thing so we can keep this secret to Pac-mains).

 

[Lonpos]

Has anyone confirmed that we can't just start this out of footstool? A shieldbreak is really helpful because you can time it with the taunt, but if you can set it up in more circumstances the utility goes through the roof.

Also worth noting, Captain Falcon and Ganondorf have footstool true combo's that go to death percent, but they don't work on every character in the game. We should probably make note of who this does or doesn't work on (or maybe set up some kind of Skype/discord thing so we can keep this secret to Pac-mains).

I managed the first part in training mode on 1/4 speed, it is insanely difficult!!
Can someone doublecheck it for me?

SH > Zdrop > footstool and immediatly z catch the key > Zdrop > Hydrant > footstool

EDIT: It seems like you can also full hop at the beginning, you just need to fall along with the Z-dropped-key to perform a footstool the moment the key hits your target. The SH makes it easier to time and the quickest execution..

DOUBLE EDIT: I even dare to say that you can even ignore the first step. That the Zdrop > Hydrant is a shieldbreaker and an infinite. If opponent shields you can go for the bair of nair to break the shield, if the opponent takes the hit you can continue the footstool combo. This should be possible in theory.

 

[Coolaid_Mix]

I managed the first part in training mode on 1/4 speed, it is insanely difficult!!
Can someone doublecheck it for me?

SH > Zdrop > footstool and immediatly z catch the key > Zdrop > Hydrant > footstool

EDIT: It seems like you can also full hop at the beginning, you just need to fall along with the Z-dropped-key to perform a footstool the I moment the key hits your target. The SH makes it easier to time and the quickest execution..

It really is difficult. The problem that I sometimes have is not grabbing the key after the second footstool. It always wants to go behind me, do that I cant grab it. Other than that, It really isn't too bad to get down. Well..... If you spend a whole day trying to do it.

 

[ZeoLightning]

how do you get Z dropped items to bounce twice? i seen it with the key, Galaxian and melon

 

[Neutricity]

#4 is the problem, but when you've got a lead in tournament, they've got to come to you. Then you can possibly pull this off, or at least they can't use their shield safely at all.

You get the joke lol
I would love to learn this if pac-man had a tool to condition the opponent into shielding as apposed to rolling away. But that's a pipe dream.

 

[Coolaid_Mix]

how do you get Z dropped items to bounce twice? i seen it with the key, Galaxian and melon

From what I understand, those are the only ones that bounce twice.

 

[ZeoLightning]

From what I understand, those are the only ones that bounce twice.

I still cant even get them to do that

 

[Psi Sig]

I still cant even get them to do that

I believe its height dependent.
also does fast falling make a difference?

 

[Nu~]

The only one that bounces twice is galaxian.

 

[Splebel]

To clarify: The only one that has more than one damaging bounce is galaxian. The others can bounce multiple times depending on what happens but will only damage once.