So as a community should we try and voice our concerns?

[Renji64]

I just want people to know that the purpose of this isn't to make the game more like Melee but instead to make it viable for esports (make it fun to play AND watch). It doesn't necessarily have to have Melee mechanics, and most of what is being said isn't even Melee exclusive. I came from Brawl, and I loved playing it, but it had it's problems along with every other smash game. If we can take some of the better aspects of smash and get them into Smash 4 then I think it will benefit everyone.

Someone gets it.

 

[Snakeyes]

I just want people to know that the purpose of this isn't to make the game more like Melee but instead to make it viable for esports (make it fun to play AND watch). It doesn't necessarily have to have Melee mechanics, and most of what is being said isn't even Melee exclusive. I came from Brawl, and I loved playing it, but it had it's problems along with every other smash game. If we can take some of the better aspects of smash and get them into Smash 4 then I think it will benefit everyone.

Yup. Just adding to what you said - Smash 64 had floaty physics, copious amounts of hitlag, no Melee-like dash-dancing, no aerial momentum, no throw follow-ups (unless you were playing DK, Jigglypuff or Captain Falcon), and smash DI only. Despite all this, it was still an excellent competitive game because of the combo potential. I think it would be wise to focus on the aspects that are most vital to exciting tournament play (landing lag, hitstun) and let the rest of the pieces fall where they may.

 

[Snakeyes]

So, is this happening?

 

[DontBliNk]

As a casual player even though I try to play competitive at times I agree and will support this. I recently started to play PM even though I'm against people changing the original games with mods. its not that bad and its an alternative since I can't play melee, I sold my copy a long time ago. I think what most people have mentioned is a great addition to the game. I doubt they will put the L-cancel in but they can reduce the land lag at least. Perhaps add a new dash mechanic(not wave dashing) thats more natural and can be performed easily. I was thinking something like you see in the megaman games but with a short distance and the ability to crouch and cancel it just in case. I hope nintendo at least gives it a chance as everything people has stated is no way making the game more OP and it gives more options. I really hope link is faster now since in brawl he was too slow. If there is a petition or way to contribute I would help. Btw off-topic but do the famous competitive players like at the invitational and stuff still play these games competitively? I heard many of them retired so idk if they play, it was an inspiration so I'd hate for them to go.

 

[Qsmash]

So, is this happening?

I feel like this hasn't gone any where yet because its still too unorganized. Its kind of still in the "planning" stages and not enough people have jumped on board yet or even considered this a thing that will actually happen. Not even sure how many have figured out how to get the message so that Nintendo sees it. Like one person said, I guess we could just flood their facebook, twitter, and maybe Miiverse (maybe). I know one thing that we agree on is not to do a petition. They never EVER work.

 

[Snakeyes]

I think we should try to get in touch with a member of the community that has contacts within Nintendo (Prog?) and write a short letter that could then be relayed to the dev team.

 

[kazrisk]

From what I've heard landing lag is really reduced in Smash 4, someone said that L-canceling was basically automatic (another thread on the forums, forgot where - something about the general speed of the game).

I think with tripping gone, faster speeds, better balancing, less landing lag, HD, more characters, final destination stages, Smash 4 is already really shaping out to be the best Smash. Plus there is roughly 4-6 months left of development for the Wii U version. Nintendo has made entire games in 6 months, all of the finer things can be added easily in the rest of the time. I know you don't want posts if people are demanding changes, just thought I'd offer my two cents on how a lot of your concerns may already be fixed by the time you send a letter.

It's a scary thing to say "Trust them" after what happened with Brawl, but with Sakurai acknowledging the hate and downfall with Brawl and the necessity for something like Project M and all of that - I think we can simply trust him. The Invitational shows that he acknowledges the competitive scene and he wants to appeal to that, while of course considering the family players and all that.

All that being said, I say we go to his house and throw turtle shells in his windows with notes inside. "We found you. Come outside." You guys can take it from there.

 

[JV5Chris]

From what I've heard landing lag is really reduced in Smash 4, someone said that L-canceling was basically automatic (another thread on the forums, forgot where - something about the general speed of the game).

That's what people want to hear and not necessarily what the current state of the game is:

D1's Smash 4 Gameplay interview (and please, no getting hung up on the term "2.0", it's really not important)
VGBootcamp's character moveset overview

Always best to reach your own conclusions but it never hurts to hear those out who've played Smash 4 the most.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

I just want people to know that the purpose of this isn't to make the game more like Melee but instead to make it viable for esports (make it fun to play AND watch). It doesn't necessarily have to have Melee mechanics, and most of what is being said isn't even Melee exclusive. I came from Brawl, and I loved playing it, but it had it's problems along with every other smash game. If we can take some of the better aspects of smash and get them into Smash 4 then I think it will benefit everyone.

Right, and it's just some kind of magical coincidence that everything people are crying about wanting in Smash 4 are copy pasted mechanics directly from Melee...

 

[kazrisk]

That's what people want to hear and not necessarily what the current state of the game is:

D1's Smash 4 Gameplay interview (and please, no getting hung up on the term "2.0", it's really not important)
VGBootcamp's character moveset overview

Always best to reach your own conclusions but it never hurts to hear those out who've played Smash 4 the most.

The people saying what I said are from those on the forums that had the opportunity to play the game quite a bit, and the current state of the game. I heard it controls like Brawl, but everything else with combos and the flow of combos are from 64, Melee, or new and improved and refreshing. Seems like it is shaping out to be a blend of all Smash in a great way.

The interview with D1 keeps giving me an error, but I'll save the link and try to watch it tomorrow.

I was watching KDJ on Twitch today and I brought up Smash 4 in the stream and he addressed it saying it was great but just felt unfinished. It is unfinished, don't think that is a concern to voice.

By the way, with VGBootcamp's video, I couldn't help but notice - wow this game is beautiful. I got a chance to play it on the 3DS as well and everytime am blown away by how it looks, and that video reminded me. Okay, carry on.

 

[RODO]

Right, and it's just some kind of magical coincidence that everything people are crying about wanting in Smash 4 are copy pasted mechanics directly from Melee...

It's really not. I just less hit lag, less lag on aerials, maybe shorter borders and in general just an offensive based game. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing and frankly I'd appreciate you just leaving my thread alone at this point. I'm trying to offer constructive criticism and all you are doing is borderline trolling me.

 

[kazrisk]

It's really not. I just less hit lag, less lag on aerials, maybe shorter borders and in general just an offensive based game. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing and frankly I'd appreciate you just leaving my thread alone at this point. I'm trying to offer constructive criticism and all you are doing is borderline trolling me.

I wonder if Sakurai will find ways to add offensive tactics without reducing the lag you requested more than he has from Brawl already to make animals look natural in the game. That was a beef I had with Melee, was that by the time players found tech to reduce lag, the animations looked glitchy, even if they were intended. I think a lot of players like that cause it shows how much they have mastered the mechanics, but I like when the movements of the characters look great but also are quick and responsive with no lag. And don't let Zipzo bother you, if he is a troll don't feed him and the conversation will be carried on by those who care about it.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

It's really not. I just less hit lag, less lag on aerials, maybe shorter borders and in general just an offensive based game. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing and frankly I'd appreciate you just leaving my thread alone at this point. I'm trying to offer constructive criticism and all you are doing is borderline trolling me.

I'm not trolling you, don't be dramatic.

If you have criticism, exactly what kind of good does it do to tell Smashboards?

You are on a list of millions and millions of other people who have their own specific laundry lists of things they'd like addressed in the new game, my only suggestion is to let the game actually come out before you cry foul. That can't be too much to ask, can it?

This thread asks "as a community should we try to voice our concerns?".

Why do you even need to ask? You're the eventual player of said game, if you have a nit-pick, send it to the people who can do something about it instead of vying for so much validation from your peers.

 

[RODO]

I'm not trolling you, don't be dramatic.

If you have criticism, exactly what kind of good does it do to tell Smashboards?

You are on a list of millions and millions of other people who have their own specific laundry lists of things they'd like addressed in the new game, my only suggestion is to let the game actually come out before you cry foul. That can't be too much to ask, can it?

This thread asks "as a community should we try to voice our concerns?".

Why do you even need to ask? You're the eventual player of said game, if you have a nit-pick, send it to the people who can do something about it instead of vying for so much validation from your peers.

You're being more dramatic than I am. All I was doing was gathering a general consensus in a manner that wasn't out right bashing the game. You seem to be upset that people have concerns with the game but I don't see many people outright saying "this game sucks it needs to be like melee." People get too defensive over constructive criticism.

It's already been noted that Nintendo keeps track of these boards but I have tried to reach out to a few people that I know have more reach than I do.

 

[StriCNYN3]

If you have criticism, exactly what kind of good does it do to tell Smashboards?

To get a proper consensus on major mechanics that need changing, then group the most reasonable ones to Nintendo. I'm sure Rodo made that clear with this sentence "Do we feel as if our concerns are going to be addressed or should we try and voice them to Nintendo?"

my only suggestion is to let the game actually come out before you cry foul. That can't be too much to ask, can it?

Smash is already a franchise with a release date that only comes upon each new console generation. Why wait and do nothing, wondering on what ifs and not considering the worst case and possible scenario (like Smash 4 never patching Vs mode mechanic wise post release like Brawl) when you can try to get what you need now? This kind of thinking wouldn't have given us the invitational, GC controllers and adapters if the Smash community sat and waited for things to hopefully come their way.

Why do you even need to ask? You're the eventual player of said game, if you have a nit-pick, send it to the people who can do something about it instead of vying for so much validation from your peers.

That's the point of this thread.


Anyway, things I'd like to see change in Smash 4's current state:

Reduce lag in general (it really makes no sense that Sonic, of all characters, pretty much recovers slower than most characters from his attacks. As graceful as Marth is as a swordsman, he shouldn't have his fair end with him being exposed for so long. Not only does this unnecessary lag mess with combo potential and over all flow, it just breaks character. It just seems like a case of putting too much attention on animation and not focusing on actual viability in gameplay.

Proper momentum after jumping (It stifles combo potential for speedy characters like Falcon, Sonic, possibly Greninja, etc and goes against what applies in real life that felt natural in-game before.)

Dash Dancing (For positional and baiting purposes. It gives a sense of freedom and control of your character unlike most traditional fighters.)

Reduce Blast Zone radius (It seems you either blow up or just make it back to the stage, most of the time not even needing to Up + B when coming from the sides as far as i'm concerned. Pits seem to be a unnecessary unless spiked hard, especially now that characters like Fox can Up + B after Side + B and Pikachu can do 3 quick attacks now (Up + B) now)

Less floaty physics (Characters still seem to just irradically move left and right and gently float while airborne which doesn't really give a sense of weight for the small,mid and big range of character statures.)

Increase hitstun (It still seems characters get out of anything faster than they ever should, despite having little knowledge of Smash 4. The Mario vs WFT Uair combo comes to mind.)


Too sleep deprived to really focus. =/

 

[RODO]

I want all of us to get along, and honestly it's okay if you're fine with how the game is now, but at least respectfully disagree with me/us if that's the case. Apologies for being off topic.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

You're being more dramatic than I am. All I was doing was gathering a general consensus in a manner that wasn't out right bashing the game. You seem to be upset that people have concerns with the game but I don't see many people outright saying "this game sucks it needs to be like melee." People get too defensive over constructive criticism.

It's already been noted that Nintendo keeps track of these boards but I have tried to reach out to a few people that I know have more reach than I do.

No, they don't say that if you're narrowing your focus down to people using that exact quotation but many of the things people are saying are essentially identical in assertion.

"This game will fail because it's like Brawl!"

"Without [insert whatever melee mechanic] this game will flounder competitively!"

"If Nintendo doesn't give us options it will never surpass Melee because that's what was so great about melee!"

So on and so forth.

I didn't particularly play Brawl so much. I played a hell of a lot more Melee. I don't dislike Brawl, but I prefer to play Project M. I appreciate what's different about each iteration of Smash (official or mod), though. I like each game for different things.

Smash 4, to me, looks perfect. I am so excited on several levels, I have faith in the presence of well adapted combos strings, a focus on flat stage balance, and Sakurai's perceived direction of game play in the upcoming game. I have literally zero complaints so far.

You could say I sit on the extreme end of the spectrum, in that way, and with that territory comes the extreme questioning of the other sides opinion. I'm not excited for this game simply because I'm a blind Sakurai fanboy, in fact I know barely anything about Sakurai except for that he develops Smash. I'm not even a Nintendo fanboy, as I've actually shunned Nintendo consoles for almost every generation with the exception of the need to play Smash.

Yet I am still passionately looking forward to everything I've seen so far. I couldn't be more hyped for the game in the state it's shown that it may well arrive in. I know that pisses you (and other people who seem to think the game is so flawed) off, but guess what, it's a reality. We exist. I just get tired of people thinking they speak for everyone when they complain about these lack of melee mechanics, or other really narrow minded "recommendations" for Nintendo. Not all of us want or need what you do, and that doesn't make us any less competitive either.

 

[Qsmash]

I think people just want a more offensive game, which isn't exclusive to melee.

 

[kazrisk]

No, they don't say that if you're narrowing your focus down to people using that exact quotation but many of the things people are saying are essentially identical in assertion.

"This game will fail because it's like Brawl!"

"Without [insert whatever melee mechanic] this game will flounder competitively!"

"If Nintendo doesn't give us options it will never surpass Melee because that's what was so great about melee!"

So on and so forth.

I didn't particularly play Brawl so much. I played a hell of a lot more Melee. I don't dislike Brawl, but I prefer to play Project M. I appreciate what's different about each iteration of Smash (official or mod), though. I like each game for different things.

Smash 4, to me, looks perfect. I am so excited on several levels, I have faith in the presence of well adapted combos strings, a focus on flat stage balance, and Sakurai's perceived direction of game play in the upcoming game. I have literally zero complaints so far.

You could say I sit on the extreme end of the spectrum, in that way, and with that territory comes the extreme questioning of the other sides opinion. I'm not excited for this game simply because I'm a blind Sakurai fanboy, in fact I know barely anything about Sakurai except for that he develops Smash. I'm not even a Nintendo fanboy, as I've actually shunned Nintendo consoles for almost every generation with the exception of the need to play Smash.

Yet I am still passionately looking forward to everything I've seen so far. I couldn't be more hyped for the game in the state it's shown that it may well arrive in. I know that pisses you (and other people who seem to think the game is so flawed) off, but guess what, it's a reality. We exist. I just get tired of people thinking they speak for everyone when they complain about these lack of melee mechanics, or other really narrow minded "recommendations" for Nintendo. Not all of us want or need what you do, and that doesn't make us any less competitive either.

This.

This game, first of all, isn't like Brawl. It controls like Brawl and has a feel of Brawl because they are probably building up from that engine or at least using a lot from it, but from what I've heard from people who got to play the game for quite a bit at E3, the combos don't work like Brawl, they don't flow like Brawl, and other tech mechanics are improved from Brawl. Tripping is gone, which killed a lot of aspects of metagame for competitive play, balance is much better (Sakurai stated that a large amount of people were in charge of balancing in Brawl, while this time a smaller group is in charge of that and thus there is less room for imbalance), and there are so so many fan services and attention to the competitive scene that was blatantly ignored in Brawl.

Plus, like I've been saying, there is still roughly 4-5 more months of development. I believe Nintendo has fully developed games in that amount of time. Those crucial tech things people are demanding will probably easily be added. Like Zipzo said, I trust Sakurai - especially after what he's said and done for the recent Smash.

Now I don't think there is any problem with voicing concerns you have and discussion them, but I also don't want you to worry when there is no need, or be so set on some of these mechanics and then be disappointed when the game doesn't have them in the way you imagine. I think there will be forms of l-canceling, wave dashing, etc., but maybe not in the traditional way of inputting quick controls within fast frames, maybe it'll be a more natural form of gameplay and competitive play will revolve around precision, mindgames, strategy, knowing your character, and knowing your moves inside and out.

I understand people want Melee HD, or Project M HD, but Nintendo strives on getting people want they didn't even know they wanted and I think we may find that with changes made to Smash with Smash 4. I don't think these changes will be like the mistakes of Brawl, I think Sakurai has made that clear and, once again, I trust him. This is my little diddy and I'm stickin' to it.

TL;DR - It's all good, yo.

 

[Snakeyes]

No, they don't say that if you're narrowing your focus down to people using that exact quotation but many of the things people are saying are essentially identical in assertion.

"This game will fail because it's like Brawl!"

"Without [insert whatever melee mechanic] this game will flounder competitively!"

"If Nintendo doesn't give us options it will never surpass Melee because that's what was so great about melee!"

So on and so forth.

No, not really. Find me one post with the same assertions in this thread. Aside from yours, of course.

 

[Hokori]

Opinions about the game can go in their respective threads...

But as for voicing concerns, I feel as though that's important to do. If you are genuinely concerned, there's no need to hold back, take action if seeing change is that important to you (using the general "You", not referring to anyone in particular).

While I am confident that Nintendo will at least make an effort to address universal concerns, I do realize what we've seen (the demos/Invitational in particular) was an unfinished, older version of the game, so I believe that some issues might have already been addressed.

I feel pretty good, but like I said before, if you truly have a concern (there are many people out there who will probably feel the same), then it would be nice to band together as a community and express ourselves. I see no wrong in doing that at all.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

No, not really. Find me one post with the same assertions in this thread. Aside from yours, of course.

Please, it really doesn't take dedicated to research to see that people have been doom & gloomy since E3 and the Best Buy events. Don't force me to have to prove something so blatantly obvious just by using your eyes and reading.

 

[HRR2b23]

Am I the only one who thinks that the whole combo/defensive play thing can be solved with near 64 levels of hitstun rather than adding in L cancelling/reduced landing lag and weaker throws? That would solve that issue without making a "technical" barrier to casuals. I'm not saying that the hitstun should be the same as 64, but closer to it would solve that issue.

I completely agree that dash canceling and dancing would be nice though.

 

[Snakeyes]

Please, it really doesn't take dedicated to research to see that people have been doom & gloomy since E3 and the Best Buy events. Don't force me to have to prove something so blatantly obvious just by using your eyes and reading.

Can you at least take your own advice when it comes to my post? I don't care about what some may have said in other topics, hell, I would've probably disagreed with most of it too. Doesn't change the fact that you're basically the only one posting that kind of stuff in this thread - the vast majority of the suggestions here have been very reasonable and nothing like what you described. This is actually one of the few instances where a discussion about game mechanics hasn't devolved into yet another Melee Vs. Brawl flame war after two pages.

If you have a problem with what the vocal Melee purists are complaining about elsewhere then by all means, go argue with them. But please don't stink up a thread where people are trying to do things in a civil manner.

 

[DontBliNk]

All I want to see changed are these things and I'm casual but I like the competitive side of things and wouldn't mind playing with them for a challenge.

-Reduce landing lag on aerials and certain ground moves.

-Reduce knockback on throws a bit more so you can follow up.

-Change the blast zone a bit so it doesn't take long to die.

-Dash dancing, just helps move in and out of a fight easily and not even hard to do.

Extras:
-Up the speed a bit more and make the game just a little less floaty.

-Add stages like Battlefield, fountain of dreams(if its back), yoshi's island and similar stages to for glory. Playing BF isn't that fun and it gives some characters an advantage like fox.

-lastly I thought about what LiquidKen said in an interview about having "more mobility options". What if sakurai could add the ability to dash with a character by pressing possibly L+R at the same time with the direction you want to go in but with a natural look to it. Something like a dash from megaman X with a nice short distance would be cool and after its used twice it gets a delay the next time but repeats this process so people don't spam it and must use it at the right time.

I think sakurai can do it, I know he got feedback already so all people can do is hope they give more depth to the game but the things I stated would be great and aren't even hard to add. The only thing is gonna be balancing with some of these so certain characters for some of these should for characters who need the help.

 

[kazrisk]

-Reduce landing lag on aerials and certain ground moves.

Lag has already been reduced from what I've heard in other posts, basically automatic l-canceling.

-Reduce knockback on throws a bit more so you can follow up.

Any knockbock was probably added to reduce chain-grabbing.

-Dash dancing, just helps move in and out of a fight easily and not even hard to do.

That's really my only concern, is the lack of dashing. However there is five months to add dashing, and the 3DS one seemed to allow me to be pretty quick in Smash Run, I feel like this concern doesn't need to be too voiced, surely he'll add dashing.

Extras:
-Up the speed a bit more and make the game just a little less floaty.

The game is already sped up compared to Brawl, and I don't think we'll get any faster. We have to become content with this in-between speed that Sakurai has compromised with and embrace everything else great about this new iteration of Smash. We will never get a Melee speed Smash again.

-Add stages like Battlefield, fountain of dreams(if its back), yoshi's island and similar stages to for glory. Playing BF isn't that fun and it gives some characters an advantage like fox.

I agree with this, I like alternating completely flat stages and stages with platforms, and no platforms in For Glory could be a bummer.

-lastly I thought about what LiquidKen said in an interview about having "more mobility options". What if sakurai could add the ability to dash with a character by pressing possibly L+R at the same time with the direction you want to go in but with a natural look to it. Something like a dash from megaman X with a nice short distance would be cool and after its used twice it gets a delay the next time but repeats this process so people don't spam it and must use it at the right time.

Dont agree with that control scheme, simple dashing is fine and I think will be added. Thats the mobility that Ken wants.

I think sakurai can do it, I know he got feedback already so all people can do is hope they give more depth to the game but the things I stated would be great and aren't even hard to add. The only thing is gonna be balancing with some of these so certain characters for some of these should for characters who need the help.

Sakurai has addressed balancing and explained why it was flawed and Brawl and the measures he has already taken to fix any imbalance with 4, so that concern has been heard and answered. Once again, I don't mind concerns, but a lot of these are irrelevant.

 

[JV5Chris]

Lag has already been reduced from what I've heard in other posts, basically automatic l-canceling.

Again, watch D1's interview before jumping to these conclusions.

Am I the only one who thinks that the whole combo/defensive play thing can be solved with near 64 levels of hitstun rather than adding in L cancelling/reduced landing lag and weaker throws?

It's going to take a far broader range of changes to successfully address the general feedback.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Can you at least take your own advice when it comes to my post? I don't care about what some may have said in other topics, hell, I would've probably disagreed with most of it too. Doesn't change the fact that you're basically the only one posting that kind of stuff in this thread - the vast majority of the suggestions here have been very reasonable and nothing like what you described. This is actually one of the few instances where a discussion about game mechanics hasn't devolved into yet another Melee Vs. Brawl flame war after two pages.

If you have a problem with what the vocal Melee purists are complaining about elsewhere then by all means, go argue with them. But please don't stink up a thread where people are trying to do things in a civil manner.

Okay, let me try to explain the misstep here.

Look at the thread title.

"As a community, should we try and voice our concerns?"

Here's the problem. Right off the bat, this thread title assumes that the community as a whole has concerns, and is merely attempting to be the catalyst for banding everyone together to voice them.

"...should we try and voice our concerns?".

And then this.

The point is that not everybody has concerns, and as one of those people, I dislike how this thread is initially gauged on the assumption that the issues people perceive should be treated objectively as issues or problems by everyone.

 

[kazrisk]

Okay, let me try to explain the misstep here.

Look at the thread title.

"As a community, should we try and voice our concerns?"

Here's the problem. Right off the bat, this thread title assumes that the community as a whole has concerns, and is merely attempting to be the catalyst for banding everyone together to voice them.

"...should we try and voice our concerns?".

And then this.

The point is that not everybody has concerns, and as one of those people, I dislike how this thread is initially gauged on the assumption that the issues people perceive should be treated objectively as issues or problems by everyone.

Also, the title is should we try to voice our concerns? If the concerns listed so far are the concerns, then I think the answer is no. Think the game is on a great track and we should let them do what they are doing.

 

[Book Jacket]

Zipzo said things

I understand what you're saying. I understand you don't like the idea of people preemptively hating a game that's going to rock all of our socks off in a massive hype-fueled explosion of kick-***-ness.

That being said, that ain't what this thread is about.

I've been lurking on this thread for a couple days now, read every post (skimmed some) and I can confidently say that I haven't seen a single thing saying that this game needs to be melee. I've seen a lot of people advocate reduced landing lag, more movement options, and the like, and for the most part, only a few people have recommended L-Canceling, and those who do would be fine if L-Canceling wasn't even there in favor of less landing lag.

I mention L-Canceling specifically because it's an example of melee tech, which leads me to this part:

It is not "Melee 2.0" that anyone here is asking for. Melee just has really great examples of the kind of offense-friendly movement that competitive (and even some casual (me)) players want.

Nobody is saying that Nintendo has to listen or the game will suck. We're just saying we'd like it better if -insert recommendation here- was in the game. That's it. And as people with opinions, we have a right to respectfully share them. And I emphasize respectfully, because that's what the goal here is.

That being said, I do think we should vocalize at least some of this to any extent, be it via youtube or miiverse or emails or anything else, so long as it is respectful. And I really hope it is, because if it isn't, I have a lot of misplaced faith in this community.

Also, @ kazrisk : there is a lot of landing lag, no auto-L-canceling or anything like it. Some has been reduced, yeah, but there's still a lot.

 

[Kevandre]

I wrote a snailmail letter of Reggie. I dunno if he got it or read it. My rational mind says he never saw it, my headcanon mind says he read it, took it to heart, and Nintendo is gonna change for the better.

And fund/have exclusivity rights to Psychonauts 2

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

Another thing I want to see back? Please bring back custom stages...I liked those. :\

 

[kazrisk]

I understand what you're saying. I understand you don't like the idea of people preemptively hating a game that's going to rock all of our socks off in a massive hype-fueled explosion of kick-***-ness.

That being said, that ain't what this thread is about.

I've been lurking on this thread for a couple days now, read every post (skimmed some) and I can confidently say that I haven't seen a single thing saying that this game needs to be melee. I've seen a lot of people advocate reduced landing lag, more movement options, and the like, and for the most part, only a few people have recommended L-Canceling, and those who do would be fine if L-Canceling wasn't even there in favor of less landing lag.

I mention L-Canceling specifically because it's an example of melee tech, which leads me to this part:

It is not "Melee 2.0" that anyone here is asking for. Melee just has really great examples of the kind of offense-friendly movement that competitive (and even some casual (me)) players want.

Nobody is saying that Nintendo has to listen or the game will suck. We're just saying we'd like it better if -insert recommendation here- was in the game. That's it. And as people with opinions, we have a right to respectfully share them. And I emphasize respectfully, because that's what the goal here is.

That being said, I do think we should vocalize at least some of this to any extent, be it via youtube or miiverse or emails or anything else, so long as it is respectful. And I really hope it is, because if it isn't, I have a lot of misplaced faith in this community.

Also, @ kazrisk : there is a lot of landing lag, no auto-L-canceling or anything like it. Some has been reduced, yeah, but there's still a lot.

Fair enough, my concern with people getting so set on some of these things is that they won't focus on the many great changes and aspects of Smash 4 that Sakurai has included for the competitive side, and thus people here will choose to dismiss Smash 4, ignore it, or hate on it shortly after release because it didn't meet specific expectations they had here - especially when those expectations are being met just maybe not in the way we expect.

Allz I'm sayin'. Keep on boonin'.

 

[Downdraft]

I'd say one move being too good is a fair trade-off for many other moves being buffed. And what's stopping a PK fire nerf? Bowser even has his ol' stiff neck from Melee again, so it'll be easier to escape.

I'd agree. Zelda's f-smash and u-smash should be inescapable. The newcomers have a few multi-hit moves that would also benefit from the absence of SDI.

 

[Hydde]

About Sakurai:

I think we can simply trust him. The Invitational shows that he acknowledges the competitive scene and he wants to appeal to that, while of course considering the family players and all that.

No, i dont trust him because he works in a weird manner. Knowing for a fact that melee was a big "accident" in his mind...and then all what he did in brawl in order to go away as far as possible from Melee........to just come now and say "yeh the balance was flawed in brawl "... then no, I cant trust a guy like him. He seems to be just too careless about the balance of the characters and focuses too much in making the game as little competitive as possible.

The best i can do now is to hope for the best, because im really really looking to this new game, to exorcise the demons from Brawl.

I know this game will be closer to brawl...but if he can make it at least FUN to play, it all will be good.

 

[Book Jacket]

Fair enough, my concern with people getting so set on some of these things is that they won't focus on the many great changes and aspects of Smash 4 that Sakurai has included for the competitive side, and thus people here will choose to dismiss Smash 4, ignore it, or hate on it shortly after release because it didn't meet specific expectations they had here - especially when those expectations are being met just maybe not in the way we expect.

Allz I'm sayin'. Keep on boonin'.

I gotcha. And I agree with that, too. It's looking to be a great game, and I think that one way or the other it will do well, with casuals and competitives.

And I will keep boonin', thank ya very much.