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In any situation that you could PP dsmash, couldn't you just fox trot dsmash? Or even stutter step dsmash? It would be the same thing.
as my smash stick rather than attack).
Yes, I did downplay running (and really other movement as a whole). I still find myself using it - however, whenever I do use it, I will automatically do a dash attack without thinking, and so as consequence of this, I am using dashing / sprinting less and less. Sometimes I'm just so scared, though; I'm so scared that I will stuff up my PP retreat, and so I will literally sprint in the other direction.
I wouldn't say PP into DSmash is useless. It's a very viable way to punish some characters' smash attacks if you miss the power shield, especially when the smash pushes you too far away to use FSmash (Little Mac's, for example).
I can't think of a time where I've punished something with a running usmash and think "damn, I wish that was a dsmash instead" because usmash kills so much earlier. I know why you mentioned Mac, and it's because the horizontal knockback gimp potential only matters on Mac, and I wouldn't go trying to punish his fsmash with smashes if you didn't perfect shield it. Depending on how well he spaced his fsmash, even dash attack won't punish his endlag (and dash attack is much faster than pp dsmash.)
Fox's foxtrot is incredibly easy to do. Go in the lab for 5 minutes and pefect it. Messing up a perfect pivot is 10x more likely.
Running UpSmash is slower than PP into DSmash, so many characters will be able to shield in time (Marth for instance).
I'm not sure what about Marth we're talking about, but you can running usmash all of his smashes on shield.
I meant frame disparity between PP and dashing+usmash sliding the same distance. If you have the frame data for that then I'd love to know.
I don't think people are talking down PP because it's a set distance. Foxtrots are a set distance and yet it's a popular form of movement.
I could easily agree with it becoming central for a Fox main. His PP seems to be a cut above the rest. Even Izaw saw it in his original video of zaw dancing. Everyday I use it more and start to wish I could implement it more consistently in various situations. His PP makes it much easier to micromanage spacing and stay "in" with the opponent without sacrificing options. However, i do think stutter stepping should be just as integral as PP, which I recall you stated as being key as well.
I think that running will still have a use though from time to time. Particularly against other speedy characters. PP shield lags a bit on reaction times (at least for me) because I have a brief moment of helplessness from the initial dash of the PP. A slow character would have a hard time surprising me since it is only 1 frame, but sonic or another fox could very well adapt to the spacing of the PP and expect it at high level play if the person only moves using PP. Stutter step does help this, but running in these cases could give more leniency in certain scenarios to react better to an attack. We'll see though as the meta develops whether or not this is true, but even with wavedashing, it did not become the sole movement option. It was integrated with all of the other movement options, and with time was implemented more, but never phased out the others entirely. Well, with exception to some characters like falco. I seldom see a falco just run in, he usually either wavedashes, or SH lasers the opponent into a grab as an approach, but there is good reason for that.
That is the only disagreement I kind of had, but I do agree that PP for fox at least, will become a core movement option interspersed with running, dashing, and stutter stepping. If PP becomes as big as you predict (and it might, but some top players are skeptical like JTails, and I do respect his opinions), then I could see the ratio of PP to dashing and stutter stepping leaning towards the PP. Jtails has stated that he thinks PP off of landing from a jump has great utility though.
Still, there will be some characters who benefit less from PP, and perhaps should seldom use it. Jiggly Puff from melee and Sm4sh are good examples of a char who does not NEED these options as much to compete against people who have mastered them. You will seldom see a good melee Puff wavedash with good reason, just as you probably will rarely see it PP. I think diddy and peach are two others that would benefit less from mastering PP with them, as it seems to be strongly tied to movement in the air, which both characters have much better horizontal movement than fox while in the air. Fox is a very grounded character that uses short hops in conjunction to ground movement to pick off aerial opponents. So it is not surprising that we perceive his PP a being a nice option.
It is a shame, you are quite right that we probably could not play, at least without tons of nasty lagggg
I enjoy the mental exercises that you are making me do though, which is why I want to play you lol
Of course, many would have said the same about L-cancelling and wave-dashing ;-).