Snakes B moves a bit lacking?

[SolidSonic]

As a huge fan of the MGS series and Snake himself, I'm of course gunning for Snake to be my main char. I am wary of how good he will be in Brawl though...

His combo kicks/punches look strong and effective, but his B moves seem to be... whats the word I'm looking for here. Unpractical? ineffective?



First off is the B grenade. It is similar to Links nade, but does not explode on contact so people can chunk it away relatively easily. X_x



Next is his Up-B. Notice how hes about to get smashed in by Link, while the missile goes straight up into the air. The explosion is probably big, but the move itself seems clunky, and people can see the missile coming anyways..



And his Down-B move, the land mine. I can imagine how this can be effective, one can place them near edges and stuff. Perhaps I'm just over analyzing the pic, but it looks like it might take a while to plant the mine. And hes seriously open to attack crouched over like that.... Opponents can just make a mental note of where the mine is, and most of the time one by itself wouldn't be very problematic.

Edit: Yes I now know this is not his down b, ignore this mistake.




Now his Side-B move, the Nikita missile. This one seems more hopeful then the others to me, still though he is very vulnerable to attack while in this position. He is about to get smashed by Ike, and I'm skeptical of the missiles trajectory... X_x This move kind of reminds me of Ness' move, forgot what its called but I wasn't exactly a fan on Ness..

Its not that I don't like a challenge, but Snakes B-move set leaves me very skeptical of his versatility. Snake is more practical then that, he wouldn't pull out a Nikita missile launcher while fighting three other people/characters.

Was an explosives heavy move set really the best choice? Don't flame, I know I'm probably being to paranoid and critical.


Thread update notice 12/23/07: I realize I made plenty of mistakes in this first post, thanks to all those who corrected me. I am to lazy to change the entire first post though, so I'm going to leave it as is.

 

[ComradeCanada]

Up-B is Cypher, Down B has not yet been released, those are smash attacks you have there.
Why does no one see the possibilities of the mine?
The sand could cause flinching and minor damage, and if he does it from the air, he sticks the mine to the character below him, causing massive damage quickly.

Also, you can hold the gernade until it's about ready to explode.

If they keep it accurate, the Nikita missile has a wicked acceleration and air life, making it superior to PK thunder.

Heck, I can see the cypher being useful, causing damage upon impact, and it seems like it'd be steerable.

Whats with all this Snake doubting?

 

[SolidSonic]

**** forgot about the Cypher... Well that one missile must be his Final Smash then?


I don't know why I doubt his moveset... Maybe its because in Melee I mained Falco. Falco's move set was ultra versatile.

You make good points though.

 

[ComradeCanada]

The missile and mine were smash attacks, A button attacks.

 

[Jisike]

-_-... the missile is his upsmash... did you even go to the DOJO?

and the nikita will make a really good edgeguard move if it knocks the opponent anywhere but up, and if it does knock them up, it can still be used as a follow up to end combos like ness' pk thunder.

a chucked nade will still do damage even if it doesn't explode, and i'm assuming you can throw it up and down too.

the cypher has massive vertical range and i believe freefalls like peach's upB.

i dont think snake has anything to worry about, if his attacks are anywhere near as useful as his specials...

*EDIT* i just thought about it, and if canceling the nikkita doesn't stop the missile, then you could even follow it after you locked in a trajectory...

 

[SolidSonic]

The missile and mine were smash attacks, A button attacks.

Thats weird... Well I don't have a Wii and don't know how the game would control.. Whatever just replace B with A.

His A moves seem awkward...

 

[Machspeed]

If you've watched trailer number two for SSB Brawl, he does in fact pull out a rocket launcher for smash attacks. (He dodge rolled behind pit and rocketed him on the floor)

On the note of his B moves, I don't think you should be worried; the mine I would imagine function like a motion sensor bomb, and lord knows how those kill people in melee matches. Also, if you've seen his video (intro video to brawl) he digs quite fast when he buries that mine. Very fast.

Don't worry, he'll be just fine.

 

[fums63]

Thats weird... Well I don't have a Wii and don't know how the game would control.. Whatever just replace B with A.

His A moves seem awkward...

it controls the same as gamecube (well thats wat control style most people will use) and so the c stick or holding a and a direction attacks (aka smash attacks) are those moves u said were up b and down b

 

[Machspeed]

it controls the same as gamecube (well thats wat control style most people will use) and so the c stick or holding a and a direction attacks (aka smash attacks) are those moves u said were up b and down b

Adding to that, you can use a classic controller (NES-resemblance), gamecube, wiimote, or wiimote and nunchuck.

You pick how you want to play.

 

[ComradeCanada]

*EDIT* i just thought about it, and if canceling the nikkita doesn't stop the missile, then you could even follow it after you locked in a trajectory...

In the Metal Gear Solid games, when you canceled the Nikita, it exploded.

Up Smash and other Stinger attacks though....

 

[Baka_Shade]

After reading this thread, I looked back at Snake's intro video and noticed something I don't think I've seen anyone mention. In the second shot after the codec conversation, you can see him detonating a mine remotely. I'm betting that's linked to his down smash somehow (If we're going on the assumption that his that's the one that plants the mine).

 

[Jisike]

Sorry but a lot of people have already made this conclusion lol.

 

[LuLLo]

Well we'll all have to see how it works out, the landmine could be planted near an edge, and his Nikita can be used to edgeguard, his grenades too, Snake's definitly a born edgeguarder...
Also we can't say if moves are weak or not effective to use, we don't know how much damage these moves will do, how big the explosions are or how much knockback they have.

 

[ComradeCanada]

^Also, he looks great at close, and long ranges. But medium seems to be difficult.

 

[RyNo 86]

I wouldn't worry about snake. The mine you could put on a platform and then you hit someone into it from below. His attacks should have fairly decent knockback them being mostly explosions and the physical CQC moves (close quarters combat) will be fast and versaltile, atleast that's what I saw from the trailer.

 

[SolidCrispy]

Who else would have liked to see Snake's SOCOM pistol as his standard B move if they could have it their way? I understand why they took it out, but I still would have preferred it.

 

[burrito]

Thats weird... Well I don't have a Wii and don't know how the game would control.. Whatever just replace B with A.

His A moves seem awkward...

You seem to be quite confused. Brawl controls exactly like Melee, the thing is, Snake is a very unique character. For Snake's smash attacks (which are usually just punches or kicks for most characters), he actually uses weapons. The mine and the missile are both smash attacks. The cypher, the nikita, and the grenade are all his special attacks (or B moves).

Anyhow, I think that Snake is going to turn out to be a pretty cool character.

 

[Lunar6]

Snake's smash attacks seem original to say the least, and his specials look versatile at best (maybe moreso than Link's long-range moves). I really haven't seen enough of him in-game to have a concrete opinion on him.

Overall, he seems pretty original from what I've seen.

 

[JesiahTEG]

He seems original, but if we based Snake on other characters with exploding projectiles...YL, Link, Samus, he's not gonna be all that great. Hopefully he is, but yeah that's just one way to look at it haha.

 

[WarMachine]

He seems original, but if we based Snake on other characters with exploding projectiles...YL, Link, Samus, he's not gonna be all that great. Hopefully he is, but yeah that's just one way to look at it haha.

Eh, Samus quality sounds about right to me actually. Really, it's not a bad place to be.

Good enough that you won't get rolled by anyone, not so good that everyone and their dog is playing the character.

High tier would still be nice, but it's hard to say at this point. Snakes moveset seems very weird. I'm just hoping weird doesn't end up being the same thing as crap.

 

[W.Jr]

His move are somewhat slow, though they still look sick. When we get the brawl we will figure out new ways of playing faster with moves like that.

 

[vato_break]

he has quite a unique move set
but it's for the best i guess
^that rthymes

 

[Twilightwolf]

Hmmm... I don't think that the land mine or the missile launcher (the one that fires straight up in the air, not any other ones) are on the A button at all. I think that the are both Down+B, but it differs with terrain. On a hard surface, he pulls out the rocket launcher, and on soft surfaces, he digs a hole for his landmine.

Also, Smash Attacks are powerful attacks that hit at close-range. I doubt that his Up-Smash is a vertical rocket launcher. The reason the Down-Smash is, is because the missile explodes about 3 ft from Snake.

Does this make sense?

 

[iron blade]

Hmmm... I don't think that the land mine or the missile launcher (the one that fires straight up in the air, not any other ones) are on the A button at all. I think that the are both Down+B, but it differs with terrain. On a hard surface, he pulls out the rocket launcher, and on soft surfaces, he digs a hole for his landmine.

Also, Smash Attacks are powerful attacks that hit at close-range. I doubt that his Up-Smash is a vertical rocket launcher. The reason the Down-Smash is, is because the missile explodes about 3 ft from Snake.

Does this make sense?

no, the land mine and missile launcher are definitely smash attacks. it says so on the dojo.

 

[geemann2236]

Snake's awesome, it doesn't matter if his B moves are bad, he's awesome.

 

[domiNate]

Dude Snake has huge potential for his upsmash. I'm just imagining spamming it when your opponent is in the air and repeatedly juggling them with it similar to pikachu's down b.

 

[verditude]

Yeah, Snake Kirby is awesome, but look at the grenade. It says "Delay 3.0". I guess that means the grenade explodes 3 seconds after pulling the pin. Is this good or bad?

 

[whiterob]

^^^
Dang someone beat me to it.

Three seconds in my opinion is fine. That seems faster than link's bombs, so it will probably be hard for the opponent to use it against you. Like, if you hold it for a second, and it takes a second to travel to the opponent, leaving them only a second to try and pick it up and throw it back.

 

[BuSHiDo]

I wouldn't say his B moves are lacking. Strange, yes, but not lacking. His up-B looks like a good recovery that can be steered for a few seconds. His grenades give him a good setup for combos, plus, if you notice in the third picture of him lightly tossing the grenade, I'd assume that would drop down very close to him. I wouldn't be surprised if that could be used as an awesome way to edge guard, especially against people who recover from down low. Imagine Zamus using her tether recovery and as she's retracting it and coming up she gets a 'nade in the face. Depending on if the 'nade has knockback, or if it just sorta pops you in place like Samus' bombs, it could end up being a good edge guard. Coupled with his side-B which is the nikita, that's another one that could end up being an awesome edge guard. Follow the guy out there and hit him and screw up his recovery momentum. It'll work wonders against guys like Ike who need momentum to recover nicely.

As for his smash attacks, they are unusual and will take some time to master, but even if they are slow, look at captain falcon's smashes. All powerful, but all hard to land. It doesn't really matter because with Falcon, all of his aerials more than make up for that and I'm guessing Snake's aerials along with his seemingly awesome CQC grabs will definitely more than make up for any lack of practicality regarding his smash attacks.

 

[BuSHiDo]

Yeah, Snake Kirby is awesome, but look at the grenade. It says "Delay 3.0". I guess that means the grenade explodes 3 seconds after pulling the pin. Is this good or bad?

I say it's good. The more time the nade takes to explode, the more time in advance you'd need to pull the pin. This just means you'd have to read your opponent better, have better timing, and have less time to toss the nade and move on to your next move. Think of Link's bombs. If they didn't explode on impact, think how hard they would be to use considering how long they take to blow up. I think 3 seconds is perfect, because if gives you just enough time to think and plan when to throw, but doesn't keep you waiting and distracted by it for too long.

 

[billythegoat]

Someone needs to fix the opening post. As many have said, the mine is his down smash and the vertical rocket is his up-smash.
His B-moves don't seem to be lacking but with his smash attacks being ranged then I think this will make him "clunky" and in effective at close range or "in the pocket zone" as I like to call it.

 

[Saor Gael]

Just a thought here; what if for Snake's down smash, the longer you charge it, the deeper you dig it? A non-charged one might be on the surface and easily seen. A fully charged one might disappear completely from view, making it harder to avoid!

Just a thought I had.

 

[billythegoat]

that sounds like a really good idea, but the questions that I would answered are: how many mines can you have out at one time, and does it explode after a set amount of time or when it is stepped on?

 

[SolidSonic]

Someone needs to fix the opening post. As many have said, the mine is his down smash and the vertical rocket is his up-smash.
His B-moves don't seem to be lacking but with his smash attacks being ranged then I think this will make him "clunky" and in effective at close range or "in the pocket zone" as I like to call it.

I realize I have been sufficiently corrected, and reassured. Wasn't really expecting this to get past a page, but w/e though I guess I'll update that minor tidbit.

I see what your saying about how he could be clunky, hopefully his CQC moves will allow him to pwn at close range though.

 

[Jumpinjahosafa]

that sounds like a really good idea, but the questions that I would answered are: how many mines can you have out at one time, and does it explode after a set amount of time or when it is stepped on?

Theres a clip of him setting off his mine. Which I would assume would be the Down A to set it of, so only one at a time can be set.

 

[Saor Gael]

Maybe one of his taunts detonates it . . . ? Or it could just be motion-sensitive. Hard to know until we play him.

Hell, maybe that clip of him setting off the bomb is from a cut-scene.

 

[OrlanduEX]

Has anyone considered the possibility of Nikita Missile Cancel Spamming?
If you can cancel the Missile fast enough, you could probably use it the way Short Hop Lasers are used now.

The only thing I don't like about Snakes B moves is the Cypher thing. From what we saw in the "Snake joins the Brawl" trailer, it seems kinda slow.

 

[Gerudo Warrior]

we can assume he has full control of the cypher.

 

[=Snake=]

I was a bit disappointed when I first saw Snake's special move-set. I knew there was little chance of him having his SOCOM, and that he was destined to use more.. explosive ordnance, which really gives the impression that he's some kind of John McClane. But with Snake you know he's going to have a series of quick, hard-hitting CQC combos, so I guess if it comes down to someone dodging your grenade attempts or Nikita strike, you still have the wherewithal to beat their ****ing ***.

my personal opinion on Snake's move set. (with the exception of those that I agree with)

Up B- (Leap of Faith) Strong third jump that sends Snake upward at an angle with his arms stretched out in desperation. If contact with another player is made, Snake tags the player with a grenade and flips backward away from the imminent mid-air explosion.

Neutral B- (EZ Gun) Small, single shot pistol that uses tranquilizers instead of standard ammunition. It fires at a low rate of speed, but if shots are consecutive Snake's enemy will begin to slow and gradually fall asleep if darts are left in. (i.e. the player shot with the tranquilizer will have to perform moves to shake the darts that are left in their skin before they become temporarily unconscious.)

Though I'm not totally against the hand grenade, it just seems more practical to use something that isn't going to be hurled back at you.. Then again, seeing someone pick up your hand grenade but not having enough time to throw it seems rewarding. The Nikita is a good side B, I'm just hoping it's not too demanding when it comes to hitting your target. I don't think they've discussed a down B yet, but it'll be interesting to see what it is.