Snake, Wolf

[TechnoMonster]

****, Snake is a ***** with everyone, but Pika especially against a top level snake the matchup seems pretty unwinnable. Gimmie help, these are my big trouble spots:

• Openings for Grabs and Smashes
  There are none? Help me out here guys?
• Spacing
  It seems counterproductive almost.
• Projectile gets owned by jab.
  Jolt is kind of situational.
• Crossing up vs. Tilts
  Against bad snakes I usually just roll behind an f-tilt and then either grab or tilt to get a free hit in while they're finishing up, but with Pika it seems that this just isn't worthwhile, and not only that, the Snake I play against has gotten into the habit of just turning around while I roll and punishing me.
• Shield Grenades
  The most annoying **** of all time, even if there is a miniscule opening, it is nearly impossible to follow it up because snake can just pull a grenade quickly and shield the attack.
• Percentage trading.
  How do I beat a guy when a properly DI'd downsmash does 8% and doesn't combo into jack, f-air does like 9%, meanwhile his tilts eat me for 18% and his grabs throw me into his other explosives? Especially when he can counterattack all of my aerials for hella gay damage when he's at low%. I can eat 40% in 3 seconds at any time against a good Snake.
• Killing
  How do I get around good mindgames? Thunder is effective sometimes, but I have to knock him up or well off the stage to set it up. For this question, please pretend I'm facing DSF, not your scrubby snake buddy.
• Juggling
  Seems to be pretty effective, but I can't really score more than 20% with Pika's ugly u-air. Do you guys do any cool juggles?

Wolf is the other big obstacle. Here's my strategy:
F-air poke occasionally and space as a mind game
Punish F-smashes all day
Space his recovery and smash him back off
Chaingrab until 20-30 and then f-throw setups
KO with F-smash or N-air and finish with thunder as needed
Punish spot dodges with slightly charged smashes and D-smashes.

Problems include getting mindgamed a lot with backairs and f-smashes and such, getting grabbed a lot, and lasers being helluva annoying.

 

[Tagxy]

QAC owns snakes. I've never had a problem with snake. Jolts still make a good approach, as does the QAC.

 

[Spyckie]

From what I've seen of snakes, you can't get near them without eating a tilt, and the tilts hurt like a mofo.

I don't know what to do against a good Snake, but I can provide some suggestions and things to try out.

first, the thunderjolt is not meant to be eaten by jabs. Its really there to stop such things like mortar dashing, grenade pulling, and camping in general. It makes them move, or if they still try to camp, it makes the game boring. If they jab-eat your thunderjolts, be glad and keep it up - they could be mining up the stage or grenading you.

Second, it sounds like you have trouble with Snake's defense, and you are attacking too much. All the things you mentioned are things Pikachu does on the offense. Pikachu's great, but you seem to be fighting Snake where he's strong at. Pikachu struggles sometimes to successfully attack defensive opponents (see anther vs overswarm for a good example - OS often just sits there waiting for pikachu to come to him), and it seems like the Snake you're fighting just waits for you to attack him close range (where snakes tilts outpower Pikachu's attacks). I think its crucial as Pikachu to be able to make the opponent move, or leave their defensive outpost (if possible). This means, you need to throw some chaos into the game to make people move around or get out of their safety zone. If they stay in their safety zone, (in this case, snake's close ground game), its difficult to beat them.

On the matchup in particular:

Snakes have this rhythym, where if you're in close combat, they start tilting like mad, and if you're out of close combat, they do the dash-mortars, pull out grenades, lay mines, and all that stuff that makes it life suck if you can't outspam them. Pikachu suffers from having a weak tradeoff game against Snake, so unless you're very precise in close combat, avoid staying there for too long. However, Pikachu is one of the few characters that can deal with (and outclass) Snake's long range game.

I think the key is to get the Snake confused by moving constantly in between his close range game and his long range game. Pikachu is very mobile and should always be moving around, and you want to make the snake try to attack you, not the other way around. However, you shouldn't be just running away - running away while providing pressure (thunderjolt, or running away and QAC-nair) is what Pikachu is great at.

I think anther has a fight against snake, although its only the last half of the match...

here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixVfWgGcaKg

notice carefully how when anther comes close, snake starts tilting, and when anther leaves, the snake starts cooking grenades, mortar dashing, etc. Its the transition period, when you leave (but not really, you throw in some attacks or what not to disrupt them) that you get some nice attacks in, and where they're unprepared to defend a jolt (or a QAC or whatnot). Also, snake's edgeguarding and grenade pulling doesn't do anything to anther -> that's the main strength of pikachu - you leave snake left with nothing left but his tilts.

 

[Ekoix.exe]

****, Snake is a ***** with everyone, but Pika especially against a top level snake the matchup seems pretty unwinnable. Gimmie help, these are my big trouble spots:

• Openings for Grabs and Smashes
  There are none? Help me out here guys?
• Spacing
  It seems counterproductive almost.
• Projectile gets owned by jab.
  Jolt is kind of situational.
• Crossing up vs. Tilts
  Against bad snakes I usually just roll behind an f-tilt and then either grab or tilt to get a free hit in while they're finishing up, but with Pika it seems that this just isn't worthwhile, and not only that, the Snake I play against has gotten into the habit of just turning around while I roll and punishing me.
• Shield Grenades
  The most annoying **** of all time, even if there is a miniscule opening, it is nearly impossible to follow it up because snake can just pull a grenade quickly and shield the attack.
• Percentage trading.
  How do I beat a guy when a properly DI'd downsmash does 8% and doesn't combo into jack, f-air does like 9%, meanwhile his tilts eat me for 18% and his grabs throw me into his other explosives? Especially when he can counterattack all of my aerials for hella gay damage when he's at low%. I can eat 40% in 3 seconds at any time against a good Snake.
• Killing
  How do I get around good mindgames? Thunder is effective sometimes, but I have to knock him up or well off the stage to set it up. For this question, please pretend I'm facing DSF, not your scrubby snake buddy.
• Juggling
  Seems to be pretty effective, but I can't really score more than 20% with Pika's ugly u-air. Do you guys do any cool juggles?

Wolf is the other big obstacle. Here's my strategy:
F-air poke occasionally and space as a mind game
Punish F-smashes all day
Space his recovery and smash him back off
Chaingrab until 20-30 and then f-throw setups
KO with F-smash or N-air and finish with thunder as needed
Punish spot dodges with slightly charged smashes and D-smashes.

Problems include getting mindgamed a lot with backairs and f-smashes and such, getting grabbed a lot, and lasers being helluva annoying.

• Openings for Grabs and Smashes
  Dair, Fsmash, Up smash.
• Spacing
  ???
• Projectile gets owned by jab.
  Nono, SPAM IT SPAMMM IT
• Crossing up vs. Tilts
  Stop rolling, More spot dodging and downsmashing.
• Shield Grenades
  Play defensively.
• Percentage trading.
  Play defensively, capitilize on your multi hit attacks.
• Killing
  Thunder is your friend. But for seriousness, Its really about timing and your own mind games.
• Juggling
  Down throw.

 

[Dream Land Works]

Openings for Grabs and Smashes

Try to shield an attack then grab or shield then smash. Also if they try to tilt and you are able to roll away, try Forward Smash or Down Smash because it should connect.

Spacing

When you are spacing, you want to still be able to reach him with Forward Smash and short hop aerials. Really though, I think close combat and long range combat is what works for Pikachu here.

Projectile gets owned by jab.

Jolt is indeed situational, just use full jump/short hop Thunder Jolts (hehe, why even use it any other way in the first place) when they are open and also Thunder Jolt stops the Snake Dashing (Sliding Up Smash, Mortar Slide, you get the idea).

Crossing up vs. Tilts

Shield to Down Smash should be a better option and if they start to shield the down smash, shield to grab instead.

Shield Grenades

Grab Snake, forward throw, and chase after him with a aerial, Up Smash, or start juggling.

Percentage trading.

Thus, try to keep following up your moves with stuff you know will work or try to keep at long range. Pikachu is faster than Snake which should even this out more slightly (defiantly not a perfect even out though cause Snake's attacks are too good).

Killing

Snake is defiantly hard to KO. So a few good ways to KO Snake are Up Smash to Thunder; getting Snake off the edge and grab him during his recovery; Attack with f-air to stop the recovery, then follow up with n-air during his recovery (high percentages to KO); Skull Bash while Snake is recovering (Snake has a good, but predictable recovery). These are the types of KO's you will usually want to go for, though a Shield to Forward Smash can work if it isn't stale.

Juggling

U-Smash, U-Throw, U-Tilt, and maybe (never tested it on Snake) D-Throw will get Snake up for juggling. Then use Up Tilts, Up Smash, and Up Airs to juggle. When you can't juggle anymore with the same jump from an Up Air, shield or dodge whatever Snake has coming for you then you can try to follow up with more juggling or anything else that will work. Also U-Air to N-Air can be a nice semi juggle to KO with, if they are at high percentages. Also I beileve Pikachu can chain grab Snake with Down Throw, the problem is though is I haven't been trying it against Snakes recently.

 

[gallax]

this section should be really great for the matchup thread. oh yeah.

 

[TechnoMonster]

• Openings for Grabs and Smashes
  Dair, Fsmash, Up smash.
• Spacing
  ???
• Projectile gets owned by jab.
  Nono, SPAM IT SPAMMM IT
• Crossing up vs. Tilts
  Stop rolling, More spot dodging and downsmashing.
• Shield Grenades
  Play defensively.
• Percentage trading.
  Play defensively, capitilize on your multi hit attacks.
• Killing
  Thunder is your friend. But for seriousness, Its really about timing and your own mind games.
• Juggling
  Down throw.

This post was not helpful at all. Spotdodging and downsmashing is sometimes effective but spot dodges are, in general, a bad idea and a bad percentage trade, especially if they know how to DI the d-smash, you'll never land a kill and only really get a few percent off of it.

Jolt spam is ... I guess it gives you some impetus, but the point is to land hits, and spamming jolt is kinda bleh for that.

Exactly how do I capitalize on my multi-hit attacks? What does that even mean? Use f-air and d-smash a lot?

Yes I know that about killing, and countering stuff with well timed thunders upsmashes dsmashes etc at the right percents is a great way to land KOs, BUT THERE IS NO OPENING THROUGH THE TILTS FOR ANY OF THESE MOVES. The only thing I can really land is f-smash because it kind of competes with f-tilt on a range level, but what do I do when he jumps over it with a D-air?

Also, ever tried to grab a good snake? I get maybe 2-3 grabs a match, however, when I can get under him or actually get a grab, u-airs seem to be pretty good.

 

[Roller]

****, Snake is a ***** with everyone, but Pika especially against a top level snake the matchup seems pretty unwinnable. Gimmie help, these are my big trouble spots:

• Openings for Grabs and Smashes
  There are none? Help me out here guys?
• Spacing
  It seems counterproductive almost.
• Projectile gets owned by jab.
  Jolt is kind of situational.
• Crossing up vs. Tilts
  Against bad snakes I usually just roll behind an f-tilt and then either grab or tilt to get a free hit in while they're finishing up, but with Pika it seems that this just isn't worthwhile, and not only that, the Snake I play against has gotten into the habit of just turning around while I roll and punishing me.
• Shield Grenades
  The most annoying **** of all time, even if there is a miniscule opening, it is nearly impossible to follow it up because snake can just pull a grenade quickly and shield the attack.
• Percentage trading.
  How do I beat a guy when a properly DI'd downsmash does 8% and doesn't combo into jack, f-air does like 9%, meanwhile his tilts eat me for 18% and his grabs throw me into his other explosives? Especially when he can counterattack all of my aerials for hella gay damage when he's at low%. I can eat 40% in 3 seconds at any time against a good Snake.
• Killing
  How do I get around good mindgames? Thunder is effective sometimes, but I have to knock him up or well off the stage to set it up. For this question, please pretend I'm facing DSF, not your scrubby snake buddy.
• Juggling
  Seems to be pretty effective, but I can't really score more than 20% with Pika's ugly u-air. Do you guys do any cool juggles?

Wolf is the other big obstacle. Here's my strategy:
F-air poke occasionally and space as a mind game
Punish F-smashes all day
Space his recovery and smash him back off
Chaingrab until 20-30 and then f-throw setups
KO with F-smash or N-air and finish with thunder as needed
Punish spot dodges with slightly charged smashes and D-smashes.

Problems include getting mindgamed a lot with backairs and f-smashes and such, getting grabbed a lot, and lasers being helluva annoying.

IDK WTF you are talking about. Snake is a favorable matchup for pika...