8AngeL8
Smash Lord
I feel most comfortable on Smashville as Snake. It's almost perfectly flat, and the size is such that you can cover the whole thing in a mortar slide. It seems perfect for Snake's spacing to me.
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Snake Stage Discussion Thread
- Thread starter SuSa
- Start date
Nope
Smash Lord
I don't think FD is the best I prefer Battlefield more then any other stage with Snake. Norfair on the other hand is not very good for snake. It causes snake to constantly move in the air and ruins the effectiveness of his mortar slide. Snakes movement is really limited on this map and it should be avoided.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Smashville > Battlefield > Lylat Cruise > Yoshi's Island (Brawl) > Final Destination
Why the **** would you ever choose FD? (I'm talking only neutrals)
Smashville > or = Battlfield (on second thought...)
2 platforms rather then 1, smaller camping area, but you lose a moving projectile, and you can get caught under BF >.> (easier then you can on Smashville it seems like)
just IMO
Why the **** would you ever choose FD? (I'm talking only neutrals)
Smashville > or = Battlfield (on second thought...)
2 platforms rather then 1, smaller camping area, but you lose a moving projectile, and you can get caught under BF >.> (easier then you can on Smashville it seems like)
just IMO
SuSa
Banned via Administration
You also get dominated by people who can outcamp you.. (Falco)
Now then:
Next Discussion is Final Destination! (I'll edit the OP when I have time)
Now then:
Next Discussion is Final Destination! (I'll edit the OP when I have time)
DUB
Smash Lord
Just stopping by.
Ermm..... Frigate.
C4 + Frigate = Untraceable.
Ermm..... Frigate.
C4 + Frigate = Untraceable.
Cat Fight
Smash Lord
Snake's best stages are Metroid stages, just saying.
Also, if and when I decide to update my old topic should I still post in it or because this is sticky should I post here?. . .
Also, if and when I decide to update my old topic should I still post in it or because this is sticky should I post here?. . .
Toneh
Smash Lord
good info so far fellas =).
pic's help alot.
pic's help alot.
SamuraiPanda
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 22, 2006
- Messages
- 6,924
I would much rather take ICs to FD than any other neutral. Although I'm probably in the minority for thinking that.
Nope
Smash Lord
I agree with Panda there are quite a few characters that I would CP and take them to FD for some extra room to camp. Especially after already playing Smashville or BF in the set
yellowroy
Smash Ace
Why don't you use the Counterpick's that they use on the matchup thread?
Nope
Smash Lord
1 all the characters arn't in the matchup thread and 2 just because it's a suggested stage doesn't mean it's the absolute best. Sure it will be a good pick but the game is still young and it's good to experiment around and know different stages. Also Some of the suggested stages the player may not be as comfortable on and I believe that is a big deciding factor when counter picking a stage.
For example they say norfair would be a good CP against falco because it's harder for him to spike you due to the lava. The experience I have against falcos on that stage is horrible. he can out camp you here very easily with his laser, your mortar gets shined back down to you if you try to use it from below and he can get extra easy percent by spiking you down into the lava. The stage also makes snake move around in the air a lot and I think it makes it very tough on snake there. I would op to ban this stage against falco but Jungle japes is about 10 times worse so I have to do that.
You also have to think about how much experience someone has on that stage compared to you. If so and so has a bad match up against you on pirate ship but you have played pirate ship only a handful of times compared to there 20-30 times then they might surprise you when you take them there. Now I guess this can be easily fixed by practicing your CP options often but we all know that doesn't happen a whole lot when you are playing friendlies.
For example they say norfair would be a good CP against falco because it's harder for him to spike you due to the lava. The experience I have against falcos on that stage is horrible. he can out camp you here very easily with his laser, your mortar gets shined back down to you if you try to use it from below and he can get extra easy percent by spiking you down into the lava. The stage also makes snake move around in the air a lot and I think it makes it very tough on snake there. I would op to ban this stage against falco but Jungle japes is about 10 times worse so I have to do that.
You also have to think about how much experience someone has on that stage compared to you. If so and so has a bad match up against you on pirate ship but you have played pirate ship only a handful of times compared to there 20-30 times then they might surprise you when you take them there. Now I guess this can be easily fixed by practicing your CP options often but we all know that doesn't happen a whole lot when you are playing friendlies.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Starting playing tourney set friendlies with tourney rules and tourney CP's.
All problems mentioned above have been fixed.
NOTE:
Snake is a ****ing god at Norfair.... once you learn to control the stage, drop c4 without being seen, and using the edges to do some pretty flashy grenade mindgames.
I beat someone I should have lost to badly... on Norfair ^_^ it's my new favorite Snake CP.
(yeah! no more CP'ing smashville/battlefield >.>)
All problems mentioned above have been fixed.
NOTE:
Snake is a ****ing god at Norfair.... once you learn to control the stage, drop c4 without being seen, and using the edges to do some pretty flashy grenade mindgames.
I beat someone I should have lost to badly... on Norfair ^_^ it's my new favorite Snake CP.
(yeah! no more CP'ing smashville/battlefield >.>)
Nope
Smash Lord
please post vids of awesome snake madness on norfair for me then? I would love to see what I need to do =p
Snake doesn't get angry. He gets murderous.
P.S. Most of the chars I play love norfair....
or at least I love norfair, because pikmen camping is practically gone, but I still love it.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Pick 3 counterpicks you have problems with as Snake, I'll make a vid just for you about those 3.
Make sure one of those 3 is Norfair =p
I'll show you the tips and tricks and complete epicness he has on each one of those 3 levels.
Actually, I eventually plan to have a Tips and Tricks video for each of the levels by itself
but since we won't be doing counterpicks for a while... may as well take a request and get those 3 videos done with.
SuSa
Banned via Administration
I know this Taeran, I can't brawl until 3pm-5pm PMT however.
OP will be updated soon, got the image of FD =p
Nope
Smash Lord
Norfair is my main concern and could you make it against falco please? Other then that I'm not sure how about brinstar? I like the stage but I would also like to see what others like to do and how like they to play on it. Jungle Japes and Rainbow Cruise are always bad in my book as well but 9/10 times I ban rainbow so it's not really an issue.
Nope
Smash Lord
It will take me a week but I should get be able to get some videos of myself vs falco on norfair because I will be on vacation for Christmas this next week but I'll try soon
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Ban RC against MK and ban JJ against anyone with a spike, especially Falco.
I'll cover the 3 Metroid stages :3 will give me an excuse to make it all in 1 video
Oh, BTW, I'm only covering Snake tips and tricks, not character strategies.
That'd take months... but I can give you my general thoughts about Norfair vs Falco
1. Stay away from the bottom platform when below 40% (CG + Boost Pivot Grab + CG to spike...)
2. Always have a C4 on the inner parts of one of the 2 top platforms.
3. Have a mine underneath it on the middle platform.
4. Attempt to camp on the other side
5. Avoid lava
6. Throw your opponent into lava, then nair them back into lava, then try and uair them
7. Camp on the middle platform, never the top one (when opponent gets closer)
8. Nikita is awesome and hard to see here, I sometimes shoot it, aim it straight up, and hope my opponent shoots a projectile at me, then I go and **** them. I've had a nikita fall from the sky, hit my opponent who almost got into that safe house thing, then he got hit my lava and died. /most epic Norfair kill
wouldn't norfair ruin falco's laser game? and severly shorten his chaingrab?
I mean, if he spams lasers, change platforms, and if he spikes, either the lava will save you, or you'll have plenty of time to C4 Recover
~PsykoTek~
Smash Cadet
What would be the best stage to counter pick against D3 or Falco?
yellowroy
Smash Ace
Counterpick FD on G&W.
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 19,345
Not sure for D3, but for Falco any stage that has few large areas of flatness cripples the laser and chaingrab. But the best legal stage I can think of is either brinstar or norfair, espically for easy stage control for Snake. Not so sure for a neutal stage since they all of them (except FD) are pretty similar in a Snake-Falco Match up, although battlefield would be my best guess.
All true, but Falco and still give Snake a hard time on this stage.
The platforms on norfair are still big enough that one can still get a full chaingrab down with the reverse boost pivot grab, but it is still difficult to get, and what Havokk said before, do not be at the bottom platform as falco for sure can chaingrab you there.
Falco still has a laser game here it is just not nearly as effective as it would on a flat stage. Falco loses his campy ability (unless the lava raises to fill the bottom platforms) and the lasers do not limit Snake as much when used at a distance because snake can change platforms (falco is pretty much forced to approach on this level), but in close range the lasers can still combo into a lot of attacks. His full hop from the bottom platform can reach all the way to the top platform.
To me, falco really only does well on norfair against snake, if Snake does utilize his ability to have good stage control effectively.
Nic64
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2003
- Messages
- 1,725
I think orpheon is a good stage against falco and a great snake stage in general, in the first phase when the platform is up it's very claustrophobic and makes it hard for falco to just run away and laser you, and the right side not having a ledge makes falco's recovery much easier to exploit while snake, who typically wants to get way the **** above the stage anyway, is much less affected. and the left side is way too easy to defend, one of my favorite ledges if not my favorite in the entire game for snake traps. the darkness makes it hard to see C4 too, and the platforms that come in from the sides could potentially save you from having to blow yourself up every now and then. the second phase isn't too bad for falco but I think orpheon is a great choice, might also be because I just love the stage anyway.
Mackorony101
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2007
- Messages
- 69
ya
I like to plant the C4s on the moving platform of Smashville
When you have some distance and the platform is above them just detonate
I like to plant the C4s on the moving platform of Smashville
When you have some distance and the platform is above them just detonate
CSBrokaw
Smash Cadet
Final Destination:
Snake is given a large amount of space for maneuvering: using his Mortar-Slide, you can do some easy hit-and-run tactics on slower characters that do not have projectiles. Just hit them with a tilt or some jabs (maybe a few aerials) and if they try to retaliate, you are out of there and ready to repeat the process.
If your opponent is clairvoyant or just good at predicting these tactics, the large amount of space means you can camp them out, assuming they have no projectiles. An easy setup is to plant your C4 near the edge closest to you, and your mine, which in my opinion unless you are at the point of edgeguarding should be planted in the middle of the stage, giving you more room. Be careful about the mine, though, it limits your Mortar-Sliding depending on where you planted it. Hang out right by your C4 when not attacking (which should be close to never), get closer (not too close) and throw some shield-dropped and cooked grenades at the opponent, retreating back to the C4 between grenades.
If the opponent tries to approach, grab them and throw them toward your mine or the C4 and blow them up, or down-throw and predict where they are going and follow up with a chase-grab or if you are absolutely confident of where they are going, F-Smash them as fast as you can (I have gotten some easy kills this way). Also, hanging out near the C4 and just using your Nikita works for larger opponents, assuming you have decent accuracy. Just box them in somehow and then get them off of the edge as soon as you can.
Edgeguarding has a number of possibilities on this map. The most simple and one of the first things a Snake should learn about edgeguarding is planting a C4 on the arrow second-closest to the edge and a mine on the closer arrow (or vice-versa, I tend to do it vice-versa). This limits your opponents options to jumping -- assuming that your mine is not too close to the edge and you can time the detonation of your C4 properly -- meaning you can attack them with your Nikita or a preferred aerial. Snake can go surprisingly far off of the stage and KO someone at the right percents and recover with ease, so I would encourage you to do this, especially if you have botched your edge setup. If you are not confident with this, the easiest strategy is definitely setting up a Mortar-Wall; your opponent is bound to get hit by a shell unless they have excellent timing. A surpise F-Smash when they try to grab the edge has also gotten me a few satisfying kills, so try it sometime..
Trying to go against characters who do have projectiles is painful (as you can prove with Snake), especially the arrow or laser using characters. But, once again, you have your Mortar-Slide and and crawling, so it makes it a little easier for you to approach them and beat them with your tilts and jabs, which have superb priority and makes it more difficult for the projectile using character to camp you.
The worst opponent to brawl against would have to be the smaller, fast-moving projectile characters such as Fox, Falco, Wolf, and especially Pikachu for his B and Down-B -- easy tactics for the player to use against Snake for racking up damage. I have found that Toon Link, Pit, and even King Dedede (for his Waddle Dees) to give me trouble on this stage also. Remember though, just because the opponent is one of those characters and you are Snake does not mean that you automatically lose, it just means that you have to pay more attention.
The ideal opponent, not surprisingly, would be a slower, heavier, non-projectile using character such as Bowser (well, he has his flame, but you get my point), Donkey Kong, Ganondorf, or Ike. This is a great counterpick against one of those opponents. Since they rely on getting close to you, you can camp them with your C4, your Mines, your Nikita, and your Grenades, making it easy for you to predict when they want to jump so that you can hit them with your best aerials. Plus, edgeguarding them is a lot easier because of their size, so you can spike them or nail them off the side of the stage with your aerials or projectiles. In general, characters without projectiles are the ones you would want to face on this map, especially ones with predictable recovery.
I would also like to take the time to mention that Snake can live at ridiculously high percentages (150% and up for me) on Final Destination, assuming proper DI. Sometimes, he can get stuck under the lip when trying to Cypher his way back up, but I can usually get back to the stage using the C4 and another Cypher. His recovery is extremely predictable though, and an opponent can take advantage of this with ease. Always try to recover above the opponent, never below.
That is all.
Snake is given a large amount of space for maneuvering: using his Mortar-Slide, you can do some easy hit-and-run tactics on slower characters that do not have projectiles. Just hit them with a tilt or some jabs (maybe a few aerials) and if they try to retaliate, you are out of there and ready to repeat the process.
If your opponent is clairvoyant or just good at predicting these tactics, the large amount of space means you can camp them out, assuming they have no projectiles. An easy setup is to plant your C4 near the edge closest to you, and your mine, which in my opinion unless you are at the point of edgeguarding should be planted in the middle of the stage, giving you more room. Be careful about the mine, though, it limits your Mortar-Sliding depending on where you planted it. Hang out right by your C4 when not attacking (which should be close to never), get closer (not too close) and throw some shield-dropped and cooked grenades at the opponent, retreating back to the C4 between grenades.
If the opponent tries to approach, grab them and throw them toward your mine or the C4 and blow them up, or down-throw and predict where they are going and follow up with a chase-grab or if you are absolutely confident of where they are going, F-Smash them as fast as you can (I have gotten some easy kills this way). Also, hanging out near the C4 and just using your Nikita works for larger opponents, assuming you have decent accuracy. Just box them in somehow and then get them off of the edge as soon as you can.
Edgeguarding has a number of possibilities on this map. The most simple and one of the first things a Snake should learn about edgeguarding is planting a C4 on the arrow second-closest to the edge and a mine on the closer arrow (or vice-versa, I tend to do it vice-versa). This limits your opponents options to jumping -- assuming that your mine is not too close to the edge and you can time the detonation of your C4 properly -- meaning you can attack them with your Nikita or a preferred aerial. Snake can go surprisingly far off of the stage and KO someone at the right percents and recover with ease, so I would encourage you to do this, especially if you have botched your edge setup. If you are not confident with this, the easiest strategy is definitely setting up a Mortar-Wall; your opponent is bound to get hit by a shell unless they have excellent timing. A surpise F-Smash when they try to grab the edge has also gotten me a few satisfying kills, so try it sometime..
Trying to go against characters who do have projectiles is painful (as you can prove with Snake), especially the arrow or laser using characters. But, once again, you have your Mortar-Slide and and crawling, so it makes it a little easier for you to approach them and beat them with your tilts and jabs, which have superb priority and makes it more difficult for the projectile using character to camp you.
The worst opponent to brawl against would have to be the smaller, fast-moving projectile characters such as Fox, Falco, Wolf, and especially Pikachu for his B and Down-B -- easy tactics for the player to use against Snake for racking up damage. I have found that Toon Link, Pit, and even King Dedede (for his Waddle Dees) to give me trouble on this stage also. Remember though, just because the opponent is one of those characters and you are Snake does not mean that you automatically lose, it just means that you have to pay more attention.
The ideal opponent, not surprisingly, would be a slower, heavier, non-projectile using character such as Bowser (well, he has his flame, but you get my point), Donkey Kong, Ganondorf, or Ike. This is a great counterpick against one of those opponents. Since they rely on getting close to you, you can camp them with your C4, your Mines, your Nikita, and your Grenades, making it easy for you to predict when they want to jump so that you can hit them with your best aerials. Plus, edgeguarding them is a lot easier because of their size, so you can spike them or nail them off the side of the stage with your aerials or projectiles. In general, characters without projectiles are the ones you would want to face on this map, especially ones with predictable recovery.
I would also like to take the time to mention that Snake can live at ridiculously high percentages (150% and up for me) on Final Destination, assuming proper DI. Sometimes, he can get stuck under the lip when trying to Cypher his way back up, but I can usually get back to the stage using the C4 and another Cypher. His recovery is extremely predictable though, and an opponent can take advantage of this with ease. Always try to recover above the opponent, never below.
That is all.
Tero.
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Messages
- 2,686
And even DDD ?
DDD is like one of Snake's worst Matchups lol
but not because of his Waddle Dees, more bc of his chaingrab and edgeguarding.
And Fox and Wolf ? c'mon Fox blaster has no knockback so you can easily approach and iirc dacus is pretty fast, so i assume using it if he tries to camp you out with his little blaster.
Falco can be pretty hard if you are below 40% where he can cg you, i usually blow myself up with c4 and stuff to get above 40% but yeah ... w/e
FD is a pretty bad choice against characters with chaingrabs (DDD, Falco, etc.)
Nope
Smash Lord
Havokk wtb vids!
TwentyTwo
Smash Ace
Can someone steal Havokk's info or something, I'd like to get the stage discussion back, because when I go to tournaments I feel stage inexperience get's me good when I'm counterpicked against.
Panix
Smash Ace
3D is snakes worst matchup. but i don't think its 35:65 I think its 40:60. 3D is to easy to Tech chase and nades do well. but his CG Dtilt is murderious. and his bair isn't pretty. who wins off stage? 3D no problem who wins on stage? 3D no problem who wins in air? 3D no problem.
THAT SUCKS
Also, If I had to say a stage to pick against D3 it would be norfair. I know his air game is buffed here but his CG is really gimped
yellowroy
Smash Ace
Havokk update please!
Corax The Cold
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2007
- Messages
- 324
i just recently started playing/decided to main snake
so far i like stages like battlefield and smashville of course, but im also liking yoshi's island (melee) and distant planet. I find it easy to camp the up hill slopes with mines, c4 and mortars. also snake can finish people off at low % with his powerful forward and back throws, but of course you risk being killed yourself.
so far i like stages like battlefield and smashville of course, but im also liking yoshi's island (melee) and distant planet. I find it easy to camp the up hill slopes with mines, c4 and mortars. also snake can finish people off at low % with his powerful forward and back throws, but of course you risk being killed yourself.