Snake: Q&A

[Omni]

Noticed there wasn't a Snake Q&A thread so... boomshackalacka.

Ask any and all misc. questions you have about Snake here.

 

[Mischief]

How many people use default controls for Dacus? If not, what do you use?

 

[Omni]

How many people use default controls for Dacus? If not, what do you use?

I use the default controls. I believe it's... just dash, down on c-stick, then a well timed up + z.

It's frustrating because DACUS'ing with Snake is such a strong and vital approach given his lackluster approach game, but failing to execute on the DACUS puts you in a really bad spot. Some days I'm really on with the DACUS; other days I'm completely off.

 

[Matty89]

I use the default controls. I believe it's... just dash, down on c-stick, then a well timed up + z.

You would be better off using A instead of Z. I use to claw It, awkward at first but the results increased to 90%

How many people use default controls for Dacus? If not, what do you use?

I now use R attack. Makes it 10 times easier than claw or 100x better than Z. Again awkward, but you gotta be willing to learn something new if you want to improve. You'll get better results with something comfortable to you that isn't a big sacrifice. Life is a trade off, just weigh the pros and cons.

 

[Omni]

Yeah, no. That's my shield/wavedash button.

 

[Professor Pro]

Who is the best Snake player?

 

[Bloodcross]

I'm gonna have to give that award to Ally

mikeray4 is a close second.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Is the f-smash mixup between 3rd hit or not hit safe or is there an on-reaction method against it?

 

[Professor Pro]

Is the f-smash mixup between 3rd hit or not hit safe or is there an on-reaction method against it?

It can be safe at range, but it's not safe on block.

 

[FlashingFire]

Is there invincibility on Snake's Up-B? I've heard lots of people say different things about this - according to the frame data thread the answer is yes, but it'd be nice to get that verified.

 

[Omni]

Yes and no?

The Cypher creates a shield-like hitbox that has amazing priority, but I don't think Snake gets invincibility. I recall doing up-b out of shield and it trading with another move immediately when it came out. You could also test it out by having a Falco laser you and timing an up-b to see if it passes through since transcendent property moves won't trade.

 

[Professor Pro]

Is there invincibility on Snake's Up-B? I've heard lots of people say different things about this - according to the frame data thread the answer is yes, but it'd be nice to get that verified.

@ Omni & @ FlashingFire

The grounded Up B has 4 frames of invincibility at the beginning, and it comes out on frames 5, so it's invincible until the hitbox starts.
The aerial Up B doesn't have any invincibility on it.

 

[Diddy on your face]

Can you reload side b besides after 3 shots?

 

[Mischief]

Press L /R right after pressing side b, right before the animation starts. I don't know the frame data but it's rather quick. You can reload after your first/second shot this way.

 

[Omni]

1.) Against Lucas, I notice that if I place a d-smash mine at the very edge he gets hit by it when he attempts to tether onto the stage. But I'm not entirely sure if this is 100% consistent. Can anyone confirm if this is an actual legit edgeguard or if there is a bit of randomness behind it?

2.) Less of a question, but more of a tactic. If you pull out a grenade, hold it while being near any ledge, then shield, you can essentially drop the bomb directly beneath you. This is pretty fun on Battlefield from the top platform and is kinda useful against some characters on the side of the stage; especially characters that have to recover low/vertically as opposed to horizantally.

3.) Pull a grenade, grab ledge, then ledgedashing back on is REALLY good against Lucas and a few other characters. The grenade explodes during your invincibility frames of ledgedashing back on and allows for easy follow-ups if they explode.

4.) When DACUS'ing, is the key to press up+z IMMEDIATELY after you hit the c-stick down, or do you have to hit up+z during a certain frame that may not be exactly right after the dash attack animation? I still can't always DACUS properly especially when it's essential that I do it at that moment.

5.) D-air to f-tilt is a combo on hit. Does the 3rd hit of d-air have enough hit stun on shield to make d-air to f-tilt a shieldgrab frame trap? If you land the 4th hit of d-air on shield, can you safely up+b afterwards without interruption?

 

[FlashingFire]

5 Questions

1) The Dsmash mine has a pretty big activation range. I think Lucas' big head should consistently trigger it before he gets to the ledge, but it could also have to do with the angle at which he tethers.

2) Cool.

3) Knew about the technique, didn't know about the application. Personally I prefer to drop C4 at tether recoveries, but to each his own.

4) Using up+Z tightens the DACUS input window by 1 frame. Normally the DACUS input window for any character is their number of jumpsquat frames minus 3, so 5 (Snake's jumpsquat duration) - 3 - 1 (from using Z) = a 1-frame window. No wonder it's difficult for you to pull off consistently!

5) Pretty sure Dair > Up-B on shield is not safe. Sometimes you'll see people get away with it because their opponent doesn't realize they have time to act OoS though. As for the Ftilt frametrap, I haven't messed around with that move to know the answer to your question.

EDIT: Holy crap. I looked at the frame data thread, and there's actually information on each move's frame (dis)advantage on shield. Dair is -9.

EDIT 2: The first, second and third hits of Nair are -5. -4, and -3 on shield respectively. Now THAT can definitely lead into Up-B into Nair into Up-B etc, as long as you're really consistent with the timing.

EDIT 3: And Up Air is only -2. Dang.

 

[Omni]

U-air is only -2 on shield!?

Edit: Oh, also, do you use a different method for DACUS'ing?

 

[FlashingFire]

I would assume that Up Air is -2 on shield under ideal conditions - that is, hitting with the strong hitbox and immediately landing and L-cancelling on the next frame.

I have my R button set to Attack, since I do all my shielding, wavedashing, and teching with L. This makes it relatively easy for me to dash > C-stick down > Up+R in quick succession. If you don't have a shoulder button to spare, you could set something else to Attack or try clawing.

 

[Omni]

L to L-Cancel.
R to wavedash, shield.
Z to grab.
X to jump.
Y to footstool.

No space. ;.;

With that said, I've been working on a more aggressive Snake because I feel his neutral game is a bit lackluster, but especially against some of the top tier characters (Mewtwo, Diddy). So instead of counterplay, when I want to "go in" this is what I normally go for:

1.) DACUS. Pretty much his best approach especially if the up-smash bomb falls back on you. At worst, you'll get a trade.
2.) The Hail Merry. Run at your opponent and ground up+b. Good if you land on shield or hit; can keep it semi-safe by falling with an instant l-cancelled n-air.
3.) The Crawl to Stab. Good for going under projectiles closer at midrange.
4.) Grenade Pull to Grenade Walk to Grab. When you pull your grenade, hold on to it, step forward and just go for the grab. Again, good for trades if you'e at higher percents and you want to just do damage and your opponent who shields a lot.
5.) The Grenade Sidestep. Aka pull out a grenade and get as close to your opponent as possible. Then sidestep during the explosion. Bad against players who are throwing projectiles at you.

Do you guys have any other approaches that you use when you want to go in? Not counteroffensive or defensive play.

 

[SSS]

L to L-Cancel.
R to wavedash, shield.
Z to grab.
X to jump.
Y to footstool.

No space. ;.;

With that said, I've been working on a more aggressive Snake because I feel his neutral game is a bit lackluster, but especially against some of the top tier characters (Mewtwo, Diddy). So instead of counterplay, when I want to "go in" this is what I normally go for:

1.) DACUS. Pretty much his best approach especially if the up-smash bomb falls back on you. At worst, you'll get a trade.
2.) The Hail Merry. Run at your opponent and ground up+b. Good if you land on shield or hit; can keep it semi-safe by falling with an instant l-cancelled n-air.
3.) The Crawl to Stab. Good for going under projectiles closer at midrange.
4.) Grenade Pull to Grenade Walk to Grab. When you pull your grenade, hold on to it, step forward and just go for the grab. Again, good for trades if you'e at higher percents and you want to just do damage and your opponent who shields a lot.
5.) The Grenade Sidestep. Aka pull out a grenade and get as close to your opponent as possible. Then sidestep during the explosion. Bad against players who are throwing projectiles at you.

Do you guys have any other approaches that you use when you want to go in? Not counteroffensive or defensive play.

I nade>shield>wavedash>throw>dacus. I'll also hop around over them dropping C4s and detonating them waiting for them to get hit or react stupidly. Walk>ftilt beats a lot more than you'd think. Same with utilt. That move is great. Sometimes I'll mine>roll so it explodes>mine>roll so it explodes>repeat, mixing up between right and left so they don't know when to get in. i guess that's defensive though.

 

[Rubix.]

Is baiting a shield with a nade or something then going in with a boost grab a valid approach? I seem to catch a lot of people off guard because of the extra distance. The first couple of times they don't see it coming. Cross up pivot boost grabs are really good too from my experience.

 

[Omni]

I've never implemented boost grabs in my game. Is the difference in coverage that significant? Is a boost grab just a dash attack cancelled into a grab with weird timing?

 

[Cuban Pete]

Kso, I'm currently a Wario main and Snake looks hella good/fun and I'm thinking of switching. What are some things that you guys would say are required to learn and be able to execute properly with Snake?

 

[FlashingFire]

I've never tried boost grabbing with Snake. The input is like a JC grab but with Dash Attack instead of jump, so I'll test it.

As far as execution with Snake goes, here are some things to practice:

• universal ATs such as L-cancelling and wavedashing
• Uthrow chaingrabs
• sticky setups (Uthrow, Dtilt, foe is shielding on a platform, etc)
• DACUS
• Cypher-Fast-Fall-L-Cancelled aerials, particularly Nair
• OoS options such as Cypher, Dair, and wavedashing
• Picking up grenades by shielding then wavedashing OoS
• Jab reset > tranq > sticky > anything
• B-reverse grenades (to help mix up landings)
• C4 recovery (often involves stage teching)

There's more, but that list should probably help get you comfortable with most of the muscle memory stuff.

 

[Trikill3r]

A good approach with Snake could be an f-smash from or a SHFFL n-air

 

[iNoobtacular]

What are some general options to punish floaties as Snake
what is your general neutral game like?
How do you intercept opponents who full jump a lot?

 

[FlashingFire]

Sticking a floaty is generally the best punish available. It turns a grab or a stray grenade at 70 or so into death on most stages.

If a floaty full jumps, that's your chance to run underneath (or DACUS) and exploit that positional advantage. Utilt, Usmash, Uair, and Cypher are all excellent harassment tolls when an opponent tries to land. And if the opponent is stuck, almost anything can be a quick KO combo.