Snake an how to approach, lets talk business, i know its in another thread idc

[PolMex23]

Ok, so how to approach a snake?

Lets give insight. Idc its in other threads, this is different.

This whole thread will be on approaching Snake, him an all his play styles.

A The approach to any snake\
1. Either Space with SH aerials
a.*
2. Walk up to him
a.*
x 3. Camp(does not work)

* This is all decided by the nade game.

He whips out a nade, its these options:
Shields. Nade grab. Rolls away. Spot Dodges. Rolls towards. Throws. Spaces with Nade in hand.

Literally, cant cover all those options really. But what u can do is bait the popular snake options from nade.
Nade grab from walk towards, away, or in place*.
*In place is baiting the shield wait on you hitting it, so just grab an throw up or foward.
Really thats it. The other is them walking away an throwing.

I think spacing must be within upTilt range. Thats were we have to be to punish anything. We truly dont win in the air. His moves override ours. Its just spacing right an hitting him.

Also, dthrow tech chasing is important. Punish the jump away with perfect dash out of throw into aerial. I think we must stress harder on this.

Snakes punish jabs hard really. U jab the shield u get grabbed. At low percents look for everything that leads into a grab or up tilt combo.

Think of this an this works. Punish the tilts by blocking the first than SH air dodge the second dont fast fall it an nair. leads into Up tilts or jab(react to the di so u can pivot if u have to) than grab.

Do not be afraid of the Nair. Walk or run into the area an block wahtever they throw. Careful for the wait an grab, thats what smart snakes do. Also sliding upsmash spaced hurts this.

Oh, learn from Boss. If a obvious backair is incoming than space so they hit your shield directly in the middle an just side smash OOS.

Also punish hard the shield grabs. Do what i do, but mix in with di away from the grab into side smash.(Check up me against Hrnut 4/18 gp, i do the classic AD into them upB and the hit the shield an space away to bait grab into utilt sidesmash)

The problem is its hard not allowing them to have space. The key is, We all agree, is that you must beat Snake AND THE PLAYER(KEY IS TO OUTSMART THE PLAYER IN CLOSE COMBAT)

Problem is thats not easy to do. Yet with confidence, practice, keeping it cool an smarts, you will win.

Im going to do what ive shoulda done ages ago. Get someone to practice with me on how to punish the different timings on ftilt and other characters(like D3s sucking in move...i suck at punishing that x[ )

 

[BigLøu]

Another i like to do that ive found useful against snake is shield first part of ftilt then sidestep the second, that way you don't get knocked away and you can punish with a potential grab. Getiing hit by both parts of ftilt as luigi causes u to slide away.

You can also nair through snakes up smash, and i recommend using it if you are near the upsmash. Snake gets hit by nair and you can begin a combo. As you stated, grabs are also very important in this matchup especial at low percentages.

If the snake is grenade happy let them sit in thier shield. Patience is key in this matchup, along with proper spacing. A snake with a low shield is a haven for luigi.

Kill early, use our best tool against snake, the abilty to end a stock rather early helps so much. It's weird having luigi be the one to outlive snake by percentages.

Thats all i got for now ill try to think of more

 

[LuigiKing]

Umm its really late so I don't have much to add, but good advice guys.

I've found that SH Dair is the best counter to mortarslides evar, works every single time.

And punish everything they do with uFsmash, its generally fast enough to sneak in after his spotdodges or when he messes up an aerial...

 

[kigbariom]

PolMex, do you mind if when this is up, I add it to my thread. Because that one has a longer life, so people can refer to it there if this gets lost.

 

[hippiedude92]

Hm good read maybe disorganized, but that's just me. Maybe you should make it into a situational guide specifically for Snake kinda like Pierce7d did for Marth against MK in Marthboards.

lol i have shieldgrab johns against snake and 5-6 hits from snake resulting myself 120%+ to utilt finisher johns as well. I highly agree patience is the key here. Lol you could always make sure you take a lead (or a stock lead to be sure) and then burn out the clock xD

Does anyone ever get pissed at taking the 4% dmg from getting hit from a nade? lol.

 

[PolMex23]

PolMex, do you mind if when this is up, I add it to my thread. Because that one has a longer life, so people can refer to it there if this gets lost.

Hm good read maybe disorganized, but that's just me. Maybe you should make it into a situational guide specifically for Snake kinda like Pierce7d did for Marth against MK in Marthboards.

lol i have shieldgrab johns against snake and 5-6 hits from snake resulting myself 120%+ to utilt finisher johns as well. I highly agree patience is the key here. Lol you could always make sure you take a lead (or a stock lead to be sure) and then burn out the clock xD

Does anyone ever get pissed at taking the 4% dmg from getting hit from a nade? lol.

Yes to you Kig.

And to hippie ill edit it an make it more organized with vids tonight. I promise xD

Situational guide is what i was sorta goin for, so ill make it. We need it bad everyone including Boss hates camping snakes or camping whatevers for that matter soooo...yea

 

[Locuan]

I was thinking of when this was done adding it to the matchup thread as well, what do you think polmex?

 

[TreK]

does anyone else get pissed when after PSing 5 nades and dodged 5 others to get close to snake, he just DACes away ?

nades themselves don't really bother me, i'm used to play with items (diddy maining mustn't that bad after all :o ) but his DAC does. The only ways i've found to counter this is to fireball spam and eat 4% on each nade, or catch then SH-dtoss his nades... which doesn't work once he starts cooking them...

edit : aw while I'm lurking, you should add a cp/ban section. I find it misses MANY matchup thread/discussions xD

 

[napZzz]

I find trouble with luigis who get me into the air with grabs and get close with like dumb fake outs and stuff.

 

[hippiedude92]

does anyone else get pissed when after PSing 5 nades and dodged 5 others to get close to snake, he just DACes away ?

nades themselves don't really bother me, i'm used to play with items (diddy maining mustn't that bad after all :o ) but his DAC does. The only ways i've found to counter this is to fireball spam and eat 4% on each nade, or catch then SH-dtoss his nades... which doesn't work once he starts cooking them...

edit : aw while I'm lurking, you should add a cp/ban section. I find it misses MANY matchup thread/discussions xD

I agree highly except the DAC part. Mostly utilts/ftilts that make me gtfo. Espically when you dodge so much trickies on stage then you finally meet him close up he just hits you in the crouch or just runs away with mortar after all that work. I mean seriously man lol.

Nappy, our fakeouts are not dumb, it's just simply easy to juggle Snake lol.

 

[PolMex23]

K ima do it tonight.

Ill just list the Cps now.

Anything thats small. Aka BF, Delphino, and Yoshis? No, Rainbow cruise =)

 

[Icyo]

What's wrong with Rainbow Cruise? And why Battlefield?

 

[hippiedude92]

lol are you serious deflino wow wtf? BF is only good if your able to pressure him and if he has no stuff outside the field. if he has everything out in the field, the matchup is 6/4 or 55:45 Snake tho. Idk, it honestly might be me, but i prefer flat stages but mostly because I can run away and hit&run too. I know biglou said yoshis land is good too. We have so many posts on Snake, its like we don't have it organized D: CPs and bans def need it for me fo sho

edit: Icyo, because in tourney play, Snakes auto ban it, if they don't, they are mentally ********. BF is snake's best neutral they say. Also i suggest lylat, zhao told me its hard to C4 tech there anyways.

 

[Icyo]

Oh I thought he meant it would be a bad stage for Snake.

 

[napZzz]

I agree highly except the DAC part. Mostly utilts/ftilts that make me gtfo. Espically when you dodge so much trickies on stage then you finally meet him close up he just hits you in the crouch or just runs away with mortar after all that work. I mean seriously man lol.

Nappy, our fakeouts are not dumb, it's just simply easy to juggle Snake lol.

I didn't mean literally dumb -_- I was saying its annoying

 

[Kev!]

Looks cool, but I'd like to see this more organized.

Personally, I hate yoshi's and FD vs Snake, I prefer Lylat (nades roll off the sides and C4 Teching is hsrd. and Smashville (restrained space for snake to use). FD is just an invitation to camping, Yoshi's has that annoying platform that only needs a C4 on it to severely restrict your aerial game. BF may be Snake's best neutral, but Luigi is awesome on it too, I don't really hate it but I'm not crazy-into it either.

I tried many different approaches and the best one, IMO is to actually bait the Ftilt. No matter how fundamentally dumb it sounds, getting Snake to Ftilt on YOUR terms when you expect it, instead of when he actually decides to helps a lot. Throwing in a random Dash to grab helps too. After playing Snakes often, you actually start powershielding a LOT. Dash > PowerShield > Grab isn't something I try often, but it works nearly every time I do it.

On the ledge, you want to either jump and AirDodge, jump FastFall Dair and buffer a roll if his shield is up or ledge hop and Nado *looks at elheber* Luigi Cyclone, but mashing only enough to go barely higher than stage level.

Recover high, going low, you'll have to face falling mortars, C4 drops, bairs, Uairs and other nasty ****. You may recover, but you'll likely get hit and either die, get gimped by a stagespike or take ****loads of damage.
By going high, you limit it to Mortars (you can Nair through them if you're above to avoid AirDodging because Snake can pushish your AirDodge), Nades and Uairs. You're more likely to make it back on stage safely and even if you do get hit, you'll take less damage than if you were recovering low. You also can't get stagespiked this way.

Killing Snake is where this matchup really gets tough. Snake doesn't kill as über-early as us, but his finisher(s) is stupid-easy to land and his moves do over 9000 damage. You have to be ridiculously unpredicatable when using Shoryuken (that one I'm NOT changing for the correct name, ever) for it to remain effective. When Snake is on the ledge, try throwing an up-angled Fmsash out from time to time, a lot of Snakes tend to jump off the ledge and get hit in the legs by it. Try predicting their rolls, spotdodges and techs, Sometimes, try to surprise Snake with a FastFalled buffered FJP. Very rarely, you can mindgame them into an UpB techchase if you DownThrow. They tend to just AirDodge and DI away, so run and Shoryuken will sometimes work.

That's all I can think of for now and I really need a smoke. I'll try to write something else on the Luigi board this evening. hope this was helpful.

Edit: Oh and I played vs Swordgard (very good IC's, in my region) and got demolished, I guess I'll have to do like I did with Dom and play him endlessly, learn the matchup and share what I learned with you guys

 

[hippiedude92]

I approve of your post Kev! really helpful for me thanks.

 

[Kev!]

I approve of your post Kev! really helpful for me thanks.

Why thank you, Hippiedude.

Btw, is it true that you're like, 12 years old? I remember reading that somewhere lol

 

[:mad:]

Hippie's a 12 year old asian Luigi player?

LOLLLLL.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Ill give a little bit of my opinions and stages

To deal with dacus's......I like to use up tilt.....n-air...or even a tap a....Fireballs are also useful and automatically explode nades without you getting hit.

I like throw combos when I can find it. Platform combos work well with down throw combos.....down throw to up tilt at 0, down throw to up smash at 0, down throw to up air at various percentages.....down throw to platform up airs at higher percentages.

Vs his recovery, back air and down air are really good. Back air is overall one of the best moves to space. f-tilt's also work well art spacing

at low percentages, up tilt combos lead to 60+ damage. up tilt x 3 + up smash works well....or up tilts into up air. Up tilt + N-air works well also.

Tap a to down air also works well. also, tap a to down smash works well for later ko's

Up b kills are fine.....just make sure they will hit.

My favorite neutral is BF or Yoshi's......Platform stages are a must. Smashville is moderate and FD is by far the worst (camping stages = no.) if the tournament allows Lylat as a neutral, is probably second best after BF

My favorite counterpicks are norfair....BF... or Frigate

Just space well.....and don't attack the nades

 

[hippiedude92]

Hippie's a 12 year old asian Luigi player?

LOLLLLL.

if I were 12 years old, i wouldn't be going to so much ****ing tourneys and coming home at like ****ing 2am with *****s on mah **** ******

but seriously no. i'm 17 by next week. lrn2readAboutMeSectionsPlzty<3

 

[Kev!]

Ill give a little bit of my opinions and stages

To deal with dacus's......I like to use up tilt.....n-air...or even a tap a....Fireballs are also useful and automatically explode nades without you getting hit.

I like throw combos when I can find it. Platform combos work well with down throw combos.....down throw to up tilt at 0, down throw to up smash at 0, down throw to up air at various percentages.....down throw to platform up airs at higher percentages.

Vs his recovery, back air and down air are really good. Back air is overall one of the best moves to space. f-tilt's also work well art spacing

at low percentages, up tilt combos lead to 60+ damage. up tilt x 3 + up smash works well....or up tilts into up air. Up tilt + N-air works well also.

Tap a to down air also works well. also, tap a to down smash works well for later ko's

Up b kills are fine.....just make sure they will hit.

My favorite neutral is BF or Yoshi's......Platform stages are a must. Smashville is moderate and FD is by far the worst (camping stages = no.) if the tournament allows Lylat as a neutral, is probably second best after BF

My favorite counterpicks are norfair....BF... or Frigate

Just space well.....and don't attack the nades

You don't actually need to space a lot versus Snake. You just want to be in his face he doesn't want you to be. HE spaces, you approach.

Norfair isn't a viable counterpick because it's banned in many locations due to circle-camping as well as planking (Thanks, COT4), BF advantages Snake as well as you so it's not an excellent idea either. I actually prefer Rainbow Cruise or Halberd. The ceiling on Halberd is crazy-low and Raibow Cruise forces Snake to move and sacrifice camping and strategy sometimes, in order to stay alive.

Nair is really your best move in the matchup. It comes out on frame two, lifts snake in the air, lasts ****ing forever, has a million priority, kills at higher percents and is just overall awesome. If skilled enough, I belive it would be possible to win this matchup with Nair, Jabs, Grab and Shoryuken, ignoring other moves except to recover.

The best way to deal with dacus, in my opinion is to shield it, sigh and approach all over again. If you really want to counter it, I'd go with jabs, the win button

Spoiler

Nair

or a pivot grab. If you do get hit, Di and/or airdodge because getting hit by both the slide and mortar is nasty, plus gives Snake a better position and/or time to set up explosives all over the place.


Edit@Hippie: No **** o_O - So who's the super-young Luigi I read something about lulz?!

 

[hippiedude92]

your talking about delta Kev!. he lives in my state and mostly wifis lol.

you only need to space when your up close just so you won't get grabbed pretty much it.

imo, i don't see why you guys make a big deal about DAC. MAJORITY OF OUR OPTIONS WORK. fireballs, rising nairs, anything aerial, even a jab stops this sliding *******. the problem with this is if he goes excessive with it and places traps on the stage to make it hard for us to counter.

 

[Kev!]

your talking about delta Kev!. he lives in my state and mostly wifis lol.

you only need to space when your up close just so you won't get grabbed pretty much it.

imo, i don't see why you guys make a big deal about DAC. MAJORITY OF OUR OPTIONS WORK. fireballs, rising nairs, anything aerial, even a jab stops this sliding *******. the problem with this is if he goes excessive with it and places traps on the stage to make it hard for us to counter.

I was just doing it to contradict him. I'm annoying like that.

You don't really have to worry about traps in that example, the ones that explode on contact would get him and the C4 was to much startup lag to get you while you're punishing the Snakedash.

I just ignore them and punish a few when the opponent is spamming them to make them realize they should stop.

Unless you have the reflexes of a dead cow, this really isn't what Luigi players should be afraid of.