SmashCAP 2: Concept Submissions

[Terywj [태리]]

Here we go again!

[SmashCAP 2]
Start date: 1/30/10
End date: --/--/--

I think everyone knows what we'll be doing but a quick summary.
We, the community of the Pokemon Center of Smash World Forums have begun our second SmashCenter Create-A-Pokemon project, or SmashCAP for short. We work together to design and create new Pokemon which test the current OU Metagame. Our last project was Calderan, a Water / Ground type with the concept of stopping users of bulky offense in their tracks.

Similarily we will need to begin with a concept to base SmashCAP 2 on, so discuss and submit away!

And remember, all forum rules apply.

Spoiler

Or else. I'll get Spire on you.

-Terywj

 

[UltiMario]

How about a new Wonder Guard abuser, with something like 32 Max HP so it can actually survive anything thats not a direct attack?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Concept: Resist Monster
- A Pokemon who through typing, ability, and even attacks can resist a major portion of the metagame.

Concept: Ultimate Stat-Up
- A Pokemon who has "underbalanced" stats but access to good stat-up moves (and even ability) becomes a powerful threat once setup properly.

Those are my ideas for now.

-Terywj

 

[Wave⁂]

How about a new Wonder Guard abuser, with something like 32 Max HP so it can actually survive anything thats not a direct attack?

I like.

 

[UltiMario]

Concept: Resist Monster
- A Pokemon who through typing, ability, and even attacks can resist a major portion of the metagame.

Concept: Ultimate Stat-Up
- A Pokemon who has "underbalanced" stats but access to good stat-up moves (and even ability) becomes a powerful threat once setup properly.

Those are my ideas for now.

-Terywj

1. I had the resist idea before, it was just overshadowed by the BOC idea. Electric/Steel with Levitate IS THE resist typing, just to say.

2. Imagine a whole Baton Pass team on a single Pokemon.
Lets not go with Ultimate Stat-Up, mkay?

I like.

Thx :D

 

[Terywj [태리]]

That would be impossible (referring to my 2nd random idea). That thing would suffer horribly from 4-Moveslot Syndrome.

But I do like the Resist Monster idea more.

-Terywj

 

[UltiMario]

Have a Smeargle, Trap, Sleep, pass to a dual Screener, then pass to your second idea.

GG

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Oh yeah so why 32 HP?
I'm just curious as to the number.

Edit: Thinking about it it would probably have to be at least neutral to Stealth Rock and not be part Flying.
And be hit by Hail and Sandstorm.

-Terywj

 

[Moozle]

Electric/Steel with Levitate IS THE resist typing, just to say.

Wouldn't levitating poison/dark do a better job? It has literally no weaknesses and two immunities. I think that would be spectacularly annoying

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Annoying doesn't mean it has many resistances.

Poison / Dark is immune to Toxic, Ground, Psychic, and resists Grass. I think that's about it.

Stuff like Electric / Steel and Grass / Steel work better off. Moreso Electric / Steel with Levitate. But we're not to be discussing typing now..

-Terywj

 

[UltiMario]

Oh yeah so why 32 HP?
I'm just curious as to the number.

Edit: Thinking about it it would probably have to be at least neutral to Stealth Rock and not be part Flying.
And be hit by Hail and Sandstorm.

-Terywj

I find 32 to be some Magic number. It just so happens that a lot of the game's calculations turn out even when 32 is used, it gives 2 HP on leftovers recovery, etc. LO is one of the few things that doesn't turn out even, unfortunately. 16 has similar magic to it, but 32 seems superior due to overall survavability of status, weather, etc.

 

[Wave⁂]

Sandstorm, Stealth Rock both work out nicely with 32 HP, and ideally those would be the only things hurting this guy.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

So besides not being Wonder Guard paper (read: Shedinja) what else will it be used for?

-Terywj

 

[Wave⁂]

To be determined

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I was wondering if UltiMario had something else planned. xD

-Terywj

 

[UltiMario]

It'd obviously be a sweeper, probably a physical one. Great Attack and Speed stats, everything else being an absolute joke.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Well you can't determine stats yet but I see where you're going.

-Terywj

 

[RuNNing Riot]

Perhaps we could recycle some of the older concepts that were submitted for SmashCAP 1. Someone mentioned an anti-Taunt Pokemon earlier, for example. Or is there a rule against reusing ideas from before?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

There's nothing wrong with using ideas from before.

You must realize that as long as it could work, it's viable for voting. xD

-Terywj

 

[CRASHiC]

Wanna make an Anti-scout pokemon?


Or how about an evolved version of Breloom has an ability to where when burned its HP heals 50 percent every turn and its attack is doubled and attacks that would go last go first so it can go boom boom focus punch and boom boom focus punch all day bam fun in a barrel, better than Scizor. Oh, and its got huge attack stat but its super slow now so that it can use its abilitiy. Sexy. Nah, I'll think up something better.

Let's make a pokemon for Deviant Art to fap too.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Lol?

Anti-Scout sounds more situational though.

-Terywj

 

[Wave⁂]

Give evolved Breloom Super Spore, has 200% accuracy and forces your opponent to ragequit

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Give evolved Breloom Super Spore, has 200% accuracy and forces your opponent to ragequit

Add the 90% chance of giving confusion. And a defense drop.

-Terywj

 

[CRASHiC]

I just want a pokemon that discourages the use of Pursuit so that I can fit Psychich pokemon on my team more easily.

Thinking of that, how about SmashCap make the perfect Dark/Ghost pokemon. I know that typing is suppose to be a stage within itself, but hear me out, we all know that they have, twice in a row, taken the wrong approach towards Dark/Ghost pokemon trying to make it a defenseive type while holding back on its stats far too much in both cases, 3rd gen more than 4th gen. So, how about we design the perfect Ghost/Dark pokemon?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Sounds interesting, but as I've said before it would be better if we worked with a concept rather than typing.

Again, I'm not saying I don't support it. So don't hurt me. ><

-Terywj

 

[JOE!]

Concept: Explosion/Self Destruct abuser.

This pokemon could be based off of a bomb, and have stupidly high speed and attack, but like nothing in any other stat.

this assures that he essentially destroys anyone along with himself when sent out.

 

[Circa]

RAH RAH WALL OF TEXT

Concept: Type Representation

I know you said not to look at typing, but I believe this 'experiment', if you will, could possibly be good for an outlook on the metagame. Plus I believe it could be both fun and challenging for a new way to build a Pokemon. The idea is simple: there are types that are underrepresented in OU. We take two of these types (it doesn't have to be a completely new and original type either, because I actually tried those combinations and there's basically nothing good) and figure out a way to increase the representation of these types in the current metagame. Now this may sound easy, but it's more than likely going to be hard as ****. The reason for this is that in some cases, the type in question is currently only known for doing one or two things good (Poisons for Toxic Spikes for instance), whereas it kinda sucks in a lot of other ways. The problem is, you can't go the 'normal' route of making this Pokemon, because if its niche overlaps too much with others of the same type, then it could easily drive them out (or even worse, the new Pokemon could be outclassed and not used at all) and the representation value could become worse. So yeah, I guess that's it for my explanation. Now to explain what the hell this representation value nonsense is.

My calculation for representation is based on the average usage percentage of a specific type in the OU metagame (based on Shoddy Statistics December of '09), multiplied by a "rep. value", which is simply the amount of Pokemon of each type that sits in OU divided by the amount of fully evolved Pokemon in each type that exist overall (with the exception of Ubers). For instance, there are 8 Water-types in OU and there are 47 overall. The representation number then, is .170. This means that 17% of all Water-types sit somewhere in OU. You then take that number and multiply it by the average usage % of a Water-type in OU (9.875) and bam! You get 1.678325. As for what the number means, well, I haven't exactly figured that out yet, because I haven't exactly figured out an equation that tells what a perfect representation value should be. My view is just that if it's above 2 (or 2.5...I haven't decided yet. I like 2 more though because it makes this more challenging), it's represented enough. You'll see why I say that when you look at the values. And yes I know this number is partially flawed (8 Waters in OU is considered underrepresented...kinda weird), but I think that for the most part the values still ring true. So yeah, here's the list.

1. Dragon (10.769024)
2. Steel (7.518585)
3. Ghost (3.65274)
4. Fighting (3.369294)
5. Electric (2.805456)
6. Psychic (2.700405)
7. Ground (2.611386)
8. Fire (2.17125)
9. Flying (2.1464142)
10. Bug (2.0609)
11. Water (1.678325)
12. Dark (1.6325)
13. Rock (1.3135)
14. Poison (1.22766)
15. Grass (.874888)
16. Ice (.80095)
17. Normal (.7197125)

Also, if someone finds a better and more accurate method (or figures out a prefect representation value to base the statistics off of), then please feel completely free to post it and explain how it works. I'd be more than happy to use that if it's more accurate.

...and sorry if this is kind of badly explained or whatever (I honestly don't know if it is or isn't). It's 3:45 in the morning and I'm dead tired. ;-;

 

[UltiMario]

There is a problem in your math.

Well, not the math ITSELF, but what the numbers mean.


There are a buttload of Normal Types, a buttload of Grounds and Waters...... Yet there aren't too many Dragons and Ghosts... etc.

The fact that there are different amounts of each type throws off your math, and the usage statistics. I'm not sure if there is a way you can get around this.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Hm...so far I'm liking the Resist Monster and Wonder Guard Abuser the most.

Deadline for concept submissions: 2/2/10

In your final submission please post the name of the concept and a short description as to how it works and how it fits into the metagame.

Thanks!
-Terywj

 

[JOE!]

There is a problem in your math.

Well, not the math ITSELF, but what the numbers mean.


There are a buttload of Normal Types, a buttload of Grounds and Waters...... Yet there aren't too many Dragons and Ghosts... etc.

The fact that there are different amounts of each type throws off your math, and the usage statistics. I'm not sure if there is a way you can get around this.

you dont know what an average is, do you?

what Writer did was look at it solely on typing.

If your statement were true, you would easily see more of the "more common" types in the statistics. However, since theyre more common, most of them suck and dont appear in OU.

This is why Dragon and Steel types are so prevalent when it comes to how often they appear in the OU metagame, becaus ethey are good pokemon, not because there are alot of them.

 

[UltiMario]

Thats the problem, it looks like Water, for example, has really bad representation, whilst actually, it has VERY good, whilst Dragons look over-represented, but then theres little Dragons in the first place to represent.

It just doesn't work out, you're better off figuring out the percentile each type has IN the OU tier.

 

[CRASHiC]

Wow, I was amazed to see grass lower than fire.

At any rate, there are some problems but not for the reasons Ulti says. They both can be seen in the Normal, Water, and Dark. The problem comes from multitypes. So many pokemon have normal, water, and dark latched onto their type for no apprant reason. These three types are throw aways almost as they are handed out for very lose reasons, especially Dark and Normal. You should probably do it another method.

 

[Circa]

There is a problem in your math.

Well, not the math ITSELF, but what the numbers mean.


There are a buttload of Normal Types, a buttload of Grounds and Waters...... Yet there aren't too many Dragons and Ghosts... etc.

The fact that there are different amounts of each type throws off your math, and the usage statistics. I'm not sure if there is a way you can get around this.

I already explained its flaws, and I'm extremely aware of how many of each currently exist for each type. Oh yes, and I also said that if people had a better way to calculate it then tell me. Why would I say that if I didn't already know that my equation was partially flawed? Now please quit telling me things I already know. That will put you on my hate list faster than you could ever imagine. And remember that I've had all this information sitting around for about two or three weeks. I've thought it out pretty thoroughly about what is and isn't flawed.

Also, it should be noted that logic should tell you the more Pokemon of a single type there is overall, the more that should technically exist in the standard metagame. So in a way, the values aren't as flawed as you'd think. These types should also have a higher chance of carrying a Pokemon or two that sits high in usage, due to the fact that they have more and thus should have a higher chance of carrying something great. I do admit that Water's value is more than likely flawed (there's honestly little you could do to get that number any higher), but for the most part they are all relatively on the dot. Fire has 16 fully-evolved, non-Uber Pokemon currently; but only two in OU. That's not very many really, but then you consider that both sit in the top 10 (as opposed to Ice, which has 12 with 2 sitting in OU but in the 35+ area) and you realize that they're really pulling through and showing what Fire has going for it. This is representation.

I guess my view for this is very very very anti-metagame, so it's probably not going to be extremely popular. I just thought it might be interesting. ;-;

EDIT: @CRASHiC: Dark and Normal aren't exactly throw away types. Well, Normal is, but not because it's latched on to other types. You have to look outside the box in order to see this how I'm seeing it. The question isn't "Why is Normal underrepresented?", but it's "Why must Normal be a throwaway type?" Dark's issues mainly lie in that the Pokemon that get put in it either have horribly bad defenses or aren't fast enough to do what they can possibly do. Water's logic is kind of like Normal, only they throw even more there. And like I already said, Water's problem isn't that there aren't things representing it, but that there are just too many that exist altogether. Water's a lost cause. Honest. Quit looking at it. <____<

Oh, and Grass's highest Pokemon is 22nd in usage. Fire's lowest is 9th. This is why.

 

[Deleted member]

I propose we should STOP AND PLAYTEST THE ONE THAT WE HAVE.

what the hell is wrong with you people?

 

[CRASHiC]

Oh, I'm not saying that Normals and Darks are throwaways, oh hell no, I mean, Dark was added to the game to balance Psychich types out, Dark is in no way a throw away and I actually find Dark to be the most interesting types as its a very mixed range of uses. Dark is by far one of my favorite types because unlike other types like Steel, it wasn't designed with a specific purpose for its weakness and resistences, just balancing out the metagame by nerfing Psyhics reign of terror. (when you step back and look, the Pokemon games almost seem to be made to played competevily sometimes, even if they occasionally lolfail with bullet punch and Garchomp). And as for Normal, it byitself isn't a throwaway either. It has 1 weakness and 1 resistent, (too bad Ghost attacks aren't more used though) that gives it a good All Around feel to it that we can basically see in full effect with Snorlax.

I'd be very interested in doing this, as it basically fits my idea of taking a particular type and making the optimum (non-uber) for that type, with my suggestion being Dark/Ghost but we'll get to the actual typing later. I might still come up with one and write it out however.

@umbreon- How? Does anyone know how to put it on Shoddy or netbattle?

 

[Circa]

@Umbreon: Our problem with that sits in the fact that we have no server, and no one seems to know how to make one and put new things in it.


Also, @UltiMario: I tried your method and the only real change within the last 7 types (meaning the only ones to leave the last 7, not the only ones to move around) was Water, which was replaced by Fire. I'd post the values and such, but you probably don't care to see it too much unless my concept actually wins. So yeah, that does technically work with less flaw, so thank you.

I think I just like my idea because I want to make more POISON AND ICE TYPES THAT ARE VIABLE **** IT. GRAAARRRR. Not really. Well, kinda. But still not really.

 

[UltiMario]

Tis why you read all posts before commenting.

You went on a big rage for no reason at all :D

 

[Riddle]

Ultimate-Lead

This would be a mostly mediocre pokemon under normal circumstances that would thrive in the lead position.

Obviously Stealth Rock would be required and stuff like Rapid Spin, Taunt, Encore, and Explosion could be helpful. This pokemon would probably be very fast but have poor attacking options and a huge array of support options. Basically like a combination of Aerodactyl and anti-lead Smeargle or something like that.
It would be nice if it resisted common types (maybe) and a taunt-immune ability could greatly help it (aerodactyl and the like).

So like, this pokemon gets up Stealth Rock against the majority of common leads and is unpredictable enough that it is likely to cripple something. Obviously this lead wouldn't beat everything though which could create an interesting new lead metagame.

Thoughts?

 

[UltiMario]

You mean, EXACTLY like Deoxys-E?

 

[Circa]

Tis why you read all posts before commenting.

You went on a big rage for no reason at all :D

No, I read them all. You posted within the time frame in which I did my typing. That's my major problem actually. People make little posts while I make giant posts, so there are a lot of times where I will comment on something and I will already be half a page behind. And although I can just bring up a new tab to see anything new that's being posted, I usually don't because then I'm constantly changing my post and it gets annoying. So anymore I just say **** it and hope for the best.

Riddle partially took my idea that I was going to post for last SmashCAP. I give him permission though.