Smash4 has not done anything to deserve EVO

[byebye]

Basically, the Melee community is about as outwardly spiteful as the Smash 4 community, people just place the blame on Melee players more.

thing is, other communities doesn't even want to build up that smash4 community. anti-hyping things. all this negativity. it's discouraging for an outsider, to go these forums and read all these sh*t that the other communities are throw at the newest games. it is a new game and it is a different game. smash4 community just want to let their game be.

 

[BananaBolts]

thing is, other communities doesn't even want to build up that smash4 community. anti-hyping things. all this negativity. it's discouraging for an outsider, to go these forums and read all these sh*t that the other communities are throw at the newest games. it is a new game and it is a different game. smash4 community just want to let their game be.

I feel like you're being too biased and forgiving to the Smash 4 community. Melee players have been beaten down and ridiculed for years by other communities. So when newcomers show up in their backyard and try to uproot all of the beautiful flowers that they planted, the Melee players get angry. Melee has grown an entire garden and Smash 4 comes in and says, "All of your garden is ours now. Leave your old, rusty tools behind." Like I said before, Smash 4 needs to earn things for themselves.

smash4 community just want to let their game be.

On the contrary, a lot of Smash 4 players want to uproot everyone else. I still play 64 and I hate hearing, "Why do you still play this old game?" and "Why don't you play the new game?" and "You're all just stupid, old guys."

I don't like Smash players trying to get me to play a game that I've already chosen not to play. I want to see them succeed but I don't want them to cram stuff down my throat. Every time I'm in a Smash stream that isn't Smash 4, a bunch of Smash 4 players come in and choose to start crap. Defend your game but don't look to attack everyone else's game.

 

[foxyopiumfun]

I get Melee. I can see the hype and tech behind it but other games like SF, CC vs MVL, or any other fighter has the current game in main events. Smash is the only fighter that still has to resort to a game from the past and the Melee players want to keep it like that. Like in my last post I totally get the brawl dilemma but why bash a new fresh new game on what happened from the last one. It's faster and lots of things to still learn. I honestly think both should be in main events but thats to much to ask unless Nintendo dishes out money for it.

Nice Vivi in sig btw. FF9 best game.

I just beat it for the first time like 2 weeks ago. <3 Vivi and Freya

 

[Code Bread]

I feel like you're being too biased and forgiving to the Smash 4 community. Melee players have been beaten down and ridiculed for years by other communities. So when newcomers show up in their backyard and try to uproot all of the beautiful flowers that they planted, the Melee players get angry. Melee has grown an entire garden and Smash 4 comes in and says, "All of your garden is ours now. Leave your old, rusty tools behind." Like I said before, Smash 4 needs to earn things for themselves.


On the contrary, a lot of Smash 4 players want to uproot everyone else. I still play 64 and I hate hearing, "Why do you still play this old game?" and "Why don't you play the new game?" and "You're all just stupid, old guys."

I don't like Smash players trying to get me to play a game that I've already chosen not to play. I want to see them succeed but I don't want them to cram stuff down my throat. Every time I'm in a Smash stream that isn't Smash 4, a bunch of Smash 4 players come in and choose to start crap. Defend your game but don't look to attack everyone else's game.

When someone bullies you, go bully someone else, eh? The only thing the Smash 4 community has asked for is a fair chance. People have been bashing it since before it released because it's not a "Melee sequel". It's more like Smash 4 comes in and says "We would like some of the seeds you've sown to grow our own garden." and Melee responds "Go find your own, babies." Smash 4 definitely needs to earn some things, but the Melee community's constant "our scene is so grassroots man we had to make it all on our own" isn't really an excuse to **** all over the newer game's parade and tell them they need to do the same. Those guys hating on you still playing 64 are just saltbags with bad taste, and saying that they're Smash 4 players is just begging for reasons to hate on the Smash 4 community. I can just as easily go to a Brawl tournament and bag on the game, but I play every smash game. So now suddenly a bunch of 64/Melee/PM/Brawl/Sm4sh players hate Brawl? Seems too easy.

Also lel @ implying Smash 4 players are the only ones that go into streams to talk crap. I've never seen that, and have never watched a Smash 4 stream that didn't have Melee diehards shooting everyone's opinions down. Literally never. I'd bet my life on it.

 

[BananaBolts]

Also lel @ implying Smash 4 players are the only ones that go into streams to talk crap. I've never seen that, and have never watched a Smash 4 stream that didn't have Melee diehards shooting everyone's opinions down. Literally never. I'd bet my life on it.

Forgive me, I forgot to include that they were definitely Smash 4 enthusiasts. I would not have mentioned it, otherwise.

When someone bullies you, go bully someone else, eh? The only thing the Smash 4 community has asked for is a fair chance. People have been bashing it since before it released because it's not a "Melee sequel". It's more like Smash 4 comes in and says "We would like some of the seeds you've sown to grow our own garden." and Melee responds "Go find your own, babies." Smash 4 definitely needs to earn some things, but the Melee community's constant "our scene is so grassroots man we had to make it all on our own" isn't really an excuse to **** all over the newer game's parade and tell them they need to do the same.

Smash 4 doesn't seem to be just asking for a fair chance. I openly gave my opinion about Smash 4 3DS and I was immediately attacked for it. I even said something to the effect of: "I'll give it another chance when the Wii U version is released." in the aforementioned opinion. I was perfectly respectable but I was berated for not immediately loving Smash 4. On the outside, Smash 4 fans say that they just want a chance but in reality they want everyone to share their opinions. I'm not trying to judge the community on one experience. I'm still giving Smash 4 a chance, after all.

It's more like Smash 4 comes in and says "We would like some of the seeds you've sown to grow our own garden." and Melee responds "Go find your own, babies."

I disagree with this analogy. From what I've seen it's like: "Here's a little bit of what I've got from Melee." proceeded by, "That's not enough!!!! Give us more!!!!"

 

[byebye]

I feel like you're being too biased and forgiving to the Smash 4 community. Melee players have been beaten down and ridiculed for years by other communities. So when newcomers show up in their backyard and try to uproot all of the beautiful flowers that they planted, the Melee players get angry. Melee has grown an entire garden and Smash 4 comes in and says, "All of your garden is ours now. Leave your old, rusty tools behind." Like I said before, Smash 4 needs to earn things for themselves.


On the contrary, a lot of Smash 4 players want to uproot everyone else. I still play 64 and I hate hearing, "Why do you still play this old game?" and "Why don't you play the new game?" and "You're all just stupid, old guys."

I don't like Smash players trying to get me to play a game that I've already chosen not to play. I want to see them succeed but I don't want them to cram stuff down my throat. Every time I'm in a Smash stream that isn't Smash 4, a bunch of Smash 4 players come in and choose to start crap. Defend your game but don't look to attack everyone else's game.

nah. this very thread "Smash4 has not done anything to deserve EVO". is the one I'm talking about.

Sure, I have seen pro-smash4 threads here - but most of the tone is on the defensive side. defending their game. not cramming their game into our throats. unlike this very thread.

I mean leave the smash4 palyers be. and leave their game be.

 

[Code Bread]

Forgive me, I forgot to include that they were definitely Smash 4 enthusiasts. I would not have mentioned it, otherwise.

I'm confused on this. Are you referring to the 64 players that bashed your gaming preferences? You quoted the wrong part.

Smash 4 doesn't seem to be just asking for a fair chance. I openly gave my opinion about Smash 4 3DS and I was immediately attacked for it. I even said something to the effect of: "I'll give it another chance when the Wii U version is released." in the aforementioned opinion. I was perfectly respectable but I was berated for not immediately loving Smash 4. On the outside, Smash 4 fans say that they just want a chance but in reality they want everyone to share their opinions. I'm not trying to judge the community on one experience. I'm still giving Smash 4 a chance, after all.

Being attacked doesn't really have anything to do with a fair chance. You just expressed your opinions to douche bags. Happens pretty often in the world. You might not be trying, but you are judging the community based on one experience. Your actions for or against Smash 4 don't have to correlate to your opinion on the game's community.

Go to a Melee discussion and say "Melee sucks Sm4sh is so much better" and you get knocked on your bottom.
Go to a Sm4sh discussion and say "Sm4sh sucks Melee is so much better" and you get knocked on your bottom.
It's such a stupid thing to do but people still do it because they all think they're opinions are god. It's not the Sm4sh community or the Melee community. It's the smash community. The smash community is toxic because the people are toxic because everyone's just a butthurt baby.

I disagree with this analogy. From what I've seen it's like: "Here's a little bit of what I've got from Melee." proceeded by, "That's not enough!!!! Give us more!!!!"

Yeah, that analogy was pretty light on Sm4sh's part, sorry.
But I don't want to make a dialogue on how the Melee and Sm4sh community interacts.
You can if you want, but then you'll be inclined to respond to all the butthurt babies that are salt about you "having the wrong opinion".

 

[GeZ]

nah. this very thread "Smash4 has not done anything to deserve EVO". is the one I'm talking about.

Sure, I have seen pro-smash4 threads here - but most of the tone is on the defensive side. defending their game. not cramming their game into our throats. unlike this very thread.

I mean leave the smash4 palyers be. and leave their game be.

Kinda tough when they get Evo. I think being a bit on edge community to community makes sense under those circumstances.

Also because Nintendo is in full support of Smash 4 which sits well with its proponents, but Melee's community is super wary of the Big N, because they've been jilted before.

 

[byebye]

Kinda tough when they get Evo. I think being a bit on edge community to community makes sense under those circumstances.

Also because Nintendo is in full support of Smash 4 which sits well with its proponents, but Melee's community is super wary of the Big N, because they've been jilted before.

We almost have no control over Evo, so why fight over Evo? Smash4 being in Evo doesn't give an excuse for Melee guys to put up campaigns against smash4.

if Evo wants to get Smash4 instead of Melee, then that's that. If Evo hosts Melee over Smash4. then fine.

This provocative thread is being just that. I don't want to point fingers on who started what. but this is not good.

 

[Code Bread]

We almost have no control over Evo, so why fight over Evo? Smash4 being in Evo doesn't give an excuse for Melee guys to put up campaigns against smash4.

if Evo wants to get Smash4 instead of Melee, then that's that. If Evo hosts Melee over Smash4. then fine.

This provocative thread is being just that. I don't want to point fingers on who started what. but this is not good.

Sir, you've said exactly what everyone has been saying since page one. And once again, it's not going to accomplish anything.

 

[BananaBolts]

We almost have no control over Evo, so why fight over Evo? Smash4 being in Evo doesn't give an excuse for Melee guys to put up campaigns against smash4.

if Evo wants to get Smash4 instead of Melee, then that's that. If Evo hosts Melee over Smash4. then fine.

This provocative thread is being just that. I don't want to point fingers on who started what. but this is not good.

I think that you missed GeZ's point:

Also because Nintendo is in full support of Smash 4 which sits well with its proponents, but Melee's community is super wary of the Big N, because they've been jilted before.

GeZ wasn't talking about EVO TOs; he was referring to Nintendo's involvement. Their support of Smash 4 is peculiar seeing as how they were so anti-competitive during Melee's prime.

The point is: Melee had to push hard for EVO and Smash 4 seems to be spoon fed. People are going to be salty over Nintendo's support of Smash 4 simply because Nintendo tried to uproot Melee at one point.

The salt is petty from an outside view but it's understandable... a little, at least. Excusable? probably not.

As for the title, "Smash4 has not done anything to deserve EVO", it's pretty true. As long as Smash 4 proves themselves, things will be fine with me.

 

[byebye]

I think that you missed GeZ's point:


GeZ wasn't talking about EVO TOs; he was referring to Nintendo's involvement. Their support of Smash 4 is peculiar seeing as how they were so anti-competitive during Melee's prime.

The point is: Melee had to push hard for EVO and Smash 4 seems to be spoon fed. People are going to be salty over Nintendo's support of Smash 4 simply because Nintendo tried to uproot Melee at one point.

The salt is petty from an outside view but it's understandable... a little, at least. Excusable? probably not.

As for the title, "Smash4 has not done anything to deserve EVO", it's pretty true. As long as Smash 4 proves themselves, things will be fine with me.

Now that is being more childish. Melee and the other communities didn't get support from Nintendo before.
But now that Smash4 is getting the support, we should fight against it? We should not support it? We should let it go to the hard path?

Really, what does it say to Nintendo? What does it say to the competitive community? What do we achieve by doing this?

Do you also mean that Tekken7, and SF5 seems to be spoon fed by being in Evo in the future? Really?

 

[BananaBolts]

No, I was merely referring to the salt. I'm not excusing the attacks on Smash 4. I'm talking specifically about Melee being salty about Nintendo being two-faced. I think it's great that Nintendo is supporting Smash 4 but it feels too late for many players.

 

[GeZ]

Now that is being more childish. Melee and the other communities didn't get support from Nintendo before.
But now that Smash4 is getting the support, we should fight against it? We should not support it? We should let it go to the hard path?

Really, what does it say to Nintendo? What does it say to the competitive community? What do we achieve by doing this?

Do you also mean that Tekken7, and SF5 seems to be spoon fed by being in Evo in the future? Really?

He's not saying it should be **** on but it makes sense for people to be wary of Nintendo's involvement. It's tough when there's a community that got ripped out of the competitive circuit, to their confusion, and is attacked by the newer playerbase relatively often, pitted against a community that comprises a fair amount of that newer playerbase, and thinks Nintendo has never ever ****ed anything up. Kind of an instance of just acknowledging that some people know better.

It's going to take Nintendo a while to earn back Melee's trust, is all.

 

[Code Bread]

The point is: Melee had to push hard for EVO and Smash 4 seems to be spoon fed. People are going to be salty over Nintendo's support of Smash 4 simply because Nintendo tried to uproot Melee at one point.

The salt is petty from an outside view but it's understandable... a little, at least. Excusable? probably not.

As for the title, "Smash4 has not done anything to deserve EVO", it's pretty true. As long as Smash 4 proves themselves, things will be fine with me.

This is so much lel.
Like, incredible.
How much lel can one post have.
omg

 

[BananaBolts]

This is so much lel.
Like, incredible.
How much lel can one post have.
omg

I don't see what's funny about it. Smash 4 hasn't done anything to deserve EVO other than exist.

Nintendo is supporting Smash 4 even though they've tried to screw the Melee community in the past. Melee players are skeptical and un-trusting of Nintendo.

 

[NewGuy79]

I don't see what's funny about it. Smash 4 hasn't done anything to deserve EVO other than exist.

Nintendo is supporting Smash 4 even though they've tried to screw the Melee community in the past. Melee players are skeptical and un-trusting of Nintendo.

I can answer al your questions on y this happened with in word...

Business

they did that because their a business; and playing their recently released new game is far more beneficial the playing the 10+ year old one that they dont even sell any more ( how the hell do you even expect them to "push" melee considering how old it is)

at this point, the drive happened 2 years ago, smash 4 hype is here, and Evo TOs have no obligation to keep any smash game in at all. so guess what without Nintendo's help or approval you might be seeing NO smash game at EVO at all. hows that sound.
---
oh and once again melee getting into EVO in the first place was never because "melee worked hard to push it in" it was because the "Smash COMMUNITY (you know the whole thing 64, brawl, PM) pushed for it at EVO". to this day I can not fathom how this idea is so hard concept to understand.

 

[mythbust4000]

I want smash4 because its new think about this
Melee we know everything nothing can be discovered so if we have 100 players(not accurate)in melee we will see 5 captain falcons 5 Martha 5 falcons and 85 foxes(not close to reality I'm over doing it their)now yes someone can just chose a link or Mario but pepole don't because they are not good we know this and everything else about melee
Smash4 is new and we know some stuff but we don't know a lot, heak we don't have a teir so it will be existing for all we know Ganon can be top teir and fox bottom teir because of a hidden power like ice climbers with chain grabing so I would like to see smash4 be in evo so it is not fox vs fox 95% smash4 we see different people also smash4 will get patches so the fox thing does not happen

 

[BananaBolts]

I can answer al your questions on y this happened with in word...

Business

they did that because their a business; and playing their recently released new game is far more beneficial the playing the 10+ year old one that they dont even sell any more ( how the hell do you even expect them to "push" melee considering how old it is)

at this point, the drive happened 2 years ago, smash 4 hype is here, and Evo TOs have no obligation to keep any smash game in at all. so guess what without Nintendo's help or approval you might be seeing NO smash game at EVO at all. hows that sound.
---
oh and once again melee getting into EVO in the first place was never because "melee worked hard to push it in" it was because the "Smash COMMUNITY (you know the whole thing 64, brawl, PM) pushed for it at EVO". to this day I can not fathom how this idea is so hard concept to understand.

It seems like people keep ignoring the fact that Nintendo tried to smother the competitive smash scene. While Nintendo wasn't successful at the time, it doesn't mean that they on't suddenly turn on us when the Smash 4 hype slows down. Don't give me all of this "they're a business" crap. I think everyone here knows that but you need to realize that Nintendo has never really been a typical company. They often make risky decisions and they've always tried to do things differently than the competition, even if it hurts them.

Sure, Nintendo makes wise decisions and takes advantage of solid business opportunities but they're always so unpredictable. For all we know, Nintendo could attempt to shut down competitive Smash as soon as the sales numbers start rolling in too slow. Why? Because Nintendo will follow typical business procedures up to a point and then they do what they want. Nintendo has almost always had the mindset of, "Everyone should be a winner."

Don't look at Nintendo as strictly a business that needs to turn a profit. They're so much more than that, for better or worse.

"But BananaButts, you're crazy and you don't know what you're talking about. Nintendo is always so nice. They love Smash 4!!!!"
I love Nintendo too. I'm just choosing to be skeptical about their involvement in the competitive Smash community

Edit: On a point that you made about the entire community pushing for EVO, I'm not even a part of the Melee community... directly. I show support to them by watching streams and trying to speak kindly of them. I am, however, a part of 64 and PM and it's obvious that the majority of the push was from Melee veterans and very generous Brawl players. Thank you, Brawl players. I feel like I did you wrong for not mentioning you guys.

Spoiler

It's really late and I've been studying for my Calculus 2 final so I might not be of sound mind but hey, that's just johns. I'm not really that salty about anything but I suppose you'll just read my post in whatever tone that pleases you're mindset because you're a human with an opinion, just like I am. /truth

 

[NewGuy79]

It seems like people keep ignoring the fact that Nintendo tried to smother the competitive smash scene. While Nintendo wasn't successful at the time, it doesn't mean that they on't suddenly turn on us when the Smash 4 hype slows down. Don't give me all of this "they're a business" crap. I think everyone here knows that but you need to realize that Nintendo has never really been a typical company. They often make risky decisions and they've always tried to do things differently than the competition, even if it hurts them.

Sure, Nintendo makes wise decisions and takes advantage of solid business opportunities but they're always so unpredictable. For all we know, Nintendo could attempt to shut down competitive Smash as soon as the sales numbers start rolling in too slow. Why? Because Nintendo will follow typical business procedures up to a point and then they do what they want. Nintendo has almost always had the mindset of, "Everyone should be a winner."

Don't look at Nintendo as strictly a business that needs to turn a profit. They're so much more than that, for better or worse.

"But BananaButts, you're crazy and you don't know what you're talking about. Nintendo is always so nice. They love Smash 4!!!!"
I love Nintendo too. I'm just choosing to be skeptical about their involvement in the competitive Smash community

Edit: On a point that you made about the entire community pushing for EVO, I'm not even a part of the Melee community... directly. I show support to them by watching streams and trying to speak kindly of them. I am, however, a part of 64 and PM and it's obvious that the majority of the push was from Melee veterans and very generous Brawl players. Thank you, Brawl players. I feel like I did you wrong for not mentioning you guys.

Spoiler

It's really late and I've been studying for my Calculus 2 final so I might not be of sound mind but hey, that's just johns. I'm not really that salty about anything but I suppose you'll just read my post in whatever tone that pleases you're mindset because you're a human with an opinion, just like I am. /truth

Spoiler

Srry dude but you can think about Nintendo as optimistically as you want, but thats never gona change the fact that there a company and every company has a bottom line that need to reach. right now their bottom line is WiiU and 3DS not single 10+ year old game, it's just not feasible to expect them to give support for a product in which they will mack little to no profit from ( im speaking strictly $ profit)

and hey were all aware that nintendo can be complet ***** sometimes, hell theres several things that they do that grind my gears regularly. but the reality here is that smash is their baby not ours they controle it, and if we wana keep on playing with the baby out in the public spear then we gota play nice with it's parent. it dosent matter if we think that their stupid or that somthing they have done makes them untrustworthy, were still the 3rd party in this relationship and nintendo choses that it wants to keep it's baby from playing out in the Public with us then they will.

oh and to make it abundantly clear, melee was only streamed last EVO because Mr.Wizard did the smart thing of reaching out to Nintendo and getting their permission ( and sponsorship) to stream the game. last I hear Mr.wizard isn't so keen on the logistic nightmare that smash seem to make (CRTs everywhere, save data, tourney for both 1v1 and 2v2), so who knows how long he's gona be willing to go through that AND the hassel that is Nintendo just so he can stream Melee.

Spoiler

believe I dont think me or any ine else is particularly mad at your opinion, in fact im writting this more to be informative to the community as while. your view is just a very divisive one quite frankly if adopted would split our comunity ( even more than it is) in half, so as an onlooker I'd rather try to rebuttal it straight away rather then just leaving it be, no offense. and ya im studying for some philosophy exams myself so I feel ya man.

 

[BananaBolts]

I, and many others, don't care if Nintendo doesn't lend a hand to Melee. I'm trying to come off in a more, "Be wary of Nintendo" kind of way. I realize that Nintendo is supporting Smash 4 simply for the money and they obviously won't pour money into Melee for business reasons. Also, my point about Nintendo being screwy still stands.

Nintendo would be crazy if they tried to shut down streams and tournaments for their game. They've attempted it in the past so I'll never count them out. Until then, we'll keep playing with Nintendo's baby as we see fit. The game was meant to be consumed by us, the consumers. It wasn't made to be selfishly hogged by Nintendo. In that regard, the whole parent/baby analogy completely falls apart.

Spoiler

College really sucks, doesn't it? So many hoops to jump through that I feel like I'm a circus animal

 

[Dragoomba]

Obviously it's not every new fighting game under the sun. Popularity is another requirement. I'd expect Xrd and P4AU to be there, and UNIEL probably has a good shot. P4A was there this year iirc. Since Smash has been at EVO the past two years with huge success, I expect it to come back next year and Smash 4 is the natural choice since it's the new game in the series, just like what happens for every other fighting game series. Do you think there will be a big argument about SFV replacing USFIV when it comes out?

P4A was not at EVO this year.

There'd only be a big argument about SFV replacing Ultra if the developers made the game more casual friendly by intentionally butchering the competitive aspect of it by making it slower, more floaty, and almost getting rid of combos entirely. Then from there, the universal distaste for the game from the competitive community would influence EVO's decision. How can you bring up the argument of "Smash 4 is the natural choice since it's the new game in the series, just like what happens for every other fighting game series" given the past two EVOs? You realize Brawl was the newer and more popular (to the general public) game than Melee was, right?

But UMvC3 is actually broken. Like, besides being a fundamentally dumb game that places too much emphasis on inputs vs fundamentals, it's tiers are busted, as the top can make crazy comebacks for free, and a lot of characters have infinites, because the game stopped being patched, because Capcom lost the rights to distribute it.

Don't talk out your *** about games you don't know about :v

UMvC3 is a wacky game but the tiers are nowhere near busted compared to other fighting games in history. It's actually pretty balanced given the variable effect of team-building considering there are over 30 characters that are competitively viable. The "crazy comebacks for free" applies to pretty much every character because of X-Factor, and the only top tier character that's a godlike anchor is Vergil, who literally has among the worst incoming defense in the game, so it's likely that he doesn't even get to play. Not to mention the snapback function's main purpose is to get rid of these anchors before they go on a tear. Also, in regards to TAC infinites, they're all escapable, and I honestly wouldn't say they ruin the game since every touch means a dead character anyway, Basically, UMvC3 gets called broken a lot by people who don't bother to learn how to get around stuff, or people who just don't play it.

"Don't talk out your *** about games you don't know about :v"

 

[GeZ]

UMvC3 is a wacky game but the tiers are nowhere near busted compared to other fighting games in history. It's actually pretty balanced given the variable effect of team-building considering there are over 30 characters that are competitively viable. The "crazy comebacks for free" applies to pretty much every character because of X-Factor, and the only top tier character that's a godlike anchor is Vergil, who literally has among the worst incoming defense in the game, so it's likely that he doesn't even get to play. Not to mention the snapback function's main purpose is to get rid of these anchors before they go on a tear. Also, in regards to TAC infinites, they're all escapable, and I honestly wouldn't say they ruin the game since every touch means a dead character anyway, Basically, UMvC3 gets called broken a lot by people who don't bother to learn how to get around stuff, or people who just don't play it.

"Don't talk out your *** about games you don't know about :v"

Except that Virgil anchor teams win most tournaments.
Except that Spiderman has an infinite.
Except that Doom has an infinite.
Except that while creative team comp exists, the majority of Majors are won by the top tier.
Except that one of the people that made it into top 16 at the last evo for this game lives in my town and thinks this game is ********, but still practices it because he likes money more than he dislikes the game.

You're trying to defend a game who's competitive scene is dying down relatively because the game doesn't get developer support anymore, so all the dumb **** that's in, which is a lot, is just there for good.

Edit: plus UMvC3 is just so lackluster in general. Like, even if all that **** were fixed, it would still be a game with low emphasis on fundamentals, and high emphasis on combo optimization. Just play USF4 if you want to play a 2d fighter. Better by leaps and bounds.

 

[Dragoomba]

Except that Virgil anchor teams win most tournaments.

Teams is the key word.

Except that Spiderman has an infinite.

What happened to the "top tier is busted"? Also literally only one player can get this off consistently. I might as well pull the "Abel has an infinite" card.

Except that Doom has an infinite.

Show me his non-TAC infinite.

Except that while creative team comp exists, the majority of Majors are won by the top tier.

Gee, it's almost as if that's the case with every single fighting game including Smash. Have you ever watched any other tournament?

Except that one of the people that made it into top 16 at the last evo for this game lives in my town and thinks this game is ********, but still practices it because he likes money more than he dislikes the game.

I made top 32 at EVO, and I like the game. I've also won multiple tournaments and made thousands playing this game. That was a terrible example, you could have just said "PR Balrog wins tournaments and he hates the game."

You're trying to defend a game who's competitive scene is dying down relatively because the game doesn't get developer support anymore, so all the dumb **** that's in, which is a lot, is just there for good.

Second most entrants at EVO. Any game that isn't USF4 isn't dead, apparently. Also I'm pretty sure Melee doesn't get developer support either, lol.

Edit: plus UMvC3 is just so lackluster in general. Like, even if all that **** were fixed, it would still be a game with low emphasis on fundamentals, and high emphasis on combo optimization. Just play USF4 if you want to play a 2d fighter. Better by leaps and bounds.

What even are fundamentals to you? Do you honestly want every single fighting game to play exactly the same? UMvC3 is pretty stupid, but you're stating all the wrong reasons. Your bias is so obvious that it's hilarious. I play tons of fighting games, including Reversal Street Fighter 4, and enjoy all of them.

Do you even have any credibility other than "I know someone who placed well at a tournament"? It's like you thought you could get away with acting like you're a part of the FGC because this is a Smash forum.

Since this is pretty off-topic, you can PM me if you want to continue this, lol.

 

[GeZ]

Nah, I'm good man. Should probably stop though.

 

[Code Bread]

It's okay, guys. Going off topic in this thread is about as efficient as staying on topic in this thread.

I, and many others, don't care if Nintendo doesn't lend a hand to Melee. I'm trying to come off in a more, "Be wary of Nintendo" kind of way. I realize that Nintendo is supporting Smash 4 simply for the money and they obviously won't pour money into Melee for business reasons. Also, my point about Nintendo being screwy still stands.

Nintendo would be crazy if they tried to shut down streams and tournaments for their game. They've attempted it in the past so I'll never count them out. Until then, we'll keep playing with Nintendo's baby as we see fit. The game was meant to be consumed by us, the consumers. It wasn't made to be selfishly hogged by Nintendo. In that regard, the whole parent/baby analogy completely falls apart.

Nintendo tried to shut down streams for a thirteen year old game (twelve at the time? I don't know) that wasn't their latest game at the time. Sm4sh is the latest smash game and I don't see Nintendo shutting down its streams whether its sales are low or not. Until a new smash game comes out. Don't pretend that streaming the decade old version that Nintendo doesn't support is the same as streaming their newest game. Nintendo is wonky, but they're not stupid.
Nintendo is kind of stupid, but they're not that stupid.

Spoiler

I'm not in college yet, but I have the chance to get in free and I'm not sure if I want to take it. I just love being part of conversations.

 

[foxyopiumfun]

As long items aren't on (like they did with brawl) sm4sh should do fine.

 

[shapular]

Edit: plus UMvC3 is just so lackluster in general. Like, even if all that **** were fixed, it would still be a game with low emphasis on fundamentals, and high emphasis on combo optimization.

To be fair, some people like games like that. See: Melee players, PM players.

 

[GeZ]

To be fair, some people like games like that. See: Melee players, PM players.

There's something to be said for the Smash series as a whole not having enough depth, but of the ones that could have arguments made to be the best competitively, Melee is definitely the most viable, though I know you say this **** out of your ass to try to be inflamamtory

 

[shapular]

There's something to be said for the Smash series as a whole not having enough depth, but of the ones that could have arguments made to be the best competitively, Melee is definitely the most viable, though I know you say this **** out of your *** to try to be inflamamtory

Nah, I've always believed that about PM even when I was practicing it a lot and going to tournaments. There's a guy in my town who used to be on our local power rankings. I could tell he wasn't as good as his placings, because even though he had decent tech skill and combos, his neutral game sucked. But he did well anyway because he could win neutral for free using Lucas and Mario. He doesn't do as well in 3.5 now that he actually has to do work in neutral. For Melee I guess you could say you need fundamentals in general, but if you're using Fox or Falco all you need is enough tech skill to be able to spam drillshines and you won't get punished.

 

[GeZ]

Nah, I've always believed that about PM even when I was practicing it a lot and going to tournaments. There's a guy in my town who used to be on our local power rankings. I could tell he wasn't as good as his placings, because even though he had decent tech skill and combos, his neutral game sucked. But he did well anyway because he could win neutral for free using Lucas and Mario. He doesn't do as well in 3.5 now that he actually has to do work in neutral. For Melee I guess you could say you need fundamentals in general, but if you're using Fox or Falco all you need is enough tech skill to be able to spam drillshines and you won't get punished.

P:M definitely has had its problems design wise, but what you said about Melee is blatantly untrue, and you know it. I don't know why you have this fatty bias for Melee, maybe because of the long standing history of Melee vs Brawl arguments, but you've got to learn to make the distinction between preference and objective quality.

If you want to say Melee is broken from spamming tech skill (which is bull), I could just as easily say that Brawl top tiers are ******** and polarizing with zero to death chain grabs from IC's and overall much better tools from MK (which is, in a similar way, bull).

 

[Mikkelmann]

I think we should give smash 4 a chance it isnew and At least it's not just like brawl.

 

[Jumbolias]

Same I think we should give smash 4 a chance

 

[byebye]

Mr. Wizard asking about Smash 4 banned stages in twitter. Interesting development.
But he goes on to say that this question was just for research and doesn't mean anything which games are good to go for Evo.

Right Mr. Wizard - just for research huh? gotcha. ;p

 

[Code Bread]

Someone should tell him FD is banned.

 

[Brinzy]

Glad to see this community hasn't changed.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

P:M definitely has had its problems design wise, but what you said about Melee is blatantly untrue, and you know it. I don't know why you have this fatty bias for Melee, maybe because of the long standing history of Melee vs Brawl arguments, but you've got to learn to make the distinction between preference and objective quality.

If you want to say Melee is broken from spamming tech skill (which is bull), I could just as easily say that Brawl top tiers are ******** and polarizing with zero to death chain grabs from IC's and overall much better tools from MK (which is, in a similar way, bull).

I wouldn't say Melee is objectively better when it tries the smash thing from a different angle, and some design choices that even I think are kinda stupid. PM trying to re add it and keep certain aspects of it is why I don't like it a lot more than Melee which is what it is. Pretty much why I choose to not support or practice PM is the fact I do not want to support a project that continues to annoy me in design choice, even with 3.5 fixing some issues.

There are a lot of Melee players that try to make up their bad fundamentals with tech skill. Granted this is in Brawl and Smash 4 as well but it's more apparent there where the requirement is higher. Good fundamentals are still at the top but trust me, there are a lot of PM and Melee players that get away with gimmicks and relying on their better tech skill to win over raw fundamentals.

I'm ok with Tech skill being a thing, just not to the point where it's not applicable and some aspects are just there to make the game harder with no real benefit to the overall game play.

 

[BananaBolts]

I wouldn't say Melee is objectively better when it tries the smash thing from a different angle, and some design choices that even I think are kinda stupid. PM trying to re add it and keep certain aspects of it is why I don't like it a lot more than Melee which is what it is. Pretty much why I choose to not support or practice PM is the fact I do not want to support a project that continues to annoy me in design choice, even with 3.5 fixing some issues.

There are a lot of Melee players that try to make up their bad fundamentals with tech skill. Granted this is in Brawl and Smash 4 as well but it's more apparent there where the requirement is higher. Good fundamentals are still at the top but trust me, there are a lot of PM and Melee players that get away with gimmicks and relying on their better tech skill to win over raw fundamentals.

I'm ok with Tech skill being a thing, just not to the point where it's not applicable and some aspects are just there to make the game harder with no real benefit to the overall game play.

I respect this post. The only issue I see is this:

Good fundamentals are still at the top but trust me, there are a lot of PM and Melee players that get away with gimmicks and relying on their better tech skill to win over raw fundamentals.

Fundamentals will triumph almost indefinitely. If a player falls for a gimmick, then he probably wasn't relying on smart fundamentals. Gimmicks are gimmicks and they're only effective against poor fundamentals, generally speaking. Honestly, a lot of advanced tech is completely useless without good fundamentals; that's not to say that some don't exist.

IMO, a player who loses to a gimmick has only himself to blame.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I respect this post. The only issue I see is this:


Fundamentals will triumph almost indefinitely. If a player falls for a gimmick, then he probably wasn't relying on smart fundamentals. Gimmicks are gimmicks and they're only effective against poor fundamentals, generally speaking. Honestly, a lot of advanced tech is completely useless without good fundamentals; that's not to say that some don't exist.

IMO, a player who loses to a gimmick has only himself to blame.

This is more so true for PM than Melee when I think the gimmick part comes up.

Top level players even sometimes fall for it, not so much in Melee but you get the idea. Affects players more so around mid level if anything.

Fundamentals are always important for any game but tech skill can sometime overshadow this and make not really as important. Melee and PM kind of fall into this area.

 

[BananaBolts]

This is more so true for PM than Melee when I think the gimmick part comes up.

Top level players even sometimes fall for it, not so much in Melee but you get the idea. Affects players more so around mid level if anything.

Fundamentals are always important for any game but tech skill can sometime overshadow this and make not really as important. Melee and PM kind of fall into this area.

I agree with your notion that it affects mid-level play the most.

I think that the real issue here seems to be a lack of stress on fundamentals. I'm sure that you've seen countless new players join the community only to be barraged with information about tech options and things that they're pressured to learn. The lack of emphasis on fundamentals leads to players that get fairly far down the road and hit a mental wall because they didn't start out practicing strong fundamentals.

I had to catch myself slipping when I first started because I saw wavedashing and I said, "Cool! I want to wavedash and waveland everywhere!" I stopped myself when I realized that I needed to learn more fundamental things like basic spacing, enemy awareness (their moveset and the available options present at any time), conservative play (not too aggro), basic baiting, basic movement discipline (e.g. not running off of the stage and burning a double jump instead of jumping before leaving the stage). I could go on but you get the point.

I feel like the veteran community is to blame for the stress on tech skill over fundamentals. The result from this stress is perpetual mid-level play that makes players' game-play stale and shallow.