Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[IronTed]

Super Smash bros is only toys (trophies) fighting each other, so all canonicity is thrown out the window by default.

 

[?????????????]

Super Smash bros is only toys (trophies) fighting each other, so all canonicity is thrown out the window by default.

And yet, people tell me Ridley is too big...

 

[N3ON]

And yet, people tell me Ridley is too big...

He's that deluxe toy that you have to spend more money on because he comes in a bigger box.

 

[Morbi]

Super Smash bros is only toys (trophies) fighting each other, so all canonicity is thrown out the window by default.

Not true. If Super Smash Brothers is about dolls fighting each other, that is the true canon and therefore not thrown out the window. All I can say is that my special edition Odyssey Bowser is more powerful than base Bowser because he has a white top hat. Checkmate.

 

[andimidna]

Imagine if they discontinued customs *and* still didn’t switch out Palutena’s moves for the ones people actually use when given a choice

 

[Luminario]

But... this doesnt reflect at all on Animal Crossing. Or even the character himself...

Oh it's definitely out of character, I just think it'll be kinda cool. In reality he could be the perfect bard type character who's slow but makes up for it with gimmicky musical note projectiles and other sound based attacks with his guitar. KK Slider goes at his own pace, and hes playstyle should reflect that. He could also take the bard thing further to become Smash's first team buffer.

Out of the veteran non-clone characters, what special moves would you like to change?

I'm not including clones bc I'd guess that most of us would like a decloning overhaul.

The move that comes to mind for me (probably because I'm playing Star Allies) is Kirby's side+b. I think it was cool in Melee because Dedede wasn't there, but now that he is here, I don't think Kirby needs the Hammer ability. I would really like to see some of the other powers from Kirby get utilized. I would personally like to see Staff take it's place. Kirby could use the pole-vault move. It would give him a fast horizontal recovery move with decent range. I think it would have Kirby do a kick after vaulting, and end with him in free-fall so he can't use both side B and up B in the same recovery sequence.

Someone on this thread ages ago suggested that Hammer be removed for Kirby's old Burning dash attack, and I still think that's a fantastic idea.
Zelda down B for a new stun trap, mentioned that before too.
Change ZSS' up B slightly so that instead of doing that weird split pose into the air, she rises with the gun pointed up and the beam whip spiraling around her before kicking. I think it'll just look better.
Change Palutena's Reflect so that it actually does what it's meant to do and hang around for at least a few seconds, but remove the windbox on it so that the devs don't think having it onscreen for that long is unfair.
Again with Palutena, change Heavenly Light so it's not that big ass hitbox over her head that she has to hold, and instead have it as a smaller localised ray of light that she can summon then leave to do it's job. Also make it weaker as a result.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

I didn't want to post this because it was a quick idea shortly after the Smash trailer, and wanted to give it more thought and time to see how things work out, but guess I might as well see what Smash Boards thinks.

My first legit attempt at a 5mash roster:

Super Mario [8]:

-Mario
-Luigi
-Bowser
-Peach
-Rosalina
-Bowser Jr
-Paper Mario (New)
-Captain Toad (New)

Legend of Zelda [6]:

-Link {Breath of the Wild}
-Zelda {Breath of the Wild}
-Gaondorf {Twilight Princess}
-Sheik
-Toon Link
-Urbosa (New)

Pokemon [6]:

-Pikachu
-Jigglypuff
-Charizard
-Lucario
-Greninja
-Gen 8 Pokemon (New)

Fire Emblem [6]:

-Marth
-Ike
-Robin
-Corrin
-Celica (New)
-FE16 Character (New)

Animal Crossing [2]:

-Villager
-Isabelle (New)

Donkey Kong [3]:

-DK
-Diddy Kong
-King K. Rool (New)

Kirby [3]:

-Kirby
-Metaknight
-King DeDeDe

Kid Icarus [2]:

-Pit
-Palutena

Earthbound/Mother [2]:

-Ness
-Lucas

Xenoblade [2]:

-Shulk
-Rex (New)

-Metroid [3]:

-Samus
-Zero Suit Samus
-Sylux (New)

Star Fox [2]:

-Fox
-Falco

WarioWare/Wario Land [2]:

-Wario
-Ashley (New)

Miscellaneous [10]:

-Inklings {Splatoon} (New)
-Spring Man/Ribbon Girl {ARMS} (New)
-Little Mac {Punchout}
-Captain Falcon {F-Zero}
-Olimar/Alph {Pikmin}
-Wii Fit Trainer {Wii Series}
-Yoshi {Yoshi's Island}
-Mii Gunner
-Mii Swordfighter
-Mii Brawler

Retro [5]:

-Mr. Game & Watch
-ROB
-Ice Climbers
-Duck Hunt
-Muddy Mole (New)

Third Party [8]:

-Sonic
-Mega-Man
-Pac-Man
-Ryu
-Bayonetta
-Cloud
-Shantae (New)
-Bomberman (New)

70 Characters
16 Newcomers

 

[IronTed]

Not true. If Super Smash Brothers is about dolls fighting each other, that is the true canon and therefore not thrown out the window. All I can say is that my special edition Odyssey Bowser is more powerful than base Bowser because he has a white top hat. Checkmate.

Checkmate indeed.

And yet, people tell me Ridley is too big...

Sadly they only seem to make Ridley in the biggest size available.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

And yet, people tell me Ridley is too big...

You'd think that by now people would understand that Ridley is shorter than some other big beasts. I've already mentioned the Ruined Dragon, and even Smaug is a lot bigger than Ridley. I'd go even further by mentioning Kraid as well, but in the end, Ridley's biggest problem is not his size, but the fact that his wingspan is quite large.

 

[Cosmic77]

Could Ridley actually get an unconventional appearance as playable?

Possibly. Last game he showed up as a stage hazard on the 3DS citing that he couldn't make Ridley work. Considering how he worded his explanation for Ridley's disconfirmation, there's no way he'll be considered for a traditional playable role again. If all we get is another Stage Hazardly on Pyrosphere, I don't expect Sakurai to bring up Ridley since he's already given his answer last game.

But what if Ridley gets a different role in this game? Sakurai may not see Stage Hazardly as an adequate solution to appease fans and he does keep coming back to him as a character. Each role Ridley has gotten has been a different one and who's to say that won't happen again? It would seem weird for Sakurai to just not bring up Ridley again this game since he's aware of the fan demand and I doubt the conversation going on with Ridley will simply be "return Ridley as stage hazard in Pyrosphere". There's got to be something more to it. Especially when considering that he got a SSB4 icon on Wii U like other characters which I would compare to Giga Bowser, and I'm not on the boat that he was planned or even seriously considered for playable status last game.

What I'm thinking is that Sakurai may actually make a playable Ridley this time. Not that people will be able to select him on the roster, but maybe something like a giant boss mode, a game on Event Match where you play as Ridley against other Smash fighters, or something like that.

I know that leaks are unreliable but I've been thinking about the two Ridley leaks that haven't been disconfirmed yet and if more relatively credible sources points towards Ridley as playable, then that may mean something. Both the ERA (although jonnen said later on was speculation) and now the Vergeben leak have said Ridley is playable. The last leak in particular stresses "the BIGGEST character addition IS finally happening..." so the fact he emphasized biggest with Ridley's inclusion makes me think he'll be added in a way no one, not even people who firmly believe he's getting in, sees coming. If so, this could finally be the compromise Sakurai is satisfied with and he will make a statement about it seeing as he would hype it up with "hints" like he did stage hazard Ridley.

tl;dr: there may be a chance for a non-traditional playable Ridley. If so, what would you think of it?Not half-bad if I say so myself. I'd be okay with this showing up.

I don't know how a playable Ridley will be implemented in Smash Switch, if he's even implemented at all. However, I do think this idea is treading on dangerous waters. This new mode certainly won't be exclusive to Ridley, and I'm certain the other possible candidates for this mode have their own fan support as well. I don't think Sakurai creating a playable Ridley (or any other character) with a full unique moveset only to restrict him from the normal roster is a wise idea.

I'll take anything I can get, but I think Sakurai is better off making him a normal character or not making him a character at all.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

He's that deluxe toy that you have to spend more money on because he comes in a bigger box.

Like in the lottery machine?

 

[?????????????]

You'd think that by now people would understand that Ridley is shorter than some other big beasts. I've already mentioned the Ruined Dragon, and even Smaug is a lot bigger than Ridley. I'd go even further by mentioning Kraid as well, but in the end, Ridley's biggest problem is not his size, but the fact that his wingspan is quite large.

 

[Deleted member]

Would there be a big backlash if there is no Xenoblade newcomer and Shulk is once again by himself?

That's not going to happen. Unless he cuts a character that will affect sales, everyone will move on after like a week and play Smash like everyone else.

The only character that could have gotten in was the Inklings and we already got them. Unless someone can make a case for another newcomer costing lots of potential customers by not adding in, the answer is a big, resounding "NO!"

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Could Ridley actually get an unconventional appearance as playable?

Possibly. Last game he showed up as a stage hazard on the 3DS citing that he couldn't make Ridley work. Considering how he worded his explanation for Ridley's disconfirmation, there's no way he'll be considered for a traditional playable role again. If all we get is another Stage Hazardly on Pyrosphere, I don't expect Sakurai to bring up Ridley since he's already given his answer last game.

But what if Ridley gets a different role in this game? Sakurai may not see Stage Hazardly as an adequate solution to appease fans and he does keep coming back to him as a character. Each role Ridley has gotten has been a different one and who's to say that won't happen again? It would seem weird for Sakurai to just not bring up Ridley again this game since he's aware of the fan demand and I doubt the conversation going on with Ridley will simply be "return Ridley as stage hazard in Pyrosphere". There's got to be something more to it. Especially when considering that he got a SSB4 icon on Wii U like other characters which I would compare to Giga Bowser, and I'm not on the boat that he was planned or even seriously considered for playable status last game.

What I'm thinking is that Sakurai may actually make a playable Ridley this time. Not that people will be able to select him on the roster, but maybe something like a giant boss mode, a game on Event Match where you play as Ridley against other Smash fighters, or something like that.

I know that leaks are unreliable but I've been thinking about the two Ridley leaks that haven't been disconfirmed yet and if more relatively credible sources points towards Ridley as playable, then that may mean something. Both the ERA (although jonnen said later on was speculation) and now the Vergeben leak have said Ridley is playable. The last leak in particular stresses "the BIGGEST character addition IS finally happening..." so the fact he emphasized biggest with Ridley's inclusion makes me think he'll be added in a way no one, not even people who firmly believe he's getting in, sees coming. If so, this could finally be the compromise Sakurai is satisfied with and he will make a statement about it seeing as he would hype it up with "hints" like he did stage hazard Ridley.

tl;dr: there may be a chance for a non-traditional playable Ridley. If so, what would you think of it?Not half-bad if I say so myself. I'd be okay with this showing up.

The thought has passed me before as we all know Sakurai likes to try and push the boundaries as much as possible, but for me that'd be the absolute worst case scenario. As a stage hazard you see him everytime you play the stage (granted Pyrosphere was an awful stage that I turned off almost immediately), as a standard boss you saw him every time you did Boss Battles or Subspace Emissary, twice even, if he's turned into what is essentially a boss character he'd just be part of some gimmicky mode that most of us wouldn't play beyond a handful of times. Furthermore, if it'd be a mode that would return in future installments Ridley would forever be locked as a gimmick, which would be awful as when a new director eventually has to take over Ridley would otherwise be granted a bit of hope with that. Make him a proper character or don't make him playable at all.

For the record I don't really think that's what the "leak" was referring to, it doesn't seem like Vergeben has been told any details at all, just that Ridley is playable. If we are to give the leaks the benefit of the doubt then I doubt a special mode would be one of the first pieces of information to leak, after all Ridley is the only character to feature in any sort of notable leaks so far (allegedly alongside Inklings in the Jonneh leak). It's just a joke, like the thousand of other size jokes about him.

 

[Cosmic77]

I wonder if the Smash fanbase has made the Metroid character design artists hate their job.

"We can't make the wings that big, Johnny! The fans would tear us apart!"

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Let’s talk Miis. They’ve had some games since Smash 4 of decent success (Tamodatchi Life and Miitopia)

Do you see Miis returning?

Do you see them getting more movesets based on recent games?

It would be great if they borrowed from Miitopia since it did exactly what Mii Fighters did but in a fantasy context.
My one concern is that there would only be a couple jobs and they'd pick the least interesting ones. Chef is okay, but we really don't need idol or cat. Vampire would be fantastic and tank would be amusing.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

He's that deluxe toy that you have to spend more money on because he comes in a bigger box.

Which makes me wonder if Nintendo ever allowed Funkos of their franchises would Funko have to event a new size of Funko for dear old Ridley. As far as I know the largest they go in retail is 9 inches.

 

[Luminario]

I didn't want to post this because it was a quick idea shortly after the Smash trailer, and wanted to give it more thought and time to see how things work out, but guess I might as well see what Smash Boards thinks.

My first legit attempt at a 5mash roster:

Super Mario [8]:

-Mario
-Luigi
-Bowser
-Peach
-Rosalina
-Bowser Jr
-Paper Mario (New)
-Captain Toad (New)

Legend of Zelda [6]:

-Link {Breath of the Wild}
-Zelda {Breath of the Wild}
-Gaondorf {Twilight Princess}
-Sheik
-Toon Link
-Urbosa (New)

Pokemon [6]:

-Pikachu
-Jigglypuff
-Charizard
-Lucario
-Greninja
-Gen 8 Pokemon (New)

Fire Emblem [6]:

-Marth
-Ike
-Robin
-Corrin
-Celica (New)
-FE16 Character (New)

Animal Crossing [2]:

-Villager
-Isabelle (New)

Donkey Kong [3]:

-DK
-Diddy Kong
-King K. Rool (New)

Kirby [3]:

-Kirby
-Metaknight
-King DeDeDe

Kid Icarus [2]:

-Pit
-Palutena

Earthbound/Mother [2]:

-Ness
-Lucas

Xenoblade [2]:

-Shulk
-Rex (New)

-Metroid [3]:

-Samus
-Zero Suit Samus
-Sylux (New)

Star Fox [2]:

-Fox
-Falco

WarioWare/Wario Land [2]:

-Wario
-Ashley (New)

Miscellaneous [10]:

-Inklings {Splatoon} (New)
-Spring Man/Ribbon Girl {ARMS} (New)
-Little Mac {Punchout}
-Captain Falcon {F-Zero}
-Olimar/Alph {Pikmin}
-Wii Fit Trainer {Wii Series}
-Yoshi {Yoshi's Island}
-Mii Gunner
-Mii Swordfighter
-Mii Brawler

Retro [5]:

-Mr. Game & Watch
-ROB
-Ice Climbers
-Duck Hunt
-Muddy Mole (New)

Third Party [8]:

-Sonic
-Mega-Man
-Pac-Man
-Ryu
-Bayonetta
-Cloud
-Shantae (New)
-Bomberman (New)

70 Characters
16 Newcomers

Isabelle, Ashley, Urbosa, Shantae, and Celica, all on the same roster? Sold.

 

[?????????????]

Which makes me wonder if Nintendo ever allowed Funkos of their franchises would Funko have to event a new size of Funko for dear old Ridley. As far as I know the largest they go in retail is 9 inches.

Oh no, my wife collects Dragon Funkos. She has Smaug and Alduin.

 

[splat]

I wonder who will become the scapegoat this time.

Sakurai. As usual.

 

[?????????????]

I got a warning on my "picture only" post, so...to put it into words...

I don't even think Ridlley's large wingspan has to be an issue 'cause in Super Metroid, he had a pretty small wingspan.

Ultimately, if Ridley were to ever become playable in Smash Bros., he would need a design that's specifically built for Smash Bros. I think Super Metroid Ridley is a pretty good base for that; it's iconic, it has a small wingspan, and it's not even all that big by comparison.

 

[BrytonJ]

Let’s talk Miis. They’ve had some games since Smash 4 of decent success (Tamodatchi Life and Miitopia)

Do you see Miis returning?

Do you see them getting more movesets based on recent games?

People have already said this but I'm absolutely into them dropping the three class thing and having a singular moveset based on mii centric games. Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Sports Resort, Miitopia, Tomodachi Life, etc. I've wanted Miis in since Brawl and was super disappointed to see them get mostly relegated to "hey we couldn't include this actual character in the game so here's a Mii version." My absolute no. 1 wanted redesign.

If I'm gonna be honest the fact that Miis are barely on the switch at all tells me it's pretty likely they won't make it in.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

I know there are plenty of people that don't like Cloud being in Smash because he's never been on a Nintendo console, besides small cameos, but how would you guys feel if Cecil replaced Cloud as the FF rep?

 

[Luminario]

I got a warning on my "picture only" post, so...to put it into words...

I don't even think Ridlley's large wingspan has to be an issue 'cause in Super Metroid, he had a pretty small wingspan.

Ultimately, if Ridley were to ever become playable in Smash Bros., he would need a design that's specifically built for Smash Bros. I think Super Metroid Ridley is a pretty good base for that; it's iconic, it has a small wingspan, and it's not even all that big by comparison.

We can't use these tiny ass pixel art from super old games as a way to explain how Ridley would work. Going off a purposely deformed pixel version of him just wont cut it.

 

[N3ON]

Sakurai. As usual.

If that were true it would actually make more sense than blaming a character.

 

[ErenJager]

Would there be a big backlash if there is no Xenoblade newcomer and Shulk is once again by himself?

I wouldn't mind. I bought the game, it's okay. I don't really care for the characters.

Let’s talk Miis. They’ve had some games since Smash 4 of decent success (Tamodatchi Life and Miitopia)

Do you see Miis returning?

Do you see them getting more movesets based on recent games?

They'll probably return.
I don't really like them.
Um, hopefully they become a proper character at some point.

 

[Freduardo]

We can't use these tiny *** pixel art from super old games as a way to explain how Ridley would work. Going off a purposely deformed pixel version of him just wont cut it.

Yeah... because Game and Watch and Flying Man don’t exist in the game.

 

[?????????????]

We can't use these tiny *** pixel art from super old games as a way to explain how Ridley would work. Going off a purposely deformed pixel version of him just wont cut it.

Ohhhh...does Super Nintendo 16-bit count as "super old deformed pixels"? I thought it was clean enough.

 

[Deleted member]

I know there are plenty of people that don't like Cloud being in Smash because he's never been on a Nintendo console, besides small cameos, but how would you guys feel if Cecil replaced Cloud as the FF rep?

Cecil would be cool, but I'd be baffled if he replaced a beloved veteran who got in due to being the most highly requested FF character in the first place. I'd rather see the two coexist, if possible.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ohhhh...does Super Nintendo 16-bit count as "super old deformed pixels"? I thought it was clean enough.

It's still a sprite, is the point. Also, he still has a very long tail in that form regardless.

As for Mii's, I prefer them the way they are. Maybe expand the custom moves to allow for far more, but otherwise, I think they're great as archtype-style fighters with costumes. I love to play as various characters I can make. It's fun~ And answers people's wishes to play as non-game characters very well.

 

[Deleted member]

Cecil is a cool concept character but I'd also like him and Cloud together if they could put them together!

 

[Knight Dude]

Out of the veteran non-clone characters, what special moves would you like to change?

I'm not including clones bc I'd guess that most of us would like a decloning overhaul.

The move that comes to mind for me (probably because I'm playing Star Allies) is Kirby's side+b. I think it was cool in Melee because Dedede wasn't there, but now that he is here, I don't think Kirby needs the Hammer ability. I would really like to see some of the other powers from Kirby get utilized. I would personally like to see Staff take it's place. Kirby could use the pole-vault move. It would give him a fast horizontal recovery move with decent range. I think it would have Kirby do a kick after vaulting, and end with him in free-fall so he can't use both side B and up B in the same recovery sequence.

I think that's a cool idea. I was thinking that maybe his old Melee Dash attack could be made into his Side-B. I also wanted to see Samus' Ice beam implemented in some way. Either by adding the ice effect on the Missiles like in Fusion/Prime 3 or by adding the ice effect on her Neutral B and freezing on contact. The moves would still function the same, but one of them would have the freezing effect. The missile would be better since the charge shot has K.O potential.

Sonic had that Fire Somersault thing in one game, maybe that can be his Down B or something.

Mega Man has a ton of weapons, so there's a lot to choose from. I'd make Rush do damage if you drop him on someone, popping them up so you can still style on them with the Air Shooter. If not that, then no big deal. Maybe change Crash Bomb to another explosive weapon, namely the Flash Grenade from Mega Man 8. I like his other Specials as it is.

 

[?????????????]

It's still a sprite, is the point. Also, he still has a very long tail in that form regardless.

I can post a picture as long as it's accompanied by words, right?

Spoiler: Super Metroid Box Art

Even on the official box art, his wingspan doesn't look that bad to me...what do y'all think? As for the tail, I was thinking you could do a retracting tail that only lengthens during attacks.

 

[Starcutter]

They could have made Ridley bigger in Super Metroid, they chose not to. (For example, they made Kraid HUGE, and all the other bosses are also bigger than Ridley.)

My personal favorite size comparison is the EU/US Super Metroid boxart.

I know there's a perspective issue here, but I think the size comparison here would work in Smash.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I can post a picture as long as it's accompanied by words, right?

Spoiler: Super Metroid Box Art

Even on the official box art, his wingspan doesn't look that bad to me...what do y'all think? As for the tail, I was thinking you could do a retracting tail that only lengthens during attacks.

That could work. Albeit, he's still huge, but the design looks easier to shrink down. As long as you can make a good 3D model of it.

And to answer your other question, yes you can. As long as the text his meaningful.

 

[Starcutter]

They could have made Ridley bigger in Super Metroid, they chose not to. (For example, they made Kraid HUGE, and all the other bosses are bigger than him.)

My personal favorite size comparison is the EU/US Super Metroid boxart.

I know there's a perspective issue here, but I think the size comparison here would work in Smash.

(EDIT: I can't believe I posted the boxart at the same time as Pizza, haha)

EDIT: TFW you try to edit a post and accidentally respond to it instead. Whooops.

 

[N3ON]

I still maintain Ridley can work in Smash. I guess we'll see where Sakurai stands on the matter in a few months.

 

[Cereal Bawks]

Cecil is a cool concept character but I'd also like him and Cloud together if they could put them together!

Same, I just can't see FF having two reps, though.

 

[?????????????]

I know there are plenty of people that don't like Cloud being in Smash because he's never been on a Nintendo console, besides small cameos, but how would you guys feel if Cecil replaced Cloud as the FF rep?

On a completely personal basis, I would be totally okay with that, but only because that's my favorite Final Fantasy.

...I don't think that will be the case, though.

 

[Lyndis_]

Let’s talk Miis. They’ve had some games since Smash 4 of decent success (Tamodatchi Life and Miitopia)

Do you see Miis returning?

Do you see them getting more movesets based on recent games?

I would be very upset if Miis didn't return, they're so fun to play around with.

Remove weight/height stats and custom moves, replace them with more classes with specific stats. I'd be so happy.

Imagine a Mii Caster (like Zelda), or a Mii Trapper (like Snake), etc;

There could be many fun and unique variants of the Mii fighters.

This way you still have the customization of your Mii and chosen cosmetics, with a wider variety of playstyles due to the additional classes, not to mention it would allow them to be tourney legal without any hiccups.

This added variety also helps the single player/co-op modes, as whenever you encounter Fighting Mii Team you aren't pitted against the same three enemy types.