Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MSmariosonic]

So, it seems to me that the most persistent debate is whether this is an enhanced port or an entirely new game. I have a theory that maybe it’s a little of both. I think overall, if this theory is true, it would ultimately be unpopular with fans. Suppose Nintendo went with a Street Fighter V/Killer Instinct/Dissidia model where content is slowly released via updates during the lifespan of the game.

So at launch, the game would have reduced content as opposed to it being packed with content as per usual. Upon releasing, it would in theory be a Wii U port but will then transition into its own game with continuous updates that would extend past 2018 and maybe even into 2022.

Perhaps the starting roster would be the characters we saw in the teaser including Zelda, Peach, Bowser, Shiek, and the original 12 with Inklings as the sole newcomer. Then, both veterans and newcomers would be unveiled and then a soft trial release period followed by a global release.

That way, content like Pokemon Switch or Gen 8 or Metroid Prime 4 has a chance of appearing post launch. Obviously, content isn’t dedicated solely to characters but a wide range of game content.

I think it wouldn’t go well with the community but I think it’s a possibility.

I honestly wouldn't mind something like this. It will keep the game fresh for a very long time.
As long as the launch won't be so bare-boned like SFV, i'm all for it.

 

[-crump-]

So, it seems to me that theersistent debate is whether this is an enhanced port or an entirely new game. I have a theory that maybe it’s a little of both. I think overall, if this theory is true, it would ultimately be unpopular with fans. Suppose Nintendo went with a Street Fighter V/Killer Instinct/Dissidia model where content is slowly released via updates during the lifespan of the game.

So at launch, the game would have reduced content as opposed to it being packed with content as per usual. Upon releasing, it would in theory be a Wii U port but will then transition into its own game with continuous updates that would extend past 2018 and maybe even into 2022.

Perhaps the starting roster would be the characters we saw in the teaser including Zelda, Peach, Bowser, Shiek, and the original 12 with Inklings as the sole newcomer. Then, both veterans and newcomers would be unveiled and then a soft trial release period followed by a global release.

That way, content like Pokemon Switch or Gen 8 or Metroid Prime 4 has a chance of appearing post launch. Obviously, content isn’t dedicated solely to characters but a wide range of game content.

I think it wouldn’t go well with the community but I think it’s a possibility.

This really doesn’t seem like something Sakurai would do. The man is a total perfectionist, and he was hesitant to even include DLC in Smash 4. I doubt he would take such a drastic turn in direction with this series, especially when Nintendo has so much riding on their big name sellers. I also doubt Sakurai wants to be holed up working on the same game for years on end after it’s release.

Besides Sakurai, Nintendo games as a whole rarely rely on large scale DLC. This idea would be way out of Nintendo’s playbook, and they must know something like this would piss of fans and ward off potential sales.

 

[Cosmic77]

This really doesn’t seem like something Sakurai would do. The man is a total perfectionist, and he was hesitant to even include DLC in Smash 4. I doubt he would take such a drastic turn in direction with this series, especially when Nintendo has so much riding on their big name sellers. I also doubt Sakurai wants to be holed up working on the same game for years on end after it’s release.

Besides Sakurai, Nintendo games as a whole rarely rely on large scale DLC. This idea would be way out of Nintendo’s playbook, and they must know something like this would piss of fans and ward off potential sales.

Flashbacks to the fan reaction of Nintendo announcing that BotW would have DLC.

 

[chefpenguin]

I can't decide if I want Decidueye, Mimikyu, or someone less likely like Metagross or something as a new Pokemon rep.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

I'm 38 pages behind.. I'm on page 471.

 

[Gestahl]

Something I missed in Wii U is some decent statistics. The WiiU was unintresting cuz you could not compare one another. I need more like the Melee statistics.

Another thing is that I would want to have one personal costume maker, an option with a colorpallette (spelling?) so you can decide the colour of Marios pants etc

 

[WiFi]

Keep DK's movement from Smash 4 and please don't change his speed or anything like that. Smash 4 DK was a drastic improvement over DK is all the other Smash games.

 

[-crump-]

Keep DK's movement from Smash 4 and please don't change his speed or anything like that. Smash 4 DK was a drastic improvement over DK is all the other Smash games.

Agreed, although I wouldn’t mind changing his side-b and up-b to something more representative of his series.

Smash 4 made DK satisfying to play, rather than just being clunky and slow.

 

[Robertman2]

we got a leak thread/group yet? I need me some fake leaks

 

[Deleted member]

we got a leak thread/group yet? I need me some fake leaks

Not yet as far as I'm aware.

 

[Robertman2]

Not yet as far as I'm aware.

dang

 

[Freduardo]

Donkey Kong character thoughts.

Playable Potentials:
DK (obviously)
Diddy (in)
Dixie (likely)
K Rool (Likely)
Pauline (could go either way)
Funky (not likely)
Cranky (not likely)
Lanky (Not likely)

-

Awesome Almost Assists (none are likely as DK has NEVER got an assist trophy):
DK Jr.
Stanley the Bugman
Chunky
Tiny
Kiddy
Wrinkly
Rambi
Espresso
Krunch
Lord Fredrik
Banjo Ukelele (just as an FU to rare)
Tiki Tong
Cactus/Ghastly King

-

Item ideas:
Bongo Drums
Bananas
DK Barrels
KONG letters
Cranky’s bouncing cane.

 

[Opossum]

- Fire Emblem can get maybe ONE more new character without it getting ridiculous. Hopefully someone unique. Are there any recurring villains of note?

Recurring characters in general are pretty few and far between, outside of sequels and remakes. Fire Emblem is set up like Final Fantasy where each game is usually a radically different world, barring specific circumstances.

There are some pretty good villains though. Some fan favorites include Hardin from FE3/12, Berkut from FE15, Arvis from FE4, Lyon from FE8, and the Black Knight from FE9 and FE10. Of them Hardin is probably my favorite (he's among my favorite Fire Emblem characters in general), and if he got in he'd likely use his Emperor persona, wielding the Gradivus lance and being heavily armored.

Spoiler: Hardin, plus actual spoilers

Hardin's honestly a pretty tragic character too. In the War of Shadows (the war that took place in Shadow Dragon that was the start of Marth's story), he was his among Marth's closest allies, leading the Aurelian troops alongside Marth's Altean League and helping to keep Princess Nyna, the last living member of the Archanean royal family, safe. Come FE3/12, the sequel, and he marries her...for political reasons. He thinks it's genuine love, but it's not. I won't get into why here, but he sinks into a depression and in his moment of vulnerability, he's corrupted by the dark sorcerer Gharnef and brainwashed, basically, using his immense power to try to rule over the entire continent with an iron fist.

He only regains his old mind when Marth kills him, realizing what he'd done while possessed. He's a sad and really interesting character for a lot of reasons, but none that are relevant to Smash, haha.

That being said, due to the way Fire Emblem characters are chosen, a villain is more than likely not gonna happen, especially since they don't tend to be as popular as the game's protagonist anyway (even the Black Knight, the most popular antagonist, isn't as popular as Ike).

 

[Freduardo]

Recurring characters in general are pretty few and far between, outside of sequels and remakes. Fire Emblem is set up like Final Fantasy where each game is usually a radically different world, barring specific circumstances.

There are some pretty good villains though. Some fan favorites include Hardin from FE3/12, Berkut from FE15, Arvis from FE4, Lyon from FE8, and the Black Knight from FE9 and FE10. Of them Hardin is probably my favorite (he's among my favorite Fire Emblem characters in general), and if he got in he'd likely use his Emperor persona, wielding the Gradivus lance and being heavily armored.

Spoiler: Hardin, plus actual spoilers

Hardin's honestly a pretty tragic character too. In the War of Shadows (the war that took place in Shadow Dragon that was the start of Marth's story), he was his among Marth's closest allies, leading the Aurelian troops alongside Marth's Altean League and helping to keep Princess Nyna, the last livingmember of the Archanean royal family, safe. Come FE3/12, the sequel, and he marries her...for political reasons. He thinks it's genuine love, but it's not. I won't get into why here, but he sinks into a depression and in his moment of vulnerability, he's corrupted by the dark sorcerer Gharnef and brainwashed, basically, using his immense power to try to rule over the entire continent with an iron fist.

He only regains his old mind when Marth kills him, realizing what he'd done while possessed. He's a sad and really interesting character for a lot of reasons, but none that are relevant to Smash, haha.

That being said, do to the way Fire Emblem characters are chosen, a villain is more than likely not gonna happen, especially since they don't tend to be as popular as the game's protagonist anyway (even the Black Knight, the most popular antagonist, isn't as popular as Ike).

Arvis isn’t more popular than the protagonist of four? He has to be. He won. And Sigurd and Seliph, while nice, have the personality of Labo (cardboard).

 

[pupNapoleon]

There are a lot of ports of Wii U titles with added content exclusive to the Switch. To say Wii U owners got the short end of the stick is an understatement.

There is way more to Smash than the recent developments. Smash Bros. is my favorite franchise: nothing builds hype like the endless possibilities of a new Smash game. A port, however, doesn't, as the most exciting possibilities aren't possible or highly unlikely. I don't want to play Smash for Wii U on Switch, lol. That's the only game that still semi-justifies my Wii U purchase. In other words:

Inherently your second point is untrue_
we arent sure this game coming isnt a port, and it is generating massive hype.
It makes me very sad that you are holding yourself back from feeling the power that smash is back, simply because the game engine may or may not be different. That's actually the only difference between if it is a port or not. And I suppose if there are massive cuts that is also a difference, and a fair one.

That said, I am a Wii owner. I bought three first day and gave two to friends. Few love Wii U like I did.
And still I am very happy the games are coming to the Switch. I do hope that I can transfer all of my non Wii U digital games over to the Switch, THAT would be more of a failure to exclude, from my eyes. I don't have any issue with the ports of certain games, and have even rebought Mario Kart and Pokken, with intention to buy Hyrule Warriors and Tropical Freeze again.

Arvis isn’t more popular than the protagonist of four? He has to be. He won. And Sigurd and Seliph, while nice, have the personality of Labo (cardboard).

I wouldn't say Sigurd and Seliph are anywhere near to the immense popularity of Labo.

(I know your point was that Labo is not popular, but I would argue you are falling into the trap of listening to the echochamber).

 

[DraginHikari]

So, it seems to me that the most persistent debate is whether this is an enhanced port or an entirely new game. I have a theory that maybe it’s a little of both. I think overall, if this theory is true, it would ultimately be unpopular with fans. Suppose Nintendo went with a Street Fighter V/Killer Instinct/Dissidia model where content is slowly released via updates during the lifespan of the game.

So at launch, the game would have reduced content as opposed to it being packed with content as per usual. Upon releasing, it would in theory be a Wii U port but will then transition into its own game with continuous updates that would extend past 2018 and maybe even into 2022.

Perhaps the starting roster would be the characters we saw in the teaser including Zelda, Peach, Bowser, Shiek, and the original 12 with Inklings as the sole newcomer. Then, both veterans and newcomers would be unveiled and then a soft trial release period followed by a global release.

That way, content like Pokemon Switch or Gen 8 or Metroid Prime 4 has a chance of appearing post launch. Obviously, content isn’t dedicated solely to characters but a wide range of game content.

I think it wouldn’t go well with the community but I think it’s a possibility.

The only thing that makes me question this is Nintendo has generally not utilized these kind of models. When it comes to monenization they usually take quite a while to change to newer business models. They took much longer to start using DLC, Season passes, and that's like only in the last few generations. I'm not sure people would respond well to the SFV model very well in this particular case.

 

[?????????????]

I'm curious now as to thoughts on new Kirby characters. Is there enough of a demand for someone new, or are we satisfied with Kirby, Meta Knight, and Dedede?

Personally, I'm fine with the line-up we already have. When I was younger, I wanted a REAL Kirby villain added (I don't think of Dedede as a true villain), so I advocated for Dark Matter, in his swordsman form with Zero as a Final Smash.

Since then, Bandana Dee has established itself to a point where many would call him a "main character," and I think he has an interesting enough moveset and fighting style to work with that would be unique to Smash Bros. There's always been other characters, like Galacta Knight, tossed around as well.

But now, with Kirby Star Allies, we're seeing a resurgence of other old favorites, like Gooey and Marx. What do you think?

 

[Opossum]

Arvis isn’t more popular than the protagonist of four. And Sigurd and Seliph, while nice, have the personality of Labo (cardboard).

I think Sigurd beat him in the CYL polls, but I'm not certain. I do think, however, Arvis is our best shot at getting an FE villain...but not in this Smash game.

It'd rely on a Genealogy remake happening during the development of a new Smash, Sigurd being deemed unfeasible due to fighting on horseback, and Seliph being deemed redundant.

 

[Robertman2]

I laugh when people say it's mean to Wii U owners when Nintendo ports Wii U games to the Switch. Such bizarre thinking

 

[?????????????]

I laugh when people say it's mean to Wii U owners when Nintendo ports Wii U games to the Switch. Such bizarre thinking

The mentality I can understand is people being upset they bought and stuck with the Wii U, and now people who didn't are getting to experience the same games they initially skipped out on. It feels like "not being rewarded for being loyal to Nintendo."

...That's not how I feel though. I'm glad everyone gets to play such wonderful titles as Tropical Freeze now. I probably won't buy it again just to play as Funky Kong, but I hope other people enjoy it!

 

[-crump-]

Recurring characters in general are pretty few and far between, outside of sequels and remakes. Fire Emblem is set up like Final Fantasy where each game is usually a radically different world, barring specific circumstances.

There are some pretty good villains though. Some fan favorites include Hardin from FE3/12, Berkut from FE15, Arvis from FE4, Lyon from FE8, and the Black Knight from FE9 and FE10. Of them Hardin is probably my favorite (he's among my favorite Fire Emblem characters in general), and if he got in he'd likely use his Emperor persona, wielding the Gradivus lance and being heavily armored.

Spoiler: Hardin, plus actual spoilers

Hardin's honestly a pretty tragic character too. In the War of Shadows (the war that took place in Shadow Dragon that was the start of Marth's story), he was his among Marth's closest allies, leading the Aurelian troops alongside Marth's Altean League and helping to keep Princess Nyna, the last livingmember of the Archanean royal family, safe. Come FE3/12, the sequel, and he marries her...for political reasons. He thinks it's genuine love, but it's not. I won't get into why here, but he sinks into a depression and in his moment of vulnerability, he's corrupted by the dark sorcerer Gharnef and brainwashed, basically, using his immense power to try to rule over the entire continent with an iron fist.

He only regains his old mind when Marth kills him, realizing what he'd done while possessed. He's a sad and really interesting character for a lot of reasons, but none that are relevant to Smash, haha.

That being said, do to the way Fire Emblem characters are chosen, a villain is more than likely not gonna happen, especially since they don't tend to be as popular as the game's protagonist anyway (even the Black Knight, the most popular antagonist, isn't as popular as Ike).

Black Knight and Hardin would be sick, if only so we could see some slow, heavily armored characters. Black Knight is yet another swordie, but it would still be badass.

That said, you neglected to mention the true champion among FE antagonists...

Spoiler: TRUE BEAUTY

 

[Deleted member]

I'm curious now as to thoughts on new Kirby characters. Is there enough of a demand for someone new, or are we satisfied with Kirby, Meta Knight, and Dedede?

Personally, I'm fine with the line-up we already have. When I was younger, I wanted a REAL Kirby villain added (I don't think of Dedede as a true villain), so I advocated for Dark Matter, in his swordsman form with Zero as a Final Smash.

Since then, Bandana Dee has established itself to a point where many would call him a "main character," and I think he has an interesting enough moveset and fighting style to work with that would be unique to Smash Bros. There's always been other characters, like Galacta Knight, tossed around as well.

But now, with Kirby Star Allies, we're seeing a resurgence of other old favorites, like Gooey and Marx. What do you think?

Bandana Dee is the only one that stands a chance right now imo. Not complaining since he's my 3rd most wanted newcomer.
However, IF he's added (which isn't extremely likely nor unlikely, imo), I'd like to see a Kirby villain being added after him to round off the series. I don't normally want villains for the sake of villains, but I think some of them could be really interesting and would round off the series nicely (I don't count Dedede as a villain either. Seriously, he hasn't been a true villain since Spring Breeze in Super Star - WHICH WAS A REMAKE OF DREAM LAND - and he assisted Kirby multiple times in the past).

Edit: This seems relevant

 

[DraginHikari]

I'm curious now as to thoughts on new Kirby characters. Is there enough of a demand for someone new, or are we satisfied with Kirby, Meta Knight, and Dedede?

Personally, I'm fine with the line-up we already have. When I was younger, I wanted a REAL Kirby villain added (I don't think of Dedede as a true villain), so I advocated for Dark Matter, in his swordsman form with Zero as a Final Smash.

Since then, Bandana Dee has established itself to a point where many would call him a "main character," and I think he has an interesting enough moveset and fighting style to work with that would be unique to Smash Bros. There's always been other characters, like Galacta Knight, tossed around as well.

But now, with Kirby Star Allies, we're seeing a resurgence of other old favorites, like Gooey and Marx. What do you think?

Your probably right as far as Bandana Dee is probably the only one who'd remotely be considerable. The thing is the Kirby games tend to add different characters and rarely do these characters come into play in future games and if they do they are generally references or easter eggs. Like Dark Matter may appear in multiple games but he hasn't had a consistent form between those games. Given Bandana Dee only came into existence on the Wii, Metaknight and DDD have really been the only major mainstays throughout the series as a whole.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

we got a leak thread/group yet? I need me some fake leaks

After what happened to the last leaks thread/group, don't expect it to ever be a thing again.

 

[pupNapoleon]

The only Kirby villain I could see being added is Dark Matter, and I'm not sure I would say he has much of a shot for any specific reason.
I think Bandana Dee would be a nice conclusion to Kirby's roster.

 

[Deleted member]

Bandana Dee only came into existence on the Wii

Correction: He got his first major role on the Wii.

^that's from the original Kirby Super Star

Besides, I think he's been prominent enough in recent years to be called a staple.

 

[Freduardo]

Inherently your second point is untrue_
we arent sure this game coming isnt a port, and it is generating massive hype.
It makes me very sad that you are holding yourself back from feeling the power that smash is back, simply because the game engine may or may not be different. That's actually the only difference between if it is a port or not. And I suppose if there are massive cuts that is also a difference, and a fair one.

That said, I am a Wii owner. I bought three first day and gave two to friends. Few love Wii U like I did.
And still I am very happy the games are coming to the Switch. I do hope that I can transfer all of my non Wii U digital games over to the Switch, THAT would be more of a failure to exclude, from my eyes. I don't have any issue with the ports of certain games, and have even rebought Mario Kart and Pokken, with intention to buy Hyrule Warriors and Tropical Freeze again.


I wouldn't say Sigurd and Seliph are anywhere near to the immense popularity of Labo.

(I know your point was that Labo is not popular, but I would argue you are falling into the trap of listening to the echochamber).

Nah, I think labo is popular.

I just was using it as a different word for cardboard when mocking the personality of Sigurd and Seliph.

 

[?????????????]

Okay, here's another one: who are some of your favorite characters from already-existing Smash franchises that you don't think stand a chance, but you think would be fun to play?

I've got Fawful, Lanky Kong, Jimmy T., Hawlucha, Hades, Duster, and Mighty Gazelle.

 

[Freduardo]

I'm curious now as to thoughts on new Kirby characters. Is there enough of a demand for someone new, or are we satisfied with Kirby, Meta Knight, and Dedede?

Personally, I'm fine with the line-up we already have. When I was younger, I wanted a REAL Kirby villain added (I don't think of Dedede as a true villain), so I advocated for Dark Matter, in his swordsman form with Zero as a Final Smash.

Since then, Bandana Dee has established itself to a point where many would call him a "main character," and I think he has an interesting enough moveset and fighting style to work with that would be unique to Smash Bros. There's always been other characters, like Galacta Knight, tossed around as well.

But now, with Kirby Star Allies, we're seeing a resurgence of other old favorites, like Gooey and Marx. What do you think?

Dee’s got the most shot. His move set is there and we still don’t have a spear fighter like him.

That said I think with Kirby star allies your best shot at a kirby villain is still not a real villain, it’s Marx.

Honestly I’d love Gooey and am happy to see him back in the franchise. The original Kirby player 2.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, here's another one: who are some of your favorite characters from already-existing Smash franchises that you don't think stand a chance, but you think would be fun to play?

*points at own profile picture*

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Given Bandana Dee only came into existence on the Wii,

Actually he debuted on Super Star as a minigame boss, got expanded upon in Super Star Ultra and then got on Return to Dreamland. Though I believe he was in Mass Attack too as a cameo

 

[pupNapoleon]

Okay, here's another one: who are some of your favorite characters from already-existing Smash franchises that you don't think stand a chance, but you think would be fun to play?

I've got Fawful, Lanky Kong, Jimmy T., Hawlucha, Hades, Duster, and Mighty Gazelle.

Fawful is actually a great idea, imo. He is a big part of the Mario world and possibly even a missing component.
I just dont know how we would get him before a Paper Mario.

All those other characters are just pennies on the dollar.

 

[?????????????]

All those other characters are just pennies on the dollar.

I MIGHT argue that Jimmy T. is prominent in the Wario universe. For as much as I've seen fan-made rosters with Kat & Ana or Ashely, it doesn't seem that weird to me.

 

[Starcutter]

Oh man Kirby characters.

Bandana waddle Dee is probably going to get in this time but there's a few I'd rather get in, somehow all from dreamland 2. That being Dark Matter (Swordsman), Rick, as well as gooey.

 

[Xenorange]

Ahhh so good to be back in this ****in place. NEW GAME???? BACK TO THE BOARDS!!!

 

[pupNapoleon]

I MIGHT argue that Jimmy T. is prominent in the Wario universe. For as much as I've seen fan-made rosters with Kat & Ana or Ashely, it doesn't seem that weird to me.

When we get a real Warioware game again (Switch), I will feel that it could get a new character.
And I hope it is a game with Waluigi so that it makes sense to include him (as, it would be very odd for Waluigi to be a Mario symbol when Wario is not).

But I do love Ashley. She just isnt that important to gaming.

 

[DraginHikari]

Correction: He got his first major role on the Wii.

^that's from the original Kirby Super Star

Besides, I think he's been prominent enough in recent years to be called a staple.

Actually he debuted on Super Star as a minigame boss, got expanded upon in Super Star Ultra and then got on Return to Dreamland. Though I believe he was in Mass Attack too as a cameo

I had completely forgotten about that. Though in my defense he wasn't really an established characters as the bandana in Megaton punch was simply to try to fit the martial arts theme so it was probably easy for me to forget lol

 

[Opossum]

Okay, here's another one: who are some of your favorite characters from already-existing Smash franchises that you don't think stand a chance, but you think would be fun to play?

I've got Fawful, Lanky Kong, Jimmy T., Hawlucha, Hades, Duster, and Mighty Gazelle.

Oh man, so many.

Super Mario: E. Gadd, King Boo
Pokémon: Snorlax, Ursaring, Shiftry, Sawsbuck, Chandelure, Klefki, Ribombee. And Looker, somehow.
Fire Emblem: Chrom, Virion, Merric, Caeda, Hardin, Silque (she can spawn Dread Fighters with a staff...that's awesome)
Pikmin: Emperor Bulblax (gotta respect the OG villain), Waterwraith (...and you gotta respect proto-Tabuu)
Xenoblade: Tora and Poppi
Punch-Out!!: Doc Louis, King Hippo, Great Tiger, Bald Bull, and Glass Joe as a joke character
Street Fighter: Dhalsim

 

[Freduardo]

Okay, here's another one: who are some of your favorite characters from already-existing Smash franchises that you don't think stand a chance, but you think would be fun to play?

I've got Fawful, Lanky Kong, Jimmy T., Hawlucha, Hades, Duster, and Mighty Gazelle.

Okay... you asked for this...

Mario: Fawful
Wario: Captain Syrup
Yoshi: Kamek
Donkey Kong: Lord Fredrik
Zelda: Vaati
Pokemon: Gengar
Kid Icarus: Medusa (also like 99% of the characters in Uprising)
Fire Emblem: Alvis
Kirby: Gooey
F-Zero: Pico
Earthbound/Mother: Pu
Punch Out: Bald Bull
Metroid: Weevil
Xenoblade: Tora
Star Fox: Pigma
Animal Crossing: KK Slider

... I’m not doing third parties or retros this time.

All franchises represented in Smash by assist trophies now get represented by playable characters.

 

[Chandeelure]

After Bandana Dee, I think the most likely Kirby character is Magolor.

Popular, potential and one of the few villains that did not disappear forever.

Spoiler

Also planned to be playable in Star Allies, but scrapped. Probably will come as DLC.