Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Kirbeh]

Other than buffed old modes, I just want a Battlefield form for every stages, why not even a Big Battlefield form too for 8-player havocs, along the FD form.

While it'd probably take more work than they'd likely have time for, I'd like a completely revised version of Omega form stages. Instead of each stage being FD, it'd be neat if every stage did have a competitive friendly variation, but was still partly based on the base stage to have more layouts instead of just FD over and over.

 

[Curious Villager]

I'd like to see Sakurai just go ahead and make a hazard switch already. (We already sort of have it with 8 player Smash, just expand it and make it a proper option)
And let us make, say, stock matches the default instead of having to set it up every time we boot the game up and all...

 

[PsychoJosh]

Is it alright if I plug my Earthworm Jim thread?

I'd love it if he got in.

https://smashboards.com/threads/in-...d-fall-earthworm-jim-for-smash-switch.446912/

 

[FunAtParties]

Is it alright if I plug my Earthworm Jim thread?

I'd love it if he got in.

https://smashboards.com/threads/in-...d-fall-earthworm-jim-for-smash-switch.446912/

I had completely forgotten about him.

 

[Arcadenik]

Just remove the poor man's Angry Birds and give us a normal Break the Targets again.

Oh, and please fix Trash Tour into something that isn't as broken. All of that trouble for a stage, one track, and a couple trophies.

I like Target Blast. It was fun to try to get the high score. It felt like an arcade game... but I also want Target Smash back. I want both!

But yeah, let's fix Smash Tour. It wasn't as fun as Smash Run.

 

[Chandeelure]

If they bring back Target Smash it will obviously be like the Brawl version, and that was pretty boring tbh.

 

[FunAtParties]

If they bring back Target Smash it will obviously be like the Brawl version, and that was pretty boring tbh.

Yeah I liked it individulaized per each character, but I can understand how time-consuming that probably is for 50+ characters.

 

[Arcadenik]

Yeah I liked it individulaized per each character, but I can understand how time-consuming that probably is for 50+ characters.

Yeah. I think the next best thing, at least for me, would be individualized per series.

I want a Target Smash stage with Mario series theme, another one with a Zelda series theme, and so on... and all characters can break targets in all of them. How many series with playable characters are there in SSB4?






That's 28 Target Smash stages. Melee had 25. I think that's doable.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Yeah. I think the next best thing, at least for me, would be individualized per series.

I want a Target Smash stage with Mario series theme, another one with a Zelda series theme, and so on... and all characters can break targets in all of them. How many series with playable characters are there in SSB4?






That's 28 Target Smash stages. Melee had 25. I think that's doable.

That's actually sort of genius.

I'd love for this to happen.

 

[N3ON]

Yeah. I think the next best thing, at least for me, would be individualized per series.

I want a Target Smash stage with Mario series theme, another one with a Zelda series theme, and so on... and all characters can break targets in all of them. How many series with playable characters are there in SSB4?






That's 28 Target Smash stages. Melee had 25. I think that's doable.

I like this idea, though obviously the fewer character in a series the more unique you can make the test.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

When talking about guest characters Sakurai said gamers from the 80's and 90's probably already have all the characters they could want, and that there might not be anyone left.

Does anyone agree with that? I don't necessarily agree with it, but I think I understand what he's getting at.

There aren't many characters from games that are unrepresented in Smash from that era that share a similar world wide popularity as the guest characters in Smash (emphasis on world wide).

The only ones I can think of are Heihachi, (who Sakurai wasn't sure would work, and didn't see as a strong candidate) Jill/Leon, (who might have difficulty getting in due to age rating/Sakurai not wanting realistic guns and knives) and Crash Bandicoot, (who lost a lot of his popularity over the years, but maybe the N. Sane Trilogy will renew people's interest).

I don't think characters like Simon Belmont, Bomberman, or Ryu Hyabusa or their series reach the same amount of popularity as the characters and series represented in Smash, and characters like Rayman, Lara Croft, and Scorpion don't have a worldwide popularity (Japan doesn't care about them).

 

[FunAtParties]

Yeah. I think the next best thing, at least for me, would be individualized per series.

I want a Target Smash stage with Mario series theme, another one with a Zelda series theme, and so on... and all characters can break targets in all of them. How many series with playable characters are there in SSB4?






That's 28 Target Smash stages. Melee had 25. I think that's doable.

Makes a lot of sense, but how would we handle obscure series?

 

[PsychoJosh]

When talking about guest characters Sakurai said gamers from the 80's and 90's probably already have all the characters they could want, and that there might not be anyone left.

Does anyone agree with that? I don't necessarily agree with it, but I understand what he's getting at..

I don't agree. There is always room for new barriers to cross.

Notice how all the characters in Smash are of Japanese origin, with the possible exception of Diddy Kong. If Sakurai truly believes it's true that all possible 80's and 90's characters are represented, then the answer is to start putting in more niche characters.

For an eastern childhood character, they could add Lip or Takamaru. For a western childhood character, they could add Banjo-Kazooie or Earthworm Jim. They could work with a company and do a full on clash/crossover title with all the mascots of that company, like Nintendo vs. Sega. There are many avenues left unexplored that they could think about doing, and the character potential is far from exhausted.

 

[Arcadenik]

Makes a lot of sense, but how would we handle obscure series?

For example, Duck Hunt themed Target Smash stage could be based on how you used to play Duck Hunt.

The targets are on the ducks. If you missed only one as the 10th duck flew away, that counts as a fail. If you missed the first one but got the other 9, you still lost.

 

[FunAtParties]

When talking about guest characters Sakurai said gamers from the 80's and 90's probably already have all the characters they could want, and that there might not be anyone left.

Does anyone agree with that? I don't necessarily agree with it, but I understand what he's getting at.

There aren't many characters from games that are unrepresented in Smash from that era that share a similar world wide popularity as the guest characters in Smash (emphasis on world wide).

The only ones I can think of are Heihachi, (who Sakurai wasn't sure would work, and didn't see as a strong candidate) Jill/Leon, (who might have difficulty getting in due to age rating/Sakurai not wanting realistic guns and knives) and Crash Bandicoot, (who lost a lot of his popularity over the years, but maybe the N. Sane Trilogy will renew people's interest).

I don't think characters like Simon Belmont, Bomberman, or Ryu Hyabusa or their series reach the same amount of popularity as the characters and series represented in Smash, and characters like Rayman, Lara Croft, and Scorpion don't have a worldwide popularity (Japan doesn't care about them).

Yeah, I don't agree with that either, but it too see what he's getting at.

Plus, it's hard for him to see it any other way, most gamers from that time either lost interest in this series, or at least interest in discussing it, and the popularity of the characters lost in those eras widdle down more and more over time until they just pretty much disappear. From his perspective, it seems like very few care about someone like Ray, for example, but I'm certain there's a lot of people that would love his inclusion, they just don't try anymore, because they were disappointed too many times long before. Newer fans don't really know about characters like that, because they don't get new games, and yeah it kind of confirms itself.

That's why I always find it amazing support communities like Isaac's have stayed so strong over the years. I want to see more of it, and I want Sakurai to as well.


Arcadenik How about a Pac-Man one where four characters chase you as you work your way through a maze to hit the targets?

 

[Bowserlick]

Everyone knows who Scorpion is, and he even has movies under his belt. He should get in. He would finally be able to pull a fatality on Ryu.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Everyone knows who Scorpion is, and he even has movies under his belt. He should get in. He would finally be able to pull a fatality on Ryu.

I'd love to see him brutaly murder children and animals.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Everyone knows who Scorpion is, and he even has movies under his belt. He should get in. He would finally be able to pull a fatality on Ryu.

Fatalities wouldn't happen in a dedicated SF vs. MK game, let alone Smash.

Mortal Kombat has been garbage from day one.

 

[Chandeelure]

Yeah, I would really like Scorpion or Sub-Zero, but Mortal Kombat is probably too gore (is this the new Bayonetta is too sexy?) and also not japanese (does that even matter?, Maybe).

But I definitely think they have a chance, specially after seeing things like Bayonetta's Final Smash and Corrin impaling characters with his Side Special.

 

[FunAtParties]

Yeah, I would really like Scorpion or Sub-Zero, but Mortal Kombat is probably too gore (is this the new Bayonetta is too sexy?) and also not japanese (does that even matter, maybe).

But I definitely think they have a chance, specially after seeing Corrin impaling characters with his Side Special.

But it's done in cartoony way.

We saw with Ryu, Sakurai likes to really bring the feel of their game into Smash, how can that be done for Scorpion without fatalities?

 

[PsychoJosh]

Without fatalities and gore, the MK characters have nothing. That is literally the basis of their entire identity as game characters, which is why they're garbage.

They exist only to be dismembered and decapitated, not to be liked as actual characters. MK vs. DCU took away their fatalities, and all they were left with was a boring, tactless, shallow fighting game.

 

[Schnee117]

I'd love to see him brutaly murder children and animals.

But it's done in cartoony way.

We saw with Ryu, Sakurai likes to really bring the feel of their game into Smash, how can that be done for Scorpion without fatalities?

His most well known fatality is breathing fire on someone.
We already have several characters in game who do that. Make it function like Bayonetta's where it's an insta kill above a certain percentage.

The only other alternative is using his Injustice super move.

 

[Megadoomer]

Everyone knows who Scorpion is, and he even has movies under his belt. He should get in. He would finally be able to pull a fatality on Ryu.

Fatalities to the extent of the modern games would never make it into Smash, but looking up his Fatalities on the Mortal Kombat wiki, I could see some that might work for a Final Smash (though they'd have to tone down some of the violence - obviously, characters couldn't be reduced to a skeleton).

Don't know how likely he is, though - competition seems pretty steep as far as fighting game characters go, between Tekken and SNK at the very least.

 

[FunAtParties]

His most well known fatality is breathing fire on someone.
We already have several characters in game who do that. Make it function like Bayonetta's where it's an insta kill above a certain percentage.

The only other alternative is using his Injustice super move.

I guess that could work, but I don't know it's just not doing it for me.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Mortal Kombat's lack of Japanese popularity and exposure is a major obstacle for Scorpion, regardless of whether or not the violence can be easily toned down.

 

[PsychoJosh]

He is quite dull without the gore.

Add to that the fact that Mortal Kombat is kind of a polarizing game here in North America by itself, even if it is popular, and you have a character that is extremely low on candidacy for Smash.

 

[FunAtParties]

He is quite dull without the gore.

Add to that the fact that Mortal Kombat is kind of a polarizing game here in North America by itself, even if it is popular, and you have a character that is extremely low on candidacy for Smash.

Playing devil advocate, but last couple rounds of DLC were almost exclusively polarizing characters. I don't think that hurts his chances.

 

[Arcadenik]

Everyone knows who Scorpion is, and he even has movies under his belt. He should get in. He would finally be able to pull a fatality on Ryu.

Scorpion's Fatality from the first Mortal Kombat game should be his Final Smash. Instead of actually killing characters, they are launched off stage.

Scorpion is the only Mortal Kombat character I support for Smash even though he's unlikely. Sub-Zero should be the Assist Trophy where he freezes enemies and then rushes in and beats them... and I would love for male Mii Fighters to get the MK II style male ninja costumes... and female Mii Fighters to get the MK II style female ninja costumes.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Playing devil advocate, but last couple rounds of DLC were almost exclusively polarizing characters. I don't think that hurts his chances.

I don't think they were. Certainly not to the degree that Mortal Kombat is.

 

[Arcadenik]

He is quite dull without the gore.

Nah. Instead of bleeding profusely, Scorpion sweats a lot in Smash. It could be an inside joke referring the SNES version of the first Mortal Kombat game.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

While we are on the subject of Scorpion, what are your thoughts on Ryu Hayabusa?

Would Tecmo Koei make the move in promoting their iconic ninja?

 

[Arcadenik]

While we are on the subject of Scorpion, what are your thoughts on Ryu Hayabusa?

Would Tecmo Koei make the move in promoting their iconic ninja?

I also support Ryu Hayabusa. I don't care if people complains about too many ninjas. Scorpion and Ryu Hayabusa aren't remotely similar.

 

[Deleted member]

While we are on the subject of Scorpion, what are your thoughts on Ryu Hayabusa?

Would Tecmo Koei make the move in promoting their iconic ninja?

He's definitely the most likely Tecmo character, but I don't know if that's really saying much. I'd be cool with him, though.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

You could defiantly make Scorpion work in Smash. I'm just not sure Nintendo would be ok with having a character from a game series that is famous for it's excessive violence and it's ability to brutally murder people.

I think it's different then having a character who is known for being sexualized; also it's not like we see Bayonetta get fully naked or perform in coitus in her games. If she did then I could see Nintendo having a problem with puting her in Smash, even if you could just remove those aspects from the character in Smash. It has more to do with the stigma the games/characters hold I feel.

The extreme violence has almost always been the main selling point for the Mortal Kombat games. I never saw sex appeal to be the main selling point for Bayonetta games.

Weren't Nintendo wary about adding Snake into Brawl? If that's true then chances are they would be even more wary about adding a Mortal Kombat character.

 

[Deleted member]

Weren't Nintendo wary about adding Snake into Brawl?

http://nintendoeverything.com/kojima-discusses-how-snake-made-it-into-super-smash-bros-brawl/

I worked hand-in-hand with [director] Mr. [Masahiro] Sakurai, who I also consider a friend. At the time Nintendo thought that Snake felt like a Sony character, and didn’t think he would fit into SSBB. However, I really wanted Snake in the game, and it was through Mr. Sakurai that we were able to reach a consensus and make that happen.

There's a reason why Cloud's inclusion was so surprising.

 

[Deleted member]

It's the pluses that make me really appreciate the Pokemon lineup in Smash.

While I like Pikachu, Charizard, Lucario, Greninja, and Mewtwo in Smash, it's always nice to see Pokemon that aren't being promoted by Pokemon Company in Smash as playable characters.

I just wish that we had more random Pokemon besides Jigglypuff and Ivysaur as playable characters.

Greninja was pretty random when he was revealed.
We had no way in knowing just how much frog ninja was going to be pushed afterwards.

 

[Kirbeh]

As others have already touched upon, you could certainly make Scorpion work by dropping all the major MK elements and leave him as a fire-bending ninja. The issue is that it's Scorpion.

The DLC characters like Cloud, Corrin and Bayonetta were polarizing to the fans due to people being salty over "x" character not getting in over them. Or "x" wasn't deserving for "y" reason, etc, etc.

MK is polarizing to the general public as a franchise. That's what PsychoJosh was trying to get at.

Even with characters like Snake and Bayonetta who have pushed things before, I do think a series like MK is where Nintendo would draw the line. Bayo and MGS are violent, but no where near MK's levels, which as a game , revolves entirely around it's hyper violence & gore.

If they stripped Scorpion of everything that makes MK MK, he wouldn't really be a good representation. But even with that as an option (as we've seen in Injustice) Nintendo likely wouldn't want to associate their brand with the MK series. Not to say they wouldn't ever have MK on their platform because they've had it in the past. I just don't see them being ok with Scorpion going toe to toe with Mario.

Sakurai already had trouble getting Snake to choke characters, but the stigma with MK I feel is too great in comparison to Nintendo who is more and more trying to preserve that squeaky clean image. Perhaps I'm looking into it too much but I think it's somewhat telling that Smash was brought down from a T to an E10+. Plus all the other censorship to their own titles in recent memory.

As for Ryu Hayabusa, I'd be down for that. He's one of my most wanted third-parties at this point, and I feel he still falls in line with Snake and Bayo. Tecmo Koei has always been on fairly good terms with Nintendo, especially now it seems with Hyrule Warriors, Fire Emblem Warriors, the co-ownership of Fatal Frame, etc. Heck, I wouldn't mind Kasumi as a second rep if they were to get two characters.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If we're getting another fighting game character, it'll be Heihachi.

Mortal Kombat most likely isn't on the table.

 

[Luminario]

Scorpion doesn't really suit the whimsical style of smash anyway. There is nothing lighthearted about anything in Mortal Kombat like there is with every single series in smash so far. We're talking about a series that can add monsters from horror films like Freddy Krueger and a Xenomorph as playable characters and they don't remotely look out of place.
Ryu Hayabusa seems like an alright addition to smash. I couldn't give less of a **** about him myself but he's got the Mysterious Ninja™ thing down and I'm sure he's got some unique abilities to bring to the game.

 

[Kirbeh]

Scorpion doesn't really suit the whimsical style of smash anyway. There is nothing lighthearted about anything in Mortal Kombat like there is with every single series in smash so far. We're talking about a series that can add monsters from horror films like Freddy Krueger and a Xenomorph as playable characters and they don't remotely look out of place.
Ryu Hayabusa seems like an alright addition to smash. I couldn't give less of a **** about him myself but he's got the Mysterious Ninja™ thing down and I'm sure he's got some unique abilities to bring to the game.

I wouldn't quite say that either. MK, as gory and violent as it, does have plenty of lighthearted goofy moments and some humor if still dark at times. Friendship, babalities, etc are what come to mind. I get what you mean though.

If we're getting another fighting game character, it'll be Heihachi.

Mortal Kombat most likely isn't on the table.

That does seem like the likely case in regards to Namco. And here I am hoping for Sophitia or Cassandra from Soul Calibur so we can come full circle from SCII on the GC...