Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Arcadenik]

Duck Hunt is a good example: I waned him but thought there was NO WAY they could make it work.. Never doubt Sakurai.

I always knew there was a way to make Duck Hunt Dog work. I have been supporting for Duck Hunt Dog from 2002 to 2014.

I threw out many random ideas over the years and some of them actually got in Smash.

• Dog and Duck teaming up like Banjo-Kazooie
• Duck pecking at opponents
• Person with NES Zapper shooting from the fourth wall
• Duck carrying Dog as Up+B recovery
• Dog throwing clay pigeons as Side+B
• Dog's infamous laugh is in entrance, taunt, Final Smash, and victory pose

I'm just thankful Sakurai helped me prove the detractors wrong.

 

[UserKev]

I'm just thankful Sakurai helped me prove the detractors wrong.

Man. If Sakurai could just do this for Ridley.

 

[Arcadenik]

Man. If Sakurai could just do this for Ridley.

I remember when I was new to SmashBoards way back in 2009, I made a bold claim that Ridley isn't getting in because he's too big and that he's perfect as a boss... and that Duck Hunt Dog would be the surprise retro character of SSB4 like Mr. Game & Watch in Melee and R.O.B. in Brawl.

 

[UserKev]

Who else in favor of dropping custom moves and stage builder?

I see massive benefits without these.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Who else in favor of dropping custom moves and stage builder?

I see massive benefits without these.

Custom special moves can actually make certain fighters work out better, so I wouldn't ditch them. Instead, make it so that you can't acquire duplicates of custom special moves that you've already unlocked.

 

[Deleted member]

Who else in favor of dropping custom moves and stage builder?

I see massive benefits without these.

I'd rather remove masterpieces for a better stage builder.

 

[Curious Villager]

Stage Builder is fine, it just needs to be expanded on with more tools and themes (such as game related) as well as being less buggy to where characters can slip through the smallest gaps and get stuck.....

 

[Zerp]

Who else in favor of dropping custom moves and stage builder?

I see massive benefits without these.

I'm all in favor for removing customs if it means the devs would end up spending more time balancing the characters, making stages, or basically anything other than custom moves. I think Stage Builder has a lot more potential though, if they could make it less buggy and a bit more intuitive then it could be great.

 

[Luminario]

Who else in favor of dropping custom moves and stage builder?

I see massive benefits without these.

Stage Builder has the potential to be super fun but customs are something I'd gladly see go, especially if they can use the time creating, debugging, and balancing them to create other stuff like a better stage builder or more alts.

 

[UserKev]

I'd rather remove masterpieces for a better stage builder.

I forgot about masterpieces. I agree, definitely. Those generally need to go. They take away Smash for me.

 

[Chandeelure]

Yeah, I would personally remove Custom Moves and Masterpieces. Keep Equipment.
I would make the Stage Builder like in Brawl, or create more things to put in the stage, Brawl's Stage Builder had a lot of structures and things like the mushrooms, pillars, ruins, etc.

Custom Moves are just so... badly done, unbalanced and ugly/ridiculous/boring.
And probably take a lot of time considering that the DLC characters didn't have Customs.
Or maybe they just realized that almost nobody cares about them, I don't know.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

I would personally keep Stage Builder but revamp it. It needs more objects.
I'd get rid of Masterpieces, I'm not sure does anyone actually care about them.
Not sure about Custom Moves. I don't personally care about them, but if they are kept, all characters should get them, and the unlocking system needs to be fixed.

 

[Arcadenik]

If they remove custom moves, I hope they make Duck Hunt better.

Neutral B and Side B moves seem fine to me. Up B move needs to let the Dog bite and the Duck fly faster and higher. Down B move needs to have Wild Gunmen shoot faster and the bullets are just as strong as the Mega Gunman and they can take more hits like Mega Gunman.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I will admit that some custom special moves could've been handled better. Mario's Fireball is a notable example on how to properly balance the custom variants, with one variant being faster, less powerful, and easy to spam, while the other is more damaging, but has a larger lag time, and can't be spammed as quickly.

In a similar ordeal, Ganondorf gets a recovery improvement with Wizard's Dropkick, despite lacking the meteor smash property, and being less powerful than Wizard's Foot. However, Wizard's Assault needs to be worked on, since with a larger start-up time, it should've been more powerful overall than Wizard's Foot.

Bowser gets some benefit out of Fire Shot, as its strength doesn't weaken like with Fire Breath and Fire Roar, and it covers a larger distance as well.

As for Counter, one custom variant would have a larger counter window, while having a weaker damage multiplier, while another would have a shorter counter window, while having a stronger damage multiplier.

 

[N3ON]

If they remove customs, please don't leave Palutena's default moveset as is...

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If they remove customs, please don't leave Palutena's default moveset as is...

I think Palutena is probably one of the main reasons why custom special moves were implemented in the first place.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Stage Builder should let you use assets from the actual stages. Like, I should be able to make my own Mario stage that actually looks like a Mario stage, and not some lifeless replica with boring assets. Real backgrounds too, please.

 

[Chandeelure]

I wouldn't mind Palutena's standard Special Moves if they were actually good.
Terrible proyectile, the worse counter, and a pretty meh reflector.
Warp is fine, but very boring, not even a tiny hitbox or something.

I will admit that some custom special moves could've been handled better. Mario's Fireball is a notable example on how to properly balance the custom variants, with one variant being faster, less powerful, and easy to spam, while the other is more damaging, but has a larger lag time, and can't be spammed as quickly.

I'm pretty sure the big one is pretty useless XD
Probably the faster one is better than the slow one, like with everything about this game.

 

[Luminario]

If they remove customs, please don't leave Palutena's default moveset as is...

I'm telling ya, a stance move is the way to go, though I'd take anything other than what she has now (besides Warp, that's actually been consistently useful)

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I'm pretty sure the big one is pretty useless XD
Probably the faster one is better than the slow one, like with everything about this game.

You do need to keep a balance in one way or another. Ganondorf's Warlock Punch customs could use some adjustments though. While Warlock Punch is a slow attack, at least no sweetspot is needed to deliver the most damage.

Now let's look at Warlock Blade. It strikes faster than Warlock Punch, but you need to aim with the blade's tip for the best results. To make the risk/reward factor be more fitting, the sourspot would have poor knockback scaling and deal less damage overall, while the sweetspot, which is quite small, delivers stronger knockback, and deals damage that puts the Warlock Punch to shame.

And last up is Warlock Thrust. It's the weakest Warlock Punch variant, but strikes the quickest of the three. The best way to improve Warlock Thrust would be to buff up the knockback growth for the sweetspot so that it can actually be worth using.

 

[Chandeelure]

You do need to keep a balance in one way or another. Ganondorf's Warlock Punch customs could use some adjustments though. While Warlock Punch is a slow attack, at least no sweetspot is needed to deliver the most damage.

Now let's look at Warlock Blade. It strikes faster than Warlock Punch, but you need to aim with the blade's tip for the best results. To make the risk/reward factor be more fitting, the sourspot would have poor knockback scaling and deal less damage overall, while the sweetspot, which is quite small, delivers stronger knockback, and deals damage that puts the Warlock Punch to shame.

And last up is Warlock Thrust. It's the weakest Warlock Punch variant, but strikes the quickest of the three. The best way to improve Warlock Thrust would be to buff up the knockback growth for the sweetspot so that it can actually be worth using.

But Blade has MUCH more range, so it's more probable that you hit something with it, even if it does poor damage.

Well, all 3 are useless so... yeah, it doesn't really matter much.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

But Blade has MUCH more range, so it's more probable that you hit something with it, even if it does poor damage.

Well, all 3 are useless so... yeah, it doesn't really matter much.

Still, Warlock Blade strikes faster than Warlock Punch, so you would have to keep your distance if you want to land a hit with the much more efficient sweetspot; something that's much easier said than done if your opponent is smart enough to avoid the tip of the blade. It's basically a high risk, high reward kind of attack, with the sourspot offering underwhelming results.

As for Warlock Thrust, it would've been more usable if its knockback growth was higher. For an example on how to do that, I'll simply refer back to my own adjustments to it...

Warlock Thrust Sweetspot
Damage: 18
Angle: Sakurai angle
Base Knockback: 124
Knockback Growth: 32

Warlock Thrust Sourspot
Damage: 12
Angle: 70
Base Knockback: 80
Knockback Growth: 44

Reverse Warlock Thrust Sweetspot
Damage: 24
Angle: Sakurai angle
Base Knockback: 124
Knockback Growth: 32

Reverse Warlock Thrust Sourspot
Damage: 16
Angle: 70
Base Knockback: 80
Knockback Growth: 44

Sweetspot would KO Mario on an Omega Form stage's center at around 129%, while the reverse sweetspot makes the KO at around 89%.

 

[Chandeelure]

Now, Dark Fists is something that is unbalanced XD

Compared to the completely terrible Dark Dive that kills at like 160% or more, Dark Fists kills at like 60% and also has Super Armor (improving Ganondorf's recovery).

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

As we get closer and closer to E3, and I watch prediction videos all over YouTube, I am left on the fence on whether or not we will see Smash at E3.

At first I was certain we'd be seeing it. Not a doubt in my mind. However, we already have a lot of major titles slated for a 2017 release date. Super Mario Odyssey, ARMS, Splatoon 2, Fire Emblem Warriors, Fire Emblem, Kirby (although it's for 3DS) That Mario x Rabbids Battle Kingdom game, and we already got Zelda. It just seems like they wouldn't want to burn through all of their major franchises in one year.

I don't know. I'm starting to get worried. I really want to see Smash for Switch at E3. I hope it's a port that seconds as a platformer where over the course of several months we see new characters, stages, items, what have you added into the game to make it the definitive Smash Bros game for the Switch. I just can't see them waiting too long to announce it in the Switch lifespan. And with Smash 4 having such a incredible roster, and the possibility of having a lot of the 3rd parties such as Ryu and Cloud being cut if they wait and make a Smash 5. I just don't know.

Ughhhh! I'm so torn.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Now, Dark Fists is something that is unbalanced XD

Compared to the completely terrible Dark Dive that kills at like 160% or more, Dark Fists kills at like 60% and also has Super Armor (improving Ganondorf's recovery).

It probably would've been a different story if Dark Dive's knockback scaling was better. Of course, Dark Dive would still KO later than Dark Fists, but having better knockback scaling would at least enable Dark Dive to be much more efficient at making KOs near stage ledges.

Below is basically my own example of improving Dark Dive...

Dark Dive Grab
Damage: 2x4

Dark Dive Throw
Damage: 12
Angle: Sakurai angle
Base Knockback: 64
Knockback Growth: 80

KOs Mario on an Omega Form stage's center at around 140%.

I also altered Dark Vault to be less pathetic with its KO potential, but it does still KO later than Dark Dive, despite having a more strict grab window.

Dark Vault Grab
Damage: 2

Dark Vault Throw
Damage: 8
Angle: 40
Base Knockback: 64
Knockback Growth: 80

KOs Mario on an Omega Form stage's center at around 198%.

 

[DarkShadow20]

As we get closer and closer to E3, and I watch prediction videos all over YouTube, I am left on the fence on whether or not we will see Smash at E3.

At first I was certain we'd be seeing it. Not a doubt in my mind. However, we already have a lot of major titles slated for a 2017 release date. Super Mario Odyssey, ARMS, Splatoon 2, Fire Emblem Warriors, Fire Emblem, Kirby (although it's for 3DS) That Mario x Rabbids Battle Kingdom game, and we already got Zelda. It just seems like they wouldn't want to burn through all of their major franchises in one year.

I don't know. I'm starting to get worried. I really want to see Smash for Switch at E3. I hope it's a port that seconds as a platformer where over the course of several months we see new characters, stages, items, what have you added into the game to make it the definitive Smash Bros game for the Switch. I just can't see them waiting too long to announce it in the Switch lifespan. And with Smash 4 having such a incredible roster, and the possibility of having a lot of the 3rd parties such as Ryu and Cloud being cut if they wait and make a Smash 5. I just don't know.

Ughhhh! I'm so torn.

Didn't the leak for the rabbids game also say there would be a port of Ssb Wii U/3ds? Would make sense to go ahead and release the ssb and Mario Kart ports early on and then release new games later.

 

[Zem-raj]

Didn't the leak for the rabbids game also say there would be a port of Ssb Wii U/3ds? Would make sense to go ahead and release the ssb and Mario Kart ports early on and then release new games later.

If it's the same one I'm thinking of, it also said Splatoon would be a port. Yet it's not, it's a sequel.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

If it's the same one I'm thinking of, it also said Splatoon would be a port. Yet it's not, it's a sequel.

Yes, exactly. Though I can see where someone on the inside may have simply mistaken the sequel for a port if other Wii U games where ports as well.

Just the more I think about it the more I think we may not be seeing Smash at E3. Nintendo is only talking about release in 2017. Though they could mean a fiscal year, but that's unlikely.

I loved Super Smash Bros for Wii U/3DS. To me, it's the best game from a content standpoint. The roster was amazing. The stages were innovative, and meticulously designed, and there is such a since of nostalgia with the 3rd Party characters. We have Mega Man, Ryu, Pacman, Cloud, etc, and I know licensing to have them return may be difficult to acquire a second time. I really want the Smash for Switch to be a deluxe combined port, with new content, and occasional updates to roster and stages. Could you imagine how amazing that would be. A "new" Smash with no cuts, only more content over time.

I guess we will just have to wait and see. I'm just saying I'm worried now.

 

[DarkShadow20]

If it's the same one I'm thinking of, it also said Splatoon would be a port. Yet it's not, it's a sequel.

True, but they could have just mistook it for a port. There's no way anyone could have guessed the rabbid game, so we know the leaker at least had some true info.

 

[Kirbeh]

Yes, exactly. Though I can see where someone on the inside may have simply mistaken the sequel for a port if other Wii U games where ports as well.

Just the more I think about it the more I think we may not be seeing Smash at E3. Nintendo is only talking about release in 2017. Though they could mean a fiscal year, but that's unlikely.

I loved Super Smash Bros for Wii U/3DS. To me, it's the best game from a content standpoint. The roster was amazing. The stages were innovative, and meticulously designed, and there is such a since of nostalgia with the 3rd Party characters. We have Mega Man, Ryu, Pacman, Cloud, etc, and I know licensing to have them return may be difficult to acquire a second time. I really want the Smash for Switch to be a deluxe combined port, with new content, and occasional updates to roster and stages. Could you imagine how amazing that would be. A "new" Smash with no cuts, only more content over time.

I guess we will just have to wait and see. I'm just saying I'm worried now.

Why are you worried exactly?

If the port doesn't happen then we'll just keep enjoying the 3DS/Wii U versions, and when the time comes we'll eventually get a proper sequel. Sure there'd likely be a lot of content that doesn't make it to the next installment, but that's always been the case, not just for Smash but most fighting games in general.

It'd be nice if they ported it over and turned it into a platform, but if that doesn't happen we'll just wait for the next game like usual.

 

[Zem-raj]

True, but they could have just mistook it for a port.

Isn't it possible that the same could be said for Smash 6? Maybe it's a Splatoon 2 situation? We've got nothing to go on right now, other than what leakers have said.

There's no way anyone could have guessed the rabbid game, so we know the leaker at least had some true info.

It's very likely that the source of the Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle game is not the same source who listed the rest of the games found in the leak. They're likely an insider from Ubisoft, possibly someone who worked on the game, or work on the promotional work (as seen by the leaked images of promotional materials), so they're pretty legitimate.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Removing Customs is fine yet in some cases the Custom Moves really add to the character, especially the clones. Yet, with just that little more effort, the clones could've easily gotten far more unique moves, at least Specials. There's a lot of characters who's Custom Moves has given me a lot of what I asked for in regard of moveset changes. Ganondorf for example, using either his magic or sword for B is genius and what I asked for. I wanted a fire ball projectile for Bowser, I wanted Ike's sword projectile utilised, and quite some more stuff. I liked the idea of Custom Moves, and even equipment and stats but Smash 4's system is way unbalanced.

 

[DarkShadow20]

Isn't it possible that the same could be said for Smash 6? Maybe it's a Splatoon 2 situation? We've got nothing to go on right now, other than what leakers have said.


It's very likely that the source of the Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle game is not the same source who listed the rest of the games found in the leak. They're likely an insider from Ubisoft, possibly someone who worked on the game, or work on the promotional work (as seen by the leaked images of promotional materials), so they're pretty legitimate.

That's true. Hopefully we will see at E3 in two weeks.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Why are you worried exactly?

If the port doesn't happen then we'll just keep enjoying the 3DS/Wii U versions, and when the time comes we'll eventually get a proper sequel. Sure there'd likely be a lot of content that doesn't make it to the next installment, but that's always been the case, not just for Smash but most fighting games in general.

It'd be nice if they ported it over and turned it into a platform, but if that doesn't happen we'll just wait for the next game like usual.

I'm worried for selfish reasons. I've grown attached to the current roster, and would hate to see anyone go in the next installment.

I'm mostly just being silly. We'll see when E3 comes around in two weeks. Worst case scenario: Smash isn't announced for the Switch. Best case scenario: A Smash 4 port is announced with its future as a platformer. Still good scenario: Smash 5 is announced.

 

[Kirbeh]

I'm worried for selfish reasons. I've grown attached to the current roster, and would hate to see anyone go in the next installment.

I'm mostly just being silly. We'll see when E3 comes around in two weeks. Worst case scenario: Smash isn't announced for the Switch. Best case scenario: A Smash 4 port is announced with its future as a platformer. Still good scenario: Smash 5 is announced.

That's perfectly understandable. I'm somewhat in the same camp as I dread cuts, which is made even worse by the fact that I actually like every character that's been in Smash so far.

If we do get a port, then I'm also hoping they turn it into a platform and continue to support it throughout the Switch's life, but if not then I'm still excited to see what the next game will bring.

 

[FunAtParties]

Played a lot of Smash Flash 2 today, Sandbag is pretty neat... Anyone down for that?

Seeing Bomberman, Isaac, Bandanna Dee, and Chibi Robo in Smash feels so right too, Tails isn't bad either, and I know it's crazy but if I'm being honest Luffy is fun as hell too. I know Luffy doesn't have a chance in hell, but I'd love to see any of those other characters in Smash. Also, I really like how Mega Man is in SSF2. This game is fun.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Played a lot of Smash Flash 2 today, Sandbag is pretty neat... Anyone down for that?

Seeing Bomberman, Isaac, Bandanna Dee, and Chibi Robo in Smash feels so right too, Tails isn't bad either, and I know it's crazy but if I'm being honest Luffy is fun as hell too. I know Luffy doesn't have a chance in hell, but I'd love to see any of those other characters in Smash. Also, I really like how Mega Man is in SSF2. This game is fun.

Downloading it as we speak.

Agreed, I'm really glad Bomberman, Isaac, Dee and Chibi-Robo got added to SSF2. I'd love to see them all in actual Smash.

 

[FunAtParties]

Downloading it as we speak.

Agreed, I'm really glad Bomberman, Isaac, Dee and Chibi-Robo got added to SSF2. I'd love to see them all in actual Smash.

Make sure you play Classic mode with a random character selected. That's how you unlock Sandbag. His moveset is kind of simple, but a lot of fun. Really great joke character.

And I'm serious when I say this, even if you're not into anime, give some of those characters a chance, it's not a real Smash game after all. Luffy is legit a perfect Smash Dhalism, and Ichigo has a sort of Cloud feel, haven't really figured out the others though, but I'm planning too.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't think a Smash sequel could be mistaken for a port, Smash has always changed up the art style so visually, the mistake wouldn't be mind unless Nintendo was lazy which Smash never was.

Also, don't remove custom moves imo. Instead, they should be more accessible as getting them is such a chore, especially as equipment and duplicates mean you've wasted your time. So much potential but ultimately rather squandered. Masterpieces are something I never liked and I always believed the game's data suffered from added masterpieces as you pretty much have to put the entire game in there and add a time limit

 

[Curious Villager]

I wouldn't mind if some customs where made as defaults for some characters, Palutena being the most notable example, but I'd like to see Toon Link's moving Spin attack be worked into his default moveset. Perhaps keep the old spin when he's airborne but be able to do the moving spin when he's on land and has his spin attack fully charged and maybe give us the option to control its movement too.

I'm happy that his signature hurricane spin is sort of in the game, but I think that it should really be implemented as part of his default moveset, especially if custom moves don't return.