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Smash Switch Character Select Screen

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Zinith, May 15, 2018.

  1. Zinith

    Zinith
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    How do you think it will be organized this time around?

    Sm4sh was organized by release date of series, except that there were inconsistencies, such as Duck Hunt dog being after Fire Emblem and Captain Falcon being near the bottom despite originating in 1990. Yeeeeeeaah, needless to say most people didn't like it.

    Everyone praises Brawl's method, where they have the main stars of the series on top and the minor characters below them. I think that's the way it should go personally as well, however I have a slight caveat for that.....

    Mario, DK, Yoshi, Link, Samus, Kirby, Fox and Pikachu should be the first 8 characters listed. I think that's self-explanatory.
     
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  2. osby

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    I like Brawl's as well, but I think it was more interesting to see which characters were grouped with who. Olimar and Pikmin with Kirby characters since they're all little aliens, Mother and Fire Emblem together as RPGs, Mr. Game & Watch with other characters from other dimensions (guests) etc.

    Smash For uses rows instead of columns since there are too many characters and I don't think who placed in where really isn't that big of a deal anymore. I mean, as long as characters from the same series are together.
     
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  3. SwagGuy99

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    With Luigi, Diddy, (Yoshi/Wario Rep), ZSS, Meta Knight, Falco and Jiggs below them.
     
  4. YoshiandToad

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    Swap Yoshi and DK's placement and I really like that method, just because having Yoshi and Wario separate from the main Mario cast feels a little odd.
     
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  5. Super Flygon

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    Ideally, I'd want it to be like Smash Wii U, except with a perfect rectangle. Mainly, I just hope that all series will be grouped together, and that we'll get nothing like the Melee roster, where poor Ganondorf is not in a horizontal line with other Zelda characters. Also kind of irks me that the full Smash Wii U roster (including DLC) has Pac-Man separated from the other third party characters (and don't get me started on the clone and DLC sections.....).
     
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  6. Fuqua

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    didnt they intentionally group clone characters in smash 4? i think thats a terrible idea
     
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  7. Zinith

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    I would too. I was just taking into account DK's history...
     
  8. Wario Wario Wario

    Wario Wario Wario
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    I really hope 3rd Party characters aren't plopped at the end of the CSS again. Sonic and Pac deserve better.
     
    #8 Wario Wario Wario, May 16, 2018
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  9. Super Flygon

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    I could understand why they do that. Smash Bros. is a celebration of Nintendo, so it make sense to put the third party characters near the end. I just hope that they don't do what they did with Smash Wii U when all DLC is purchased, with Pac-Man separated from the other third party characters.
     
  10. MoonlitIllusion

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    I don't mind Smash 4's layout (except for the dumb clone corner), it's organized by series release date but series with multiple reps go first, then single rep franchises are stuck on the ends of the rows. I definitely prefer Brawl's look but smash 4's was fine.
     
  11. RineYFD

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    I think it should be organized by the most characters in each series.
    The roster with the highest number being represented above and the series with the lowest being at the bottom.
     
  12. Arcadenik

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    I like the way SSB4 roster were organized... except for the clones and DLC. The characters were grouped by series and in chronological order of their debuts.

    Mario characters
    :4mario: Donkey Kong (1981)
    :4luigi: Mario Bros. (1983)
    :4peach: Super Mario Bros. (1985)
    :4bowser: Super Mario Bros. (1985)
    :4drmario: Dr. Mario (1990)
    :4yoshi: Super Mario World (1991)
    :4wario: Super Mario Land 2: 6 Golden Coins (1992)
    :4bowserjr: Super Mario Sunshine (2002)
    :rosalina: Super Mario Galaxy (2007)

    Donkey Kong characters
    :4dk: Donkey Kong (1981)
    :4diddy: Donkey Kong Country (1994)

    Zelda characters (February 1986)
    :4link: The Legend of Zelda (1986)
    :4zelda: The Legend of Zelda (1986)
    :younglinkmelee: The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (1998)
    :4ganondorf: The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (1998)
    :4sheik: The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (1998)
    :4tlink: The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (2002)

    Metroid characters (August 1986)
    :4samus: Metroid (1986)
    :4zss: Metroid: Zero Mission (2004)

    Kid Icarus characters (December 1986)
    :4pit: Kid Icarus (1986)
    :4palutena: Kid Icarus (1986)
    :4darkpit: Kid Icarus Uprising (2012)

    EarthBound characters (first game came out on July 1989)
    :4ness: EarthBound (1994)
    :4lucas: Mother 3 (2006)

    Fire Emblem characters
    :4marth: Fire Emblem (1990)
    :4feroy: Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade (2002)
    :4myfriends: Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance (2005)
    :4robinm: Fire Emblem Awakening (2012)
    :4lucina: Fire Emblem Awakening (2012)
    :4corrin: Fire Emblem Fates (2015)

    Kirby characters
    :4kirby: Kirby's Dream Land (1992)
    :4dedede: Kirby's Dream Land (1992)
    :4metaknight: Kirby's Adventure (1993)

    Star Fox characters
    :4fox: Star Fox (1993)
    :4falco: Star Fox (1993)
    :wolf: Star Fox 64 (1997)


    Pokémon characters (Pokémon games came out in 1996; Pokémon ordered by National Pokédex)
    :ivysaur: #002
    :4charizard: #006
    :squirtle: #007
    :4pikachu: #025
    :4jigglypuff: #039
    :4mewtwo: #150
    :pichumelee: #172
    :4lucario: #448
    :4greninja: #658

    Nintendo characters (franchises with only one character)
    :4gaw: Game & Watch (1980)
    :4littlemac: Punch-Out!! (February 1984)
    :4duckhunt: Duck Hunt (April 1984)
    :popo: Ice Climber (January 1985)
    :4rob: Stack-Up (July 1985)
    :4falcon: F-Zero (1990)
    :4villager: Animal Crossing (April 2001)
    :4olimar: Pikmin (October 2001)
    :4wiifit: Wii Fit (2007)
    :4shulk: Xenoblade Chronicles (2010)

    Mii Fighters
    :4miibrawl:
    :4miisword: (sword fighting were invented after martial arts were invented)
    :4miigun: (guns were invented after swords were invented)

    Third-party characters
    :4pacman: Pac-Man (1980)
    :snake: Metal Gear (July 1987)
    :4ryu: Street Fighter (August 1987)
    :4megaman: Mega Man (December 1987)
    :4sonic: Sonic the Hedgehog (1991)
    :4cloud: Final Fantasy VII (1997)
    :4bayonetta: Bayonetta (2009)

    So I hope SSB5 roster will be organized like that.
     
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  13. osby

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    They still need to adjust it to the rows with newcomers and (if any) cuts but this looks really cool.
     
  14. Connery

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    Based on Smash seniority!

    Original 8
    The 4 unlockables
    Melee newcomers sorted by priority
    Brawl newcomers sorted by reveal order
    Smash 4 newcomers sorted by reveal order

    It would be a mess for most but I like it.
     
    #14 Connery, May 16, 2018
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  15. jwillenn

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    I'm still thinking about a concept for the character tiles (selection area), though I'm thinking keep that as is with maybe some slight visual effect changes. An idea of mine I LOVE is gameplay clips to represent highlighted/selected characters instead of the typical portrait. Smash is in the perfect position to make use of this touch. It's very appropriate as the "Celebrator of Nintendo History" that Smash is.

    [​IMG]

    To better imagine this, you have to replace the images with the animated gifs they came from.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]


    You also should imagine that there's a LOT of gameplay footage for each character (maybe hours worth) but it loops maybe only 15 seconds worth of random footage per character each time the select screen is entered. The point is to often surprise players with fresh gameplay footage. From left to right, Mario, Inkling, Bayonetta, and Pac-Man are being highlighted (triggers their video), and then selected.


    I'm still thinking about audio for this. There could be options, but right now I'm liking the thought of "sound effects only" (kicks in upon selecting, not merely highlighting) from gameplay video with character selection bgm.

    As far as ordering goes, I'm not too concerned about that. I guess if they wanted to keep them grouped but order them according to when the franchise was born (maybe even display year and system of birth off to the side when a character is highlighted), that could be nice.
     
    #15 jwillenn, May 16, 2018
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  16. Zinith

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    I like the idea, although it may confuse players if this is the default setting. Maybe have it optional...
     
  17. jwillenn

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    I'm definitely cool with this being an optional setting, though I don't see where players get confused here.
     
  18. Zinith

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    It may be a small detail, but character presentation matters more than you think it would. Seeing the character you select close and personal gets you familiarized with him/her before you try him/her out. And maybe once you have the character set, you can use your optional setting to see what his/her game is like...
     
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  19. SwagGuy99

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    They should start by doing Brawl's Series by years in the top row starting with Smash 64 veterans followed by Marth and Sonic on the right end of the row. The only change would be putting Yoshi next to Mario even though he came out in '90. All rows go something like this: Mario's row will have Mario veterans in order of their Smash Bros. debut and then by order of their original debut with clones being put right below to their original counterparts no matter their debut. (i.e. Mario, Dr. Mario Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Bowser Jr., Rosalina, new Mario character.) Other rows will have the main series followed by later series in order of their original debut. (Yoshi, Capt. Falcon, Ness before Wario, etc.) Yoshi's Row would have Yoshi and Wario characters followed by any other character that debuted on the SNES (Capt. Falcon, Ness). DK's row will have DK characters. Links row has Zelda characters. Samus's has NES characters and G&W. Kirby has Kirby and Pikman. Fox's row has Star Fox and Animal Crossing. Pikachu's row has Pokemon. Marth's row has Fire Embem. Sonic's row has Shulk and third parties.
     
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  20. jwillenn

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    I definitely see what you mean, but I'm not sure about how much further a static image could go to have that kind of impact compared with effective video clip choices (not saying that mine were the best choices). I can see a player thinking more of Mario as a badass from his Smash 4 portrait than that clip I chose, but that was really just for example. Video choice couldn't be as random as my choices were. Either way, I 100% agree with you about there being options.
     
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  21. jwillenn

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    See, reading Swagguy's post and talking with zinith just gave me an idea about ordering because we both mentioned "years" but under different contexts. I apologize if someone else mentioned this idea, but imagine Ordering Options! Now THAT covers all the bases for ordering! :D
    Alphabetical (Character Name)
    Alphabetical (Series Name)
    Chronological (Smash Debut)
    Chronological (Series Debut)
    Popularity (Online)
    Win Rates (Ranked Mode)
    Greatest Opponents (character you lose to most)
    Custom Ordering (reposition character tiles, save to your profile)
    on and on and on...
     
    #21 jwillenn, May 16, 2018
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
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  22. Zinith

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    I have a confession to make. I created this thread to seemingly create speculation about a major feature of Smash, but in reality it was a way for me to subtly rant about something I've been meaning to get off my chest for a decade now.

    You know how I said I wanted the Original 8 to be on the top row? Well if you look at Brawl's character select screen that's pretty much the case.............. except for Yoshi.

    Now I know what you're thinking, "Oh, it's fine the way it is. You're just being a salty Yoshi fanatic." Actually no. I have my perfectly logical and unbiased reasons for why I'm mad at that treatment specifically. It's just the fact that it's Yoshi is what caught my attention. If it were any other OG 8 character, I'm pretty sure fans of that character would notice.

    To me, the Original 8 aren't just the "first starter characters from the first Smash Bros." They represent normalcy for the series, the models the rest of the cast is compared to (and yes that includes Luigi, Captain Falcon, Ness and Jigglypuff). When a new Smash comes around, these 8 should get first priority while the rest follow suit. So when you establish a pattern regarding these characters (like oh you know, BRAWL'S CHAR SELECT SCREEN!!!) and you specifically leave one of them out, to me that doesn't imply "Oh, he's just like the rest of the cast" it says "I have little respect for this character's history with this franchise." And no, being a side character for another series (Mario in this case) is not a justification.

    And don't get me wrong, it's not just the fact that it's Yoshi. Imagine if it were Fox. I have little interest for Fox or the Star Fox series, but if Sakurai were to give him the same treatment Yoshi got in Brawl (which is a likely possibility considering the waning relevancy of the Star Fox games), I would be just as livid as I am now.

    *sigh* Okay I'm done. Continue
     
  23. Khao

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    Not the only time it happened either, Yoshi was the only one of the original 8 who was nowhere to be seen when Sm4sh was announced. All other original 8 characters were introduced with the logo of their respective franchise when the trailer started up, but it seems as if Pit and Kid Icarus took Yoshi's place in the trailer's intro.

    Still, I don't think it's quite the same as doing it with someone like Fox. Star Fox has an entirely different identity, unique from all other series in Smash Bros, so I think it's exclusion would be felt a lot more. The Yoshi series, ultimately, is an extension to the Mario universe (Heck, the series classification gets kinda confusing once you realize that the 'Yoshi's Island' stage, listed as being from the Yoshi series, is in fact from Super Mario World). I'd argue that his placement on the Brawl CSS is because that's a "Mario spi-off" row of sorts, and DK was simply given a higher priority.

    Even then, I agree. Yoshi is an iconic character that's been in Smash from the start. It's weird to see him excluded of something that has all the other mainstay characters. I never noticed the Brawl CSS thing, but the Sm4sh trailer thing was a bit weird. Would've made more sense to use Yoshi instead of Kid Icarus there.
     
    #23 Khao, May 17, 2018
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
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  24. Zinith

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    Yeah I was mad at the time, but once he was revealed I understood why that was the case. Of all the 8, Yoshi was the one that was reworked the most. Could've at least had a cg trailer though...

    And I would argue Yoshi does have an identity outside of Mario, just not as pronounced as say DK. And I was only using Fox as an example because out of all the 8, his series is the most in dire straits with maybe the close exception of Metroid.
     
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  25. MoonlitIllusion

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    Yoshi is classified the same way as Wario is, as a mario spinoff, hence why they were on the same row after DK in brawl, having Yoshi on his own row would kind of disrupt the whole thing, what do you put below yoshi if you give him his own row?
     
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  26. SwagGuy99

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    Its strange I agree. Most of the Brawl veterans, 64 starters, Luigi, E3 newcomers and a couple Melee veterans were all announced before Yoshi was. While I think he does have the least priority out of the original 8 (being a spin off of a more popular series) I would have though he would have been announced around the same time as Luigi, Peach or even Rosalina.
     
    #26 SwagGuy99, May 18, 2018
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
  27. Zinith

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    *sigh* What a tedious thing to respond to. Yes, the Yoshi and Wario series are technically Mario spin-offs, but that's selling both of them short. It's not like Luigi's Mansion or Captain Toad which are as "Mario spin-off" as they can get. Yoshi and Wario both have their own game feel, aesthetic and direction separate from Mario. You say Yoshi should be below DK on the column? Well I could just as easily say Yoshi and Wario should switch places with DK and Diddy because the characters whose series most closely represents Mario should take priority to the one that is less related. After all they are "Mario" spin-off characters, not DK ones.

    As for what I would put below Yoshi, I'm assuming you mean how I would fix BRAWL'S CSS, because Smash Switch CSS would depend on a number of factors. But I would arrange it this way:

    :mario2: :yoshi2: :dk2: :link2: :samus2: :kirby2: :fox: :pikachu2: :gw:
    :luigi2: :wario: :diddy: :zelda: :marth: :dedede: :falco: :pt: :snake:
    :peach: :popo: :ness2: :ganondorf: :ike: :metaknight: :wolf: :lucario: :sonic:
    :bowser2: :pit: :lucas: :toonlink: :rob: :olimar: :falcon: :jigglypuff:

    Here's my reasoning. Original 8 are on top row. No ifs, ands, buts or "muh spin-offs." Just as long as the Mario spin-off characters are in the general vicinity of each other, they do not I repeat DO NOT have to be in the same column (hence why Yoshi is second and DK is third. If one of them can be detached from Mario, it's DK).

    I am fine with Mr. Game & Watch being on top of the "weird" column because none of this "Nintendo" we talk about wouldn't have been doing what they do without those quirky handhelds.

    This would mean that the Fire Emblem/Mother column would be cannibalized (Marth should've never been on top anyways, especially at the time). Now I could've put those series right below Wario and Diddy and called it a day, but I'm not satisfied with that. So what I did was take another two characters with whom I was irritated by their placement (Ice Climbers and Pit. They don't exactly fit the tone of Metroid) and put them below Wario. Not only are they from series around the time Super Mario Bros. was popular, but their tone fits with it too. I'd put the Mother characters below DK because tone once again. And finally put Marth and Ike below Samus because tone thrice.

    And that's how I'd do it
     
  28. MoonlitIllusion

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    I mean I suppose that still works but putting the mother characters under the DK characters just seems strange to me, pit next to samus was done for a reason, they're known as "sibling games" as they were developed alongside one another and reference one another. I assume Fire Emblem and mother were put together as they're nintendo's RPG series.

    Yours isn't necessarily bad but Brawl's was the way it was for a reason and I personally prefer it.
     
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  29. Zinith

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    Please elaborate on why it's strange for mother to be below DK, cause I don't see it. Metroid developed an identity that is FAR removed from the tone that Kid Icarus represents, Fire Emblem fits better. As far as Fire Emblem and Mother is concerned, that's only an assumption. Being "RPGs" is the only relation they have, and they're not even in the same sub-genre.
     
  30. MoonlitIllusion

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    It just looks strange to me, having mother before the likes of Zelda and metroid even if it's lower down feels off. Regardless, to me at least Brawl's roster makes perfect sense, You got Mario, Mario spin-offs, Zelda, NES era characters, Kirby and pikmin just fit, Star Fox and F-Zero just fit, Pokemon, RPGs/just 2 2 rep series ,and then 3rd parties plus game and watch cause there's no where else to put him. "Muh spin-offs" is just as valid as "muh original 8" I really don't see the need to give Yoshi his own row, especially after Smash 4 where he was already replaced by Kid Icarus in the reveal trailer.
     
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  31. Zinith

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    Ok, let me put it this way. If Mario were to disappear from the face of the earth overnight, then Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Toad, Toadette, Waluigi, Daisy, Birdo, Bowser Jr., the Koopalings and many others would disappear with him. But Yoshi, Wario and DK would live on because they have stable franchises they can fall back on. If that weren't the case for Yoshi, then Sakurai wouldn't have included him in the original Smash 64 in the first place (he would at most be an unlockable similar to Luigi). Hell, he could even take some of the enemies like Shy Guys, Magikoopas and Chain Chomps with him. And he's long overdue for a new villain anyways so Baby Bowser not being around won't stop him. Seriously, stop trying to short sell Yoshi. It gets old.

    And I have said this a million times, but his exclusion from the Smash 4 reveal trailer doesn't mean he's been displaced from the OG 8 (it also seems to me all the other OG 8 are accounted for in this new Smash Switch trailer so there). The reason he was absent was because he specifically needed to be reworked in between games, which imo is the best thing that's ever happened to the green dinosaur. And people think he's been replaced by Pit? ***** please!!! Even if Yoshi's Island never existed Pit wouldn't have 1/20th of the gaming influence Yoshi has. No amount of Sakurai bias is gonna change that
     
  32. Duplighost

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    I don't think he's trying to sell Yoshi short, but he's thinking of Yoshi more or less as an extention of the Mario universe I'd say. As you pointed out, Yoshi has his own identity—but then again, he did debut in Super Mario World as Mario's sidekick, which is one of the reasons that someone would consider him a "Mario character." Yoshi does in fact have his own identity, but he is always closely associated with the Mario world. In Mario games, he is generally depicted as a subordinate part, whereas a character like Pit is always depicted as the main character. With that thinking, it'd make sense why someone would not put Yoshi at the top with a character like Pit below him.

    Nonetheless your argument still stands, and I actually agree with giving Yoshi his own column (in regards to your revised CSS posted earlier). I was just defending the perspective of the other side since his opinion is definitely justifiable.
     
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  33. Zinith

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    I also want to say this: "Yoshi represents Yoshi first and represents Mario second" is not a precedent I established, it was Sakurai's in the first game (in fact, the CSS for the 8 are ordered in appearance. Mario, Donkey Kong (1981), Link (February 1986), Samus (August 1986), Yoshi (1990), Kirby (1992), Fox (1993) and Pikachu (1996)). Him reneging on that precedent rubs me the wrong way
     
  34. Duplighost

    Duplighost
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    Smash Ace

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2015
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    603
    Location:
    Creepy Steeple
    3DS FC:
    3239-5360-8490
    Fair enough. It’s only natural that it would bother you, considering how much you know about Yoshi and how much you love the character. Yoshi’s always been one of my favorite characters too (my absolute favorite as a child), so knowing that he isn’t getting the recognition he deserves is frustrating.

    I acknowledge Sakurai’s thinking, though. It might be confusing for a lot of people—younger people who aren’t aware of Yoshi’s origin, particularly—who have always thought of Yoshi as a Mario character to see him represented as his own. In that case, Sakurai may have wanted to clear up the ambiguity for the younger audience, since that’s Nintendo’s primary group of customers anyway.
     
    osby likes this.
  35. Zinith

    Zinith
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    Smash Apprentice

    Joined:
    May 13, 2018
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    OK, I think I may have swayed my own thread off-topic too much. Back to CSS speculation!!!
     

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